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Post by Miles Offside on Dec 7, 2019 20:18:07 GMT
I think we were second on every meaningful stat again today. We had less possession, fewer shots on goal, lower passing accuracy and, inevitably, fewer goals.
Playing five midfielders and one isolated immobile striker will never get us the results we need. We're going to get relegated without barely raising a whimper at this rate. Much of it is down to the players; absolutely no doubt about that. But the manager's team selection and tactics (like the team selections and tactics of our recent managers) are working against us.
In his first game in charge he effectively let the players off the leash. At Barnsley they played with a freedom; we imposed ourselves instead of just reacting to the opposition, which we do too often. We rode our luck, but it worked. We looked like a team that enjoyed its football.
Barnsley was the exception. Most games, we look too narrow, too fragile, unable to defend as a unit and toothless up front.
Time to put in a structure that keeps us solid and also allows us to get at the opposition. It's time for a proper 4-3-3 or 4-4-2.
There are plenty of games left to save ourselves, but we won't if carry on allowing every organised side of no-marks to outplay us.
We'll never develop a winning mentality playing one up front. We've now won 22 of our last 104 games with a goal difference of minus 54.
Time to change the balance on the field and, if we still go down, we'll go down having put up a fight.
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Post by albundy on Dec 7, 2019 20:30:38 GMT
Don't let Barnsley fool you. They were a terrible team who gave us goals from their keeper and a scramble after a corner. The win in the home game was courtesy of their defender deflecting the ball to Diouf.
We will never improve as long as the nearest player to pass forwards to is 30 yards away.
Woods hides and points to other players as does Clucas. We need to get closer and play short passes up the pitch for a change
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Post by sealion100 on Dec 7, 2019 20:30:41 GMT
At last !! A great post
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Post by LGH87 on Dec 7, 2019 20:32:47 GMT
Play 4-2-3-1.
That’s the formation the squad suits, it has done for as long as I can remember yet manager after manager refuses to play it.
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Post by Miles Offside on Dec 7, 2019 20:36:20 GMT
Play 4-2-3-1. That’s the formation the squad suits, it has done for as long as I can remember yet manager after manager refuses to play it. I could go with that as an away formation. Trouble is, when we're at home the forward midfielders sit too deep and there's often a gap between them and the lone striker.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 7, 2019 20:44:48 GMT
Again, one up front isn’t in and of itself a defensive ploy. We put five last Bolton at Wembley and six past Liverpool with one up front.
You need to get attacking players supporting that lone striker though.
The issue with 442 is it’s got no chance of working while Allen remains undroppable. We also don’t at the moment have a right winger suited to 442.
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Post by Miles Offside on Dec 7, 2019 20:51:48 GMT
Again, one up front isn’t in and of itself a defensive ploy. We put five last Bolton at Wembley and six past Liverpool with one up front. You need to get attacking players supporting that lone striker though. The issue with 442 is it’s got no chance of working while Allen remains undroppable. We also don’t at the moment have a right winger suited to 442. We played with Walters and Jones up front when we scored 5 against Bolton at Wembley, plus two attacking wingers in Etherington and Pennant. Against Liverpool, we played Walters, Diouf, Crouch. Plus, I can't remember, were Arnie and Shaq playing too?
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Dec 7, 2019 20:54:16 GMT
Again, one up front isn’t in and of itself a defensive ploy. We put five last Bolton at Wembley and six past Liverpool with one up front. You need to get attacking players supporting that lone striker though. The issue with 442 is it’s got no chance of working while Allen remains undroppable. We also don’t at the moment have a right winger suited to 442. And so the question remains how have the senior management allowed nigh on 100m spent with no right winger and zero pace in the entire squad? The problem is most certainly upstairs with Stoke. Its not even an argument anymore.
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Post by smallthorner on Dec 7, 2019 20:55:32 GMT
Again, one up front isn’t in and of itself a defensive ploy. We put five last Bolton at Wembley and six past Liverpool with one up front. You need to get attacking players supporting that lone striker though. The issue with 442 is it’s got no chance of working while Allen remains undroppable. We also don’t at the moment have a right winger suited to 442. Duffy has played that role a lot. Worth a go. Or right on 4231 Woth Badou and Etebo as the two. But that doesn't look like it will happen.
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Post by smallthorner on Dec 7, 2019 20:56:41 GMT
Again, one up front isn’t in and of itself a defensive ploy. We put five last Bolton at Wembley and six past Liverpool with one up front. You need to get attacking players supporting that lone striker though. The issue with 442 is it’s got no chance of working while Allen remains undroppable. We also don’t at the moment have a right winger suited to 442. And so the question remains how have the senior management allowed nigh on 100m spent with no right winger and zero pace in the entire squad? The problem is most certainly upstairs with Stoke. Its not even an argument anymore. Ince is a right winger.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 7, 2019 20:57:08 GMT
Again, one up front isn’t in and of itself a defensive ploy. We put five last Bolton at Wembley and six past Liverpool with one up front. You need to get attacking players supporting that lone striker though. The issue with 442 is it’s got no chance of working while Allen remains undroppable. We also don’t at the moment have a right winger suited to 442. We played with Walters and Jones up front when we scored 5 against Bolton at Wembley, plus two attacking wingers in Etherington and Pennant. Against Liverpool, we played Walters, Diouf, Crouch. Plus, I can't remember, were Arnie and Shaq playing too? Walters was playing behind Jones. We played 4-4-1-1, as we almost always did under Pulis. Against Liverpool we played 4-1-4-1. We hadn’t signed Shaq yet. Crouch came off the bench. We played Whelan, Nzonzi, Adam in midfield and Arnie, Diouf and Walters as the attacking three.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2019 20:58:13 GMT
Again, one up front isn’t in and of itself a defensive ploy. We put five last Bolton at Wembley and six past Liverpool with one up front. You need to get attacking players supporting that lone striker though. The issue with 442 is it’s got no chance of working while Allen remains undroppable. We also don’t at the moment have a right winger suited to 442. We played with Walters and Jones up front when we scored 5 against Bolton at Wembley, plus two attacking wingers in Etherington and Pennant. Against Liverpool, we played Walters, Diouf, Crouch. Plus, I can't remember, were Arnie and Shaq playing too? Crouch came off the bench
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 7, 2019 20:58:26 GMT
Again, one up front isn’t in and of itself a defensive ploy. We put five last Bolton at Wembley and six past Liverpool with one up front. You need to get attacking players supporting that lone striker though. The issue with 442 is it’s got no chance of working while Allen remains undroppable. We also don’t at the moment have a right winger suited to 442. And so the question remains how have the senior management allowed nigh on 100m spent with no right winger and zero pace in the entire squad? The problem is most certainly upstairs with Stoke. Its not even an argument anymore. Senior management have allowed the managers too much say, absolutely. We need more joined up thinking and an overarching strategy. Saying ‘the problem’ suggests there’s only one but there’s loads, including the managers.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Dec 7, 2019 20:58:38 GMT
And so the question remains how have the senior management allowed nigh on 100m spent with no right winger and zero pace in the entire squad? The problem is most certainly upstairs with Stoke. Its not even an argument anymore. Ince is a right winger. No he is not. He's barely even worthy of being described as a professional footballer. He's weak lightweight and passionless. My 9 year old has more bollox than him on a football pitch.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 7, 2019 20:59:09 GMT
Again, one up front isn’t in and of itself a defensive ploy. We put five last Bolton at Wembley and six past Liverpool with one up front. You need to get attacking players supporting that lone striker though. The issue with 442 is it’s got no chance of working while Allen remains undroppable. We also don’t at the moment have a right winger suited to 442. Duffy has played that role a lot. Worth a go. Or right on 4231 Woth Badou and Etebo as the two. But that doesn't look like it will happen. Duffy’s a strange one isn’t it? Should’ve been a phenomenal signing, can’t work out how it’s not happened for him.
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Post by mrcoke on Dec 7, 2019 21:01:21 GMT
For me it isn't formations etc. but a sheer lack of creativity and teamwork. We seem to freeze on the ball in our own penalty area. Hull were guilty of passing into touch too often, whereas we specialise in passing to the opponents.
The second half was absolutely devoid of any talent on our part. Fortunately Butland made a few excellent saves in the first half to keep us in the lead and Hull's shooting and heading was dire in the second half or they could of scored half a dozen goals today.
I can understand MON wanting to establish a settled team, but it now time to give others a chance. Edward's was disappointing and needs game time to find his form.
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Post by smallthorner on Dec 7, 2019 21:01:46 GMT
No he is not. He's barely even worthy of being described as a professional footballer. He's weak lightweight and passionless. My 9 year old has more bollox than him on a football pitch. That isn't the point mate. The hierarchy trusted the managers judgement. At the time probably right.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Dec 7, 2019 21:04:41 GMT
No he is not. He's barely even worthy of being described as a professional footballer. He's weak lightweight and passionless. My 9 year old has more bollox than him on a football pitch. That isn't the point mate. The hierarchy trusted the managers judgement. At the time probably right. Disagree. He has a very poor attitude. Something the club need to get smarter at filtering out.
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Post by smallthorner on Dec 7, 2019 21:04:52 GMT
Duffy has played that role a lot. Worth a go. Or right on 4231 Woth Badou and Etebo as the two. But that doesn't look like it will happen. Duffy’s a strange one isn’t it? Should’ve been a phenomenal signing, can’t work out how it’s not happened for him. He's not had a chance has he?? Other than a couple of cameos. Tuesday would be a perfect opportunity. Either a no10 or out wide right in a 4231. He's played both for the blades.. with considerable success.
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Post by smallthorner on Dec 7, 2019 21:08:40 GMT
That isn't the point mate. The hierarchy trusted the managers judgement. At the time probably right. Disagree. He has a very poor attitude. Something the club need to get smarter at filtering out. So who made mistake? The manager or the hierarchy??
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Dec 7, 2019 21:11:43 GMT
Disagree. He has a very poor attitude. Something the club need to get smarter at filtering out. So who made mistake? The manager or the hierarchy?? The hierarchy. They have had their eyes off the road since Pulis left. Pulis was that good at everything the management got complacent and they let MH create a doss house. We are now paying the price, a very heavy one.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2019 21:14:51 GMT
I do wonder what research our new manager has done since he took the job or even before it. This is the team that took the field against Birmingham City back in August.
Federici
Smith Batth Lindsay Ward
Etebo Clucas Allen
Ince Gregory McClean
We had more possession that day than today but we had a similar amount of chances (7 shots, 3 on target compared to 6 shots, 4 on target today). Same end result.
It just doesn't work.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 7, 2019 21:15:02 GMT
So who made mistake? The manager or the hierarchy?? The hierarchy. They have had their eyes off the road since Pulis left. Pulis was that good at everything the management got complacent and they let MH create a doss house. We are now paying the price, a very heavy one. How are the hierarchy to blame for the Ince signing? If he’d been a success would you have given them the credit for it? The hierarchy are to blame for a lot but you seem to excuse the managers everything Micky?
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Dec 7, 2019 21:17:19 GMT
The hierarchy. They have had their eyes off the road since Pulis left. Pulis was that good at everything the management got complacent and they let MH create a doss house. We are now paying the price, a very heavy one. How are the hierarchy to blame for the Ince signing? If he’d been a success would you have given them the credit for it? The hierarchy are to blame for a lot but you seem to excuse the managers everything Micky? I am not talking about specific incidents. I am talking about 4 years of utter shit and catastrophic strategic decisions made time after time after time. That's the hierarchy not being in control of their own club. They are to blame.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 7, 2019 21:18:11 GMT
How are the hierarchy to blame for the Ince signing? If he’d been a success would you have given them the credit for it? The hierarchy are to blame for a lot but you seem to excuse the managers everything Micky? I am not talking about specific incidents. I am talking about 4 years of utter shit and catastrophic strategic decisions made time after time after time. That's the hierarchy not being in control of their own club. They are to blame. You specifically blamed them for that signing on this thread though mate?
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Post by smallthorner on Dec 7, 2019 21:21:34 GMT
So who made mistake? The manager or the hierarchy?? The hierarchy. They have had their eyes off the road since Pulis left. Pulis was that good at everything the management got complacent and they let MH create a doss house. We are now paying the price, a very heavy one. I'm not totally against what you say but didn't Sparky create our best three top division finishes. I just think we dropped three enormous bollocks with wimmer, berahino and Imbula and then employed two toss managers... simples.
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Post by Goonie on Dec 7, 2019 21:24:42 GMT
We have a balance?? ?
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Dec 7, 2019 22:26:21 GMT
I am not talking about specific incidents. I am talking about 4 years of utter shit and catastrophic strategic decisions made time after time after time. That's the hierarchy not being in control of their own club. They are to blame. You specifically blamed them for that signing on this thread though mate? Whatever pal. Our board are totally fucking useless. Present a case that tells me otherwise and I will debate with you.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Dec 7, 2019 22:28:39 GMT
The hierarchy. They have had their eyes off the road since Pulis left. Pulis was that good at everything the management got complacent and they let MH create a doss house. We are now paying the price, a very heavy one. I'm not totally against what you say but didn't Sparky create our best three top division finishes. I just think we dropped three enormous bollocks with wimmer, berahino and Imbula and then employed two toss managers... simples. I give zero fucks about 9th place finishes when the environment he created has put us on the brink of a return to the 3rd tier. The guy is a charlatan and a wanker.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 7, 2019 22:31:13 GMT
You specifically blamed them for that signing on this thread though mate? Whatever pal. Our board are totally fucking useless. Present a case that tells me otherwise and I will debate with you. Where have I argued that they’re not mate? It’s just a bit more nuanced than every single thing being one person’s fault, that’s all I’m saying. You blame Scholes for every single thing. He’s at fault for a lot but he isn’t picking the team. He isn’t identifying the signings. He isn’t choosing the managers.
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