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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 7, 2019 22:32:37 GMT
I'm not totally against what you say but didn't Sparky create our best three top division finishes. I just think we dropped three enormous bollocks with wimmer, berahino and Imbula and then employed two toss managers... simples. I give zero fucks about 9th place finishes when the environment he created has put us on the brink of a return to the 3rd tier. The guy is a charlatan and a wanker. He’s not a charlatan. He did a very good job for a while until he lost the plot, just like his predecessor. The difference is the board waited too long to sack one and got rid of one at the right time.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2019 22:37:36 GMT
Play 4-2-3-1. That’s the formation the squad suits, it has done for as long as I can remember yet manager after manager refuses to play it. 4-2-3-1 with our players just slides into becoming 4-5-1 which leaves us right where we already are. It may be fine defensively if it's team effort to help each other out (and that team effort is then extended to combine our way forward) - though for some it just becomes an excuse to go into hiding - but when we supposedly go on counterattack the still single forward is just too far removed from the rest of the team, and our long balls forward to him are back against us seconds later.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 7, 2019 22:45:50 GMT
Play 4-2-3-1. That’s the formation the squad suits, it has done for as long as I can remember yet manager after manager refuses to play it. 4-2-3-1 with our players just slides into becoming 4-5-1 which leaves us right where we already are. It may be fine defensively if it's team effort to help each other out (and that team effort is then extended to combine our way forward) - though for some it just becomes an excuse to go into hiding - but when we supposedly go on counterattack the still single forward is just too far removed from the rest of the team, and our long balls forward to him are back against us seconds later. It depends who the number 10 is. If you set out to play 4-2-3-1 and play Powell or Duffy there then it doesn’t become 4-5-1 but you’ve got to have disciplined midfielders behind that player.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Dec 7, 2019 22:52:04 GMT
I give zero fucks about 9th place finishes when the environment he created has put us on the brink of a return to the 3rd tier. The guy is a charlatan and a wanker. He’s not a charlatan. He did a very good job for a while until he lost the plot, just like his predecessor. The difference is the board waited too long to sack one and got rid of one at the right time. Totally disagree. They should have sussed hughes from the start when the team became less fit almost instantly and wankers were being allowed in the dressing room under the pretence that they were creative talent. That's not Stoke. Hard work and fighters make a Stoke team not poncey no marks waiting for their move to a bigger better club. I'll give hughes Bojan. That lad had character befitting of a stoke team.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 7, 2019 22:53:55 GMT
He’s not a charlatan. He did a very good job for a while until he lost the plot, just like his predecessor. The difference is the board waited too long to sack one and got rid of one at the right time. Totally disagree. They should have sussed hughes from the start when the team became less fit almost instantly and wankers were being allowed in the dressing room under the pretence that they were creative talent. That's not Stoke. Hard work and fighters make a Stoke team not poncey no marks waiting for their move to a bigger better club. I'll give hughes Bojan. That lad had character befitting of a stoke team. So again...how did this poncy, workshy, unfit bunch actually finish higher than any Pulis team managed?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2019 22:55:18 GMT
4-2-3-1 with our players just slides into becoming 4-5-1 which leaves us right where we already are. It may be fine defensively if it's team effort to help each other out (and that team effort is then extended to combine our way forward) - though for some it just becomes an excuse to go into hiding - but when we supposedly go on counterattack the still single forward is just too far removed from the rest of the team, and our long balls forward to him are back against us seconds later. It depends who the number 10 is. If you set out to play 4-2-3-1 and play Powell or Duffy there then it doesn’t become 4-5-1 but you’ve got to have disciplined midfielders behind that player. Oh sure. We can play wonderfully if we have the right disciplined men. But we don't. I'd love for Nick to be playing every single moment he is fit, but his current manager doesn't see him as a 10. Bizarrely nor did his previous manager.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Dec 7, 2019 22:59:37 GMT
Totally disagree. They should have sussed hughes from the start when the team became less fit almost instantly and wankers were being allowed in the dressing room under the pretence that they were creative talent. That's not Stoke. Hard work and fighters make a Stoke team not poncey no marks waiting for their move to a bigger better club. I'll give hughes Bojan. That lad had character befitting of a stoke team. So again...how did this poncy, workshy, unfit bunch actually finish higher than any Pulis team managed? Because it gave our competitors something else to think about. Suddenly we weren't this up and at em hard fighting team but more expansive. It worked for a while but it changed our successful DNA into a team of tossers who don't care. And the management didn't even notice because they were too busy thinking what's all the fuss about. They are to blame nobody else ultimately. Its their club ownership wise and they've turned it into a fucking nightmare.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 7, 2019 23:01:28 GMT
So again...how did this poncy, workshy, unfit bunch actually finish higher than any Pulis team managed? Because it gave our competitors something else to think about. Suddenly we weren't this up and at em hard fighting team but more expansive. It worked for a while but it changed our successful DNA into a team of tossers who don't care. And the management didn't even notice because they were too busy thinking what's all the fuss about. They are to blame nobody else ultimately. Its their club ownership wise and they've turned it into a fucking nightmare. So it worked actually better than it had before, yes? It actually improved on this ‘disciplined team of fighters’?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2019 23:02:27 GMT
I'll give hughes Bojan. That lad had character befitting of a stoke team. And then Rowett and Jones set about knocking the spirit out of that character and in doing so removed the final creativity in the club.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Dec 7, 2019 23:04:31 GMT
Because it gave our competitors something else to think about. Suddenly we weren't this up and at em hard fighting team but more expansive. It worked for a while but it changed our successful DNA into a team of tossers who don't care. And the management didn't even notice because they were too busy thinking what's all the fuss about. They are to blame nobody else ultimately. Its their club ownership wise and they've turned it into a fucking nightmare. So it worked actually better than it had before, yes? It actually improved on this ‘disciplined team of fighters’? Yeah but its not fucking working out very well now is it. In business there is something called medium and long term strategic planning. Management phrases this bunch of wankers in the senior management have never heard of evidently. They have failed to manage their OWN club. They and they alone are to blame.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 7, 2019 23:06:06 GMT
So it worked actually better than it had before, yes? It actually improved on this ‘disciplined team of fighters’? Yeah but its not fucking working out very well now is it. In business there is something called medium and long term strategic planning. Management phrases this bunch of wankers in the senior management have never heard of evidently. They have failed to manage their OWN club. They and they alone are to blame. Well that was my point, yes. Both Pulis and Hughes were good managers for us until they weren’t. If they’d done with Hughes what they did with Pulis, Hughes would be more fondly remembered an we likely wouldn’t be in this mess.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Dec 7, 2019 23:11:38 GMT
Yeah but its not fucking working out very well now is it. In business there is something called medium and long term strategic planning. Management phrases this bunch of wankers in the senior management have never heard of evidently. They have failed to manage their OWN club. They and they alone are to blame. Well that was my point, yes. Both Pulis and Hughes were good managers for us until they weren’t. If they’d done with Hughes what they did with Pulis, Hughes would be more fondly remembered an we likely wouldn’t be in this mess. My point is if they had paid attention to Hughes properly they would have seen a worrying trend with the squad. That they are getting less fit and suddenly there seems to be a stark difference in their application towards the club and work ethic. They were too busy fucking about doing something else. It is a disgrace that they have let this cancer fester untreated for so long that was introduced by hughes. The senior directors are to blame. Helped by managers out of their depth along the way agreed, give you that. But they should not have allowed such a difficult environment to develop in the first place. Poor management however we cook it up from the board.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2019 23:59:22 GMT
Well that was my point, yes. Both Pulis and Hughes were good managers for us until they weren’t. If they’d done with Hughes what they did with Pulis, Hughes would be more fondly remembered an we likely wouldn’t be in this mess. My point is if they had paid attention to Hughes properly they would have seen a worrying trend with the squad. That they are getting less fit and suddenly there seems to be a stark difference in their application towards the club and work ethic. They were too busy fucking about doing something else. It is a disgrace that they have let this cancer fester untreated for so long that was introduced by hughes. The senior directors are to blame. Helped by managers out of their depth along the way agreed, give you that. But they should not have allowed such a difficult environment to develop in the first place. Poor management however we cook it up from the board. It's not their job to keep a lookout for that; Most owners/directors at other clubs don't even visit the training ground, ever, Coates does but only to have a community lunch with the staff and players. He may look at training from the sideline, as a casual activity for a few minutes, but he doesn't know the first thing about training, fitness, and form. He's left the running of the club to people he trusts, sometimes they let him down and he reluctantly has to act, but it doesn't change his general outlook on how he is and gets things done. He is an owner of a club, as a spare time activity, He doesn't work at the club and doesn't see what you think you see.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Dec 8, 2019 0:07:03 GMT
My point is if they had paid attention to Hughes properly they would have seen a worrying trend with the squad. That they are getting less fit and suddenly there seems to be a stark difference in their application towards the club and work ethic. They were too busy fucking about doing something else. It is a disgrace that they have let this cancer fester untreated for so long that was introduced by hughes. The senior directors are to blame. Helped by managers out of their depth along the way agreed, give you that. But they should not have allowed such a difficult environment to develop in the first place. Poor management however we cook it up from the board. It's not their job to keep a lookout for that; Most owners/directors at other clubs don't even visit the training ground, ever, Coates does but only to have a community lunch with the staff and players. He may look at training from the sideline, as a casual activity for a few minutes, but he doesn't know the first thing about training, fitness, and form. He's left the running of the club to people he trusts, sometimes they let him down and he reluctantly has to act, but it doesn't change his general outlook on how he is and gets things done. He is an owner of a club, as a spare time activity, He doesn't work at the club and doesn't see what you think you see. Well if that is the case then they need to start paying some fucking attention pretty fucking quickly because if you haven't and they haven't noticed we've gone from a bear pit team full of passion to a team of utter cu*ts in 3 or 4 years flat. Very trusting people if they think nothing of tens of millions spent without keeping an eye on the investment. Not how I would run a business if I am being honest. Not their job to keep an eye on that? Fucking hell the world has gone daft. Edit: actually we haven't been a bear pit team full of passion for longer than 4 years but my point remains the same. They have lost the plot and evidently don't know how to run a football club in the modern era.
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Post by stokeykez on Dec 8, 2019 1:53:02 GMT
Think on todays performance Butland Baath Edwards Bmi Ward Allen Clucas Woods Ince McLean Vokes
Should all without a doubt ...be nowhere near that fuckin pitch on tuesday. Like o'Neil says hes given them more than enough chances to prove they should be picked.
Instead Federici Collins Shawcross Smith Etebo Ndiaye Gregory Campbell Hogan Jarvis Diouf Ngoy
Any of this lot should be picked in that team over the 11 that went out today. Cant find an alternative left back because we havent got one
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2019 5:11:05 GMT
It's not their job to keep a lookout for that; Most owners/directors at other clubs don't even visit the training ground, ever, Coates does but only to have a community lunch with the staff and players. He may look at training from the sideline, as a casual activity for a few minutes, but he doesn't know the first thing about training, fitness, and form. He's left the running of the club to people he trusts, sometimes they let him down and he reluctantly has to act, but it doesn't change his general outlook on how he is and gets things done. He is an owner of a club, as a spare time activity, He doesn't work at the club and doesn't see what you think you see. Well if that is the case then they need to start paying some fucking attention pretty fucking quickly because if you haven't and they haven't noticed we've gone from a bear pit team full of passion to a team of utter cu*ts in 3 or 4 years flat. Very trusting people if they think nothing of tens of millions spent without keeping an eye on the investment. Not how I would run a business if I am being honest. Not their job to keep an eye on that? Fucking hell the world has gone daft. Edit: actually we haven't been a bear pit team full of passion for longer than 4 years but my point remains the same. They have lost the plot and evidently don't know how to run a football club in the modern era. I didn't say that. You were talking about them watching training. Now you've changed the tune to watching games. But even so they don't look upon scfc as a business they're running. It's their private little toy. They have and always have had men to do the running of the club.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Dec 8, 2019 11:32:18 GMT
Well if that is the case then they need to start paying some fucking attention pretty fucking quickly because if you haven't and they haven't noticed we've gone from a bear pit team full of passion to a team of utter cu*ts in 3 or 4 years flat. Very trusting people if they think nothing of tens of millions spent without keeping an eye on the investment. Not how I would run a business if I am being honest. Not their job to keep an eye on that? Fucking hell the world has gone daft. Edit: actually we haven't been a bear pit team full of passion for longer than 4 years but my point remains the same. They have lost the plot and evidently don't know how to run a football club in the modern era. I didn't say that. You were talking about them watching training. Now you've changed the tune to watching games. But even so they don't look upon scfc as a business they're running. It's their private little toy. They have and always have had men to do the running of the club. I am on about them watching everything that everyone does, not just training or "changing the tune to watching games". Especially when warning signs have been going off for a good 4 years now. They have run the club incompetently for a good 4 or 5 years now. And I am beginning to now realise that they never have run it well. They just got lucky that Pulis ran the whole fucking show for them and brought them all their success. They are clueless and the evidence is all over the pitch.
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Post by crapslinger on Dec 8, 2019 11:38:10 GMT
Well if that is the case then they need to start paying some fucking attention pretty fucking quickly because if you haven't and they haven't noticed we've gone from a bear pit team full of passion to a team of utter cu*ts in 3 or 4 years flat. Very trusting people if they think nothing of tens of millions spent without keeping an eye on the investment. Not how I would run a business if I am being honest. Not their job to keep an eye on that? Fucking hell the world has gone daft. Edit: actually we haven't been a bear pit team full of passion for longer than 4 years but my point remains the same. They have lost the plot and evidently don't know how to run a football club in the modern era. I didn't say that. You were talking about them watching training. Now you've changed the tune to watching games. But even so they don't look upon scfc as a business they're running. It's their private little toy. They have and always have had men to do the running of the club. They employed the men to run the football club for them therefore it is their responsibility to ensure these men are doing their jobs effectively, you can not delegate responsibility it's downright incompetence on the owners part simple as that.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Dec 8, 2019 11:38:47 GMT
It has to be 4-2-3-1.
Any of our keepers Smith, ryan, batth, clucas Etebo, badou Ince (until verlinden returns), powell, McLean Diouf
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Post by Pugsley on Dec 8, 2019 11:41:13 GMT
4 managers , 4 windows and 70million quid since Hughes left but it's all his fault. Conversely the best run of finishes in a top flight league ever by a Stoke City team is not his doing.
No wonder any manager coming to Stoke doesn't stand a chance, unless he wears the club shop, is named Tony and acts like a complete cunt.
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Post by nonameface on Dec 8, 2019 11:41:19 GMT
And so the question remains how have the senior management allowed nigh on 100m spent with no right winger and zero pace in the entire squad? The problem is most certainly upstairs with Stoke. Its not even an argument anymore. Ince is a right winger. He's a right inside forward; useless at it too.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2019 11:46:08 GMT
The back four in any combination is simply shocking. If we spend any money in January we need to buy in all four positions, Forget a new striker etc etc this has to be the priority.
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Post by TinkerT on Dec 8, 2019 11:49:40 GMT
It has to be 4-2-3-1. Any of our keepers Smith, ryan, batth, clucas Etebo, badou Ince (until verlinden returns), powell, McLean Diouf Duffy for ince but bob on. Would never want ince play for the club again he boils my piss, if he had 1/5 of his old man's balls he would be some player.
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Post by abcd1234 on Dec 8, 2019 12:28:09 GMT
Don't let Barnsley fool you. They were a terrible team who gave us goals from their keeper and a scramble after a corner. The win in the home game was courtesy of their defender deflecting the ball to Diouf. We will never improve as long as the nearest player to pass forwards to is 30 yards away. Woods hides and points to other players as does Clucas. We need to get closer and play short passes up the pitch for a change You cant just discredit league wins like that in my opinion.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 8, 2019 12:33:02 GMT
Don't let Barnsley fool you. They were a terrible team who gave us goals from their keeper and a scramble after a corner. The win in the home game was courtesy of their defender deflecting the ball to Diouf. We will never improve as long as the nearest player to pass forwards to is 30 yards away. Woods hides and points to other players as does Clucas. We need to get closer and play short passes up the pitch for a change You cant just discredit league wins like that in my opinion. It’s very much an outlier compared to everything else we’ve seen though isn’t it?
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Dec 8, 2019 12:36:04 GMT
Don't let Barnsley fool you. They were a terrible team who gave us goals from their keeper and a scramble after a corner. The win in the home game was courtesy of their defender deflecting the ball to Diouf. We will never improve as long as the nearest player to pass forwards to is 30 yards away. Woods hides and points to other players as does Clucas. We need to get closer and play short passes up the pitch for a change You cant just discredit league wins like that in my opinion. Likewise you can’t overblow wins against the only side in the division worse than us on a fraction of the transfer budget. Which people did.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2019 12:39:06 GMT
I didn't say that. You were talking about them watching training. Now you've changed the tune to watching games. But even so they don't look upon scfc as a business they're running. It's their private little toy. They have and always have had men to do the running of the club. They employed the men to run the football club for them therefore it is their responsibility to ensure these men are doing their jobs effectively, you can not delegate responsibility it's downright incompetence on the owners part simple as that. That is the owners' prerogative and has been down through the ages of football. Though they claim to have a different business model to other clubs, this is the way football clubs are run outside the top six and maybe one or two more.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2019 12:42:30 GMT
I didn't say that. You were talking about them watching training. Now you've changed the tune to watching games. But even so they don't look upon scfc as a business they're running. It's their private little toy. They have and always have had men to do the running of the club. I am on about them watching everything that everyone does, not just training or "changing the tune to watching games". Especially when warning signs have been going off for a good 4 years now. They have run the club incompetently for a good 4 or 5 years now. And I am beginning to now realise that they never have run it well. They just got lucky that Pulis ran the whole fucking show for them and brought them all their success. They are clueless and the evidence is all over the pitch. You expect busy businessmen to spend all day long "watching everything that everyone does"...that is a very novel idea but it's never going to happen.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Dec 8, 2019 12:49:10 GMT
I am on about them watching everything that everyone does, not just training or "changing the tune to watching games". Especially when warning signs have been going off for a good 4 years now. They have run the club incompetently for a good 4 or 5 years now. And I am beginning to now realise that they never have run it well. They just got lucky that Pulis ran the whole fucking show for them and brought them all their success. They are clueless and the evidence is all over the pitch. You expect busy businessmen to spend all day long "watching everything that everyone does"...that is a very novel idea but it's never going to happen. Well something needs to happen because the "process" they are currently reliant on is a total utter sack of shit. I think we can probably both agree on that.
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Post by crapslinger on Dec 8, 2019 12:53:19 GMT
They employed the men to run the football club for them therefore it is their responsibility to ensure these men are doing their jobs effectively, you can not delegate responsibility it's downright incompetence on the owners part simple as that. That is the owners' prerogative and has been down through the ages of football. Though they claim to have a different business model to other clubs, this is the way football clubs are run outside the top six and maybe one or two more. Nothing wrong with the process
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