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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Oct 12, 2019 15:27:04 GMT
Southgate and the media myth about these players exposed again that sancho should be considered to wear the number 10 for England is an insult to the great players before him who wore that shirt him utterly disgraceful , media gloss of Southgate exposed as having consistent football management failure behind it in smythin* other than @ flat track bully game . Sancho is absolute quality, he’s proved it at club level and will prove it at international level. At 19 he’ll only get better. He had fuck all to work with last night. The problems came all from defence and the holding midfielders. What on earth has he proved at club level he needs to do two years learning. His trade not catapulted to super stardom off the back of promise
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Oct 12, 2019 15:33:46 GMT
Sancho is absolute quality, he’s proved it at club level and will prove it at international level. At 19 he’ll only get better. He had fuck all to work with last night. The problems came all from defence and the holding midfielders. What on earth has he proved at club level he needs to do two years learning. His trade not catapulted to super stardom off the back of promise Bundesliga team of the season 18-19, youngest Dortmund player to score ten in a season, contributed in goals and assists 26 goals in 34 games all before the age of 20. This season he’s scored 3 and assisted 6 in 7 games. He’s a raw talent, but he’s in that side by merit, no one in any European league has more assists than him since the start of 18/19. Who else matches those performances at club level? He’s the reason so many English lads are now trying their hand in Germany because they give young players the opportunity. He’s grabbed it with both hands. He’s one of the highest rated player in the Bundesliga and his recent contract extension proves that. He’s not some starlet who has played about 4 senior games.
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Post by spitthedog on Oct 12, 2019 15:36:08 GMT
The arrogance and sense of entitlement of the English is unsurpassed. They've been getting ahead of themselves recently because of a bit of decent run.
But England still have a very small pool of players to choose from, some vastly overrated and some with potential only and little experience, so a result and performance like this should be expected.
But the English don't think like that. Always think they should be Cream of the Crop.
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Post by TrentValePotter96 on Oct 12, 2019 15:50:17 GMT
Sancho is absolute quality, he’s proved it at club level and will prove it at international level. At 19 he’ll only get better. He had fuck all to work with last night. The problems came all from defence and the holding midfielders. What on earth has he proved at club level he needs to do two years learning. His trade not catapulted to super stardom off the back of promise What he has done at Dortmund earns him a start for england. International football isn't on some extra pedestal
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Post by tony1234 on Oct 12, 2019 16:27:05 GMT
Basically we are a thick team Fast, yes. Technically capable, not exceptional but better than we were. But thick, the erstwhile constant.... Better nations with better players and good coaches can still suss out our game and then slowly take command of games. Croatia (WC) - start better & lead, end up well beaten Spain (Nations league, h) - start better & lead, end up well beaten Spain (Nations League, a) - start by surging into a 3-0 lead, but are left hanging on as the Spanish dominate. Holland (Nations League) - start well, 1-1 at HT, end up well beaten Czech Rep (Euro) - start better and lead, end up well beaten Their first touch was much better than ours, Tone, and the same goes for the examples you highlighted. We don't play to our strengths, which in my opinion are pace and athleticism. We rarely seem ready to receive the ball and are constantly on the back foot. Very true... but that would be intelligent!! :-)
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Post by callas12 on Oct 12, 2019 16:33:15 GMT
Think people in the media are starting to realise that England are not as good as some people have had us believe. Gareth Southgate is so over-hyped too.. Despite this amazing World Cup we were meant to have had last summer, I still find it ironic that we returned as a 4th place team but still managed to lose 3x games during the tournament! We really lack a squad talisman in the Robson, Gazza, Lineker, Shearer, Beckham, Gerrard mold & am really not as convinced we're on the verge of dominating world football as people have been predicting. Granted Sterling is a great player for his club but not so sure he's creating the same waves on the International scene. & Kane just doesnt come across as the next potential Shearer or Lineker to me.. all but 2 of those players you mentioned didn’t even reach the level some of these lads did last summer with England. We need what we have always needed, a midfield general who can dictate play and not get pulled too high up, or get stuck in the mud like Henderson and Rice did. You mention the level we reached last summer, a 4th place finish with 3x defeats which included wins against Tunisa and Panama, If that team last summer were any good they'd of at least made the final, I really dont think we'll get a kinder run of fixtures in an international tournament again. I real fail to see last summer as an achievement in real terms, losing to Belgium twice in the process, a team we should at least be on a par with if not better if ever to win anything else on the International stage. Answer me this, would any of our current crop of players make the squad from the era's of the players I've mentioned? I very much doubt it. Sterling at a push maybe. Would any of Robson, Gazza, Lineker, Shearer, Beckham or Gerrard of made the starting 11 last night if they were fit over our current team, you bet they would of!
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Post by zerps on Oct 12, 2019 16:50:45 GMT
The arrogance and sense of entitlement of the English is unsurpassed. They've been getting ahead of themselves recently because of a bit of decent run. But England still have a very small pool of players to choose from, some vastly overrated and some with potential only and little experience, so a result and performance like this should be expected. But the English don't think like that. Always think they should be Cream of the Crop. We are fucking ace though, aren’t we.....
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Oct 12, 2019 20:15:57 GMT
What on earth has he proved at club level he needs to do two years learning. His trade not catapulted to super stardom off the back of promise What he has done at Dortmund earns him a start for england. International football isn't on some extra pedestal He’s done nothing to suggest he should be England’s number 10:
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Post by waffles on Oct 12, 2019 20:38:30 GMT
At least we didn't wait until meeting a decent team to lose, it's the hope that kills you.
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Post by mickmillslovechild on Oct 12, 2019 21:08:04 GMT
Well, as disappointing as England were, at least benji isn't disappointing us all and has been consistent as ever by talking shit yet again
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Post by potterspele on Oct 12, 2019 21:24:25 GMT
What he has done at Dortmund earns him a start for england. International football isn't on some extra pedestal He’s done nothing to suggest he should be England’s number 10: Who has then? If not Sancho then who should be playing there? Do you want the team to be picked on form or reputation because no English player is in better form than Sancho.
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Oct 12, 2019 21:42:43 GMT
What he has done at Dortmund earns him a start for england. International football isn't on some extra pedestal He’s done nothing to suggest he should be England’s number 10: Who else plays there based on merit this season and last? He’s literally been one of Dortmund’s best players and one of the best in the League as his place in the team of the year shows.
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Post by JoeinOz on Oct 12, 2019 22:12:13 GMT
The arrogance and sense of entitlement of the English is unsurpassed. They've been getting ahead of themselves recently because of a bit of decent run. But England still have a very small pool of players to choose from, some vastly overrated and some with potential only and little experience, so a result and performance like this should be expected. But the English don't think like that. Always think they should be Cream of the Crop. Agree. There;s this inane crap spouted by the skyboys about the Premier League being the best in the world... and people fall for it.
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Post by sportsman on Oct 12, 2019 22:33:26 GMT
Like I said earlier, when England were playing well our top players were bang in form and so were their clubs. Spurs players out of form, even citeh aren't playing like they were, pickford and Keane Everton, you could go on.
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Post by mickmillslovechild on Oct 12, 2019 22:37:56 GMT
He’s done nothing to suggest he should be England’s number 10: Who else plays there based on merit this season and last? He’s literally been one of Dortmund’s best players and one of the best in the League as his place in the team of the year shows.
What he means is that he doesn't really know anything about Sancho because he doesn't play in the Prem so benji therefore doesn't get to see him on MOTD every week..he therefore presumed no-one else knows much about him either, so he could get away with saying he's shit. A bit like one of those moments when you're pissed with your mates and say "Is it just me or does everyone else think [x, y or z]" expecting everyone to laugh, but in reality there's a tumbleweed and they all say "Erm, no mate that's just you" and you feel like a tit for saying it out loud kinda thing.
I think i kinda preferred it when benj stuck to his usual copy and paste about our CEO that he puts on every fucking thread, as this kind of stuff is embarrassing and just makes him look a completely clueless fool....oh, hang on!
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Post by JoeinOz on Oct 12, 2019 22:59:59 GMT
Who else plays there based on merit this season and last? He’s literally been one of Dortmund’s best players and one of the best in the League as his place in the team of the year shows. What he means is that he doesn't really know anything about Sancho because he doesn't play in the Prem so benji therefore doesn't get to see him on MOTD every week..he therefore presumed no-one else knows much about him either, so he could get away with saying he's shit. A bit like one of those moments when you're pissed with your mates and say "Is it just me or does everyone else think [x, y or z]" expecting everyone to laugh, but in reality there's a tumbleweed and they all say "Erm, no mate that's just you" and you feel like a tit for saying it out loud kinda thing. I think i kinda preferred it when benj stuck to his usual copy and paste about our CEO that he puts on every fucking thread, as this kind of stuff is embarrassing and just makes him look a completely clueless fool....oh, hang on!
it's part of the thing I refer to elsewhere on this thread. There's the idea football begins and ends with the Prem and that's that. The same ignorance that led to the skyboys suggesting Tripper was making a mistake going to Atletico Madrid because he'll out of the spotlight and forgotten and overlooked. Atletico Madrid out of the spotlight. Thick pricks. Anyway, it's this closed mind mentality that's damaging to the England team.
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Post by JoeinOz on Oct 13, 2019 1:29:33 GMT
yep but Dave - he was one of his blue eyed boys in previous years, some England players seemed to have have played over and over, whilst being crap for their clubs because 'they looked nice ' Jack --- 'looks nice' of that we can agree and being honest, any excuse to ridicule and decry the England set up and in particular the FA, will do me --- just fine HAPPEN - I just enjoyed Roy Keane Taking down Ian Wright in the studio for talking shit too love it - when the fart in the room is actually, exposed . for what it is So despite it being abundantly clear Buto is currently unpickable you think he should be picked?
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Oct 13, 2019 6:44:08 GMT
Basically we are a thick team Fast, yes. Technically capable, not exceptional but better than we were. But thick, the erstwhile constant.... Better nations with better players and good coaches can still suss out our game and then slowly take command of games. Croatia (WC) - start better & lead, end up well beaten Spain (Nations league, h) - start better & lead, end up well beaten Spain (Nations League, a) - start by surging into a 3-0 lead, but are left hanging on as the Spanish dominate. Holland (Nations League) - start well, 1-1 at HT, end up well beaten Czech Rep (Euro) - start better and lead, end up well beaten I agree with most of what you say Tony but in the nations league, at Spain we went 3-0 up, in the second half we should have had a penalty and they should have had a man sent off, we should have been 4-0 or 5-0 up then we sat in deep. Going into injury time we had a clear two goal margin so the plan worked. Against Netherlands we chucked their goals into our net. The winning goal that we had just before 90 minutes shouldn't have been ruled offside by VAR. You are right though, we are thick. But I think it really comes down to the fact that in England we don't realise that three best way to organise a midfield, and protect our defence, is to have midfielders who can receive the ball with a man on them, and keep the ball. All the attacks that holland had against us in three nations league came from us giving up possession in bad situations. Same with the czechs. They are a piss poor team and just pressed us high up and we kept giving it to them. Someone else here said we have hardly any players to choose from but I think things are improving there. In attack we are up there with the best. We have defenders like gomez, alexander-arnold, timori coming through. We need to change the type of midfielder we select. Southgate and all previous managers select people like henderson or rice and tell them to sit in, thinking that is the way to tighten things up. But those midfielders don't get on the ball in that situation and you hand the game to the opposition at international level, even the czechs. He should be picking Winks, he's the best ball player we have and takes the ball in all situations. He needs to integrate Madison at the front of the midfield three, with Winks and another behind. The other midfielder in that three would probably be either Rice or Henderson, though I like Choudhury from Leicester. Its the midfield we want to sort out. Even Roy Keane said, it should be easy playing in our midfield behind our attackers. If we can just get a slightly better foothold in the midfield we will tear teams apart. Like we did against Spain. Since that Spain game we've not played that midfield again
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Oct 13, 2019 10:57:00 GMT
Basically we are a thick team Fast, yes. Technically capable, not exceptional but better than we were. But thick, the erstwhile constant.... Better nations with better players and good coaches can still suss out our game and then slowly take command of games. Croatia (WC) - start better & lead, end up well beaten Spain (Nations league, h) - start better & lead, end up well beaten Spain (Nations League, a) - start by surging into a 3-0 lead, but are left hanging on as the Spanish dominate. Holland (Nations League) - start well, 1-1 at HT, end up well beaten Czech Rep (Euro) - start better and lead, end up well beaten I agree with most of what you say Tony but in the nations league, at Spain we went 3-0 up, in the second half we should have had a penalty and they should have had a man sent off, we should have been 4-0 or 5-0 up then we sat in deep. Going into injury time we had a clear two goal margin so the plan worked. Against Netherlands we chucked their goals into our net. The winning goal that we had just before 90 minutes shouldn't have been ruled offside by VAR. You are right though, we are thick. But I think it really comes down to the fact that in England we don't realise that three best way to organise a midfield, and protect our defence, is to have midfielders who can receive the ball with a man on them, and keep the ball. All the attacks that holland had against us in three nations league came from us giving up possession in bad situations. Same with the czechs. They are a piss poor team and just pressed us high up and we kept giving it to them. Someone else here said we have hardly any players to choose from but I think things are improving there. In attack we are up there with the best. We have defenders like gomez, alexander-arnold, timori coming through. We need to change the type of midfielder we select. Southgate and all previous managers select people like henderson or rice and tell them to sit in, thinking that is the way to tighten things up. But those midfielders don't get on the ball in that situation and you hand the game to the opposition at international level, even the czechs. He should be picking Winks, he's the best ball player we have and takes the ball in all situations. He needs to integrate Madison at the front of the midfield three, with Winks and another behind. The other midfielder in that three would probably be either Rice or Henderson, though I like Choudhury from Leicester. Its the midfield we want to sort out. Even Roy Keane said, it should be easy playing in our midfield behind our attackers. If we can just get a slightly better foothold in the midfield we will tear teams apart. Like we did against Spain. Since that Spain game we've not played that midfield again Winks not playing is massive, most successful nations use that player who just ticks things over if nothing else. Rice looks so flustered on the ball. I’ll keep banging the Phil Foden drum, his progression could make our break this side because he will not get a better apprenticeship than one under Pep, if Pep hangs around. It’s just a matter of when he takes over from David Silva. Which for England’s sake is hopefully sooner rather than later.
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Oct 13, 2019 10:58:01 GMT
What he means is that he doesn't really know anything about Sancho because he doesn't play in the Prem so benji therefore doesn't get to see him on MOTD every week..he therefore presumed no-one else knows much about him either, so he could get away with saying he's shit. A bit like one of those moments when you're pissed with your mates and say "Is it just me or does everyone else think [x, y or z]" expecting everyone to laugh, but in reality there's a tumbleweed and they all say "Erm, no mate that's just you" and you feel like a tit for saying it out loud kinda thing. I think i kinda preferred it when benj stuck to his usual copy and paste about our CEO that he puts on every fucking thread, as this kind of stuff is embarrassing and just makes him look a completely clueless fool....oh, hang on!
it's part of the thing I refer to elsewhere on this thread. There's the idea football begins and ends with the Prem and that's that. The same ignorance that led to the skyboys suggesting Tripper was making a mistake going to Atletico Madrid because he'll out of the spotlight and forgotten and overlooked. Atletico Madrid out of the spotlight. Thick pricks. Anyway, it's this closed mind mentality that's damaging to the England team. Lots of English lads are now following Sancho’s example, hope it broadens their experience as players and people.
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Post by JoeinOz on Oct 13, 2019 11:12:39 GMT
it's part of the thing I refer to elsewhere on this thread. There's the idea football begins and ends with the Prem and that's that. The same ignorance that led to the skyboys suggesting Tripper was making a mistake going to Atletico Madrid because he'll out of the spotlight and forgotten and overlooked. Atletico Madrid out of the spotlight. Thick pricks. Anyway, it's this closed mind mentality that's damaging to the England team. Lots of English lads are now following Sancho’s example, hope it broadens their experience as players and people. Agreed.
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Post by stayingupfor GermanStokie on Oct 13, 2019 11:18:43 GMT
Sancho is absolute quality, he’s proved it at club level and will prove it at international level. At 19 he’ll only get better. He had fuck all to work with last night. The problems came all from defence and the holding midfielders. What on earth has he proved at club level he needs to do two years learning. His trade not catapulted to super stardom off the back of promise Wow.... I don’t like BVB (being an FC Bayern fan) but to say he has done nothing at club level is nothing short of ignorance... he is a class player and quite rightly deserves the plaudits he is receiving.
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Oct 13, 2019 11:54:01 GMT
I agree with most of what you say Tony but in the nations league, at Spain we went 3-0 up, in the second half we should have had a penalty and they should have had a man sent off, we should have been 4-0 or 5-0 up then we sat in deep. Going into injury time we had a clear two goal margin so the plan worked. Against Netherlands we chucked their goals into our net. The winning goal that we had just before 90 minutes shouldn't have been ruled offside by VAR. You are right though, we are thick. But I think it really comes down to the fact that in England we don't realise that three best way to organise a midfield, and protect our defence, is to have midfielders who can receive the ball with a man on them, and keep the ball. All the attacks that holland had against us in three nations league came from us giving up possession in bad situations. Same with the czechs. They are a piss poor team and just pressed us high up and we kept giving it to them. Someone else here said we have hardly any players to choose from but I think things are improving there. In attack we are up there with the best. We have defenders like gomez, alexander-arnold, timori coming through. We need to change the type of midfielder we select. Southgate and all previous managers select people like henderson or rice and tell them to sit in, thinking that is the way to tighten things up. But those midfielders don't get on the ball in that situation and you hand the game to the opposition at international level, even the czechs. He should be picking Winks, he's the best ball player we have and takes the ball in all situations. He needs to integrate Madison at the front of the midfield three, with Winks and another behind. The other midfielder in that three would probably be either Rice or Henderson, though I like Choudhury from Leicester. Its the midfield we want to sort out. Even Roy Keane said, it should be easy playing in our midfield behind our attackers. If we can just get a slightly better foothold in the midfield we will tear teams apart. Like we did against Spain. Since that Spain game we've not played that midfield again Winks not playing is massive, most successful nations use that player who just ticks things over if nothing else. Rice looks so flustered on the ball. I’ll keep banging the Phil Foden drum, his progression could make our break this side because he will not get a better apprenticeship than one under Pep, if Pep hangs around. It’s just a matter of when he takes over from David Silva. Which for England’s sake is hopefully sooner rather than later. Good shout on Foden.he probably needs to move elsewhere. I'll tell you who should have been a deeper lying midfielder, good in possession, keeping things ticking over, Dele Ali. That was the player he always should have been
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Post by dreamtheater on Oct 13, 2019 11:56:02 GMT
Joe in oz - My answer to your question about Buto being dropped or not is, something like this
Its chicken and egg to me -IF Southgate had took him to one side and said - 'listen Jack you are the future - long term' -
No matter you are playing in the championship and, even if your form is off - we will keep an eye out and, look after you.
That wouldve been responsible and proper man management
As it was, Southgate ( bent nosed bastard that he is) had told him in no uncertain terms, he needed to be in playing the premiership to keep his place in the England squad.
That had been widely reported last summer and is seen as accurate.
My take - snobbish elitest and Unsettling in the extreme to a young ambitous lad like Butland - atrocious even,
I think therefore that Southgate and what he represents is at least in part, culpable, for Jacks career destroying more recent form - therefore I will treat Southgate and the arrogance and elitest mentality that he and The FA / England set up possess ,with even more contempt than usual thank you very much.
They are an utterly shit corrupted snobbish outfit undeserving of the sometimes mindless blind support they get IMHO.
And they deserve ridicule every step of the way and its costing Stoke City too
So they can go f*** themselves
In fact right now, they have one single player actually playing at world class level right now (Raheen Sterling)
the rest to my eyes
totally and utterly gash
SO
Would I have dropped him too ? answer is yes but, England are in part culpable for messing with his head last summer
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Post by berahinosgoals on Oct 13, 2019 15:18:48 GMT
Don't follow England now unless it's the world cup or euros and strangely I don't care how far they get in them either
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Post by kustokie on Oct 13, 2019 16:07:01 GMT
What he has done at Dortmund earns him a start for england. International football isn't on some extra pedestal He’s done nothing to suggest he should be England’s number 10: All the top Champions League teams would slaughter England because they can pick from the best of the best. National teams are a lot more limited in their choices. Maybe Southgate knows something we don’t. Can’t really argue with his last WC performance which exceeded everyone’s expectations.
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Post by tony1234 on Oct 13, 2019 16:33:36 GMT
Basically we are a thick team Fast, yes. Technically capable, not exceptional but better than we were. But thick, the erstwhile constant.... Better nations with better players and good coaches can still suss out our game and then slowly take command of games. Croatia (WC) - start better & lead, end up well beaten Spain (Nations league, h) - start better & lead, end up well beaten Spain (Nations League, a) - start by surging into a 3-0 lead, but are left hanging on as the Spanish dominate. Holland (Nations League) - start well, 1-1 at HT, end up well beaten Czech Rep (Euro) - start better and lead, end up well beaten I agree with most of what you say Tony but in the nations league, at Spain we went 3-0 up, in the second half we should have had a penalty and they should have had a man sent off, we should have been 4-0 or 5-0 up then we sat in deep. Going into injury time we had a clear two goal margin so the plan worked. Against Netherlands we chucked their goals into our net. The winning goal that we had just before 90 minutes shouldn't have been ruled offside by VAR. You are right though, we are thick. But I think it really comes down to the fact that in England we don't realise that three best way to organise a midfield, and protect our defence, is to have midfielders who can receive the ball with a man on them, and keep the ball. All the attacks that holland had against us in three nations league came from us giving up possession in bad situations. Same with the czechs. They are a piss poor team and just pressed us high up and we kept giving it to them. Someone else here said we have hardly any players to choose from but I think things are improving there. In attack we are up there with the best. We have defenders like gomez, alexander-arnold, timori coming through. We need to change the type of midfielder we select. Southgate and all previous managers select people like henderson or rice and tell them to sit in, thinking that is the way to tighten things up. But those midfielders don't get on the ball in that situation and you hand the game to the opposition at international level, even the czechs. He should be picking Winks, he's the best ball player we have and takes the ball in all situations. He needs to integrate Madison at the front of the midfield three, with Winks and another behind. The other midfielder in that three would probably be either Rice or Henderson, though I like Choudhury from Leicester. Its the midfield we want to sort out. Even Roy Keane said, it should be easy playing in our midfield behind our attackers. If we can just get a slightly better foothold in the midfield we will tear teams apart. Like we did against Spain. Since that Spain game we've not played that midfield again Agree - excellent points, Great build on my somewhat blunt appraisal. I read a good book recently called The Range. It was all about how breadth of experience actually trumps the 10k hours of practice for many of the most very successful people. So Tiger Woods vs Federer for instance. Woods was typical child protege where Daddy had him playing golf from aged 4 and against pros from age 10 etc. Federer was skating, playing ping pong, football etc all until he was 14 - then he got more into tennis. Woods peaked, crashed and burned. Federer peaked and was at the top for 10+ years. When Germany won the 2014 WC, the point was made that their team had only played the same number of minutes up until they were 22yrs old as average amateur players of the same age: in other words they'd been trained more broadly. There were other examples including chess champions etc, but the point was, the intelligent people given wider experience - within reason - learn how to better navigate all sorts of different situations and be more likely to be the most successful overall. Those trained by rote can get so far - they can peak - but suffer a sort of myopia which makes them prone to failing at the last hurdle or crash and burn when situations change. As a cricket fan, I can remember the story of Bradman - his dodgy eyesight and practicing cricket and also hitting ping pong balls with a stump to replicate facing erratic deliveries. Not sure if that's the same with our England teams - as well as the great points you make, which are spot on, about how to set up, about intelligence. I agree our front 3 are excellent in terms of "capability" ....Whether there isn't something whereby they just can't think their way out of box against cleverer opposition.
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Post by lordb on Oct 13, 2019 18:40:02 GMT
Joe in oz - My answer to your question about Buto being dropped or not is, something like this Its chicken and egg to me -IF Southgate had took him to one side and said - 'listen Jack you are the future - long term' - No matter you are playing in the championship and, even if your form is off - we will keep an eye out and, look after you. That wouldve been responsible and proper man management As it was, Southgate ( bent nosed bastard that he is) had told him in no uncertain terms, he needed to be in playing the premiership to keep his place in the England squad. That had been widely reported last summer and is seen as accurate. My take - snobbish elitest and Unsettling in the extreme to a young ambitous lad like Butland - atrocious even, I think therefore that Southgate and what he represents is at least in part, culpable, for Jacks career destroying more recent form - therefore I will treat Southgate and the arrogance and elitest mentality that he and The FA / England set up possess ,with even more contempt than usual thank you very much. They are an utterly shit corrupted snobbish outfit undeserving of the sometimes mindless blind support they get IMHO. And they deserve ridicule every step of the way and its costing Stoke City too So they can go f*** themselves In fact right now, they have one single player actually playing at world class level right now (Raheen Sterling) the rest to my eyes totally and utterly gash SO Would I have dropped him too ? answer is yes but, England are in part culpable for messing with his head last summer My take is that every single England manager ever would have told Butland the same. Go play top level. Can't expect to play for England whilst playing Championship. Obviously Butland has shown astonishingly poor form this season so it's academic.
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Post by JoeinOz on Oct 13, 2019 21:27:18 GMT
Joe in oz - My answer to your question about Buto being dropped or not is, something like this Its chicken and egg to me -IF Southgate had took him to one side and said - 'listen Jack you are the future - long term' - No matter you are playing in the championship and, even if your form is off - we will keep an eye out and, look after you. That wouldve been responsible and proper man management As it was, Southgate ( bent nosed bastard that he is) had told him in no uncertain terms, he needed to be in playing the premiership to keep his place in the England squad. That had been widely reported last summer and is seen as accurate. My take - snobbish elitest and Unsettling in the extreme to a young ambitous lad like Butland - atrocious even, I think therefore that Southgate and what he represents is at least in part, culpable, for Jacks career destroying more recent form - therefore I will treat Southgate and the arrogance and elitest mentality that he and The FA / England set up possess ,with even more contempt than usual thank you very much. They are an utterly shit corrupted snobbish outfit undeserving of the sometimes mindless blind support they get IMHO. And they deserve ridicule every step of the way and its costing Stoke City too So they can go f*** themselves In fact right now, they have one single player actually playing at world class level right now (Raheen Sterling) the rest to my eyes totally and utterly gash SO Would I have dropped him too ? answer is yes but, England are in part culpable for messing with his head last summer Hes dropped an off form player and you're blarting about it. He dropped Delle Alli too for the same reason. How do you know Southo hasn't given words of encouragement? And what better motivation is there than to get his place in the England squad? Blaming others is daft. Jack Butland is an adult. He, like other adults, has to be responsible. Actually, imho, if he was in the England squad right now it wouldn't help him. He needs time away to get his head back together and recover focus.
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Post by dreamtheater on Oct 13, 2019 23:29:38 GMT
jo in oz. With all due respect,you missed my point completely. He was told he had to leave Stoke and in all probability lose his spot if he did not move BEFORE his catastrophic loss of form .. None of you see correlation between this and what has actually happened to his game at all ??????? simply amazing! ...England & their manager messed with his head. It's affected him, yes it's not exclusively their fault but, they've played a part at the very least and, it is costing us a fortune.
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