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Post by RAF on Nov 6, 2019 8:18:01 GMT
Oh, no one’s questioning that right, but the more interesting question is how can a fan be a fan if he is not prepared to forgive his team for messing up? I dunno mate I forgive them by being at every home game and three away so far this season. How do you pay your penance? I dunno but slashing my cock with a razor blade and getting in a bath of vinegar is preferable to watching them at the moment. H
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Post by tony1234 on Nov 6, 2019 15:57:52 GMT
Yes - absolutely correct. If you look back over promoted managers in the past 5-6 years, Bilic is also exactly the pedigree to get a team up. (As is Biesla). As was Farke, Gil (DOF at Villa), Wagner, Jokanavic. The other successful sorts being a) ones whove done it before (Bruce, Warnock, Hughton), b) managers who've grown with their team (Howe and Wilder). Only Neil has bucked the trend of lower league manager getting a team up other than one he'd built. For a team going for a promotion, getting Jones was like buying a paddle boat to get to the moon. But until our owners pick key personnel for reasons other than blood line or because they are simpering, over grateful village idiots, its the risk we run. Now, we couldn't probably get one of those managers in either of those two camps (management experience in a 'elite set up, or past success with a Champs club) even if we could afford it, because they would diagnose our dysfunction a country mile away. Another breed of manager to now turn our attention to is "who has taken over a Champs club in or near the relegation zone and steered them out of trouble." Odds don't look good (15 succeesses and 18 failures from managers taking over clubs 20th or below. 13 out of 31 got their team to move 3 or more places upwards.), and when you look at the average positions they've got teams to shift, its not that many. But does seem to favour seasoned British managers with league experience. Warnock, Bruce and Hughton look like guys to get (unrealistically)! Much as he is unfashionable, McClaran has got previous with Derby, plus he steadied the dysfunctional mob at QPR and kept them safe. "No thanks" to Cook, Harris, Warne or others of that ilk. And Cotterill is a walking relegation-place magnet. 18/19 Gomes succeeded at Reading (21st in Dec, ended 20th) Lambert failed at Ipswich (24th in Oct, ended 24th) 17/18 Cotterill failed at Birm C (24th in Sept - sacked when 22nd in March) Coleman failed at Sundld (22nd in Oct, sacked when 24th in April) Adkins succeeded at Hull (20th in Dec, ended 18th) Morais failed at Barnsley (21st in Feb, ended 22nd) Monk succeeded at Birm C (22nd in March, ended 19th) Ross failed at Sunderland (24th in Apr, ended 24th) 16/17 Bruce succeeded at AV (19th in Oct, ended 13th) Warnock succeeded at Cardiff (23rd in Oct, ended 12th) McClaran succeeded at Derby (20th in Oct, ended 9th) Jackett failed at Rotherham (24th in Oct, ended 24th) Joyce failed at Wigan (23rd in Oct, ended 23rd) Warne failed at Rotherham (24th in Nov, ended 24th) Warburton succeede at NF (21st in Jan, ended 20th) Mowbray failed at Blackburn (23rd in Feb, ended 22nd) Cook failed at Wigan (23rd in Feb, ended 23rd) Redknapp succeeded at Birm (20th in Apr, ended 19th) 15/16 Carsley succeeded at Brentford (19th in Sept, interim spell ended at 11th in Nov) Redfearn failed at Rotherham (20th in Ocot, sacked when 22nd in Feb) Riga failed at Charlton (22nd in Oct, sacked when 22nd in May) Johnson succeeded at Bristol C (22nd in Feb, ended 18th) Warnock succeeded at Rotherhan (22nd in Feb, ended 21st) Parkinson failed at Bolton (24th in Mar, ended 24th) 14/15 Powell succeeded at Huddersfd (24th in Sept, ended 16th) Milanic failed at Leeds (21st in Sept, sacked when 18th in Oct) Symons succeed at Fulham (24th in Oct, ended 17th) Lennon succeded at Bolton (23rd in Oct, ended 18th) Rowett succeeded at Birm City (21st in Oct, ended 10th) Clarke failed at Blackpool (24th in Oct, ended 24th) McKay failed at Wigan (22nd in Nov, sacked when 23rd in Apr) Hughton succeeded at Brighton (22nd in Dec, ended 20th) Harris failed at Maillwall (23rd in Apr, ended 22nd) Caldwell failed at Wigan (23rd in Apr, ended 23rd) Are you giving Gil so much credit for the Villa role because it would damage your argument to give the credit to Dean Smith? Yes. 😊 but also because experience is a precursor to knowledge.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Nov 6, 2019 17:20:38 GMT
Are you giving Gil so much credit for the Villa role because it would damage your argument to give the credit to Dean Smith? Yes. 😊 but also because experience is a precursor to knowledge. It doesn't always necessarily work that way.
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Post by tony1234 on Nov 6, 2019 20:53:14 GMT
Yes. 😊 but also because experience is a precursor to knowledge. It doesn't always necessarily work that way. Its football - part of life - so there are probabilities and outliers, so i agree. The young brain can be creative and adaptable. The experienced one can often be blinkered and slow. The average age of a successful start founder up is 45. The 30-39s start as many as the 40-49s but are slightly less successful.They are also successful in their 50s-59s, but the success rate tails away after that. When I read that it made me wonder about footie managers and the emerging trends in manager age. Its never clear cut and age and experience far from guarantee anything - as so you so rightly say - but i'd probably say stack the odds in your favour unless you have some really solid insight to think differently.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Nov 6, 2019 21:10:40 GMT
It doesn't always necessarily work that way. Its football - part of life - so there are probabilities and outliers, so i agree. The young brain can be creative and adaptable. The experienced one can often be blinkered and slow. The average age of a successful start founder up is 45. The 30-39s start as many as the 40-49s but are slightly less successful.They are also successful in their 50s-59s, but the success rate tails away after that. When I read that it made me wonder about footie managers and the emerging trends in manager age. Its never clear cut and age and experience far from guarantee anything - as so you so rightly say - but i'd probably say stack the odds in your favour unless you have some really solid insight to think differently. Dunno, deliberately ommitting cases that don't suit your argument or giving others the credit for them is pretty rum, it only really serves to discredit yours. You have to take them all into account, not just conveniently cite the ones that suit your argument.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 7, 2019 0:02:56 GMT
Does he still think we’re not absolutely rotten?
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Post by tony1234 on Nov 7, 2019 0:04:15 GMT
Its football - part of life - so there are probabilities and outliers, so i agree. The young brain can be creative and adaptable. The experienced one can often be blinkered and slow. The average age of a successful start founder up is 45. The 30-39s start as many as the 40-49s but are slightly less successful.They are also successful in their 50s-59s, but the success rate tails away after that. When I read that it made me wonder about footie managers and the emerging trends in manager age. Its never clear cut and age and experience far from guarantee anything - as so you so rightly say - but i'd probably say stack the odds in your favour unless you have some really solid insight to think differently. Dunno, deliberately ommitting cases that don't suit your argument or giving others the credit for them is pretty rum, it only really serves to discredit yours. You have to take them all into account, not just conveniently cite the ones that suit your argument. I agree with the principle, that really this argument should be about the "% success rate for each season a club has this sort of experience in its football management ranks vs. not." But frankly, im not poring through ten years to research them! On the pt of Smith: I have not disputed Smith as a manager. The "argument" as you so combatively put it is to note clubs who got promoted over the past 5-6 years tended to have had three sorts of experience amongst their top level footalling staff. most often manager, but the DOF too - one of the three being that they appeared to have had a senior coaching/managerial footballing job in what we might call an elite set up: An international team or top European level club side (aka well funded and, its fair to assume, with access to leading methods, data and contacts and colleagues etc). - listing Farke, Wagner, Benitez, Karanka, Jokanavic, Santo. You mentioned Webber, who'd fit with his Liverpool connection. Im sure the combination of Gil and Smith was more powerful for what the other brought - and Smith would offer much - so the argument is not and never was a claim that only Gil got Villa promoted with no credit due elsewhere. Rather, I am proposing that this - i.e. Gil's - "sort" of experience is increasingly adding value in more recent Champs promotion races. No of course its not a unified theory, with it completely accepted that much else goes on at footballing clubs which influence their outcome and the effort is ultimately a team one. I couldn't see any of these managers overcoming Stoke's issues to create a title challenge, for instance. Neil is one big the exception to all this when getting Norwich up. He took over a team that was in the bottom 3 having been recruited from a 'lesser-league' club. Other stats on how well teams in the bottom 3, at the stage he took over, ultimately fare would suggest he'd have done well to get them to 16th. That shows pretty much anything can happen, but the point is that its rare. Saying his success was "very unlikely" doesn't take anything away from Neil or his achievement. So anyhow, if this "theory" works, we'll see one or both of Bilic and Biesla promoted this year. Parker misses out, despite having the best players (along with Cooper, Johnson et al). Neil's in with a shout, because hes done it before. Lamouchi is too, because he managed a nation.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Nov 7, 2019 7:49:12 GMT
Dunno, deliberately ommitting cases that don't suit your argument or giving others the credit for them is pretty rum, it only really serves to discredit yours. You have to take them all into account, not just conveniently cite the ones that suit your argument. I agree with the principle, that really this argument should be about the "% success rate for each season a club has this sort of experience in its football management ranks vs. not." But frankly, im not poring through ten years to research them! On the pt of Smith: I have not disputed Smith as a manager. The "argument" as you so combatively put it is to note clubs who got promoted over the past 5-6 years tended to have had three sorts of experience amongst their top level footalling staff. most often manager, but the DOF too - one of the three being that they appeared to have had a senior coaching/managerial footballing job in what we might call an elite set up: An international team or top European level club side (aka well funded and, its fair to assume, with access to leading methods, data and contacts and colleagues etc). - listing Farke, Wagner, Benitez, Karanka, Jokanavic, Santo. You mentioned Webber, who'd fit with his Liverpool connection. Im sure the combination of Gil and Smith was more powerful for what the other brought - and Smith would offer much - so the argument is not and never was a claim that only Gil got Villa promoted with no credit due elsewhere. Rather, I am proposing that this - i.e. Gil's - "sort" of experience is increasingly adding value in more recent Champs promotion races. No of course its not a unified theory, with it completely accepted that much else goes on at footballing clubs which influence their outcome and the effort is ultimately a team one. I couldn't see any of these managers overcoming Stoke's issues to create a title challenge, for instance. Neil is one big the exception to all this when getting Norwich up. He took over a team that was in the bottom 3 having been recruited from a 'lesser-league' club. Other stats on how well teams in the bottom 3, at the stage he took over, ultimately fare would suggest he'd have done well to get them to 16th. That shows pretty much anything can happen, but the point is that its rare. Saying his success was "very unlikely" doesn't take anything away from Neil or his achievement. So anyhow, if this "theory" works, we'll see one or both of Bilic and Biesla promoted this year. Parker misses out, despite having the best players (along with Cooper, Johnson et al). Neil's in with a shout, because hes done it before. Lamouchi is too, because he managed a nation. Interesting. Out of interest, where do the likes of Wilder's Sheffield United, Warnock's Cardiff, Hughton's Brighton, Dyche's Burnley and Pearson's Leicester fit in o the promoted sides of the last 5-6 years? They don't quite seem an ideal fit for either category. Given the three names we've reportedly interviewed, what's your take on O'Neil (managed a nation) and Clarke (managed a nation, worked with an elite club)?
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Post by tachyon on Nov 7, 2019 9:02:02 GMT
Quote "Look, you can forget all of that ‘Expected Goals’ nonsense. We’re exactly where we deserve to be after the standard of football we’ve played. It’s no good harping on about how many goals we should have scored, how few goals we should have conceded and how many points we should have. One of the strongest indicators of a bad football team is one which can’t score enough goals from the chances it creates, or keep the opposition from scoring from the chances it creates".
Sides whose outcome (the goals they score or allow) diverges (in a bad way) from their process (the chances they create or allow), as Stoke's currently does, tend towards their previous process, rather than their previous outcome in the future. So it's a pretty poor indicator of a bad football team.
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Post by tony1234 on Nov 7, 2019 11:36:57 GMT
I agree with the principle, that really this argument should be about the "% success rate for each season a club has this sort of experience in its football management ranks vs. not." But frankly, im not poring through ten years to research them! On the pt of Smith: I have not disputed Smith as a manager. The "argument" as you so combatively put it is to note clubs who got promoted over the past 5-6 years tended to have had three sorts of experience amongst their top level footalling staff. most often manager, but the DOF too - one of the three being that they appeared to have had a senior coaching/managerial footballing job in what we might call an elite set up: An international team or top European level club side (aka well funded and, its fair to assume, with access to leading methods, data and contacts and colleagues etc). - listing Farke, Wagner, Benitez, Karanka, Jokanavic, Santo. You mentioned Webber, who'd fit with his Liverpool connection. Im sure the combination of Gil and Smith was more powerful for what the other brought - and Smith would offer much - so the argument is not and never was a claim that only Gil got Villa promoted with no credit due elsewhere. Rather, I am proposing that this - i.e. Gil's - "sort" of experience is increasingly adding value in more recent Champs promotion races. No of course its not a unified theory, with it completely accepted that much else goes on at footballing clubs which influence their outcome and the effort is ultimately a team one. I couldn't see any of these managers overcoming Stoke's issues to create a title challenge, for instance. Neil is one big the exception to all this when getting Norwich up. He took over a team that was in the bottom 3 having been recruited from a 'lesser-league' club. Other stats on how well teams in the bottom 3, at the stage he took over, ultimately fare would suggest he'd have done well to get them to 16th. That shows pretty much anything can happen, but the point is that its rare. Saying his success was "very unlikely" doesn't take anything away from Neil or his achievement. So anyhow, if this "theory" works, we'll see one or both of Bilic and Biesla promoted this year. Parker misses out, despite having the best players (along with Cooper, Johnson et al). Neil's in with a shout, because hes done it before. Lamouchi is too, because he managed a nation. Interesting. Out of interest, where do the likes of Wilder's Sheffield United, Warnock's Cardiff, Hughton's Brighton, Dyche's Burnley and Pearson's Leicester fit in o the promoted sides of the last 5-6 years? They don't quite seem an ideal fit for either category. Given the three names we've reportedly interviewed, what's your take on O'Neil (managed a nation) and Clarke (managed a nation, worked with an elite club)? The three sorts of experience that i thought recurred over the past 6 or so years amongst successful clubs were:_ 1) knowiedge of elite environments - the ones mentioned before Farke, Gil, Santo, Jokanavic (also a #2), Benitez, Wagner, Karanka, (Dyche also worked for England U21s), Redknapp 2) knowledge of a previous promotion - Hughton, Warnock, Bruce, Dyche 3) knowledge of the club and lower level success with it:- generally, a manager who has brought his team up and continued to iteratively build in the Champs - Howe and Wilder (Pearson, half yes, half no, as he got them promoted in an earlier reign) Doesnt fit: Neil, Pearson (50-50). This year, Biesla, Bilic and Lamouchi would be #1s. Neil would be a #2. On O'Neill and Clarke (and McClaran too) - this may be where you feel im over making this case or im not communicating it well. All of the above comes with the recognition that "all carrots are orange but not all orange things are carrots". The experience occurs frequently amonst successful managers over recent years. You are right, we'd need to look at ALL cases that that experience has been bought and then say, "did that increase the odds of promotion?" Im just betting here and now that it did - but there is still clearly a big element of judgement involved in recruitment. I just noted - in relation to Jones - that the chipper lower league manager doesn't seem to be figuring in any of this of late bar Neil (though it depends what you call the SPL). On 2) - you could say, "well - these guys needed to do it for a first time to do for a second time." Absolutely - im also just noting that in the past few years there have been few "first timers" and that the previous experience of a promotion seems to be useful. You would be right to say that the "past few years" - lets say 6 - still makes for a small sample of 18 managers. Earlier than 12/13 when Mackay got Cardiff up, it was British-centric managers. Look - am with you on the idea that there is no "uoptian theory".Im surprised if i find any patterns so when i do think its interesting.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Nov 7, 2019 11:58:39 GMT
Interesting. Out of interest, where do the likes of Wilder's Sheffield United, Warnock's Cardiff, Hughton's Brighton, Dyche's Burnley and Pearson's Leicester fit in o the promoted sides of the last 5-6 years? They don't quite seem an ideal fit for either category. Given the three names we've reportedly interviewed, what's your take on O'Neil (managed a nation) and Clarke (managed a nation, worked with an elite club)? The three sorts of experience that i thought recurred over the past 6 or so years amongst successful clubs were:_ 1) knowiedge of elite environments - the ones mentioned before Farke, Gil, Santo, Jokanavic (also a #2), Benitez, Wagner, Karanka, (Dyche also worked for England U21s), Redknapp 2) knowledge of a previous promotion - Hughton, Warnock, Bruce, Dyche 3) knowledge of the club and lower level success with it:- generally, a manager who has brought his team up and continued to iteratively build in the Champs - Howe and Wilder (Pearson, half yes, half no, as he got them promoted in an earlier reign) Doesnt fit: Neil, Pearson (50-50). This year, Biesla, Bilic and Lamouchi would be #1s. Neil would be a #2. On O'Neill and Clarke (and McClaran too) - this may be where you feel im over making this case or im not communicating it well. All of the above comes with the recognition that "all carrots are orange but not all orange things are carrots". The experience occurs frequently amonst successful managers over recent years. You are right, we'd need to look at ALL cases that that experience has been bought and then say, "did that increase the odds of promotion?" Im just betting here and now that it did - but there is still clearly a big element of judgement involved in recruitment. I just noted - in relation to Jones - that the chipper lower league manager doesn't seem to be figuring in any of this of late bar Neil (though it depends what you call the SPL). On 2) - you could say, "well - these guys needed to do it for a first time to do for a second time." Absolutely - im also just noting that in the past few years there have been few "first timers" and that the previous experience of a promotion seems to be useful. You would be right to say that the "past few years" - lets say 6 - still makes for a small sample of 18 managers. Earlier than 12/13 when Mackay got Cardiff up, it was British-centric managers. Look - am with you on the idea that there is no "uoptian theory".Im surprised if i find any patterns so when i do think its interesting. Well, bar Neil and Smith, the latter of whom you've removed the credit from... Where would Dyche's original promotion fit in as well? I think if we're extending it to England and England u-21s (with whom Jones had the odd weekend here and there too) it's incredibly broad and can be applied to probably too many managers to read too much into it.
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Post by tony1234 on Nov 7, 2019 13:56:17 GMT
The three sorts of experience that i thought recurred over the past 6 or so years amongst successful clubs were:_ 1) knowiedge of elite environments - the ones mentioned before Farke, Gil, Santo, Jokanavic (also a #2), Benitez, Wagner, Karanka, (Dyche also worked for England U21s), Redknapp 2) knowledge of a previous promotion - Hughton, Warnock, Bruce, Dyche 3) knowledge of the club and lower level success with it:- generally, a manager who has brought his team up and continued to iteratively build in the Champs - Howe and Wilder (Pearson, half yes, half no, as he got them promoted in an earlier reign) Doesnt fit: Neil, Pearson (50-50). This year, Biesla, Bilic and Lamouchi would be #1s. Neil would be a #2. On O'Neill and Clarke (and McClaran too) - this may be where you feel im over making this case or im not communicating it well. All of the above comes with the recognition that "all carrots are orange but not all orange things are carrots". The experience occurs frequently amonst successful managers over recent years. You are right, we'd need to look at ALL cases that that experience has been bought and then say, "did that increase the odds of promotion?" Im just betting here and now that it did - but there is still clearly a big element of judgement involved in recruitment. I just noted - in relation to Jones - that the chipper lower league manager doesn't seem to be figuring in any of this of late bar Neil (though it depends what you call the SPL). On 2) - you could say, "well - these guys needed to do it for a first time to do for a second time." Absolutely - im also just noting that in the past few years there have been few "first timers" and that the previous experience of a promotion seems to be useful. You would be right to say that the "past few years" - lets say 6 - still makes for a small sample of 18 managers. Earlier than 12/13 when Mackay got Cardiff up, it was British-centric managers. Look - am with you on the idea that there is no "uoptian theory".Im surprised if i find any patterns so when i do think its interesting. Well, bar Neil and Smith, the latter of whom you've removed the credit from... Where would Dyche's original promotion fit in as well? I think if we're extending it to England and England u-21s (with whom Jones had the odd weekend here and there too) it's incredibly broad and can be applied to probably too many managers to read too much into it. I mentioned that i think it was about 2013-14, Dyche's first promotion, when we saw the British manager win a promotion for the first time dwindle out. While we agree the church is broad on these managers, if we go back to the original point of our debate and what i did actually claim, its that - while this church is indeed broad - the Jones type appointment (lower league manager taking over a different Championship club) hasn't worked for Championship clubs with promotion aspirations for over 5 years. (I would never have guessed at how thoroughly miserable he'd be, believing even with a stuttering, confused team he'd be in the 14th-18th type range, but that's another story). Of the 9 managers that have won the PL, only two have been British. These past 5 years, I think we are starting to see - and we'll increasingly see - this trend over the next 5-10 years in the Champs too. Makes sense - to me anyhow - from the simple logic that if you expand your managerial pool to a global candidate list, you will increase your chances of finding better candidates. (But you still need to be a capable judge - or you may well find worse ones too!). We are not quite yet there though, but it follows logically to me that the experience required for British managers needs to be of a better quality than it was to succeed. (Experience being a proxy for insight, which is harder to measure). If you think theres nothing in it, fine, we are back where we were. I do, you don't. Peace!
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Nov 7, 2019 14:05:50 GMT
Well, bar Neil and Smith, the latter of whom you've removed the credit from... Where would Dyche's original promotion fit in as well? I think if we're extending it to England and England u-21s (with whom Jones had the odd weekend here and there too) it's incredibly broad and can be applied to probably too many managers to read too much into it. I mentioned that i think it was about 2013-14, Dyche's first promotion, when we saw the British manager win a promotion for the first time dwindle out. While we agree the church is broad on these managers, if we go back to the original point of our debate and what i did actually claim, its that - while this church is indeed broad - the Jones type appointment (lower league manager taking over a different Championship club) hasn't worked for Championship clubs with promotion aspirations for over 5 years. (I would never have guessed at how thoroughly miserable he'd be, believing even with a stuttering, confused team he'd be in the 14th-18th type range, but that's another story). Of the 9 managers that have won the PL, only two have been British. These past 5 years, I think we are starting to see - and we'll increasingly see - this trend over the next 5-10 years in the Champs too. Makes sense - to me anyhow - from the simple logic that if you expand your managerial pool to a global candidate list, you will increase your chances of finding better candidates. (But you still need to be a capable judge - or you may well find worse ones too!). We are not quite yet there though, but it follows logically to me that the experience required for British managers needs to be of a better quality than it was to succeed. (Experience being a proxy for insight, which is harder to measure). If you think theres nothing in it, fine, we are back where we were. I do, you don't. Peace! I thought the argument wasn't about where they came from in terms of nationality but in terms of them having some sort of 'elite club experience', whether they were English or not? You won't see me arguing against looking at overseas appointments, I wish we would.
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Post by tony1234 on Nov 7, 2019 14:22:38 GMT
I mentioned that i think it was about 2013-14, Dyche's first promotion, when we saw the British manager win a promotion for the first time dwindle out. While we agree the church is broad on these managers, if we go back to the original point of our debate and what i did actually claim, its that - while this church is indeed broad - the Jones type appointment (lower league manager taking over a different Championship club) hasn't worked for Championship clubs with promotion aspirations for over 5 years. (I would never have guessed at how thoroughly miserable he'd be, believing even with a stuttering, confused team he'd be in the 14th-18th type range, but that's another story). Of the 9 managers that have won the PL, only two have been British. These past 5 years, I think we are starting to see - and we'll increasingly see - this trend over the next 5-10 years in the Champs too. Makes sense - to me anyhow - from the simple logic that if you expand your managerial pool to a global candidate list, you will increase your chances of finding better candidates. (But you still need to be a capable judge - or you may well find worse ones too!). We are not quite yet there though, but it follows logically to me that the experience required for British managers needs to be of a better quality than it was to succeed. (Experience being a proxy for insight, which is harder to measure). If you think theres nothing in it, fine, we are back where we were. I do, you don't. Peace! I thought the argument wasn't about where they came from in terms of nationality but in terms of them having some sort of 'elite club experience', whether they were English or not? You won't see me arguing against looking at overseas appointments, I wish we would. I feel we took a detour in this argument and from reading your posts, which i enjoy, agree on much - not all - but much. Im not against a robust challenge though and you provide some great ones - and i do take them on board. The original argument from me was that the Jones appointment doesn't work now (its not at all a wise bet anyhow). Then I had a look at what appointments do work - and thought there were some recurring types of experience that had appeared in latter years. But that's where you said i was overstating it or not being fair to the evidence, and i defended, but ultimately, id agree i've not done analysis here of the standard to prove/disprove. As for the pt you make - I see the two trends - "managerial experience in an elite set up" and being a "non British manager" as correlated for the time being at least: effectively, they are often one and the same. The trend is that by looking abroad, there are more candidates with this experience to choose from (and this experience will be a factor in choice), so when they are recruited they are more likely to have been chosen for having that experience. The trend may evolve again, but am expecting the Champs to evolve into a similar trend as the PL from this perspective for upcoming years, so long as we remain relatively richer than other leagues who can attract top candidates. I wish we'd join the trend, but i wouldn't trust our board to be able to discriminate between Pep and Di Canio.
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Nov 12, 2019 14:08:28 GMT
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Dec 3, 2019 11:40:11 GMT
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Post by OldStokie on Dec 3, 2019 17:24:33 GMT
Nail on head again by Smudge.
OS.
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Post by reddipotter on Dec 3, 2019 19:43:50 GMT
I came away from Saturday's game convinced that we are about to be relegated. I really can't see a way out. This article is spot on.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2019 21:19:53 GMT
Getting back to Warrington (greyman) (wuzza) etc; they are going to f-ck it up. Having lived here all my life, the traffic nowadays is a nightmare. More building coming up. Those beautiful fields and green area's, as mentioned before, going to be ruined. I've seen the new housing flag's in Dipping Brook lane. Nowt short of a disgrace IMHO! They are going to build on the old Thames Board Mills site. Hopefully that will take some of the traffic of Chester Road, but I won't hold my breath!
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Post by Gods on Dec 4, 2019 0:22:54 GMT
Smudge seems to have lifted the entire article from my recent posts on here right down to the minutiae of the 84/85 stats.
No wonder I found myself nodding in agreement :-)
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Post by wuzza on Dec 4, 2019 2:00:03 GMT
Getting back to Warrington (greyman) (wuzza) etc; they are going to f-ck it up. Having lived here all my life, the traffic nowadays is a nightmare. More building coming up. Those beautiful fields and green area's, as mentioned before, going to be ruined. I've seen the new housing flag's in Dipping Brook lane. Nowt short of a disgrace IMHO! They are going to build on the old Thames Board Mills site. Hopefully that will take some of the traffic of Chester Road, but I won't hold my breath! Regularly walk along DBLane - it’s a goner - the whole A.Thorn area will soon have the population density of the East End of London in the 1890s (with less advanced local services). I can now walk from my house to S.Heath and back in the time it would take just to get out on to London Road in the car. Wait till they start building the new road - Gainsborough Road is going to be closed for months for starters. That combined with the fact that it seems to take about a week for the bridges to open and close these days should lead to some fun and games. ......and on that cheerful note combined with the joy of the football these days I shall reach for the bottle (again) 🙂.
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Post by rawli on Dec 4, 2019 2:33:28 GMT
Getting back to Warrington (greyman) (wuzza) etc; they are going to f-ck it up. Having lived here all my life, the traffic nowadays is a nightmare. More building coming up. Those beautiful fields and green area's, as mentioned before, going to be ruined. I've seen the new housing flag's in Dipping Brook lane. Nowt short of a disgrace IMHO! They are going to build on the old Thames Board Mills site. Hopefully that will take some of the traffic of Chester Road, but I won't hold my breath! Regularly walk along DBLane - it’s a goner - the whole A.Thorn area will soon have the population density of the East End of London in the 1890s (with less advanced local services). I can now walk from my house to S.Heath and back in the time it would take just to get out on to London Road in the car. Wait till they start building the new road - Gainsborough Road is going to be closed for months for starters. That combined with the fact that it seems to take about a week for the bridges to open and close these days should lead to some fun and games. ......and on that cheerful note combined with the joy of the football these days I shall reach for the bottle (again) 🙂. They seem to be bringing the roads up to the point where they may be able to cope with current traffic. But then they are building thousands of houses which will mean we're back to square one.
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Post by potterpaul on Dec 4, 2019 4:49:35 GMT
When was the Everything Else board closed down? I wish admin would keep us updated on these things so we can start random conversations on any thread.
Now which thread shall I start a topic about the best cheese shop in Dieppe....ahh yes the 'refs for Hull and Luton' thread. See you there
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2019 5:25:51 GMT
I came away from Saturday's game convinced that we are about to be relegated. I really can't see a way out. This article is spot on. What he actually says is that there are still going to be three worse teams than us. We don't deserve to stay up, but we just might.
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Post by reddipotter on Dec 4, 2019 9:28:49 GMT
I came away from Saturday's game convinced that we are about to be relegated. I really can't see a way out. This article is spot on. What he actually says is that there are still going to be three worse teams than us. We don't deserve to stay up, but we just might. Well, I suppose there might be three worse teams, but I don't know who they are at the moment.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2019 10:31:35 GMT
What he actually says is that there are still going to be three worse teams than us. We don't deserve to stay up, but we just might. Well, I suppose there might be three worse teams, but I don't know who they are at the moment. He does suggest the two we recently beat, who are below us in the table plus Luton who are still the great unknown to us. On the basis of their Brentford game we should not have much to fear, like, we are bad but we at least don't lose by seven goals. But knowing our boys, they will underestimate the Hatters and so invite a defeat, plus, from Luton's point of view, we are the club that stole their wonder boy manager away. Notwithstanding that they, or least some of them, hate him now, they will still want some form of revenge.
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Post by stroller on Dec 4, 2019 11:58:06 GMT
When was the Everything Else board closed down? I wish admin would keep us updated on these things so we can start random conversations on any thread. Now which thread shall I start a topic about the best cheese shop in Dieppe....ahh yes the 'refs for Hull and Luton' thread. See you there John Pierre Fromages Rue de la Republique "Cracking Camembert" !
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Post by Not_Nick_H on Dec 4, 2019 12:17:10 GMT
Regularly walk along DBLane - it’s a goner - the whole A.Thorn area will soon have the population density of the East End of London in the 1890s (with less advanced local services). I can now walk from my house to S.Heath and back in the time it would take just to get out on to London Road in the car. Wait till they start building the new road - Gainsborough Road is going to be closed for months for starters. That combined with the fact that it seems to take about a week for the bridges to open and close these days should lead to some fun and games. ......and on that cheerful note combined with the joy of the football these days I shall reach for the bottle (again) 🙂. They seem to be bringing the roads up to the point where they may be able to cope with current traffic. But then they are building thousands of houses which will mean we're back to square one. Blimey - do we need a Warrington-Potters sub-group? (Although I seem to be alone on the Northside (Great Sankey) by the looks of it). An area that's also choking on its own traffic as they sling up more and more houses.
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Post by wuzza on Dec 4, 2019 12:37:43 GMT
They seem to be bringing the roads up to the point where they may be able to cope with current traffic. But then they are building thousands of houses which will mean we're back to square one. Blimey - do we need a Warrington-Potters sub-group? (Although I seem to be alone on the Northside (Great Sankey) by the looks of it). An area that's also choking on its own traffic as they sling up more and more houses. North and South with the joys of Bridgefoot in the middle - the place is just a car park! (Never mind at least we are getting one of those new fangled Cinema places soon 😁)
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Post by Not_Nick_H on Dec 4, 2019 12:56:29 GMT
Blimey - do we need a Warrington-Potters sub-group? (Although I seem to be alone on the Northside (Great Sankey) by the looks of it). An area that's also choking on its own traffic as they sling up more and more houses. North and South with the joys of Bridgefoot in the middle - the place is just a car park! (Never mind at least we are getting one of those new fangled Cinema places soon 😁) Yep, it'll be hard to make a case for going to an early showing at that cinema when it means joining the gridlock through town. Luckily I'm still strolling distance from the Odeon with it's new comfy recliner seats . I can't wait to see what chaos ensues when they start on the Western Link route.
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