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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Dec 5, 2019 10:59:01 GMT
Yes but we tried to get a better manager in Nathan, and then in MON.... Who hired Rowett? Who informed him who to sign? If we had zero plan and gave the guy an open check book, a manager who had never been promoted, then where to look for blame? The process is well documented, we are now reaping the rewards of it's incredible existence. All hail the process. The club is just shit and has been for a long long time. It's possible to think the process is shit and Rowett was shit as well. They're not mutually exclusive. Nobody 'informed him who to sign'. Unfortunately. Rowett's signings were some of the worst in the clubs history after spending more than any manager in championship history. I'm no Scholes or Coates fan but I refuse to accept the argument that the managers aren't given complete autonomy when it comes to signings. They are and both Rowett and Jones have monumentally fucked it through some absolutely wretched acquisitions. They were also given more than enough time to turn it around. Too much time I'd argue.
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Post by Davef on Dec 5, 2019 14:59:38 GMT
It's possible to think the process is shit and Rowett was shit as well. They're not mutually exclusive. Nobody 'informed him who to sign'. Unfortunately. Rowett's signings were some of the worst in the clubs history after spending more than any manager in championship history. I'm no Scholes or Coates fan but I refuse to accept the argument that the managers aren't given complete autonomy when it comes to signings. They are and both Rowett and Jones have monumentally fucked it through some absolutely wretched acquisitions. They were also given more than enough time to turn it around. Too much time I'd argue. I think it's reasonable to suggest that that both Vokes and Batth were lined up by Rowett before he was sacked as well. That's not to absolve Jones of any blame for the dross he's brought to the club.
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Post by jimmygscfc on Dec 5, 2019 15:06:47 GMT
Rowett's signings were some of the worst in the clubs history after spending more than any manager in championship history. I'm no Scholes or Coates fan but I refuse to accept the argument that the managers aren't given complete autonomy when it comes to signings. They are and both Rowett and Jones have monumentally fucked it through some absolutely wretched acquisitions. They were also given more than enough time to turn it around. Too much time I'd argue. I think it's reasonable to suggest that that both Vokes and Batth were lined up by Rowett before he was sacked as well. That's not to absolve Jones of any blame for the dross he's brought to the club. So with Rowett gone, who sanctioned their signing?
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Post by Davef on Dec 5, 2019 15:33:18 GMT
I think it's reasonable to suggest that that both Vokes and Batth were lined up by Rowett before he was sacked as well. That's not to absolve Jones of any blame for the dross he's brought to the club. So with Rowett gone, who sanctioned their signing? The owners, the chief executive and the new manager I presume. I do know that we were linked with both players while Rowett was still the manager.
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Post by citynickscfc on Dec 5, 2019 15:59:40 GMT
So with Rowett gone, who sanctioned their signing? The owners, the chief executive and the new manager I presume. I do know that we were linked with both players while Rowett was still the manager. The picture starts to become clear... Doesn't it? The process
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Post by sensiblestokie on Dec 5, 2019 16:15:21 GMT
I’d say another loss or two. We need to realise it’s the team that’s wank, I can’t see any manager being able to make this team perform how most of fans on this want to see. It can be both though can't it? The manager was as culpable for the Blackburn defeat as the players. Of course. But when the team can’t really perform for 4 managers including the caretaker then questions have got to be asked of the players. Jones had a great record at Luton, as did Rowett at Derby, MON could turn out to be great. But at what point can we agree that you or me could manage us and get the same results because either the players are just shit, or they at the very least think they are too good for this league. Which evidently they are not.
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Post by jimmygscfc on Dec 5, 2019 16:28:43 GMT
So with Rowett gone, who sanctioned their signing? The owners, the chief executive and the new manager I presume. I do know that we were linked with both players while Rowett was still the manager. So Jones was complicit then? Surely he could have vetoed it?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 5, 2019 16:42:41 GMT
It can be both though can't it? The manager was as culpable for the Blackburn defeat as the players. Of course. But when the team can’t really perform for 4 managers including the caretaker then questions have got to be asked of the players. Jones had a great record at Luton, as did Rowett at Derby, MON could turn out to be great. But at what point can we agree that you or me could manage us and get the same results because either the players are just shit, or they at the very least think they are too good for this league. Which evidently they are not. I think it's more complicated than that to be honest. Yes, we have a bunch of piss-weak losers who we probably need to clear the decks of entirely before things start to get better. It would be a start if the managers we appoint didn't keep adding more of them onto the pile or ostracising the few good players we do have though. Or making their team selections half-pissed, drawing names out of an aerialator.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 5, 2019 16:43:17 GMT
The owners, the chief executive and the new manager I presume. I do know that we were linked with both players while Rowett was still the manager. So Jones was complicit then? Surely he could have vetoed it? Jones himself said that January that he vetoed several signings.
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Post by jimmygscfc on Dec 5, 2019 17:13:23 GMT
So Jones was complicit then? Surely he could have vetoed it? Jones himself said that January that he vetoed several signings. Maybe, but not bloody Vokes and Batth.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 5, 2019 17:17:57 GMT
Jones himself said that January that he vetoed several signings. Maybe, but not bloody Vokes and Batth. Exactly. He signed off on them.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2019 21:52:34 GMT
Next five matches are defining. We will then be at the half way point. We ideally need at least 23 points by the end of Sheffield weds match. I feel if over the next 5 matches if we dont see motivated players, busting a gut to try and win . We might as well all go and watch the u23S. Good idea. It would at least give "all" a chance to make qualified opinions before ditching the boys. Why not do it even if we win all five and the next 23 too? Those players would be inspired by support, unlike some others...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2019 22:04:35 GMT
Rowett made us a worse team than we already were. I really don't think so. As I said, yes his signings were massively over priced but they kept us up didn't they? Who else should we rely on? Who would you have had instead of Ince (one of our better players last year) Were those players signed for £40M - and Rowett brought in - to keep us from being relegated? I would have sent Ince packing off to another club and started using Verlinden earlier, as soon as he was fit, and I'm confident he would have delivered. He's not a kid, you know, he's just short. And of course I would have used Bojan from the minute we started playing diamonds. I still believe he would kept Jones in the job. Instead Jones booted Bojan out of the club.
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Post by smallthorner on Dec 5, 2019 22:06:56 GMT
If he loses the next two games he's got to go ....
Surely.
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Post by sensiblestokie on Dec 5, 2019 22:33:06 GMT
Of course. But when the team can’t really perform for 4 managers including the caretaker then questions have got to be asked of the players. Jones had a great record at Luton, as did Rowett at Derby, MON could turn out to be great. But at what point can we agree that you or me could manage us and get the same results because either the players are just shit, or they at the very least think they are too good for this league. Which evidently they are not. I think it's more complicated than that to be honest. Yes, we have a bunch of piss-weak losers who we probably need to clear the decks of entirely before things start to get better. It would be a start if the managers we appoint didn't keep adding more of them onto the pile or ostracising the few good players we do have though. Or making their team selections half-pissed, drawing names out of an aerialator. Maybe. I think you’re over complicating it. Numerous managers with good, and different, pedigrees have failed here. But hopefully MON can do a bit of shopping and get some people in and out who suit him, and ultimately us!
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Post by figo85 on Dec 6, 2019 7:15:17 GMT
If he loses the next two games he's got to go .... Surely. You’re sacking a manager after 6/7 games ? Jesus Christ.
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Post by questionable on Dec 6, 2019 7:40:13 GMT
Regardless of who’s the figurehead managerial wise it’s been failure after failure of epic proportions.
It’s impossible for every manager to actually make us worse by some way, the boys club in the board room can give themselves a massive slap on the back thinking that the process is ticking away splendidly, whilst in reality Rome’s well and truly burning.
The pretender to the throne little Jon has well and truly failed and to think he actually gats paid for this is staggering.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 6, 2019 7:51:25 GMT
I think it's more complicated than that to be honest. Yes, we have a bunch of piss-weak losers who we probably need to clear the decks of entirely before things start to get better. It would be a start if the managers we appoint didn't keep adding more of them onto the pile or ostracising the few good players we do have though. Or making their team selections half-pissed, drawing names out of an aerialator. Maybe. I think you’re over complicating it. Numerous managers with good, and different, pedigrees have failed here. But hopefully MON can do a bit of shopping and get some people in and out who suit him, and ultimately us! Every one of them was a gamble to some degree though. And each of those managers made clear, unfathomable mistakes that can only be attributed to them. They’re not solely to blame, but they have to shoulder a lot of the blame. ‘The process’ is so broken that we’ve made rotten appointment after rotten appointment, but each sacked manager ultimately only has them self to blame.
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Post by hackworth on Dec 6, 2019 9:18:27 GMT
My neighbours are Wolves fans and cannot believe their luck when we signed Barrth. Surely our recruitment team must have a good look at his performance, pity they failed to notice he has the turning circle of my mums wardrobe.
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Post by sensiblestokie on Dec 6, 2019 11:42:44 GMT
Maybe. I think you’re over complicating it. Numerous managers with good, and different, pedigrees have failed here. But hopefully MON can do a bit of shopping and get some people in and out who suit him, and ultimately us! Every one of them was a gamble to some degree though. And each of those managers made clear, unfathomable mistakes that can only be attributed to them. They’re not solely to blame, but they have to shoulder a lot of the blame. ‘The process’ is so broken that we’ve made rotten appointment after rotten appointment, but each sacked manager ultimately only has them self to blame. I guess every manager is a gamble though. Sure, it’s got to be collective when attributing the blame to who deserves it at the club. Just something doesn’t feel right. You look at the squad and it’s better than most, if not all, in the league on paper. What is going wrong here? Do you think it’s managers tactics/ team selection? I agree when seeing the starting 11 over the past 4 managers it’s been concerning though, but I guess they see the players every day.
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Post by smallthorner on Dec 6, 2019 17:33:09 GMT
If he loses the next two games he's got to go .... Surely. You’re sacking a manager after 6/7 games ? Jesus Christ. If he loses the next two games he's got to go hasn't he.?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2019 17:43:10 GMT
You’re sacking a manager after 6/7 games ? Jesus Christ. If he loses the next two games he's got to go hasn't he.? Not sure if you're joking, we should absolutely not sack MON this season unless he does something completely unprofessional.
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Post by lordb on Dec 6, 2019 17:55:53 GMT
You’re sacking a manager after 6/7 games ? Jesus Christ. If he loses the next two games he's got to go hasn't he.? Jesus H Christ If this an attempt at humour try harder
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Dec 6, 2019 18:02:29 GMT
My neighbours are Wolves fans and cannot believe their luck when we signed Barrth. Surely our recruitment team must have a good look at his performance, pity they failed to notice he has the turning circle of my mums wardrobe. 25 times they watched him . That's the official process according to scholes. Hard to believe it really because the 25 times I've watched him since he signed for us he's been utter dog eggs.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Dec 6, 2019 18:06:12 GMT
You’re sacking a manager after 6/7 games ? Jesus Christ. If he loses the next two games he's got to go hasn't he.? I don't think so no. Anyone needs time to sort this shower out. Give him till the end of the season whether we go down or not we can then re assess. Another manager coming in after xmas is just going to make an already ridiculous situation even more ridiculous and it will mean certain relegation.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2019 18:13:32 GMT
If he loses the next two games he's got to go hasn't he.? Not sure if you're joking, we should absolutely not sack MON this season unless he does something completely unprofessional. It's called "trolling". He is still finding it so disappointing that Poolis didn't get the job, that he resorts to trolling.
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Post by thevoid on Dec 6, 2019 18:24:52 GMT
If he loses the next two games he's got to go .... Surely. Pulis isn't coming back. Get over it.
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Post by smallthorner on Dec 6, 2019 18:27:19 GMT
Not sure if you're joking, we should absolutely not sack MON this season unless he does something completely unprofessional. It's called "trolling". He is still finding it so disappointing that Poolis didn't get the job, that he resorts to trolling. No I'm being serious. If we lose to Hull and Luton at home then his position should be under review. Some folk on here saying that we've got to give him the season... even if we get relegated. Absolute crackpot thinking.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2019 18:28:25 GMT
It's called "trolling". He is still finding it so disappointing that Poolis didn't get the job, that he resorts to trolling. No I'm being serious. If we lose to Hull and Luton at home then his position should be under review. Some folk on here saying that we've got to give him the season... even if we get relegated. Absolute crackpot thinking. He has got this season, and next season.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 6, 2019 18:30:20 GMT
Every one of them was a gamble to some degree though. And each of those managers made clear, unfathomable mistakes that can only be attributed to them. They’re not solely to blame, but they have to shoulder a lot of the blame. ‘The process’ is so broken that we’ve made rotten appointment after rotten appointment, but each sacked manager ultimately only has them self to blame. I guess every manager is a gamble though. Sure, it’s got to be collective when attributing the blame to who deserves it at the club. Just something doesn’t feel right. You look at the squad and it’s better than most, if not all, in the league on paper. What is going wrong here? Do you think it’s managers tactics/ team selection? I agree when seeing the starting 11 over the past 4 managers it’s been concerning though, but I guess they see the players every day. Alan Ball would’ve seen the players every day though. Chris Kamara too. Bad judgement is bad judgement. I think managers and team selection have contributed to the mess, our mistake seems to have been repeatedly backing the wrong horse and giving them too much say.
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