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Post by Godo on Dec 1, 2019 23:57:44 GMT
I have no idea why our 2 best players weren't selected yesterday against a team we should have been looking to get 3 pts from. I'd have gone for;
Butland Edwards Batth Collins Tymon Ndiaye Etebo Clucas Diouf Hogan McClean
Even if ONeill doesn't want to build a team around players who may go in January we should be focusing upon getting points in winnable games. Ward, Vokes, Indi, Woods showed just how ineffectual they are and will never be good enough and Ince needs taking out of the firing line.
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Post by pez75 on Dec 2, 2019 13:55:36 GMT
First, the manager seems set on a 433. You can’t really play that effectively without a holding midfielder. Badou is the only one we have. You don’t want your holding midfielder harrying high up the pitch, you want him to be disciplined. Which he has been. Woods is more of a deep lying playmaker. If he’s playing a possession based system then retention and passing qualities are more important. Woods has that over Badou.
None of our midfielders are capable of ‘pass and interchange’. Allen yesterday frequently nicked the ball and then immediately passed it straight to one of their players. It wasn’t on display much yesterday but has been in previous games. Particularly the lead up to Clucas’s second goal at Barnsley. ‘Drive with the ball and lay it off’ seems like an inherently sensible strategy. Why wouldn’t we want to do that, especially in this system? Because it’s not what he’s looking for currently, it’s sensible but it’s a different style. We were told MON was a sensible pragmatist who knew how to play to the strengths of what he’d got at his disposal. What you’re laying out sounds like almost the opposite of that. Not really. He’s selected a style based on the attributes of the majority of the midfielders rather than our best technically, because they might not be here long and our very best has shown flagrant disloyalty. The only thing Woods has over badou is that his hair is more ginger...
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Post by Gods on Dec 2, 2019 14:12:12 GMT
I have no idea why our 2 best players weren't selected yesterday against a team we should have been looking to get 3 pts from. I'd have gone for; Butland Edwards Batth Collins Tymon Ndiaye Etebo Clucas Diouf Hogan McClean Even if ONeill doesn't want to build a team around players who may go in January we should be focusing upon getting points in winnable games. Ward, Vokes, Indi, Woods showed just how ineffectual they are and will never be good enough and Ince needs taking out of the firing line. I think Tymon is a bench warmer for a little known Portuguese outfit called Familicao
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Post by timbstoke on Dec 2, 2019 14:28:32 GMT
Maybe, as a new manager who has promised a clean slate for all players, he wants to get everybody playing to figure out who is worth keeping in January?
Maybe he's under orders to give game time to potential transfer targets ahead of the window?
Maybe Badou and Etebo aren't performing well in training?
Maybe as somebody whose job it is to work with the players day in, day out, he knows something we don't?
For fucks sake, give the bloke a chance to get through the door before wanting to kick him back out of it.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 2, 2019 14:38:35 GMT
Maybe, as a new manager who has promised a clean slate for all players, he wants to get everybody playing to figure out who is worth keeping in January? Maybe he's under orders to give game time to potential transfer targets ahead of the window? Maybe Badou and Etebo aren't performing well in training? Maybe as somebody whose job it is to work with the players day in, day out, he knows something we don't? For fucks sake, give the bloke a chance to get through the door before wanting to kick him back out of it. If they’re performing on matchdays who gives a fuck what they’re doing in training? They’ve proven to be two of our best players. We don’t have time to ‘figure out who is worth keeping’ by dropping them, we need every point we can get our hands on.
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Post by spiderpuss on Dec 2, 2019 14:48:10 GMT
I have no idea why our 2 best players weren't selected yesterday against a team we should have been looking to get 3 pts from. I'd have gone for; Butland Edwards Batth Collins Tymon Ndiaye Etebo Clucas Diouf Hogan McClean Even if ONeill doesn't want to build a team around players who may go in January we should be focusing upon getting points in winnable games. Ward, Vokes, Indi, Woods showed just how ineffectual they are and will never be good enough and Ince needs taking out of the firing line. Probably being flogged off in Jan = don't want them injured.
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Post by canadianmoose on Dec 2, 2019 14:49:21 GMT
Maybe, as a new manager who has promised a clean slate for all players, he wants to get everybody playing to figure out who is worth keeping in January? Maybe he's under orders to give game time to potential transfer targets ahead of the window? Maybe Badou and Etebo aren't performing well in training? Maybe as somebody whose job it is to work with the players day in, day out, he knows something we don't? For fucks sake, give the bloke a chance to get through the door before wanting to kick him back out of it. If they’re performing on matchdays who gives a fuck what they’re doing in training? They’ve proven to be two of our best players. We don’t have time to ‘figure out who is worth keeping’ by dropping them, we need every point we can get our hands on. How do you build a team letting people do 'whatever the fuck they want' in training? Serious question. Even Ric had to toe the line for the most part under Pulis although he got away with some things. I would suggest a lack of 'giving a fuck' in training has been part of the problem the last 3 years.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 2, 2019 14:53:05 GMT
If they’re performing on matchdays who gives a fuck what they’re doing in training? They’ve proven to be two of our best players. We don’t have time to ‘figure out who is worth keeping’ by dropping them, we need every point we can get our hands on. How do you build a team letting people do 'whatever the fuck they want' in training? Serious question. Long-term, you don't. When you're knee deep in shite, you play your best players provided they're willing to put a shift in on the pitch, which both of these players are. It's a needs must scenario. That's likely why Ricardo Fuller likely escaped bigger censure for slapping his captain in the face while said captain was pretty much never heard from again. Fuller was priceless, Griff was expendable. It wasn't fair, but it was 100% the right call and we'd quite possible have been relegated if a different one had been made. There's been no suggestion from anyone that Etebo and Badou haven't trained well, has there?
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Post by canadianmoose on Dec 2, 2019 14:57:02 GMT
How do you build a team letting people do 'whatever the fuck they want' in training? Serious question. Long-term, you don't. When you're knee deep in shite, you play your best players provided they're willing to put a shift in on the pitch, which both of these players are. It's a needs must scenario. That's likely why Ricardo Fuller likely escaped bigger censure for slapping his captain in the face while said captain was pretty much never heard from again. Fuller was priceless, Griff was expendable. It wasn't fair, but it was 100% the right call and we'd quite possible have been relegated if a different one had been made. There's been no suggestion from anyone that Etebo and Badou haven't trained well, has there? Well, either O'Neil doesn't rate them in which case I would be seriously concerned about his judgement in less than 5 games or he doesn't like their attitude for some reason. I'm hoping its the latter because that would at least be an understandable reason for his decision on not picking them. No idea about the training. Its a hypothesis as there must be some reason. I would hope the media will ask the question very soon.
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Post by dirtygary69 on Dec 2, 2019 15:00:47 GMT
You'd hope/expect that MON is still sounding out the likes of Delap and Russell who have been here for a while for their opinions on players. Surely they would tell him that we NEED to be playing Etebo and Badou and that Allen & Woods together simply doesn't work and, in Allen's case, he is a complete dud who offers extremely little in any department.
You just know that there is not a chance on Earth on that Etebo and Badou will ever start a game in place of Woods and Allen which is simply criminal.
I don't know what's going on but I just hope it's not another manager without a clue or being hamstrung by contract obligations. The thought of Woods & Allen defending the space against Bowen at Hull fills me with dread. They couldn't even handle Bradley Dack.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Dec 2, 2019 15:53:59 GMT
First, the manager seems set on a 433. You can’t really play that effectively without a holding midfielder. Badou is the only one we have. You don’t want your holding midfielder harrying high up the pitch, you want him to be disciplined. Which he has been. Woods is more of a deep lying playmaker. If he’s playing a possession based system then retention and passing qualities are more important. Woods has that over Badou. None of our midfielders are capable of ‘pass and interchange’. Allen yesterday frequently nicked the ball and then immediately passed it straight to one of their players. It wasn’t on display much yesterday but has been in previous games. Particularly the lead up to Clucas’s second goal at Barnsley. ‘Drive with the ball and lay it off’ seems like an inherently sensible strategy. Why wouldn’t we want to do that, especially in this system? Because it’s not what he’s looking for currently, it’s sensible but it’s a different style. We were told MON was a sensible pragmatist who knew how to play to the strengths of what he’d got at his disposal. What you’re laying out sounds like almost the opposite of that. Not really. He’s selected a style based on the attributes of the majority of the midfielders rather than our best technically, because they might not be here long and our very best has shown flagrant disloyalty. We don't have the luxury of not playing players because they may be gone in Jan, I get the argument and wouldn't mind so much if we were midtable with a few more points on the board, but given we're in the bottom three with the midfield looking all over the place we should be doing everything we can to get out of it.
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Post by biglad180 on Dec 2, 2019 16:28:40 GMT
Someone who interviews.the manager needs to ask the question why these to are not playing they are buy far our best 2 players every fan knows that.and if the management team cannot see it they want fucking off. We do not deserve all the shit what we are getting.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Dec 2, 2019 18:40:53 GMT
Woods is more of a deep lying playmaker. If he’s playing a possession based system then retention and passing qualities are more important. Woods has that over Badou. It wasn’t on display much yesterday but has been in previous games. Particularly the lead up to Clucas’s second goal at Barnsley. Because it’s not what he’s looking for currently, it’s sensible but it’s a different style. Not really. He’s selected a style based on the attributes of the majority of the midfielders rather than our best technically, because they might not be here long and our very best has shown flagrant disloyalty. We don't have the luxury of not playing players because they may be gone in Jan, I get the argument and wouldn't mind so much if we were midtable with a few more points on the board, but given we're in the bottom three with the midfield looking all over the place we should be doing everything we can to get out of it. I think it's a completely naff argument actually. Peter Coates: "Listen Michael, don't play Badou or Etebo because we've got buyers for them in January and we don't want either of them getting injured." Michael O'Neill: "But boss playing them now would give us our best chance of getting the points needed to avoid relegation." Peter Coates: "Listen Michael, them not getting injured is more important than us avoiding relegation." Erm ... nah, can't see it myself.
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Post by neddy on Dec 2, 2019 18:49:27 GMT
We don't have the luxury of not playing players because they may be gone in Jan, I get the argument and wouldn't mind so much if we were midtable with a few more points on the board, but given we're in the bottom three with the midfield looking all over the place we should be doing everything we can to get out of it. I think it's completely naff argument actually. Peter Coates: "Listen Michael, don't play Badou or Etebo because we've got buyers for them in January and we don't want either of them getting injured." Michael O'Neill: "But boss playing them now would give us our best chance of getting the points needed to avoid relegation." Peter Coates: "Listen Michael, them not getting injured is more important than avoiding relegation." Erm ... nah, can't see it myself. I agree....I’m really hoping he’s just trying to see everyone before he makes his January decisions? If thats the case Etebo has to start at Hull....I will watch with interest!
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Post by boskampsflaps on Dec 2, 2019 23:32:40 GMT
We don't have the luxury of not playing players because they may be gone in Jan, I get the argument and wouldn't mind so much if we were midtable with a few more points on the board, but given we're in the bottom three with the midfield looking all over the place we should be doing everything we can to get out of it. I think it's completely naff argument actually. Peter Coates: "Listen Michael, don't play Badou or Etebo because we've got buyers for them in January and we don't want either of them getting injured." Michael O'Neill: "But boss playing them now would give us our best chance of getting the points needed to avoid relegation." Peter Coates: "Listen Michael, them not getting injured is more important than us avoiding relegation." Erm ... nah, can't see it myself. I don't think it would be in case of injury I think it would be about building a team out of the players that are likely to be here after Jan so it doesn't hit us so hard with major gaps to fill, as I say I don't agree with it but I understand why some would think it would be the right thing to do.
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Post by harlequin on Dec 3, 2019 20:05:45 GMT
Woods is more of a deep lying playmaker. If he’s playing a possession based system then retention and passing qualities are more important. Woods has that over Badou. It wasn’t on display much yesterday but has been in previous games. Particularly the lead up to Clucas’s second goal at Barnsley. Because it’s not what he’s looking for currently, it’s sensible but it’s a different style. Not really. He’s selected a style based on the attributes of the majority of the midfielders rather than our best technically, because they might not be here long and our very best has shown flagrant disloyalty. We don't have the luxury of not playing players because they may be gone in Jan, I get the argument and wouldn't mind so much if we were midtable with a few more points on the board, but given we're in the bottom three with the midfield looking all over the place we should be doing everything we can to get out of it. Their possible departure was used in support of the line of reasoning that different playing styles means different players being used, not an argument in and of itself. In which case factors like how long they’ll be here should definitely effect which strategy is used and therefore which players are selected.
Not sure if I’ve explained that well and of course, I could be completely wrong as O’neil seemed to balk at the possession stats.
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Post by FullerMagic on Dec 7, 2019 17:10:04 GMT
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Post by mrteddysalad on Dec 7, 2019 17:14:55 GMT
He’s overreacting a bit, but I can’t argue with the fact that playing Allen and Woods over them is an appalling decision.
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Post by shakermaker on Dec 7, 2019 18:27:34 GMT
He’s overreacting a bit, but I can’t argue with the fact that playing Allen and Woods over them is an appalling decision. Haven't listened to the interview with Nige yet. Has MON explained what this 'injury' to Etebo is? Or what "tactical" benefit he sees to leaving Badou on the bench?! He has a lot to answer for.
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Post by robwahlmann on Dec 7, 2019 18:38:31 GMT
Allen, Clucas and Woods in the middle is the recipe for relegation! If we could get those 3 out in January I'll celebrate for days!
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Post by sealion100 on Dec 7, 2019 18:44:20 GMT
Etebo.....badou.........clucus. Must be our middle 3 on Tuesday !!!!
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Post by trickydicky73 on Dec 7, 2019 18:46:13 GMT
Etebo.....badou.........clucus. Must be our middle 3 on Tuesday !!!! But won't be.
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Post by robwahlmann on Dec 7, 2019 18:47:08 GMT
The only midfield pair who could keep us up, but they hardly get time on the pitch!!!
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Post by boskampsflaps on Dec 7, 2019 18:55:26 GMT
Etebo.....badou.........clucus. Must be our middle 3 on Tuesday !!!! Replace Clucas with Powell and I'd be in full agreement, ditch the 4-3-3 and we'd be onto something.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Dec 7, 2019 18:58:48 GMT
The only midfield pair who could keep us up, but they hardly get time on the pitch!!! Cos they are both off. Its like the 80's all over again. Can't keep our best players. How is Scholes in a job?
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Post by boskampsflaps on Dec 7, 2019 19:00:26 GMT
The only midfield pair who could keep us up, but they hardly get time on the pitch!!! Cos they are both off. Its like the 80's all over again. Can't keep our best players. How is Scholes in a job? Tbf I'm surprised we still have them, they're better than the Champ imo, can't blame the club for it really, we did well to sign Etebo.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Dec 7, 2019 19:15:51 GMT
Cos they are both off. Its like the 80's all over again. Can't keep our best players. How is Scholes in a job? Tbf I'm surprised we still have them, they're better than the Champ imo, can't blame the club for it really, we did well to sign Etebo. But we shouldn't be here, that's my point. I don't buy the "it was inevitable" line that is spouted by some. We've fucked a great opportunity and heads should roll.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Dec 7, 2019 19:25:43 GMT
Tbf I'm surprised we still have them, they're better than the Champ imo, can't blame the club for it really, we did well to sign Etebo. But we shouldn't be here, that's my point. I don't buy the "it was inevitable" line that is spouted by some. We've fucked a great opportunity and heads should roll. They did, the managers, after that its the owners, their heads aren't going anywhere.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2019 19:28:49 GMT
But we shouldn't be here, that's my point. I don't buy the "it was inevitable" line that is spouted by some. We've fucked a great opportunity and heads should roll. They did, the managers, after that its the owners, their heads aren't going anywhere. Unfortunately.
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Post by smallthorner on Dec 7, 2019 19:30:20 GMT
Etebo.....badou.........clucus. Must be our middle 3 on Tuesday !!!! Replace Clucas with Powell and I'd be in full agreement, ditch the 4-3-3 and we'd be onto something. . Seeing we're in pick n mix mood ... Let's try.. In 4231 Smith Shawcross Bruno Clucas Badou Etebo Duffy Powell McClean Diouf Little Joe can be ball boy captain.
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