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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2019 17:04:47 GMT
Well then we are never going to agree. The problem is not in the right to healthcare. The problem is in the government refusing to fund it properly. The pragmatist in me says that there needs to be a government based service operating in competition with private providers, but ideally the government should not interfere in healthcare at all. It's a very dangerous slippery slope to get people relying on the government for healthcare; it essentially renders Big Statism untouchable. It is possibly the most basic human right we should allow people. Healthcare should be free for all. Healthcare in the US run by multinational companies is famously completely fine, you're right.
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Post by salopstick on Sept 22, 2019 17:05:12 GMT
Well then we are never going to agree. The problem is not in the right to healthcare. The problem is in the government refusing to fund it properly. The pragmatist in me says that there needs to be a government based service operating in competition with private providers, but ideally the government should not interfere in healthcare at all. It's a very dangerous slippery slope to get people relying on the government for healthcare; it essentially renders Big Statism untouchable. The sarcastic cunt in me says lilfraise needs to come out of his privileged bubble and spend a few years in the real world with real people
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Post by Pretty Little Boother on Sept 22, 2019 17:07:34 GMT
The pragmatist in me says that there needs to be a government based service operating in competition with private providers, but ideally the government should not interfere in healthcare at all. It's a very dangerous slippery slope to get people relying on the government for healthcare; it essentially renders Big Statism untouchable. It is possibly the most basic human right we should allow people. Healthcare should be free for all. Healthcare in the US run by multinational companies is famously completely fine, you're right. The quality and speed of service in the USA is infinitely better than here, ours is just cheaper. You get what you pay for as in any walk of life, that doesn't mean you should be compelled under threat of arrest to fork out for it. And stop calling it "free", it's not free at all.
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Sept 22, 2019 17:11:07 GMT
The pragmatist in me says that there needs to be a government based service operating in competition with private providers, but ideally the government should not interfere in healthcare at all. It's a very dangerous slippery slope to get people relying on the government for healthcare; it essentially renders Big Statism untouchable. It is possibly the most basic human right we should allow people. Healthcare should be free for all. Healthcare in the US run by multinational companies is famously completely fine, you're right. There's no such thing as 'free healthcare' it's funded by taxation. There has to be some limit on how much is spent otherwise some people would be going to their doctor's because there was nothing to watch on TV.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2019 17:15:00 GMT
It is possibly the most basic human right we should allow people. Healthcare should be free for all. Healthcare in the US run by multinational companies is famously completely fine, you're right. The quality and speed of service in the USA is infinitely better than here, ours is just cheaper. You get what you pay for as in any walk of life, that doesn't mean you should be compelled under threat of arrest to fork out for it. And stop calling it "free", it's not free at all. How's the quality and speed of it if you can't afford an ambulance because it's up to $800 for a ride to the hospital in a basic life-support ambulance. Or if you can't afford Insulin as a diabetic because the average monthly cost of a supply of insulin is $1000? The US spends twice as much on healthcare as any other country and gets worse results.
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Post by salopstick on Sept 22, 2019 17:15:13 GMT
It is possibly the most basic human right we should allow people. Healthcare should be free for all. Healthcare in the US run by multinational companies is famously completely fine, you're right. There's no such thing as 'free healthcare' it's funded by taxation. There has to be some limit on how much is spent otherwise some people would be going to their doctor's because there was nothing to watch on TV. also regardless of amount it will never be enough
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2019 17:15:56 GMT
It is possibly the most basic human right we should allow people. Healthcare should be free for all. Healthcare in the US run by multinational companies is famously completely fine, you're right. There's no such thing as 'free healthcare' it's funded by taxation. There has to be some limit on how much is spent otherwise some people would be going to their doctor's because there was nothing to watch on TV. I will happily pay taxes that fund healthcare for those who cannot afford it, aswell as funding it for myself. Do you really think we're anywhere near that limit at the minute? And wouldn't you rather be over than limit than under it?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2019 17:20:14 GMT
A properly funded state sector would mean that the gap was much smaller than it currently is in terms of quality of education. But I agree with the principle of removing private schools, the rich (or richer) get opportunities that the poorer just don't get. And I'm a teacher at a private school. A child should not get more opportunities just because their parents can afford education. You also went to private school Which is why your mother and I are skint 🤪
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Post by elystokie on Sept 22, 2019 17:27:37 GMT
How long before we do away with a lot of the bricks and mortar educational establishments? Can't a lot of education be done online now anyway? It seems a very expensive system to me, ok when there were no alternatives but there are now. Possibly the academia, yes, but going to school teaches you more than that. Daily routines, schedules, discipline, interation with different types of people, working in a group, respect, accepting rules etc. Not possible from a computer. I agree that going to school teaches you more than that, but I'm just not sure it needs to be all the time, for as many hours/days/weeks per year as it is currently or for as many years in total. I think some of it could be replaced by a better system, I'm not sure what that system is tho
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Sept 22, 2019 17:34:43 GMT
There's no such thing as 'free healthcare' it's funded by taxation. There has to be some limit on how much is spent otherwise some people would be going to their doctor's because there was nothing to watch on TV. I will happily pay taxes that fund healthcare for those who cannot afford it, aswell as funding it for myself. Do you really think we're anywhere near that limit at the minute? And wouldn't you rather be over than limit than under it? Do you think £36,000 for 12 weeks in 'rehabilitation' for drug addiction with a 5% success rate is money well spent? The NHS spends billions on obesity when the real problem is lack of motivation and exercise. Good use of tax payer's money? Peoples health needs are infinite. Resources to fund them are finite. There will never be enough money to fund the NHS no matter how much you spend on it.
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Post by lordb on Sept 22, 2019 17:39:25 GMT
Not sure if this is still the case but Newcastle Under Lyme school for a long time had the highest rate, in the entire country, of ex pupils dropping out of University.
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Post by ravey123 on Sept 22, 2019 18:04:46 GMT
If for arguments sake 10% of children go to private schools this means that these pupils will now have to go to the overstretched system. Where does the money come from to enable these 1million or so children go to school.
Politicians should be happy that so many go to private schools - these parents still pay their taxes but do not use this portion of the system - effectively subsidising the sector.
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Post by felonious on Sept 22, 2019 18:30:55 GMT
The bottom line is always parents. Teaching children self discipline and responsibility is what good parents do. You get nowhere without hard work is something I've drilled into mine. 100%. I see it all the time. Kids whose parents have actively gone out of their way to teach them that: Teachers are out to get them School is designed to make you stupid Beware of the staff, they're trying to trip you up Don't take any tellings off, stick up for yourself and fight them tooth and nail You don't have to do anything you don't want to do If you get a detention then let me know immediately and I'll kick off until it's rescinded School is a waste of time It's frustrating because by the time they come to us in secondary, that mindset is already practically impossible to reverse. They're so full of resentment, mistrust and anger that you can hardly get them to do anything.Must be a busman's holiday for you on the terraces on a Saturday afternoon
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Post by felonious on Sept 22, 2019 18:33:23 GMT
That's not true about property prices simply because grammar schools are not catchment based schools , outstanding state schools are based on catchment so they will affect property prices . Our local grammar schools accept pupils from neighboring counties that abolished them . So young and full of answers. The lad needs to spend some time around the problems Surely you're not suggesting that he moves back home?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2019 18:35:54 GMT
I will happily pay taxes that fund healthcare for those who cannot afford it, aswell as funding it for myself. Do you really think we're anywhere near that limit at the minute? And wouldn't you rather be over than limit than under it? Do you think £36,000 for 12 weeks in 'rehabilitation' for drug addiction with a 5% success rate is money well spent? The NHS spends billions on obesity when the real problem is lack of motivation and exercise. Good use of tax payer's money? Peoples health needs are infinite. Resources to fund them are finite. There will never be enough money to fund the NHS no matter how much you spend on it. I have no idea, there are certainly problems in the NHS, but it is certainly not funded well enough now. Having enough nurses/doctors/staff to cover the actual shifts needed would be a start. Are you saying people get ill because they can't be bothered to be well? There is an obesity problem, yes, but that is not why the NHS is stretched.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2019 18:36:44 GMT
If for arguments sake 10% of children go to private schools this means that these pupils will now have to go to the overstretched system. Where does the money come from to enable these 1million or so children go to school. Politicians should be happy that so many go to private schools - these parents still pay their taxes but do not use this portion of the system - effectively subsidising the sector. Increased government spending on education, and money made from private schools by closing tax loopholes and ending charitable status.
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Post by felonious on Sept 22, 2019 18:43:55 GMT
I think as Harry has done if you want to spend your money on your children's education rather than say a world cruise, how can that be wrong.Having taught in a couple of Derbyshire LEA schools, a Cheshire snd Staffordshire one I would agree with lilFraise that it can br difficult and challenging. Each school is obviously different..... the Stoke on Trent one that I taught in was by far the most difficult ( discipline) and was under special measures. Having said that a lot of satisfaction can be gained from working with youngsters. Personally I totally agree with Labour for once, I would abolish Ofsted. Too much control from the top, too much FEAR transmitted on teachers, teaching to formula/ the test and less joy and room for innovation. There's private and private ....if I could change anything I would consider sending my children to a Rudolph Steiner school ( much more popular in Europe) .....but emphasises creativity and less structure....in my opinion more geared to children as individuals. www.steinerwaldorf.org/steiner-education/what-is-steiner-education/ It's not only that sort of choice though BJR. It's not smoking, not going out as much, cutting back on drinking and basic holidays for some parents.
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Post by felonious on Sept 22, 2019 18:46:29 GMT
The pragmatist in me says that there needs to be a government based service operating in competition with private providers, but ideally the government should not interfere in healthcare at all. It's a very dangerous slippery slope to get people relying on the government for healthcare; it essentially renders Big Statism untouchable. The sarcastic cunt in me says lilfraise needs to come out of his privileged bubble and spend a few years in the real world with real people Isn't that what he does at the cricket club?
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Post by felonious on Sept 22, 2019 18:50:21 GMT
If for arguments sake 10% of children go to private schools this means that these pupils will now have to go to the overstretched system. Where does the money come from to enable these 1million or so children go to school. Politicians should be happy that so many go to private schools - these parents still pay their taxes but do not use this portion of the system - effectively subsidising the sector. It's the same with private healthcare schemes.... people are effectively paying twice.
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Post by felonious on Sept 22, 2019 18:54:22 GMT
Do you think £36,000 for 12 weeks in 'rehabilitation' for drug addiction with a 5% success rate is money well spent? The NHS spends billions on obesity when the real problem is lack of motivation and exercise. Good use of tax payer's money? Peoples health needs are infinite. Resources to fund them are finite. There will never be enough money to fund the NHS no matter how much you spend on it. I have no idea, there are certainly problems in the NHS, but it is certainly not funded well enough now. Having enough nurses/doctors/staff to cover the actual shifts needed would be a start. Are you saying people get ill because they can't be bothered to be well? There is an obesity problem, yes, but that is not why the NHS is stretched. Are you saying that if people don't look after themselves.... smoking, drinking, excessive eating, etc.... then it has no demands on the health service? The number of new nurses is increasing dramatically but unfortunately doesn't seem to be keeping up with the increase in the number of patients presenting.
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Post by felonious on Sept 22, 2019 18:57:18 GMT
I will happily pay taxes that fund healthcare for those who cannot afford it, aswell as funding it for myself. Do you really think we're anywhere near that limit at the minute? And wouldn't you rather be over than limit than under it? Do you think £36,000 for 12 weeks in 'rehabilitation' for drug addiction with a 5% success rate is money well spent? The NHS spends billions on obesity when the real problem is lack of motivation and exercise. Good use of tax payer's money? Peoples health needs are infinite. Resources to fund them are finite. There will never be enough money to fund the NHS no matter how much you spend on it. I took my daughter to the annual running club do a couple of weeks back. She made the point that out of a 100 people in the room no one was overweight.
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Post by bathstoke on Sept 22, 2019 19:15:41 GMT
See this has descended into the usual $#!t storm. Loved Salops line that Ilfraise should get out of his privileged bubble, living in his rural idyll👨🏻🌾
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Post by harryburrows on Sept 22, 2019 19:32:10 GMT
Do you think £36,000 for 12 weeks in 'rehabilitation' for drug addiction with a 5% success rate is money well spent? The NHS spends billions on obesity when the real problem is lack of motivation and exercise. Good use of tax payer's money? Peoples health needs are infinite. Resources to fund them are finite. There will never be enough money to fund the NHS no matter how much you spend on it. I have no idea, there are certainly problems in the NHS, but it is certainly not funded well enough now. Having enough nurses/doctors/staff to cover the actual shifts needed would be a start. Are you saying people get ill because they can't be bothered to be well? There is an obesity problem, yes, but that is not why the NHS is stretched. The cost of treating type 2 diabetics is currently 1/5 of the total nhs budget , this is expected to rise to £17 billion by 2035 . This disease is largely a lifestyle issue and is avoidable if the patient is willing to accept the changes necessary, many can't be arsed
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2019 19:52:46 GMT
I have no idea, there are certainly problems in the NHS, but it is certainly not funded well enough now. Having enough nurses/doctors/staff to cover the actual shifts needed would be a start. Are you saying people get ill because they can't be bothered to be well? There is an obesity problem, yes, but that is not why the NHS is stretched. The cost of treating type 2 diabetics is currently 1/5 of the total nhs budget , this is expected to rise to £17 billion by 2035 . This disease is largely a lifestyle issue and is avoidable if the patient is willing to accept the changes necessary, many can't be arsed You'll be next....and lilfraise but none of you listen 😉
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Post by harryburrows on Sept 22, 2019 19:57:31 GMT
The cost of treating type 2 diabetics is currently 1/5 of the total nhs budget , this is expected to rise to £17 billion by 2035 . This disease is largely a lifestyle issue and is avoidable if the patient is willing to accept the changes necessary, many can't be arsed You'll be next....and lilfraise but none of you listen 😉 I'm already on the preventative course run by the NHS mate ,
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2019 19:59:19 GMT
You'll be next....and lilfraise but none of you listen 😉 I'm already on the preventative course run by the NHS mate , Costing us a fortune... Cvntrag
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Post by musik on Sept 22, 2019 20:21:20 GMT
The cost of treating type 2 diabetics is currently 1/5 of the total nhs budget , this is expected to rise to £17 billion by 2035 . This disease is largely a lifestyle issue and is avoidable if the patient is willing to accept the changes necessary, many can't be arsed Ten years ago in the news flow on my way to work I saw a news report saying it's to 30% decided by what you do and how you live, what you eat etc. For the rest, 70%, it doesn't matter what you do, eat, exercise or whatever, it's genetics. But ... a 30% decrease would be marvellous. Addition: That said, if you're unfortunate enough to get it, a strict regular diet and exercise can help you handle it and in many cases go from injections to no injections or pills.
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on Sept 22, 2019 20:34:23 GMT
It is possibly the most basic human right we should allow people. Healthcare should be free for all. Healthcare in the US run by multinational companies is famously completely fine, you're right. There's no such thing as 'free healthcare' it's funded by taxation. There has to be some limit on how much is spent otherwise some people would be going to their doctor's because there was nothing to watch on TV. And that's why Doctors should be open at night, especially weekends. There's fuck all on TV satdee/sundee nayte!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2019 20:50:33 GMT
I have no idea, there are certainly problems in the NHS, but it is certainly not funded well enough now. Having enough nurses/doctors/staff to cover the actual shifts needed would be a start. Are you saying people get ill because they can't be bothered to be well? There is an obesity problem, yes, but that is not why the NHS is stretched. The cost of treating type 2 diabetics is currently 1/5 of the total nhs budget , this is expected to rise to £17 billion by 2035 . This disease is largely a lifestyle issue and is avoidable if the patient is willing to accept the changes necessary, many can't be arsed 'Can't be arsed' isn't the right phrase for what in a lot of cases is addiction. But even so, does that mean they should be priced out of medicine? People are dying in the US because they are only buying a fraction of the insulin they need, due to the cost, and hoping they can make do.
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Sept 22, 2019 20:51:47 GMT
There's no such thing as 'free healthcare' it's funded by taxation. There has to be some limit on how much is spent otherwise some people would be going to their doctor's because there was nothing to watch on TV. And that's why Doctors should be open at night, especially weekends. There's fuck all on TV satdee/sundee nayte! Too right mate 😄
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