borges
Academy Starlet
Posts: 104
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Post by borges on Oct 14, 2019 22:01:50 GMT
Oh, absolutely. I'm not suggesting it's justified or legitimate, just asking whether it would have been so prominent tonight had it not been such a big talking point in the build up to the game. The answer is likely yes. Ignoring civil rights abuses has never led to a reduction of their incidence, more just to a reduction of their reporting. Perhaps, but do you think that there could be a degree of contrarianism at play too? When the FA has asked fans not to boo national anthems, sing the 'Ten German Bombers' song or add the 'No Surrender' refrain to God Save the Queen, England fans have tended to ignore them and do so with more gusto next time out - might there be an element of that same obstinance behind the very vocal abuse dished out by elements of the crowd tonight? Again, not trying to say those things are equivalent to monkey chants, but I feel like the same mob mentality and 'us versus them' instincts are at play.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 14, 2019 22:05:04 GMT
Your explanation is crap though. It just shows an ignorance if anything? Ignorance? To who?.. Fuck me you've run up a cul-de-sac and twatted your head on the wall, repeatedly. You asked a stupid question any which way you try to dress it. 😂
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Post by Absolution on Oct 14, 2019 22:20:09 GMT
Raheem Sterling is becoming an icon, not just for his footballing abilities either. Exemplary tonight in every sense of the word, well done to all in the most difficult of circumstances. It’s a redemption of Beckham-like proportions. From hate figure/laughing stock to, as you say, icon, in just a couple of years or so. Everyone seems to gives Pep the credit for this. I’m sure he’s played a big part, but surely Sterling should now get greater credit for his own massive self-improvement.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2019 22:23:00 GMT
Ignorance? To who?.. Fuck me you've run up a cul-de-sac and twatted your head on the wall, repeatedly. You asked a stupid question any which way you try to dress it. 😂 "Why are they targeting Mings for abuse? It's a bit odd" Can you explain to me why it's a stupid question? If he was the only black English player/staff member I would agree, but he's not is he. If the racial abuse was targeted at Chris Powell would it have been a stupid question, of course not. There are answers to both. They might target Mings because it's his debut or because he saw a lot of the ball or both. They might have targeted Powell because he's closest to them. Etc etc for any player. The crass answer is "because he's black, obvs" which is exactly what you plucked for, giving an air of amusement to the racial abuse of black players, when it isn't really funny at all.
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Post by stokiekm on Oct 14, 2019 23:48:51 GMT
Ignorance? To who?.. Fuck me you've run up a cul-de-sac and twatted your head on the wall, repeatedly. You asked a stupid question any which way you try to dress it. 😂 you are a bit of a dick though aren't you? Reading your replies you now basically won't stop unless you get the last word. Same as way too many of your posts
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Post by GeneralFaye on Oct 15, 2019 5:20:07 GMT
Ignorance? To who?.. Fuck me you've run up a cul-de-sac and twatted your head on the wall, repeatedly. You asked a stupid question any which way you try to dress it. 😂 The fact you couldn't see what I was implying within my question is the stupid thing. Then trying to beat me down as stupid and ignorant due to your lack of understanding is hugely comical. But carry on thinking that I don't understand racism, absolute simpleton
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Post by lawrieleslie on Oct 15, 2019 5:58:12 GMT
Had the ref abandoned the game because of racism against English players, would England have been awarded the result? Just asking.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2019 6:15:53 GMT
I didn't watch the game, but did the racism stop after the game was stopped for the second time? following on the BBC text updates I was half expecting the game to be abandoned.
There is no place for this in football, Uefa need to respond with a serious punishment like a 2 year suspension from all international football, if they fail to act then they are effectively condoning it. There will likely always be some scumbags in the stands who do this or similar, but it's up to the country hosting the game to ensure they act quickly and the police at the stadium should be able to arrest the offenders long before the ref has to stop the game.
For me, once the ref decides the game it stopped then the players should leave the field and that should be that, going back on the pitch to continue sends the wrong message.
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Post by heworksardtho on Oct 15, 2019 6:57:26 GMT
Leaving the pitch would show the racists that they have won , and put the game of football back light years , what happened last night was the right decision, they all left when they were made to look a bunch of twats , the game continued
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Post by Roland the Thompson Gunner on Oct 15, 2019 7:31:28 GMT
If that’s all it was Dave I’d agree but according to reporters there racist abuse is being aimed at Mings and Sterling as well as these pricks The ironic thing here is those dicks don't seem to understand that if they woke up tomorrow and it was 1938 again they'd be amongst the first in the queues for the showers. Unfortunately you don't understand that Bulgaria were on Germany's side until 1944 and many Bulgarians joined the SS, so they were more likely to be policing the queues than joining them.
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Post by jeycov on Oct 15, 2019 7:33:45 GMT
If there were problems regarding racist comments in the warm up ( mentioned inTyrone MIngs interview), why was this not addressed at this time?
Also reports that an England fan died before the game - no reference to this , which may or may not be related to the situation at the game
No Bulgaria fans at their next games an immediate opportunity to avoid opportunities for similar disgraceful behaviour - longer term ban should be in place as a consequence imo
The comments by the Bulgarian coach needs to be highlighted and addressed - surely he was part of the discussion re announcement to fans, game stopped for a 2nd time
The Bulgarian police should have no problem identifying those concerned
Lots for UEFA to deal with and hopefully send out a clear message regarding punishments , fines, exclusion from future international football
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Post by raythesailor on Oct 15, 2019 7:39:41 GMT
UEFA should not mess about. A10yr ban from international football should send a message and set a precedent.
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Post by werrington on Oct 15, 2019 7:45:57 GMT
If there were problems regarding racist comments in the warm up ( mentioned inTyrone MIngs interview), why was this not addressed at this time? Also reports that an England fan died before the game - no reference to this , which may or may not be related to the situation at the game No Bulgaria fans at their next games an immediate opportunity to avoid opportunities for similar disgraceful behaviour - longer term ban should be in place as a consequence imo The comments by the Bulgarian coach needs to be highlighted and addressed - surely he was part of the discussion re announcement to fans, game stopped for a 2nd time The Bulgarian police should have no problem identifying those concerned Lots for UEFA to deal with and hopefully send out a clear message regarding punishments , fines, exclusion from future international football The death of the England fan was not connected to the match
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Post by stayingupfor GermanStokie on Oct 15, 2019 8:22:45 GMT
The ironic thing here is those dicks don't seem to understand that if they woke up tomorrow and it was 1938 again they'd be amongst the first in the queues for the showers. Unfortunately you don't understand that Bulgaria were on Germany's side until 1944 and many Bulgarians joined the SS, so they were more likely to be policing the queues than joining them. They were also some of the most fanatical fighters....
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2019 8:55:16 GMT
I think History can show us that with proper measures/sanctions/education etc racism can be diminished although not entirely eradicated.
On the 4th October 1980 Garth Crooks returned to Stoke City as an Spurs player. He endured some of the worse racist abuse I've ever witnessed at Stoke City (and I've seen a fair amount in the 70's/80's.) Banana's thrown on the pitch, monkey noises and racist chants. He left the pitch (i think he was subbed if my memory serves me right) almost in tears.
40 years on look how much has changed regarding racism in the English game. Don't get me wrong, its not eradicated, but it has improved beyond all recognition. Its just takes action not platitudes.
GD
P.S Can we stop that stupid IRA bollocks while we're at it !
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Oct 15, 2019 9:21:52 GMT
I think History can show us that with proper measures/sanctions/education etc racism can be diminished although not entirely eradicated. On the 4th October 1980 Garth Crooks returned to Stoke City as an Spurs player. He endured some of the worse racist abuse I've ever witnessed at Stoke City (and I've seen a fair amount in the 70's/80's.) Banana's thrown on the pitch, monkey noises and racist chants. He left the pitch (i think he was subbed if my memory serves me right) almost in tears. 40 years on look how much has changed regarding racism in the English game. Don't get me wrong, its not eradicated, but it has improved beyond all recognition. Its just takes action not platitudes. GD P.S Can we stop that stupid IRA bollocks while we're at it ! With poppy season upon us I wonder if the abuse McClean gets(rightly or wrongly) will be clamped down on🤔
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Post by JoeinOz on Oct 15, 2019 10:23:42 GMT
UEFA should not mess about. A10yr ban from international football should send a message and set a precedent. I agree firm action is required but a 10 year ban is too much.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2019 11:37:21 GMT
Im getting bored of all this racism in football. What can as I do as a spectator at home and I could not hear anything. It would seem now just even booing a player of bme characteristics is now racism.
As soon as the commentator started harping on about it I was getting bored, to the point where I could not have been bothered to watch the second half.
For the amount some of these International players earn, they know there is a high probability of racist abuse in some counteries, either mentally prepare for it or dont be available for selection. If racism does happen the UEFA can deal with it after and then suspend/ban the country for it.
All we are getting now is hysteria and detraction!
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Post by thevoid on Oct 15, 2019 11:38:38 GMT
Well last night proved that virtue signalling and hashtags won't stop racism in football. Perhaps it's time that points deductions were considered.
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Post by enuntio on Oct 15, 2019 11:43:39 GMT
National football associations should deal with football National governments should deal with the people. Banning a team because of the supporters behaviour is wrong
Banning the supporters is the way to go. Games behind closed doors and neutral venues.
Stopping verbal abuse will not be accomplished overnight and it isnt just an issue of skin colour. Different towns, different countries, different religions.
We all know what people are like. The haves, and the have nots.
We are a long way from Utopia.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2019 12:11:50 GMT
National football associations should deal with football National governments should deal with the people. Banning a team because of the supporters behaviour is wrong Banning the supporters is the way to go. Games behind closed doors and neutral venues. Stopping verbal abuse will not be accomplished overnight and it isnt just an issue of skin colour. Different towns, different countries, different religions. We all know what people are like. The haves, and the have nots. We are a long way from Utopia. Do you read Karl Marx by any chance?
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Post by meltonjohn on Oct 15, 2019 12:11:54 GMT
I think History can show us that with proper measures/sanctions/education etc racism can be diminished although not entirely eradicated. On the 4th October 1980 Garth Crooks returned to Stoke City as an Spurs player. He endured some of the worse racist abuse I've ever witnessed at Stoke City (and I've seen a fair amount in the 70's/80's.) Banana's thrown on the pitch, monkey noises and racist chants. He left the pitch (i think he was subbed if my memory serves me right) almost in tears. 40 years on look how much has changed regarding racism in the English game. Don't get me wrong, its not eradicated, but it has improved beyond all recognition. Its just takes action not platitudes. GD P.S Can we stop that stupid IRA bollocks while we're at it !
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Post by meltonjohn on Oct 15, 2019 12:13:14 GMT
The abuse Crooks got then and I suspect when growing up is no doubt why he never speaks fondly of his Stoke past!
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Post by adamsson on Oct 15, 2019 15:34:52 GMT
I think History can show us that with proper measures/sanctions/education etc racism can be diminished although not entirely eradicated. On the 4th October 1980 Garth Crooks returned to Stoke City as an Spurs player. He endured some of the worse racist abuse I've ever witnessed at Stoke City (and I've seen a fair amount in the 70's/80's.) Banana's thrown on the pitch, monkey noises and racist chants. He left the pitch (i think he was subbed if my memory serves me right) almost in tears. 40 years on look how much has changed regarding racism in the English game. Don't get me wrong, its not eradicated, but it has improved beyond all recognition. Its just takes action not platitudes. GD P.S Can we stop that stupid IRA bollocks while we're at it ! I suspect that racism stopped in English football because every team had black players. Abusing a player because he is black when your best players are black is obviously stupid. Making a big fuss and harsh punishments won't stop racism Bulgaria it will encourage a siege mentality and make things worse. Beat them on the pitch and laugh at them off it, Dani Alves eating a banana thrown at him was more effective than running to the referee.
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Post by enuntio on Oct 15, 2019 16:15:32 GMT
National football associations should deal with football National governments should deal with the people. Banning a team because of the supporters behaviour is wrong Banning the supporters is the way to go. Games behind closed doors and neutral venues. Stopping verbal abuse will not be accomplished overnight and it isnt just an issue of skin colour. Different towns, different countries, different religions. We all know what people are like. The haves, and the have nots. We are a long way from Utopia. Do you read Karl Marx by any chance? Close, but no cigar. "Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others." Groucho Marx ;-)
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 15, 2019 16:16:57 GMT
You asked a stupid question any which way you try to dress it. 😂 "Why are they targeting Mings for abuse? It's a bit odd" Can you explain to me why it's a stupid question? If he was the only black English player/staff member I would agree, but he's not is he. If the racial abuse was targeted at Chris Powell would it have been a stupid question, of course not. There are answers to both. They might target Mings because it's his debut or because he saw a lot of the ball or both. They might have targeted Powell because he's closest to them. Etc etc for any player. The crass answer is "because he's black, obvs" which is exactly what you plucked for, giving an air of amusement to the racial abuse of black players, when it isn't really funny at all. What bollocks. It’s not the crass answer, it’s the answer. Hence why it was a stupid bastard question.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 15, 2019 16:18:37 GMT
You asked a stupid question any which way you try to dress it. 😂 The fact you couldn't see what I was implying within my question is the stupid thing. Then trying to beat me down as stupid and ignorant due to your lack of understanding is hugely comical. But carry on thinking that I don't understand racism, absolute simpleton That’s clearly what happened though. To ask why they’re targeting one black player over another shows a lack of understanding over why they were doing it. It absolutely did not matter who it was other than their colour of the skin.
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Oct 15, 2019 17:19:51 GMT
UEFA wouldn't green light that - an unscrupulous team needing a 1-0 win would pull a fast one. England knew full well that if they followed the protocol they wouldn't be penalised and EUFA were perfectly happy give England the go ahead to walk off to finally demonstrate they would back a team prepared to make a stand. The whole thing was stage managed - and fair play to all concerned - apart from the racist knobheads. I know Wrighty isn't too happy with Greg Clarke but I think he's done a good thing. He has put the ball right in UEFAs court in respect of clarifying the protocols and what happens next. He's come out and publicly said why the "walk off" step wasn't introduced - it was because it wasn't "mass" racist chanting but isolated incidents. That means it was still happening and the officials were aware of it. What happens next sits with UEFA and how they punish Bulgaria and its troglodyte fans is the big step. I agree. I have been saying on the broadcast media today that I thought Greg Clarke's interview was very good. Clear, calm, and assertive. Until now we would have just had a meaningless fine and/or part ground closure imposed by UEFA. Now we have the new protocol being used, and the game could easily have been abandoned, were it not for the fact that the majority of the perpetrators decided to leave. I think that's progress, although I would have preferred them to be leaving in a police van. And it's not yet over. UEFA may well still impose further sanctions. I was very unhappy with Clive Tyldesley's comment in commentary that it was an "odd" choice of UEFA to have an Italian as the match delegate because they have had problems of this kind in Italy. The notion that because of that you cant have Italians in such roles is itself highly discriminatory nonsense. On that basis, there might be a severe shortage of candidates, because to a greater or lesser extent many countries experience this problem. We still do, at all levels of the game from grassroots abuse up to the John Terry case, albeit thankfully to a much less extent than in the past.
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Post by mattador78 on Oct 15, 2019 18:27:50 GMT
England also charged by UEFA for fans disrespecting the national anthem of Bulgaria 👍
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Post by mickmillslovechild on Oct 15, 2019 18:31:24 GMT
England also charged by UEFA for fans disrespecting the national anthem of Bulgaria 👍 That's fair enough. It's a rule they've also broken. Just because of what happened later with the Bulgarian fans shouldn't mean our lot are just let off for anything they do.
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