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Woods
Jul 23, 2020 11:43:46 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2020 11:43:46 GMT
Someone will come along soon and mention that it's because he's on a different wavelength to the other players..... He's 26, not 17. That excuse doesn't wash over the age of 20... Is he 26 already? Best for all parties if he moves on then, hes getting old.......
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Woods
Jul 23, 2020 11:47:29 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2020 11:47:29 GMT
Perhaps our biggest problem is our dire financial situation leaves us without the threat of letting him rot in the reserves. We need him off our books to free up those wages, we have no bargaining power.
The only positive is when we have so few funds clubs in theory can't rinse us for fees as they know we can only pay so much. Whether that'll actually be a positive remains to be seen.
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Woods
Jul 23, 2020 12:24:37 GMT
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 23, 2020 12:24:37 GMT
What’s wrong with that? No, the killer is the lack of any movement ahead of him. Why move when the pass isn't going to come? That’s not been the issue though.
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Woods
Jul 23, 2020 12:36:55 GMT
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Jul 23, 2020 12:36:55 GMT
Good move for all concerned and especially for FFP
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 23, 2020 12:58:16 GMT
Good move for all concerned and especially for FFP Lazy arsedness from the CEO again.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2020 13:05:56 GMT
Good move for all concerned and especially for FFP Lazy arsedness from the CEO again. I’ll be disappointed if he leaves for nothing. He’s 26 and has played a lot for them, a team in our division. It’s pathetic really. I’m also disappointed to see him leave. He struggled for consistency (as did everyone) but if there’s a place for Thompson, then I don’t see why there wasn’t one before his arrival for Woods. Thompson is remarkably cheaper though I suppose and will probably be more hungry to prove something as a squad player.
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Post by markby on Jul 23, 2020 13:08:00 GMT
another loan ,why cant we ever sell a player I think it's because if you sell him for, say, £2m, that crystallise a loss on his contract in the books, which hurts your FFP immediately. (I suspect it was for accounting reasons that you initially signed him on loan in August 2018, with it not becoming permanent until Jan.2019 - a new accounting year?)
An accountant could explain it better, but I'm pretty sure it's why you've loaned out so many players this season. And you will proably continue to do so until their contracts have run down some more (or expired) or someone comes in with bids which give you back what you paid for them. And that latter ain't gonna happen.
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Post by Gary Hackett on Jul 23, 2020 13:09:01 GMT
Good move for all concerned and especially for FFP Lazy arsedness from the CEO again. Or maybe smart accounting
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Post by spiderpuss on Jul 23, 2020 13:13:17 GMT
It's the only option, Derby, Millwall et al cannot afford to buy him. Bournemouth, Villa, Leeds aren't knocking on the door for him. We shouldn't have paid so much for a relatively unproven midfielder should we?
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Woods
Jul 23, 2020 13:16:43 GMT
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Post by Gary Hackett on Jul 23, 2020 13:16:43 GMT
It's the only option, Derby, Millwall et al cannot afford to buy him. Bournemouth, Villa, Leeds aren't knocking on the door for him. We shouldn't have paid so much for a relatively unproven midfielder should we? There was another club interested in him when we signed him (can't remember which one) but that drove his price up.
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Woods
Jul 23, 2020 13:20:08 GMT
Post by markby on Jul 23, 2020 13:20:08 GMT
At the moment he's highly rated by a club whose record transfer fee paid is less than a million, and not many others. We can't magically make teams want to stump up £3m for him...... Maybe Brentford would want him back for half the fee we gave later in the summer as I think several of their players will be picked by bigger clubs. When Brentford signed Woods five years ago, it was for around £1m, which was a lot of money for the club back then.
But after making consistent profits on player sales in the intervening period (eg Woods himself), Bees are now signing players for £3-4m, who are only that "cheap" because they've flown under everyone elses radar.
So that while Woods was very good for the club back then, they're operating in a bigger market now.
And if they don't go up in the play-offs this time, my guess is that they'll sell another 2 or 3 players for maybe £40m in the summer, and then re-invest some of that in players costing £5-6m, who they reckon are actually worth £10m and who they can sell for a lot more than that after they've developed them for a season or two.
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Woods
Jul 23, 2020 13:26:35 GMT
Post by datguy on Jul 23, 2020 13:26:35 GMT
If they're paying all of his wages then he can go.
But why would they? They can't afford anything more than £1m on transfer fees so what's to say they'll be paying £20-25k on his wages.
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Woods
Jul 23, 2020 13:30:27 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2020 13:30:27 GMT
If they're paying all of his wages then he can go. But why would they? They can't afford anything more than £1m on transfer fees so what's to say they'll be paying £20-25k on his wages. Paying him £20k a week for 10 months is an £800k outlay which isn't that huge when they could then sign him on a free afterwards in theory.....
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Post by datguy on Jul 23, 2020 13:36:06 GMT
If they're paying all of his wages then he can go. But why would they? They can't afford anything more than £1m on transfer fees so what's to say they'll be paying £20-25k on his wages. Paying him £20k a week for 10 months is an £800k outlay which isn't that huge when they could then sign him on a free afterwards in theory..... In theory, yeah. But if I was to guess their highest paid player is probably on £10-12k. Woods would break that wage ceiling quite considerably and it's why I can imagine we'll be subsidising it.
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Woods
Jul 23, 2020 13:38:41 GMT
Post by markby on Jul 23, 2020 13:38:41 GMT
If they're paying all of his wages then he can go. But why would they? They can't afford anything more than £1m on transfer fees so what's to say they'll be paying £20-25k on his wages. Paying him £20k a week for 10 months is an £800k outlay which isn't that huge when they could then sign him on a free afterwards in theory.....Also, if they don't sign him, they have to sign/pay someone. And if the alternative is only earning £10k per week, that means Woods is still "only" costing an extra £400k - and that's before any subsidy from Stoke.
Which has to be worth it for a player who knows the club and manager, won't need time to settle in and is pretty much guaranteed to do the job he's asked to do. (With complete newcomers, you never know what you're gettig until they arrive, by which time it's too late to change your mind)
Clever move by Millwall, I'd say.
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Woods
Jul 23, 2020 13:48:46 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2020 13:48:46 GMT
Paying him £20k a week for 10 months is an £800k outlay which isn't that huge when they could then sign him on a free afterwards in theory..... In theory, yeah. But if I was to guess their highest paid player is probably on £10-12k. Woods would break that wage ceiling quite considerably and it's why I can imagine we'll be subsidising it. Doubt he'd be offered £20k a week if they signed him on a Bosman though. It would be £10/12k a week and unless he has the season of his life he won't command more from anywhere else. I think it's a good move for all parties if no one wants to stump up any cash for him.......
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obhstokie
Academy Starlet
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Posts: 230
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Post by obhstokie on Jul 23, 2020 13:52:26 GMT
The problem is that all these clubs we are dealing with, know the situation we are in. They know that we are desperate to get them off the wage books, so they will just say we are not interested in buying your player, but we will take some of his wages off you for a season
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Woods
Jul 23, 2020 13:55:14 GMT
Post by realstokebloke on Jul 23, 2020 13:55:14 GMT
Woods is a tidy player and, yes, it's a mystery what, exactly, happened to him here to me too. No he hasn't got the out and out physicality to boss a Championship MF, but he has the skill and, in the right side, has and will again look good.
Who knows MoN might want ano look at him here?
Probably best we parted however - he's got way too many detractors here now.
(Mind you, so did Josh T before last night, including me. What a fickle bunch we are.)
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Woods
Jul 23, 2020 14:00:28 GMT
Post by markby on Jul 23, 2020 14:00:28 GMT
Doubt he'd be offered £20k a week if they signed him on a Bosman though. It would be £10/12k a week and unless he has the season of his life he won't command more from anywhere else. But if he signed on a Bosman, he'd be able to negotiate a hefty signing on fee/loyalty bonus, which could take him nearer to £20k per week overall, without busting the club's pay structure, since he'd still "only" be on £10k per week
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Post by march4 on Jul 23, 2020 14:16:40 GMT
We don’t want him.
They pay his wages.
They give us a fee to borrow him.
If all of the above are true then it is a sound deal.
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Woods
Jul 23, 2020 14:25:03 GMT
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Post by chiswickpotter on Jul 23, 2020 14:25:03 GMT
Yes surely the strategy is that we push out all of our problems in the hope we win promotion and sort them there and then. Woods is probably a £2m charge plus wages next season so we cover his wages and get a contribution to the amortisation charge and move to the next on the list to move on. Presumably we wrote some of Badou and Wimmer values off in the relegation season so are getting closer to being able to deal - salary may be an issue with Wimmer
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Woods
Jul 23, 2020 14:27:01 GMT
Post by rickyfullerbeer on Jul 23, 2020 14:27:01 GMT
Ah, 'The Process'.
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Post by bringitondown on Jul 23, 2020 14:58:12 GMT
another loan ,why cant we ever sell a player I think it's because if you sell him for, say, £2m, that crystallise a loss on his contract in the books, which hurts your FFP immediately. (I suspect it was for accounting reasons that you initially signed him on loan in August 2018, with it not becoming permanent until Jan.2019 - a new accounting year?)
An accountant could explain it better, but I'm pretty sure it's why you've loaned out so many players this season. And you will proably continue to do so until their contracts have run down some more (or expired) or someone comes in with bids which give you back what you paid for them. And that latter ain't gonna happen.
Stoke's year end is 31st May so I don't think that's why. Spose you could argue for the loan you'd only have the wage expense hitting the P&L rather than both the wage expense and an extra 4 months of amortisation. I think we were rumoured to have paid £6.5m for Woods so if he's 2 out of the 3 years through his contract then that would leave his current book value at around £2.2m. Personally I can't see anyone wanting to pay £3m+ for him so loaning him out is the smart move, especially if we can get a loan fee.
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Woods
Jul 23, 2020 15:02:08 GMT
via mobile
Post by Championship Potter on Jul 23, 2020 15:02:08 GMT
More to the point, why are we paying £6.5m for a young player and then only giving them a 3 year contract?! Bizarrely It hasn’t worked out too badly for us but just seems daft to be signing a player for that much who can walk away for nothing in their prime years.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jul 23, 2020 15:05:03 GMT
More to the point, why are we paying £6.5m for a young player and then only giving them a 3 year contract?! Bizarrely It hasn’t worked out too badly for us but just seems daft to be signing a player for that much who can walk away for nothing in their prime years. I guess because we'd just been stung by giving out lengthy contracts to the likes of Imbula and Wimmer.
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Woods
Jul 23, 2020 15:11:03 GMT
Post by bringitondown on Jul 23, 2020 15:11:03 GMT
More to the point, why are we paying £6.5m for a young player and then only giving them a 3 year contract?! Bizarrely It hasn’t worked out too badly for us but just seems daft to be signing a player for that much who can walk away for nothing in their prime years. Possibly to match up with parachute payments. You take a larger hit on your amortisation charge in the first three years when it can be offset against the greater income
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Post by biglad180 on Jul 23, 2020 15:47:13 GMT
how come Millwall can offer £2 million for a wigan player yet get ours on another loan deal hope we are getting a good loan fee, we seem to be a soft touch
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Woods
Jul 23, 2020 15:56:17 GMT
via mobile
Post by Goonie on Jul 23, 2020 15:56:17 GMT
It's like our transfer/recruitment policy is the opposite of Chelsea's: sign young up and coming players and loan out at little no cost in the hope that they hit the big time
We pay over the odds for tired, waning players and fail to recoup the money but instead loan out to avoid a net loss re FFP
Sustainability in reverse!
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Woods
Jul 23, 2020 15:57:46 GMT
via mobile
lordb likes this
Post by thehartshillbadger on Jul 23, 2020 15:57:46 GMT
A good player he may be, but he’s not a good player for Stoke. Get rid
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Woods
Jul 23, 2020 16:11:37 GMT
Post by lordb on Jul 23, 2020 16:11:37 GMT
Why move when the pass isn't going to come? That’s not been the issue though. sarcasm aside (because obviously you need good movement up front) Woods unwillingness/lack of vision to play the quick early pass forward is one of the main things that puts me off him he's no Leigh Palin
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