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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2020 16:28:23 GMT
Yes. That's also exhibit A as to the prevalence of transphobia in the general public. Why is it the belief that because a very small section of people could *possibly* do harm, that we should then revoke basic rights of others? It'd be like banning coats for everyone because people can easily hide a gun under them. Or banning the internet because some people might use it maliciously. Nobody has “revoked” any such rights. Whether you like it, or agree with it or not, people who have a cock have never had a “right” to enter a women’s toilet area, changing room or other such area. End of. Nothing has been “revoked”. You are making yourself look a bit of a cock on this one Lil. It hasn't been revoked, you're right. Trans people have never had the same rights as those who aren't trans. 'Having a cock' is not, biologically, socially, or on any technicality, a definition of gender or sex.
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Post by yeokel on Feb 12, 2020 17:25:52 GMT
Nobody has “revoked” any such rights. Whether you like it, or agree with it or not, people who have a cock have never had a “right” to enter a women’s toilet area, changing room or other such area. End of. Nothing has been “revoked”. You are making yourself look a bit of a cock on this one Lil. It hasn't been revoked, you're right. Trans people have never had the same rights as those who aren't trans. 'Having a cock' is not, biologically, socially, or on any technicality, a definition of gender or sex. " Having a cock is not, biologically ................a definition of gender or sex" Are you sure about that? Genuine question as I don’t know the answer myself. I’m not going to Google it as I’m at work and don’t really want it on my search history, but gut instinct tells me that you are not correct.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2020 17:41:06 GMT
It hasn't been revoked, you're right. Trans people have never had the same rights as those who aren't trans. 'Having a cock' is not, biologically, socially, or on any technicality, a definition of gender or sex. " Having a cock is not, biologically ................a definition of gender or sex" Are you sure about that? Genuine question as I don’t know the answer myself. I’m not going to Google it as I’m at work and don’t really want it on my search history, but gut instinct tells me that you are not correct. Yes, absolutely. There are several indicators of sex and gender, far beyond just genitals and chromosomes. www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3268825/
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Feb 12, 2020 18:18:00 GMT
You mean Starmer the 'moderate'? Starter for 10. Who's were these campaign policies? Keir's or Jeremy's? 1. Increase income tax for the top 5% of earners. 2. Reverse Tories Corporation tax cuts. 3. Clampdown on large company tax avoidance. 4. Abolish Universal Credit. 5. Stand up for the NHS. 6. Abolish tuition fees. 7. A New Green Energy deal. 8. Introduce a Prevention of Military Action Act. 9. Nationalise rail, water, mail and energy. 10. Full voting rights for EU Nationals. 11. Close detention centres. 12. Defend freedom of movement. 13. Repeal the Trade Union Act. 12. Regional investment banks. 13. Abolish the House of Lords. And how many of these campaign policies have Labour members so up in arms that many are threatening to quit the party or challenging the party to expel them? "Members"? Not many. General Election Labour voters. Loads. If Keir wins the Leadership he'll pivot on most of this for the 2024 GE. He's a snake. What he REALLY believes isn't what will win enough votes in the Leadership campaign.
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Post by salopstick on Feb 12, 2020 18:39:32 GMT
It won't get the average working folk back to Labour. But the average folk don't seem to particularly believe in trans rights for some reason. I'm not a big fan of RLB, but why is she wrong in saying Labour should expel discriminatory members? Should she accept discrimination because the average working class folk will accept it too? There is a difference between discrimination and different views. It is against the law to discriminate. It is not yet against the law to have disgusting views against a certain section of people. You can think what you want. You break the law by discriminating or by using words or actions that fall under the various laws. It is not always transphobic to have a grown up discussion on wether biological men who identify as women but still have pensis can play women’s sport or use female toilets. Labours policy seems to tar everyone
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Feb 12, 2020 18:42:46 GMT
Boris as PM: HS2 decision, new legislation for terrorist early release, 5g decision, 5bn pledged for Northern transport, first ever cabinet meeting in Sunderland, BBC licence fee review, deportation of foreign criminals, strong but fair opening gambit with Brexit, campaign promise for a veteran railcard delivered......
Labour: Jeremy Corbyn is still Leader.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2020 18:42:47 GMT
It won't get the average working folk back to Labour. But the average folk don't seem to particularly believe in trans rights for some reason. I'm not a big fan of RLB, but why is she wrong in saying Labour should expel discriminatory members? Should she accept discrimination because the average working class folk will accept it too? There is a difference between discrimination and different views. It is against the law to discriminate. It is not yet against the law to have disgusting views against a certain section of people. You can think what you want. You break the law by discriminating or by using words or actions that fall under the various laws. It is not always transphobic to have a grown up discussion on wether biological men who identify as women but still have pensis can play women’s sport or use female toilets. Labours policy seems to tar everyone I don't think that is what RLB is alluding to tbf, although point taken. I think she is saying that the party should treat transphobic comments the same was as racism, sexism, or homophobia. Which traditionally has not been done. You can have the grown up discussion without being transphobic, but I think that the mainstream view in the UK is that trans people are not the gender they identify as, and that is very often expressed in a transphobic way.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2020 18:45:42 GMT
Boris as PM: HS2 decision, new legislation for terrorist early release, 5g decision, 5bn pledged for Northern transport, first ever cabinet meeting in Sunderland, BBC licence fee review, deportation of foreign criminals, strong but fair opening gambit with Brexit, campaign promise for a veteran railcard delivered...... Labour: Jeremy Corbyn is still Leader. In fairness, it is difficult for labour to do much when they're not the governing party. And when they're going through a leadership election.
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Post by salopstick on Feb 12, 2020 18:53:30 GMT
There is a difference between discrimination and different views. It is against the law to discriminate. It is not yet against the law to have disgusting views against a certain section of people. You can think what you want. You break the law by discriminating or by using words or actions that fall under the various laws. It is not always transphobic to have a grown up discussion on wether biological men who identify as women but still have pensis can play women’s sport or use female toilets. Labours policy seems to tar everyone I don't think that is what RLB is alluding to tbf, although point taken. I think she is saying that the party should treat transphobic comments the same was as racism, sexism, or homophobia. Which traditionally has not been done. You can have the grown up discussion without being transphobic, but I think that the mainstream view in the UK is that trans people are not the gender they identify as, and that is very often expressed in a transphobic way. You miss the point because you don’t believe that women have the right to deny someone with a penis access to female safe spaces. I believe there is a discussion to be had. I also believe it is not transphobic to have that discussion.
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Post by salopstick on Feb 12, 2020 18:54:58 GMT
Boris as PM: HS2 decision, new legislation for terrorist early release, 5g decision, 5bn pledged for Northern transport, first ever cabinet meeting in Sunderland, BBC licence fee review, deportation of foreign criminals, strong but fair opening gambit with Brexit, campaign promise for a veteran railcard delivered...... Labour: Jeremy Corbyn is still Leader. In fairness, it is difficult for labour to do much when they're not the governing party. And when they're going through a leadership election. To be fair to jezza and his party they are still banging on about nasty northern brexiteers, still making Gaza as important as it is a priority and now trying to act as the thought police for the nation All in 6 weeks work
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2020 19:43:35 GMT
I don't think that is what RLB is alluding to tbf, although point taken. I think she is saying that the party should treat transphobic comments the same was as racism, sexism, or homophobia. Which traditionally has not been done. You can have the grown up discussion without being transphobic, but I think that the mainstream view in the UK is that trans people are not the gender they identify as, and that is very often expressed in a transphobic way. You miss the point because you don’t believe that women have the right to deny someone with a penis access to female safe spaces. I believe there is a discussion to be had. I also believe it is not transphobic to have that discussion. I think there is certainly a discussion, but when the discussion amounts to 'if you have a cock you're not a woman', then that is transphobic.
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Post by followyoudown on Feb 12, 2020 19:46:19 GMT
There is a difference between discrimination and different views. It is against the law to discriminate. It is not yet against the law to have disgusting views against a certain section of people. You can think what you want. You break the law by discriminating or by using words or actions that fall under the various laws. It is not always transphobic to have a grown up discussion on wether biological men who identify as women but still have pensis can play women’s sport or use female toilets. Labours policy seems to tar everyone I don't think that is what RLB is alluding to tbf, although point taken. I think she is saying that the party should treat transphobic comments the same was as racism, sexism, or homophobia. Which traditionally has not been done. You can have the grown up discussion without being transphobic, but I think that the mainstream view in the UK is that trans people are not the gender they identify as, and that is very often expressed in a transphobic way. Well if they treat transphobic comments the same way as racism then trans people are fucked or do you mean racism except anti semitism. You know what I find strange its always trans woman who seem to have problems, trans man barely get mentioned and they doesn't seem to be at war with men who dont have a vagina, its almost like alot of the trans activists are really just women haters in dresses with cocks.
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Post by followyoudown on Feb 12, 2020 19:46:41 GMT
There is a difference between discrimination and different views. It is against the law to discriminate. It is not yet against the law to have disgusting views against a certain section of people. You can think what you want. You break the law by discriminating or by using words or actions that fall under the various laws. It is not always transphobic to have a grown up discussion on wether biological men who identify as women but still have pensis can play women’s sport or use female toilets. Labours policy seems to tar everyone I don't think that is what RLB is alluding to tbf, although point taken. I think she is saying that the party should treat transphobic comments the same was as racism, sexism, or homophobia. Which traditionally has not been done. You can have the grown up discussion without being transphobic, but I think that the mainstream view in the UK is that trans people are not the gender they identify as, and that is very often expressed in a transphobic way.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2020 19:51:54 GMT
I don't think that is what RLB is alluding to tbf, although point taken. I think she is saying that the party should treat transphobic comments the same was as racism, sexism, or homophobia. Which traditionally has not been done. You can have the grown up discussion without being transphobic, but I think that the mainstream view in the UK is that trans people are not the gender they identify as, and that is very often expressed in a transphobic way. Well if they treat transphobic comments the same way as racism then trans people are fucked or do you mean racism except anti semitism. You know what I find strange its always trans woman who seem to have problems, trans man barely get mentioned and they doesn't seem to be at war with men who dont have a vagina, its almost like alot of the trans activists are really just women haters in dresses with cocks.My case is closed.
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Post by salopstick on Feb 12, 2020 19:55:34 GMT
You miss the point because you don’t believe that women have the right to deny someone with a penis access to female safe spaces. I believe there is a discussion to be had. I also believe it is not transphobic to have that discussion. I think there is certainly a discussion, but when the discussion amounts to 'if you have a cock you're not a woman', then that is transphobic. That’s not the case. But anyone can not just come out and say I identify as a woman and expect 100% equality with a woman That’s the problem with equal rights. None of us are equal. Why should a trans woman with a cock be able to sue a beautician because they refuse to shave the bollocks. And for the record if you have a cock you are not automatically a woman because that’s what you say you are
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Post by crapslinger on Feb 12, 2020 20:43:10 GMT
You miss the point because you don’t believe that women have the right to deny someone with a penis access to female safe spaces. I believe there is a discussion to be had. I also believe it is not transphobic to have that discussion. I think there is certainly a discussion, but when the discussion amounts to 'if you have a cock you're not a woman', then that is transphobic.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2020 20:57:27 GMT
I think there is certainly a discussion, but when the discussion amounts to 'if you have a cock you're not a woman', then that is transphobic. That’s not the case. But anyone can not just come out and say I identify as a woman and expect 100% equality with a woman
That’s the problem with equal rights. None of us are equal. Why should a trans woman with a cock be able to sue a beautician because they refuse to shave the bollocks. And for the record if you have a cock you are not automatically a woman because that’s what you say you are Everyone should be 100% equal to everyone.
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Post by salopstick on Feb 12, 2020 21:07:51 GMT
That’s not the case. But anyone can not just come out and say I identify as a woman and expect 100% equality with a woman
That’s the problem with equal rights. None of us are equal. Why should a trans woman with a cock be able to sue a beautician because they refuse to shave the bollocks. And for the record if you have a cock you are not automatically a woman because that’s what you say you are Everyone should be 100% equal to everyone. Absolute bollocks You can’t be pregnant because you are a man. It is sometimes right to sometimes discriminate for and against a pregnant woman We should strive to be as equal as we can be as much time as we can but we will never have 100% equality The problem with some people you included in this. They demand this 100% equality without thinking it through and get all upset when it doesn’t happen. This is prevalent in the trans community People cannot be 100% equal 100% of the time there are too many differences
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Post by crapslinger on Feb 12, 2020 21:20:12 GMT
Well if they treat transphobic comments the same way as racism then trans people are fucked or do you mean racism except anti semitism. You know what I find strange its always trans woman who seem to have problems, trans man barely get mentioned and they doesn't seem to be at war with men who dont have a vagina, its almost like alot of the trans activists are really just women haters in dresses with cocks.My case is closed. Along with your eyes
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Feb 12, 2020 21:20:31 GMT
Transexuality and transphobia are not mainstream political issues. Most people, including the working class will recognise that most people accept that most of us are either male or female, no real discussion necessary....therefore the idea that this acceptance of difference and equality should result in/ justify a complete change of behaviour, beliefs and practices that have the potential to allow males enter female toilets as of right is a non starter...and the possible consequences for women or children....their protection is a higher priority, as Salop implies/ states.
No one should be unfairly discriminated against....but Labour have managed again to bark completely up the wrong tree with expertise. The Tories must be laughing their socks off.
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Post by RichieBarkerOut! on Feb 12, 2020 21:22:44 GMT
Well if they treat transphobic comments the same way as racism then trans people are fucked or do you mean racism except anti semitism. You know what I find strange its always trans woman who seem to have problems, trans man barely get mentioned and they doesn't seem to be at war with men who dont have a vagina, its almost like alot of the trans activists are really just women haters in dresses with cocks.My case is closed. Your case was closed when you said it would be fine for me to enter a female only space as long as I identified as a woman first.
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Post by crapslinger on Feb 12, 2020 21:31:47 GMT
That’s not the case. But anyone can not just come out and say I identify as a woman and expect 100% equality with a woman
That’s the problem with equal rights. None of us are equal. Why should a trans woman with a cock be able to sue a beautician because they refuse to shave the bollocks. And for the record if you have a cock you are not automatically a woman because that’s what you say you are Everyone should be 100% equal to everyone. how old are you.
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Post by crapslinger on Feb 12, 2020 21:33:46 GMT
Your case was closed when you said it would be fine for me to enter a female only space as long as I identified as a woman first. Would that be ok if you were standing there with your tackle hanging out when you were identifying as a woman
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2020 22:08:58 GMT
Everyone should be 100% equal to everyone. Absolute bollocks You can’t be pregnant because you are a man. It is sometimes right to sometimes discriminate for and against a pregnant woman We should strive to be as equal as we can be as much time as we can but we will never have 100% equality The problem with some people you included in this. They demand this 100% equality without thinking it through and get all upset when it doesn’t happen. This is prevalent in the trans community People cannot be 100% equal 100% of the time there are too many differences Absolutely. but the limit is not to ignore trans people's rights.
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Post by salopstick on Feb 12, 2020 22:11:42 GMT
Absolute bollocks You can’t be pregnant because you are a man. It is sometimes right to sometimes discriminate for and against a pregnant woman We should strive to be as equal as we can be as much time as we can but we will never have 100% equality The problem with some people you included in this. They demand this 100% equality without thinking it through and get all upset when it doesn’t happen. This is prevalent in the trans community People cannot be 100% equal 100% of the time there are too many differences Absolutely. but the limit is not to ignore trans people's rights. No one is ignoring their rights. The Labour Party is threatening to expel anyone who questions every right labelling them transphobic It is non transphobic to have a discussion on when how etc these “rights” are worked out. No one can claim a right to everything by right
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Post by crapslinger on Feb 12, 2020 22:14:02 GMT
Absolute bollocks You can’t be pregnant because you are a man. It is sometimes right to sometimes discriminate for and against a pregnant woman We should strive to be as equal as we can be as much time as we can but we will never have 100% equality The problem with some people you included in this. They demand this 100% equality without thinking it through and get all upset when it doesn’t happen. This is prevalent in the trans community People cannot be 100% equal 100% of the time there are too many differences Absolutely. but the limit is not to ignore trans people's rights. Are you trying to tell us something Lil is that why your dad called himself Mary and identified as a female on here thinking about it might go some way to explaining some of your mixed up views it must be difficult for you bless.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2020 22:15:11 GMT
Transexuality and transphobia are not mainstream political issues. Most people, including the working class will recognise that most people accept that most of us are either male or female, no real discussion necessary....therefore the idea that this acceptance of difference and equality should result in/ justify a complete change of behaviour, beliefs and practices that have the potential to allow males enter female toilets as of right is a non starter...and the possible consequences for women or children....their protection is a higher priority, as Salop implies/ states. No one should be unfairly discriminated against....but Labour have managed again to bark completely up the wrong tree with expertise. The Tories must be laughing their socks off. Okay, why would we let young boys into men's changing rooms then? Are they not at risk from gay people or gay paedophiles? Should we let lesbians into women's rooms? What if they attack other women? It doesn't sound like people don't care if they're giving the policy this much airtime. It sounds more like people disagree. I think the tories will laugh their socks off whatever happens tbh, I think the UK is just a far more socially right wing country than first thought. The issue Labour has is that there aren't enough younger left-wingers to win an election alone, and those younger left wingers are far less accepting of a 'middle' ground compared with 20 years ago.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2020 22:15:42 GMT
Absolutely. but the limit is not to ignore trans people's rights. No one is ignoring their rights. The Labour Party is threatening to expel anyone who questions every right labelling them transphobic It is non transphobic to have a discussion on when how etc these “rights” are worked out. No one can claim a right to everything by right No it isn't, but they're not saying they will expel people for discussion, simply those who hold discriminatory views.
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Post by salopstick on Feb 12, 2020 22:22:46 GMT
No one is ignoring their rights. The Labour Party is threatening to expel anyone who questions every right labelling them transphobic It is non transphobic to have a discussion on when how etc these “rights” are worked out. No one can claim a right to everything by right No it isn't, but they're not saying they will expel people for discussion, simply those who hold discriminatory views. Nope “Transphobic views” And that’s very subjective
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2020 22:24:36 GMT
No it isn't, but they're not saying they will expel people for discussion, simply those who hold discriminatory views. Nope “Transphobic views” And that’s very subjective To be fair 'racist views' and 'sexist views' are subjective too.
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