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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 13, 2019 14:24:24 GMT
Doesn’t it all smack of them both wanting out? Taking the piss in training? Too ‘sick’ to play? Not the first time players have looked to jump ship mid season and hardly surprising given our league position and the possibility of a move to the Prem. What confuses me is the level of grief O’Neill is getting for not playing them. If they can’t be arsed he’s hardly going to play them ahead of others who actually appear to want to play. But you’ve entirely fabricated that haven’t you, making an assumption based on not much? Then defended O’Neill for doing the thing you’ve plucked from nowhere and decided they’ve done? On the pitch their commitment has been absolutely fine and in the state we’re in, we need that more than we need Jordan Cousins trying his little heart out all week in training or Ryan Woods threading them through the eye of a needle at Clayton Wood.
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Post by pottersrule on Dec 13, 2019 14:32:36 GMT
and ince, mcclean, and clucas, please. McClean and Clucas, isn't Clucas up there amongst our top scorers, and at least McClean always gives 100% unlike a lot of others recently ? Oh! But that doesn't fit the agenda.
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Post by foxysgloves on Dec 13, 2019 14:53:49 GMT
Doesn’t it all smack of them both wanting out? Taking the piss in training? Too ‘sick’ to play? Not the first time players have looked to jump ship mid season and hardly surprising given our league position and the possibility of a move to the Prem. What confuses me is the level of grief O’Neill is getting for not playing them. If they can’t be arsed he’s hardly going to play them ahead of others who actually appear to want to play. But you’ve entirely fabricated that haven’t you, making an assumption based on not much? Then defended O’Neill for doing the thing you’ve plucked from nowhere and decided they’ve done? On the pitch their commitment has been absolutely fine and in the state we’re in, we need that more than we need Jordan Cousins trying his little heart out all week in training or Ryan Woods threading them through the eye of a needle at Clayton Wood. “We have to look at what we see during the week and make an assessment of where the players are and what they can bring to the game on a Saturday.‘ “Peter hasn’t really been at the levels since he came back from injury.” O'Neill explained: "Peter came back after, I think, four weeks out. When I came to the club, Peter was injured. He’d come back from international duty and been injured. So that was far from ideal. "His training has been ok, it’s been no better than ok, so that’s important.‘ We’re all fabricating aren’t we? Unless you’ve been at all the training sessions?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 13, 2019 14:58:31 GMT
But you’ve entirely fabricated that haven’t you, making an assumption based on not much? Then defended O’Neill for doing the thing you’ve plucked from nowhere and decided they’ve done? On the pitch their commitment has been absolutely fine and in the state we’re in, we need that more than we need Jordan Cousins trying his little heart out all week in training or Ryan Woods threading them through the eye of a needle at Clayton Wood. “We have to look at what we see during the week and make an assessment of where the players are and what they can bring to the game on a Saturday.‘ “Peter hasn’t really been at the levels since he came back from injury.” O'Neill explained: "Peter came back after, I think, four weeks out. When I came to the club, Peter was injured. He’d come back from international duty and been injured. So that was far from ideal. "His training has been ok, it’s been no better than ok, so that’s important.‘ We’re all fabricating aren’t we? Unless you’ve been at all the training sessions? I haven’t fabricated anything. I’m basing things on the evidence. Or lack thereof. Based on on-field performances, there’s no questioning either player’s commitment. Just because they may be looking for moves hasn’t stopped them giving everything for the cause. This season, there have been significantly more questions over Ryan Woods’ attitude than either Etebo’s or Ndiaye’s, yet he was immediately restored to the team?
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Post by foxysgloves on Dec 13, 2019 15:02:57 GMT
“We have to look at what we see during the week and make an assessment of where the players are and what they can bring to the game on a Saturday.‘ “Peter hasn’t really been at the levels since he came back from injury.” O'Neill explained: "Peter came back after, I think, four weeks out. When I came to the club, Peter was injured. He’d come back from international duty and been injured. So that was far from ideal. "His training has been ok, it’s been no better than ok, so that’s important.‘ We’re all fabricating aren’t we? Unless you’ve been at all the training sessions? I haven’t fabricated anything. I’m basing things on the evidence. Or lack thereof. Based on on-field performances, there’s no questioning either player’s commitment. Just because they may be looking for moves hasn’t stopped them giving everything for the cause. This season, there have been significantly more questions over Ryan Woods’ attitude than either Etebo’s or Ndiaye’s, yet he was immediately restored to the team? You’re basing it on what you’ve see in matches. So you’re saying training doesn’t matter? The manager should base his selection exclusively on how players play in matches?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 13, 2019 15:04:11 GMT
I haven’t fabricated anything. I’m basing things on the evidence. Or lack thereof. Based on on-field performances, there’s no questioning either player’s commitment. Just because they may be looking for moves hasn’t stopped them giving everything for the cause. This season, there have been significantly more questions over Ryan Woods’ attitude than either Etebo’s or Ndiaye’s, yet he was immediately restored to the team? You’re basing it on what you’ve see in matches. So you’re saying training doesn’t matter? The manager should base his selection exclusively on how players play in matches? When we’re mired in the relegation zone and staring trips to Fleetwood in the face, yes. Plenty of top players throughout the history of the game weren’t particularly shit-hot in training but turned it on on matchdays. We can’t afford not to play our best players.
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Post by foxysgloves on Dec 13, 2019 15:10:18 GMT
You’re basing it on what you’ve see in matches. So you’re saying training doesn’t matter? The manager should base his selection exclusively on how players play in matches? When we’re mired in the relegation zone and staring trips to Fleetwood in the face, yes. Plenty of top players throughout the history of the game weren’t particularly shit-hot in training but turned it on on matchdays. We can’t afford not to play our best players. Seriously? Training doesn’t matter? So a manager who prioritises team spirit, togetherness and working as a collective.....should begin his tenure as manager by.....ignoring team spirit, togetherness and working as a collective and just pick players based on 90 minutes on a Saturday. Sounds a bit like what got us in this position in the first place.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 13, 2019 15:13:42 GMT
When we’re mired in the relegation zone and staring trips to Fleetwood in the face, yes. Plenty of top players throughout the history of the game weren’t particularly shit-hot in training but turned it on on matchdays. We can’t afford not to play our best players. Seriously? Training doesn’t matter? So a manager who prioritises team spirit, togetherness and working as a collective.....should begin his tenure as manager by.....ignoring team spirit, togetherness and working as a collective and just pick players based on 90 minutes on a Saturday. Sounds a bit like what got us in this position in the first place. Another assumption. Every club has players who aren’t brilliant in training. Ricardo Fuller frequently failed to turn up on time for it. It doesn’t automatically follow that team spirit will implode. Again, look at the circumstances and tell me we can afford not to play two very good players who have played very well for us? You know what’s good for morale? Winning games. You know what gives you a good chance of doing that? Playing your best players.
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Post by iglugluk on Dec 13, 2019 15:21:06 GMT
This seems to be a complicated situation. If both are not training well then the manager picking them on matchday will send out the wrong message to the rest of the players and potentially damage team spirit. MoN saying that an injury/illness is the reason they're not included is certainly not the way forward if the player involved disagrees publicly on Twitter, and that is a bad move as far as I'm concerned. MoN is the manager right now though and will have his way of managing training and selection which is exactly what he should do and is doing. The performances under him have improved, of that there is no doubt, but games like Cardiff away ( one example ) lead supporters to express dissatisfaction and that's no surprise. Hopefully MoN can balance these conflicting agendas effectively and steer us to safety.. after all that is his purpose in the job he's taken on.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 13, 2019 15:22:38 GMT
This seems to be a complicated situation. If both are not training well then the manager picking them on matchday will send out the wrong message to the rest of the players and potentially damage team spirit. MoN saying that an injury/illness is the reason they're not included is certainly not the way forward if the player involved disagrees publicly on Twitter, and that is a bad move as far as I'm concerned. MoN is the manager right now though and will have his way of managing training and selection which is exactly what he should do and is doing. The performances under him have improved, of that there is no doubt, but games like Cardiff away ( one example ) lead supporters to express dissatisfaction and that's no surprise. Hopefully MoN can balance these conflicting agendas effectively and steer us to safety.. after all that is his purpose in the job he's taken on. Have performances improved? Results have, which is good. Performances bar Barnsley and Luton (where we were still really not that great) have been pretty wretched.
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Post by foxysgloves on Dec 13, 2019 16:01:30 GMT
Seriously? Training doesn’t matter? So a manager who prioritises team spirit, togetherness and working as a collective.....should begin his tenure as manager by.....ignoring team spirit, togetherness and working as a collective and just pick players based on 90 minutes on a Saturday. Sounds a bit like what got us in this position in the first place. Another assumption. Every club has players who aren’t brilliant in training. Ricardo Fuller frequently failed to turn up on time for it. It doesn’t automatically follow that team spirit will implode. Again, look at the circumstances and tell me we can afford not to play two very good players who have played very well for us? You know what’s good for morale? Winning games. You know what gives you a good chance of doing that? Playing your best players. Have to agree to differ. I’d be all for fucking off anybody who doesn’t buy in to what the manager expects. He’s paid to make those decisions and he seems like the kind with the balls to do it.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 13, 2019 16:23:50 GMT
Another assumption. Every club has players who aren’t brilliant in training. Ricardo Fuller frequently failed to turn up on time for it. It doesn’t automatically follow that team spirit will implode. Again, look at the circumstances and tell me we can afford not to play two very good players who have played very well for us? You know what’s good for morale? Winning games. You know what gives you a good chance of doing that? Playing your best players. Have to agree to differ. I’d be all for fucking off anybody who doesn’t buy in to what the manager expects. He’s paid to make those decisions and he seems like the kind with the balls to do it. That’s great and all but: 1) There’s nothing to suggest that’s the case 2) It’s entirely possible the manager simply doesn’t rate them or thinks they’re off and doesn’t want to play them because he thinks they’ll leave, either of which is folly. 3) Playing without a proper DM with our defence is only going to end one way.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Dec 13, 2019 16:43:22 GMT
This seems to be a complicated situation. If both are not training well then the manager picking them on matchday will send out the wrong message to the rest of the players and potentially damage team spirit. MoN saying that an injury/illness is the reason they're not included is certainly not the way forward if the player involved disagrees publicly on Twitter, and that is a bad move as far as I'm concerned. MoN is the manager right now though and will have his way of managing training and selection which is exactly what he should do and is doing. The performances under him have improved, of that there is no doubt, but games like Cardiff away ( one example ) lead supporters to express dissatisfaction and that's no surprise. Hopefully MoN can balance these conflicting agendas effectively and steer us to safety.. after all that is his purpose in the job he's taken on. Have performances improved? Results have, which is good. Performances bar Barnsley and Luton (where we were still really not that great) have been pretty wretched. You called me out for not jumping on the "Jones Out" bandwagon and couldn't seem to accept my assessment that a change of manager would make little difference in the short/medium (and possibly long term) because the underlying problem was the inability of the players to function as a coherent unit. Are you saying I was right all along or simply swapping "O'Neil Out" for "Jones Out" in another futile and self destructive attempt to blame everything on the manager? Does your apparent inability to give O'Neil some slack stem from the fact that you were completely wrong about sacking Jones being the answer to everyone's prayers? Also the problem is the lack of teamwork - chucking your "best players" on the pitch (regardless of their commitment, fitness, and suitability for the formation) is rank amateurism and a sure fire way of ensuring we carry on playing as a bunch of directionless individuals rather than as an effective team. Thankfully O'Neil appears to get that - but then he's no armchair expert and actually knows what he's doing. For what it's worth I'm gobsmacked we managed to attract anyone half as good as O'Neil and I think he can actually turn things round - but I don't see any major improvements until Easter at the earliest given he depth of the problems. Hopefully there will still be time to save us from relegation which, if it does happen, will not be his fault.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Dec 13, 2019 16:55:02 GMT
Have to agree to differ. I’d be all for fucking off anybody who doesn’t buy in to what the manager expects. He’s paid to make those decisions and he seems like the kind with the balls to do it. That’s great and all but: 1) There’s nothing to suggest that’s the case 2) It’s entirely possible the manager simply doesn’t rate them or thinks they’re off and doesn’t want to play them because he thinks they’ll leave, either of which is folly. 3) Playing without a proper DM with our defence is only going to end one way. Michael O'Neil has said that Etebo has been short in training and he's partially explained the reasons behind Badou's inclusion. Granted his comments about younger players, runners and athleticism are seemingly at odds with his views on what he wants from his team as Badou and Etebo seem to offer those things. There is more evidence to suggest that their willingness to train hard and to take on board what O'Neil wants for them than there is to suggest that the manager simply doesn't rate them or won't play them because they'll be leaving. It is the managers call and he will live or die by those decisions. He sees them every day in training and he has to make the ultimate decision on how to cull this current squad which is long overdue culling. At the end of the day, I don't care who goes out of this current squad. I'd sell every last one of them if O'Neil could get in a replacement. The crux of this is that Foxysgloves is prepared to give the manager his trust and be supportive of any and all changes that he wishes to make whereas you clearly aren't. You are a sceptic, unsure of O'Neil's credentials and ability to undertake the massive job that he has on his hands and you are using his omission of Badou and Etebo, who you perceive to be our better players, to back up your views. I really don't care who he leaves out or ostracises. They are all shit and the sooner the vast majority of them are out of our club the better we will be for it.
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Post by foxysgloves on Dec 13, 2019 17:02:59 GMT
Have to agree to differ. I’d be all for fucking off anybody who doesn’t buy in to what the manager expects. He’s paid to make those decisions and he seems like the kind with the balls to do it. That’s great and all but: 1) There’s nothing to suggest that’s the case 2) It’s entirely possible the manager simply doesn’t rate them or thinks they’re off and doesn’t want to play them because he thinks they’ll leave, either of which is folly. 3) Playing without a proper DM with our defence is only going to end one way. 1) Apart from what the manager said re. Not training well. 2) It’s also entirely possible he rates them but hasn’t been impressed with their attitude to him/training/the club. 3) Agreed. I guess that was the job Cousins did adequately v Luton. So now it’s his shirt to lose.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 13, 2019 17:26:51 GMT
That’s great and all but: 1) There’s nothing to suggest that’s the case 2) It’s entirely possible the manager simply doesn’t rate them or thinks they’re off and doesn’t want to play them because he thinks they’ll leave, either of which is folly. 3) Playing without a proper DM with our defence is only going to end one way. 1) Apart from what the manager said re. Not training well. 2) It’s also entirely possible he rates them but hasn’t been impressed with their attitude to him/training/the club. 3) Agreed. I guess that was the job Cousins did adequately v Luton. So now it’s his shirt to lose. The manager didn’t mention Badou as far as training goes did he? And he didn’t say Etebo was training badly. My point is there’s very little to suggest any attitude issue. Jumping on a quote open to interpretation isn’t enough to come to that hypothesis. People are desperate for this manager to be the answer so have decided he must be in the right. They did it when Pulis moved Huth to right back then dropped him inexplicably. This is the same thing. Cousins is no Ndiaye. If he’s the plan for the rest of the season then we’re in trouble.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 13, 2019 17:30:05 GMT
That’s great and all but: 1) There’s nothing to suggest that’s the case 2) It’s entirely possible the manager simply doesn’t rate them or thinks they’re off and doesn’t want to play them because he thinks they’ll leave, either of which is folly. 3) Playing without a proper DM with our defence is only going to end one way. Michael O'Neil has said that Etebo has been short in training and he's partially explained the reasons behind Badou's inclusion. Granted his comments about younger players, runners and athleticism are seemingly at odds with his views on what he wants from his team as Badou and Etebo seem to offer those things. There is more evidence to suggest that their willingness to train hard and to take on board what O'Neil wants for them than there is to suggest that the manager simply doesn't rate them or won't play them because they'll be leaving. It is the managers call and he will live or die by those decisions. He sees them every day in training and he has to make the ultimate decision on how to cull this current squad which is long overdue culling. At the end of the day, I don't care who goes out of this current squad. I'd sell every last one of them if O'Neil could get in a replacement. The crux of this is that Foxysgloves is prepared to give the manager his trust and be supportive of any and all changes that he wishes to make whereas you clearly aren't. You are a sceptic, unsure of O'Neil's credentials and ability to undertake the massive job that he has on his hands and you are using his omission of Badou and Etebo, who you perceive to be our better players, to back up your views. I really don't care who he leaves out or ostracises. They are all shit and the sooner the vast majority of them are out of our club the better we will be for it. Bullshit Dave, there’s no need to have a set agenda on O’Neill either way this early and I don’t have one. I call it as I see it and give credit where I think it’s due and criticism/questioning when I think that’s true too. How has he ‘partially explained’ the Badou situation? All he’s said is he’s had flu. Before that he said he didn’t see him as a DM and he criticised his performance at Cardiff despite him being the best Stoke midfielder in that game.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 13, 2019 17:33:57 GMT
Have performances improved? Results have, which is good. Performances bar Barnsley and Luton (where we were still really not that great) have been pretty wretched. You called me out for not jumping on the "Jones Out" bandwagon and couldn't seem to accept my assessment that a change of manager would make little difference in the short/medium (and possibly long term) because the underlying problem was the inability of the players to function as a coherent unit. Are you saying I was right all along or simply swapping "O'Neil Out" for "Jones Out" in another futile and self destructive attempt to blame everything on the manager? Does your apparent inability to give O'Neil some slack stem from the fact that you were completely wrong about sacking Jones being the answer to everyone's prayers? Also the problem is the lack of teamwork - chucking your "best players" on the pitch (regardless of their commitment, fitness, and suitability for the formation) is rank amateurism and a sure fire way of ensuring we carry on playing as a bunch of directionless individuals rather than as an effective team. Thankfully O'Neil appears to get that - but then he's no armchair expert and actually knows what he's doing. For what it's worth I'm gobsmacked we managed to attract anyone half as good as O'Neil and I think he can actually turn things round - but I don't see any major improvements until Easter at the earliest given he depth of the problems. Hopefully there will still be time to save us from relegation which, if it does happen, will not be his fault. Christ where to start with this. No, I’m not saying you were right and I’m not saying O’Neill out. You’d have to reach massively to come to either of those conclusions from what I wrote. I agree you don’t play your ‘best players’ if they don’t fit into your system but both players clearly do. In Ndiaye’s case nobody else comes close to him at the base of midfield. What happened to your amazing theory that he wasn’t playing them because he’d got his team set and didn’t want to mess with it?
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Post by foxysgloves on Dec 13, 2019 17:52:36 GMT
1) Apart from what the manager said re. Not training well. 2) It’s also entirely possible he rates them but hasn’t been impressed with their attitude to him/training/the club. 3) Agreed. I guess that was the job Cousins did adequately v Luton. So now it’s his shirt to lose. The manager didn’t mention Badou as far as training goes did he? And he didn’t say Etebo was training badly. My point is there’s very little to suggest any attitude issue. Jumping on a quote open to interpretation isn’t enough to come to that hypothesis. People are desperate for this manager to be the answer so have decided he must be in the right. They did it when Pulis moved Huth to right back then dropped him inexplicably. This is the same thing. Cousins is no Ndiaye. If he’s the plan for the rest of the season then we’re in trouble. With all due respect I think O’Neill is probably a better judge of a professional footballer than you or I given that: a) he’s done pretty well as a football manager thus far b) he’s seen far more of the players in question than we have. Even given his short tenure. c) he’s had conversations with the players, interacted with them and seen them both on the pitch and off it, rather than watching them from the stands. On a different note, they’re decent players. But no more. Both at times look international class but are equally likely to go missing or be wasteful in possession. If we can shift them for a reasonable amount and get in the type of player that O’Neill seems able to field in his NI sides (hungry, dedicated, disciplined etc) then I’m all over it.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 13, 2019 17:59:12 GMT
The manager didn’t mention Badou as far as training goes did he? And he didn’t say Etebo was training badly. My point is there’s very little to suggest any attitude issue. Jumping on a quote open to interpretation isn’t enough to come to that hypothesis. People are desperate for this manager to be the answer so have decided he must be in the right. They did it when Pulis moved Huth to right back then dropped him inexplicably. This is the same thing. Cousins is no Ndiaye. If he’s the plan for the rest of the season then we’re in trouble. With all due respect I think O’Neill is probably a better judge of a professional footballer than you or I given that: a) he’s done pretty well as a football manager thus far b) he’s seen far more of the players in question than we have. Even given his short tenure. c) he’s had conversations with the players, interacted with them and seen them both on the pitch and off it, rather than watching them from the stands. On a different note, they’re decent players. But no more. Both at times look international class but are equally likely to go missing or be wasteful in possession. If we can shift them for a reasonable amount and get in the type of player that O’Neill seems able to field in his NI sides (hungry, dedicated, disciplined etc) then I’m all over it. That sounds a bit like the ‘how many caps have you got then’ argument Foxy - every manager sees more of the players than we do, can none of them be questioned? He seemed to think Clucas, Allen and Woods was a workable trio, that’s what I find worrying. Etebo and Ndiaye have been disciplined and dedicated when they’ve worn the shirt, I don’t get how they haven’t? It was always a possibility they’d be off in Jan but we’re not going to get a good fee if they’re out of the side. I don’t have a problem with them being sold, just with them being sidelined while we play inferior players and keep losing.
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Post by wakefieldstokie on Dec 13, 2019 18:20:18 GMT
No one knows. Get behind the manager. If Etebo and Ndiaye need to go then off they go.
If it means we get a left back, winger and striker then I’m happy. Etebo and Ndiaye Are good players but they’ve not been outstanding for us.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 13, 2019 18:22:35 GMT
No one knows. Get behind the manager. If Etebo and Ndiaye need to go then off they go. If it means we get a left back, winger and striker then I’m happy. Etebo and Ndiaye Are good players but they’ve not been outstanding for us. What would your best midfield be mate?
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Post by wakefieldstokie on Dec 13, 2019 18:25:58 GMT
No one knows. Get behind the manager. If Etebo and Ndiaye need to go then off they go. If it means we get a left back, winger and striker then I’m happy. Etebo and Ndiaye Are good players but they’ve not been outstanding for us. What would your best midfield be mate? Ronaldo - Scholes - Iniesta - Zidane 😜
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Post by wakefieldstokie on Dec 13, 2019 18:29:09 GMT
What would your best midfield be mate? Ronaldo - Scholes - Iniesta - Zidane 😜 I take your point, Badou holding would feature. But if we get the real problem areas in better shape: left back then do eet. Additionally Badou will be off soon, we all know he’s been playing for a transfer. Do we want uncommitted players long term?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 13, 2019 18:29:48 GMT
What would your best midfield be mate? Ronaldo - Scholes - Iniesta - Zidane 😜 Horrendously unbalanced
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 13, 2019 18:31:18 GMT
Ronaldo - Scholes - Iniesta - Zidane 😜 I take your point, Badou holding would feature. But if we get the real problem areas in better shape: left back then do eet. Additionally Badou will be off soon, we all know he’s been playing for a transfer. Do we want uncommitted players long term? He has been committed when he’s played though mate and we can get a better fee if he’s playing. We don’t have another DM bar Cousins, who has one a grand total of one good game for the club so far. DM will be a colossal problem area if he’s sold and not replaced.
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Post by Pugsley on Dec 13, 2019 18:40:28 GMT
This seems to be a complicated situation. If both are not training well then the manager picking them on matchday will send out the wrong message to the rest of the players and potentially damage team spirit. MoN saying that an injury/illness is the reason they're not included is certainly not the way forward if the player involved disagrees publicly on Twitter, and that is a bad move as far as I'm concerned. MoN is the manager right now though and will have his way of managing training and selection which is exactly what he should do and is doing. The performances under him have improved, of that there is no doubt, but games like Cardiff away ( one example ) lead supporters to express dissatisfaction and that's no surprise. Hopefully MoN can balance these conflicting agendas effectively and steer us to safety.. after all that is his purpose in the job he's taken on. Have performances improved? Results have, which is good. Performances bar Barnsley and Luton (where we were still really not that great) have been pretty wretched. Thought it was all about results when you're in the mire? How can any manager pick a player who he feels isn't committed to the cause? How can he trust him?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 13, 2019 18:42:20 GMT
Have performances improved? Results have, which is good. Performances bar Barnsley and Luton (where we were still really not that great) have been pretty wretched. Thought it was all about results when you're in the mire? How can any manager pick a player who he feels isn't committed to the cause? How can he trust him? Again, they have been committed to the cause when they’ve played?
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Post by Pugsley on Dec 13, 2019 18:44:09 GMT
Thought it was all about results when you're in the mire? How can any manager pick a player who he feels isn't committed to the cause? How can he trust him? Again, they have been committed to the cause when they’ve played? How can he trust him to be so every game? He'll down tools sooner rather than later when his move doesn't come off. Also, yes people are desperate for O'Neil to succeed, why wouldn't you be? Unless you've got a pre-conceived agenda...
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 13, 2019 18:52:45 GMT
Again, they have been committed to the cause when they’ve played? How can he trust him to be so every game? He'll down tools sooner rather than later when his move doesn't come off. Also, yes people are desperate for O'Neil to succeed, why wouldn't you be? Unless you've got a pre-conceived agenda... Let’s worry about that then? If he’s playing for a move great, he can drag us up the table until he gets it. Who are you going to play there instead? I’m desperate for O’Neill to succeed and my Machiavellian agenda is that I want Stoke City to not be relegated. Playing our best players tends to help with that sort of thing. I’m just not going to believe in unicorns and put blind faith into a manager again, especially after the last charlatan. Credit where it’s due but he’s not above being questioned.
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