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Post by sheikhmomo on Oct 8, 2019 20:44:05 GMT
I genuinely don’t see what Saturday is supposed to have changed in the wider scheme of things. An absolutely indefensible and unforgiveable record at 3pm was still an indefensible and unforgiveable record at 5pm. I can’t believe there’s even anything to discuss let alone a ‘crossroads’ or a ‘gamble’ involved. Indefensible, I get that. Unforgiveable? What is forgiveness? If someone absolutely can't forgive someone else, that implies an irreparable breakdown of trust. If there is no trust, there can be no meaningful relationship between the parties other than contractual obligations. So how can a fan be a fan if he is not prepared to forgive his team for messing up? I'll forgive who I want to thanks, Frasier!
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Post by adi on Oct 8, 2019 20:45:44 GMT
I genuinely don’t see what Saturday is supposed to have changed in the wider scheme of things. An absolutely indefensible and unforgiveable record at 3pm was still an indefensible and unforgiveable record at 5pm. I can’t believe there’s even anything to discuss let alone a ‘crossroads’ or a ‘gamble’ involved. It was always going to happen if we’d won. Any derision would always be met with “just be happy” “stop moaning”. Which at the time it is good to enjoy finally winning, it doesn’t change much in the grand scheme of things as you say. If we went on a run and actually started playing to the level we should rightly expect then fine. Until then I don’t blame anyone for wanting Jones replacing.
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Post by strangerthingshappen on Oct 9, 2019 6:45:30 GMT
The main difference on Saturday was that we failed to make any catastrophic mistakes. Still suffered some bad luck with the save bouncing to the feet of their forward. NJ's managed to get Etebo and Ndiaye playing and also offloaded players away from the club and payroll. Not surprised he's doing 14 hour days! Also have to look at who would actually take the job? When u say he's offloaded players , Off the payroll Can you explain this ? which ones exactly ? He talks far too much and most of it is pure rubbish, He even puts Rowett to shame with his mouth and has 1 win in 11 this season .....
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Post by GoBoks on Oct 9, 2019 19:38:00 GMT
Indefensible, I get that. Unforgiveable? What is forgiveness? If someone absolutely can't forgive someone else, that implies an irreparable breakdown of trust. If there is no trust, there can be no meaningful relationship between the parties other than contractual obligations. So how can a fan be a fan if he is not prepared to forgive his team for messing up? I'll forgive who I want to thanks, Frasier! Oh, no one’s questioning that right, but the more interesting question is how can a fan be a fan if he is not prepared to forgive his team for messing up?
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Post by GoBoks on Oct 9, 2019 19:41:22 GMT
The main difference on Saturday was that we failed to make any catastrophic mistakes. Still suffered some bad luck with the save bouncing to the feet of their forward. NJ's managed to get Etebo and Ndiaye playing and also offloaded players away from the club and payroll. Not surprised he's doing 14 hour days! Also have to look at who would actually take the job? When u say he's offloaded players , Off the payroll Can you explain this ? which ones exactly ? He talks far too much and most of it is pure rubbish, He even puts Rowett to shame with his mouth and has 1 win in 11 this season ..... Bojan, Imbula, Afobe, etc. Why ask the question instead of just looking at a list of the outgoing players?
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Post by sheikhmomo on Oct 9, 2019 20:05:43 GMT
I'll forgive who I want to thanks, Frasier! Oh, no one’s questioning that right, but the more interesting question is how can a fan be a fan if he is not prepared to forgive his team for messing up? I dunno mate I forgive them by being at every home game and three away so far this season. How do you pay your penance?
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Post by GoBoks on Oct 9, 2019 20:13:49 GMT
Oh, no one’s questioning that right, but the more interesting question is how can a fan be a fan if he is not prepared to forgive his team for messing up? I dunno mate I forgive them by being at every home game and three away so far this season. How do you pay your penance? But but but....... you just said that Stoke’s offenses are unforgivable, yet now you have forgiven them? As for me, my penance is paid by my good wife who has to put up with me being grumpy and sporadic outbursts of “Idiots!”, “Blooming Morons!”, “Pathetic!”, etc for about 24 hours. Then I’m right as rain again. Must be 50+ years of training that allows me to put it behind me and hope for better in the future.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Oct 9, 2019 20:26:21 GMT
I dunno mate I forgive them by being at every home game and three away so far this season. How do you pay your penance? But but but....... you just said that Stoke’s offenses are unforgivable, yet now you have forgiven them? As for me, my penance is paid by my good wife who has to put up with me being grumpy and sporadic outbursts of “Idiots!”, “Blooming Morons!”, “Pathetic!”, etc for about 24 hours. Then I’m right as rain again. Must be 50+ years of training that allows me to put it behind me and hope for better in the future. Oh so you're just being a pedant and not some sort of psychoanalytic interpreter of the values and realities of forgiveness? P.S. I'm just like you !
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Oct 15, 2019 11:30:23 GMT
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Post by Gary Hackett on Oct 16, 2019 11:59:03 GMT
Mr inconsistent, there's no point him doing them any more. He changes his stance on a weekly basis.
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Post by terrorofturfmoor on Oct 16, 2019 12:10:09 GMT
He can make a start by keeping practically the same side for a change, with maybe the one exception....MAYBE, and that's Hogan for Campbell!!!
DON'T be tempted to draft McClean or Ince back into the starting line up (especially Ince)!!!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2019 12:28:30 GMT
I dunno mate I forgive them by being at every home game and three away so far this season. How do you pay your penance? But but but....... you just said that Stoke’s offenses are unforgivable, yet now you have forgiven them? As for me, my penance is paid by my good wife who has to put up with me being grumpy and sporadic outbursts of “Idiots!”, “Blooming Morons!”, “Pathetic!”, etc for about 24 hours. Then I’m right as rain again. Must be 50+ years of training that allows me to put it behind me and hope for better in the future. Mr Boks, You are obviously much more pleasantly spoken and restrained when experiencing the Snake Oil managers ineptitude. My return to the household is more a Ripping Yarns type escapade with expletives (some of which are physically impossible for him to do) My good lady wife sends me off down the ex service club to calm down with copious amounts of alcohol ! GD
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Post by FullerMagic on Oct 29, 2019 10:19:07 GMT
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on Oct 29, 2019 10:57:34 GMT
I’ve wanted to believe in our manager, but that faith and belief has been knocked out of me.
Pretty much sums up where I am!
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Post by Alvechurch Assassin on Oct 29, 2019 12:02:41 GMT
I don't see where there is any argument now, he has dug a hole so deep that he would need to win at least 5 games on the trot to avoid a complete breakdown of support following any other result. There's no way out of this apart from relieving him of his duties immediately.
He isn't astute enough to manage at this level.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 29, 2019 12:40:03 GMT
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh the hokey cokey.
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Post by lordb on Oct 29, 2019 12:44:21 GMT
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh the hokey cokey. What's John Halls got to do with this?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2019 14:10:31 GMT
The club won't sack him until the fans turn on him at the bet365
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Post by dreamtheater on Oct 29, 2019 14:59:27 GMT
Having read this latest slice of 'vanilla cake' journalism from the author I can say this. I was never the best fan, never claimed to be but for definite,I was never in denial about our predicament for a single instant. After three years though I hardly imagined how this complete and utter shit show would unfold (and continues to do so) as spectacularly and disastrously as it has done. At every single turn, these hapless incompetent bozos currently in charge, have just made it worse and continue to be employed !!!. I am thoroughly disgusted with the stance of the owners right now who, need a bloody serious wake up call from their seemingly unending complacency and, their completely misplaced loyalty to, a way beyond incompetent Chief Executive and associated cronies. This has already become beneath contempt to my eyes. Most of all, I am angry ... very fucking angry this is being allowed to continue without those most responsible, not being dismissed as they wouldve been, in any other walk of life, ages ago.
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Nov 5, 2019 11:40:27 GMT
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Post by rabbigan on Nov 5, 2019 12:00:31 GMT
I have looked forward to and enjoyed many articles by Smudge in both the Oatcake Mag and the Sentinel. He is a totally committed Stoke supporter and has put in his time at the coal face so to speak
However I have to take massive disagreement with his recent Sentinel article. I quote: "jones seemed like the perfect man to takeover and turn Rowetts dour team into something better" The Rowett "dour team" after 26 matches were 3 points behind Aston Villa who were promoted.
"it was a bold and imaginative appointment by Stoke" No it wasnt it was an ill thought out and risky appointment to take a manager with limited time in the job and virtually no success. A bold and imaginative appointment would have got us a good experienced manager who knew and understood the Championship and what was needed to be done. Such manager would hopefully know how to handle players and understand what was needed for this division and not be stuck on some "Diamond" as the only way forward.
The management decision was stupid ,extremely risky ,and has been proved so. It is unlikely after 2 wins in 15 that we can avoid relegation whoever we appoint but the idiots who put us in this position will still be there whatever happens.
If no one failed to notice the difference in our situation to that of the Baggies then lets point out they were relegated with us with fewer points. They now top this division with an Internationally respected manager. We can start to resign ourselves to soon to be resurrected fixtures against Crewe and Vale as a result of more imaginative and bold actions by the Board.
Villa and Sheffield United were successes as a result of good decisions by their respective boards. If I am to understand correctly John Coates appointed Jones because one of Coates mates had met Jones and said he was a good bloke.
That sounds about right to me based on the dross we have bought based on similar unresearched information.
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Post by y_oh_y_delilah on Nov 5, 2019 12:03:16 GMT
How dare you contradict Smudge? 😉
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Post by dreamtheater on Nov 5, 2019 12:03:35 GMT
A good read this time around. My take is also firmly -Tony Pulis was never wine and roses but - it became one dimensional -dire even and so, he had to go
BUT - he is EXACTLY the kick up the arse this football club needs right now and - he's really got to be able do it before Saturday too.
He will be invested - committed of that you can be assured and, he will move fast to arrest our slippage toward oblivion - of that you can be sure too.
I also reckon putting such a 'cat' amongst the pigeons in the clubs off pitch hierarchy would be not only necessary but a deliocous 'shock and awe, wake up call' for them.
and, exactly what is needed there too
SO
(Jon Coates & Tony Scholes - this man does not suffer fools either so, IF you have the clubs interest at heart and even, have the balls to do
this, it may well become - SHAPE UP or SHIP OUT for you sorry performers too!)
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Post by sheikhmomo on Nov 5, 2019 12:22:00 GMT
I have looked forward to and enjoyed many articles by Smudge in both the Oatcake Mag and the Sentinel. He is a totally committed Stoke supporter and has put in his time at the coal face so to speak However I have to take massive disagreement with his recent Sentinel article. I quote: "jones seemed like the perfect man to takeover and turn Rowetts dour team into something better" The Rowett "dour team" after 26 matches were 3 points behind Aston Villa who were promoted. "it was a bold and imaginative appointment by Stoke" No it wasnt it was an ill thought out and risky appointment to take a manager with limited time in the job and virtually no success. A bold and imaginative appointment would have got us a good experienced manager who knew and understood the Championship and what was needed to be done. Such manager would hopefully know how to handle players and understand what was needed for this division and not be stuck on some "Diamond" as the only way forward. The management decision was stupid ,extremely risky ,and has been proved so. It is unlikely after 2 wins in 15 that we can avoid relegation whoever we appoint but the idiots who put us in this position will still be there whatever happens. If no one failed to notice the difference in our situation to that of the Baggies then lets point out they were relegated with us with fewer points. They now top this division with an Internationally respected manager. We can start to resign ourselves to soon to be resurrected fixtures against Crewe and Vale as a result of more imaginative and bold actions by the Board. Villa and Sheffield United were successes as a result of good decisions by their respective boards. If I am to understand correctly John Coates appointed Jones because one of Coates mates had met Jones and said he was a good bloke. That sounds about right to me based on the dross we have bought based on similar unresearched information. The only thing I disagree with in that article is the assertion that Nathan Jones was ‘one of the worst managers in our history’. Absolutely untrue. He is by far and away the worst manager in our history.
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Post by spiderpuss on Nov 5, 2019 17:36:44 GMT
I have looked forward to and enjoyed many articles by Smudge in both the Oatcake Mag and the Sentinel. He is a totally committed Stoke supporter and has put in his time at the coal face so to speak However I have to take massive disagreement with his recent Sentinel article. I quote: "jones seemed like the perfect man to takeover and turn Rowetts dour team into something better" The Rowett "dour team" after 26 matches were 3 points behind Aston Villa who were promoted. "it was a bold and imaginative appointment by Stoke" No it wasnt it was an ill thought out and risky appointment to take a manager with limited time in the job and virtually no success. A bold and imaginative appointment would have got us a good experienced manager who knew and understood the Championship and what was needed to be done. Such manager would hopefully know how to handle players and understand what was needed for this division and not be stuck on some "Diamond" as the only way forward. The management decision was stupid ,extremely risky ,and has been proved so. It is unlikely after 2 wins in 15 that we can avoid relegation whoever we appoint but the idiots who put us in this position will still be there whatever happens. If no one failed to notice the difference in our situation to that of the Baggies then lets point out they were relegated with us with fewer points. They now top this division with an Internationally respected manager. We can start to resign ourselves to soon to be resurrected fixtures against Crewe and Vale as a result of more imaginative and bold actions by the Board. Villa and Sheffield United were successes as a result of good decisions by their respective boards. If I am to understand correctly John Coates appointed Jones because one of Coates mates had met Jones and said he was a good bloke. That sounds about right to me based on the dross we have bought based on similar unresearched information. The only thing I disagree with in that article is the assertion that Nathan Jones was ‘one of the worst managers in our history’. Absolutely untrue. He is by far and away the worst manager in our history. Can't disagree with that. Stats wise, the other candidate is Kammy. Kammy had barely no money, didn't have a full pre-season, didn't sign 12 players and didn't have the backroom or the academy backing that modern managers do. To fail on this industrial scale, takes some doing.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Nov 5, 2019 17:47:33 GMT
I have looked forward to and enjoyed many articles by Smudge in both the Oatcake Mag and the Sentinel. He is a totally committed Stoke supporter and has put in his time at the coal face so to speak However I have to take massive disagreement with his recent Sentinel article. I quote: "jones seemed like the perfect man to takeover and turn Rowetts dour team into something better" The Rowett "dour team" after 26 matches were 3 points behind Aston Villa who were promoted. "it was a bold and imaginative appointment by Stoke" No it wasnt it was an ill thought out and risky appointment to take a manager with limited time in the job and virtually no success. A bold and imaginative appointment would have got us a good experienced manager who knew and understood the Championship and what was needed to be done. Such manager would hopefully know how to handle players and understand what was needed for this division and not be stuck on some "Diamond" as the only way forward. The management decision was stupid ,extremely risky ,and has been proved so. It is unlikely after 2 wins in 15 that we can avoid relegation whoever we appoint but the idiots who put us in this position will still be there whatever happens. If no one failed to notice the difference in our situation to that of the Baggies then lets point out they were relegated with us with fewer points. They now top this division with an Internationally respected manager. We can start to resign ourselves to soon to be resurrected fixtures against Crewe and Vale as a result of more imaginative and bold actions by the Board. Villa and Sheffield United were successes as a result of good decisions by their respective boards. If I am to understand correctly John Coates appointed Jones because one of Coates mates had met Jones and said he was a good bloke. That sounds about right to me based on the dross we have bought based on similar unresearched information. Rowett's team was dour. What you don't mention about Villa is that they were themselves not in the hunt at that time. It took Smith acclimatising to get them up the table. When Rowett was (rightly) sacked we were 14th and Villa were 10th.
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Post by supersimonstainrod on Nov 5, 2019 18:01:00 GMT
I have looked forward to and enjoyed many articles by Smudge in both the Oatcake Mag and the Sentinel. He is a totally committed Stoke supporter and has put in his time at the coal face so to speak However I have to take massive disagreement with his recent Sentinel article. I quote: "jones seemed like the perfect man to takeover and turn Rowetts dour team into something better" The Rowett "dour team" after 26 matches were 3 points behind Aston Villa who were promoted. "it was a bold and imaginative appointment by Stoke" No it wasnt it was an ill thought out and risky appointment to take a manager with limited time in the job and virtually no success. A bold and imaginative appointment would have got us a good experienced manager who knew and understood the Championship and what was needed to be done. Such manager would hopefully know how to handle players and understand what was needed for this division and not be stuck on some "Diamond" as the only way forward. The management decision was stupid ,extremely risky ,and has been proved so. It is unlikely after 2 wins in 15 that we can avoid relegation whoever we appoint but the idiots who put us in this position will still be there whatever happens. If no one failed to notice the difference in our situation to that of the Baggies then lets point out they were relegated with us with fewer points. They now top this division with an Internationally respected manager. We can start to resign ourselves to soon to be resurrected fixtures against Crewe and Vale as a result of more imaginative and bold actions by the Board. Villa and Sheffield United were successes as a result of good decisions by their respective boards. If I am to understand correctly John Coates appointed Jones because one of Coates mates had met Jones and said he was a good bloke. That sounds about right to me based on the dross we have bought based on similar unresearched information. Rowett's team was dour. What you don't mention about Villa is that they were themselves not in the hunt at that time. It took Smith acclimatising to get them up the table. When Rowett was (rightly) sacked we were 14th and Villa were 10th. Indeed Toxic,there were many Villa fans doubting Smith's suitability for the job in and around January,their remarkable run negated the unrest. I think Smith's success may point to why we've waited too long to dismiss Jones (along with the Coates's avowed emotional loyalty): if you appoint a 'philosophy' manager you have to give them time to embed their philosophy. Our misfortune is that there are/has been little to no tangible signs of coherent improvement.
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Post by BristolMick on Nov 5, 2019 18:12:37 GMT
I f no one failed to notice the difference in our situation to that of the Baggies then lets point out they were relegated with us with fewer points. They now top this division with an Internationally respected manager. We can start to resign ourselves to soon to be resurrected fixtures against Crewe and Vale as a result of more imaginative and bold actions by the Board. And this very succinct observation just about sums up the total and utter incompetence of Coates senior, Coates junior, Scholes and Cartwright. A club in a crisis of its own making! The Coates family seem to revel in this reputation they seem to have for giving managers time as if it buys them some sort of special respect amongst potential managers and players. Epitomised by the "What's all the fuss about" comment when we were in freefall out of the Premier League. The truth is whilst people not connected to the club might think its a refreshing approach in todays mad world of hire and fire its actually an extremely inept approach and doesn't actually attract the best coaches, managers or players to come to Stoke in fact it might well do the opposite! Keeping faith and rewarding failure is the Coates model and its very likely now that their regime will achieve relegation to the third tier for the third time!! The previous two times might have been blamed on relative lack of resources but this time it is only pure and undiluted diabolical incompetence from the fab four, three of whom are still in position. The club is an utter mess run by ponderous halfwits who haven't got a clue how to get out of it! BM
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Post by tony1234 on Nov 5, 2019 18:33:22 GMT
I have looked forward to and enjoyed many articles by Smudge in both the Oatcake Mag and the Sentinel. He is a totally committed Stoke supporter and has put in his time at the coal face so to speak However I have to take massive disagreement with his recent Sentinel article. I quote: "jones seemed like the perfect man to takeover and turn Rowetts dour team into something better" The Rowett "dour team" after 26 matches were 3 points behind Aston Villa who were promoted. "it was a bold and imaginative appointment by Stoke" No it wasnt it was an ill thought out and risky appointment to take a manager with limited time in the job and virtually no success. A bold and imaginative appointment would have got us a good experienced manager who knew and understood the Championship and what was needed to be done. Such manager would hopefully know how to handle players and understand what was needed for this division and not be stuck on some "Diamond" as the only way forward. The management decision was stupid ,extremely risky ,and has been proved so. It is unlikely after 2 wins in 15 that we can avoid relegation whoever we appoint but the idiots who put us in this position will still be there whatever happens. If no one failed to notice the difference in our situation to that of the Baggies then lets point out they were relegated with us with fewer points. They now top this division with an Internationally respected manager. We can start to resign ourselves to soon to be resurrected fixtures against Crewe and Vale as a result of more imaginative and bold actions by the Board. Villa and Sheffield United were successes as a result of good decisions by their respective boards. If I am to understand correctly John Coates appointed Jones because one of Coates mates had met Jones and said he was a good bloke. That sounds about right to me based on the dross we have bought based on similar unresearched information. Yes - absolutely correct. If you look back over promoted managers in the past 5-6 years, Bilic is also exactly the pedigree to get a team up. (As is Biesla). As was Farke, Gil (DOF at Villa), Wagner, Jokanavic. The other successful sorts being a) ones whove done it before (Bruce, Warnock, Hughton), b) managers who've grown with their team (Howe and Wilder). Only Neil has bucked the trend of lower league manager getting a team up other than one he'd built. For a team going for a promotion, getting Jones was like buying a paddle boat to get to the moon. But until our owners pick key personnel for reasons other than blood line or because they are simpering, over grateful village idiots, its the risk we run. Now, we couldn't probably get one of those managers in either of those two camps (management experience in a 'elite set up, or past success with a Champs club) even if we could afford it, because they would diagnose our dysfunction a country mile away. Another breed of manager to now turn our attention to is "who has taken over a Champs club in or near the relegation zone and steered them out of trouble." Odds don't look good (15 succeesses and 18 failures from managers taking over clubs 20th or below. 13 out of 31 got their team to move 3 or more places upwards.), and when you look at the average positions they've got teams to shift, its not that many. But does seem to favour seasoned British managers with league experience. Warnock, Bruce and Hughton look like guys to get (unrealistically)! Much as he is unfashionable, McClaran has got previous with Derby, plus he steadied the dysfunctional mob at QPR and kept them safe. "No thanks" to Cook, Harris, Warne or others of that ilk. And Cotterill is a walking relegation-place magnet. 18/19 Gomes succeeded at Reading (21st in Dec, ended 20th) Lambert failed at Ipswich (24th in Oct, ended 24th) 17/18 Cotterill failed at Birm C (24th in Sept - sacked when 22nd in March) Coleman failed at Sundld (22nd in Oct, sacked when 24th in April) Adkins succeeded at Hull (20th in Dec, ended 18th) Morais failed at Barnsley (21st in Feb, ended 22nd) Monk succeeded at Birm C (22nd in March, ended 19th) Ross failed at Sunderland (24th in Apr, ended 24th) 16/17 Bruce succeeded at AV (19th in Oct, ended 13th) Warnock succeeded at Cardiff (23rd in Oct, ended 12th) McClaran succeeded at Derby (20th in Oct, ended 9th) Jackett failed at Rotherham (24th in Oct, ended 24th) Joyce failed at Wigan (23rd in Oct, ended 23rd) Warne failed at Rotherham (24th in Nov, ended 24th) Warburton succeede at NF (21st in Jan, ended 20th) Mowbray failed at Blackburn (23rd in Feb, ended 22nd) Cook failed at Wigan (23rd in Feb, ended 23rd) Redknapp succeeded at Birm (20th in Apr, ended 19th) 15/16 Carsley succeeded at Brentford (19th in Sept, interim spell ended at 11th in Nov) Redfearn failed at Rotherham (20th in Ocot, sacked when 22nd in Feb) Riga failed at Charlton (22nd in Oct, sacked when 22nd in May) Johnson succeeded at Bristol C (22nd in Feb, ended 18th) Warnock succeeded at Rotherhan (22nd in Feb, ended 21st) Parkinson failed at Bolton (24th in Mar, ended 24th) 14/15 Powell succeeded at Huddersfd (24th in Sept, ended 16th) Milanic failed at Leeds (21st in Sept, sacked when 18th in Oct) Symons succeed at Fulham (24th in Oct, ended 17th) Lennon succeded at Bolton (23rd in Oct, ended 18th) Rowett succeeded at Birm City (21st in Oct, ended 10th) Clarke failed at Blackpool (24th in Oct, ended 24th) McKay failed at Wigan (22nd in Nov, sacked when 23rd in Apr) Hughton succeeded at Brighton (22nd in Dec, ended 20th) Harris failed at Maillwall (23rd in Apr, ended 22nd) Caldwell failed at Wigan (23rd in Apr, ended 23rd)
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Nov 6, 2019 8:04:39 GMT
I have looked forward to and enjoyed many articles by Smudge in both the Oatcake Mag and the Sentinel. He is a totally committed Stoke supporter and has put in his time at the coal face so to speak However I have to take massive disagreement with his recent Sentinel article. I quote: "jones seemed like the perfect man to takeover and turn Rowetts dour team into something better" The Rowett "dour team" after 26 matches were 3 points behind Aston Villa who were promoted. "it was a bold and imaginative appointment by Stoke" No it wasnt it was an ill thought out and risky appointment to take a manager with limited time in the job and virtually no success. A bold and imaginative appointment would have got us a good experienced manager who knew and understood the Championship and what was needed to be done. Such manager would hopefully know how to handle players and understand what was needed for this division and not be stuck on some "Diamond" as the only way forward. The management decision was stupid ,extremely risky ,and has been proved so. It is unlikely after 2 wins in 15 that we can avoid relegation whoever we appoint but the idiots who put us in this position will still be there whatever happens. If no one failed to notice the difference in our situation to that of the Baggies then lets point out they were relegated with us with fewer points. They now top this division with an Internationally respected manager. We can start to resign ourselves to soon to be resurrected fixtures against Crewe and Vale as a result of more imaginative and bold actions by the Board. Villa and Sheffield United were successes as a result of good decisions by their respective boards. If I am to understand correctly John Coates appointed Jones because one of Coates mates had met Jones and said he was a good bloke. That sounds about right to me based on the dross we have bought based on similar unresearched information. Yes - absolutely correct. If you look back over promoted managers in the past 5-6 years, Bilic is also exactly the pedigree to get a team up. (As is Biesla). As was Farke, Gil (DOF at Villa), Wagner, Jokanavic. The other successful sorts being a) ones whove done it before (Bruce, Warnock, Hughton), b) managers who've grown with their team (Howe and Wilder). Only Neil has bucked the trend of lower league manager getting a team up other than one he'd built. For a team going for a promotion, getting Jones was like buying a paddle boat to get to the moon. But until our owners pick key personnel for reasons other than blood line or because they are simpering, over grateful village idiots, its the risk we run. Now, we couldn't probably get one of those managers in either of those two camps (management experience in a 'elite set up, or past success with a Champs club) even if we could afford it, because they would diagnose our dysfunction a country mile away. Another breed of manager to now turn our attention to is "who has taken over a Champs club in or near the relegation zone and steered them out of trouble." Odds don't look good (15 succeesses and 18 failures from managers taking over clubs 20th or below. 13 out of 31 got their team to move 3 or more places upwards.), and when you look at the average positions they've got teams to shift, its not that many. But does seem to favour seasoned British managers with league experience. Warnock, Bruce and Hughton look like guys to get (unrealistically)! Much as he is unfashionable, McClaran has got previous with Derby, plus he steadied the dysfunctional mob at QPR and kept them safe. "No thanks" to Cook, Harris, Warne or others of that ilk. And Cotterill is a walking relegation-place magnet. 18/19 Gomes succeeded at Reading (21st in Dec, ended 20th) Lambert failed at Ipswich (24th in Oct, ended 24th) 17/18 Cotterill failed at Birm C (24th in Sept - sacked when 22nd in March) Coleman failed at Sundld (22nd in Oct, sacked when 24th in April) Adkins succeeded at Hull (20th in Dec, ended 18th) Morais failed at Barnsley (21st in Feb, ended 22nd) Monk succeeded at Birm C (22nd in March, ended 19th) Ross failed at Sunderland (24th in Apr, ended 24th) 16/17 Bruce succeeded at AV (19th in Oct, ended 13th) Warnock succeeded at Cardiff (23rd in Oct, ended 12th) McClaran succeeded at Derby (20th in Oct, ended 9th) Jackett failed at Rotherham (24th in Oct, ended 24th) Joyce failed at Wigan (23rd in Oct, ended 23rd) Warne failed at Rotherham (24th in Nov, ended 24th) Warburton succeede at NF (21st in Jan, ended 20th) Mowbray failed at Blackburn (23rd in Feb, ended 22nd) Cook failed at Wigan (23rd in Feb, ended 23rd) Redknapp succeeded at Birm (20th in Apr, ended 19th) 15/16 Carsley succeeded at Brentford (19th in Sept, interim spell ended at 11th in Nov) Redfearn failed at Rotherham (20th in Ocot, sacked when 22nd in Feb) Riga failed at Charlton (22nd in Oct, sacked when 22nd in May) Johnson succeeded at Bristol C (22nd in Feb, ended 18th) Warnock succeeded at Rotherhan (22nd in Feb, ended 21st) Parkinson failed at Bolton (24th in Mar, ended 24th) 14/15 Powell succeeded at Huddersfd (24th in Sept, ended 16th) Milanic failed at Leeds (21st in Sept, sacked when 18th in Oct) Symons succeed at Fulham (24th in Oct, ended 17th) Lennon succeded at Bolton (23rd in Oct, ended 18th) Rowett succeeded at Birm City (21st in Oct, ended 10th) Clarke failed at Blackpool (24th in Oct, ended 24th) McKay failed at Wigan (22nd in Nov, sacked when 23rd in Apr) Hughton succeeded at Brighton (22nd in Dec, ended 20th) Harris failed at Maillwall (23rd in Apr, ended 22nd) Caldwell failed at Wigan (23rd in Apr, ended 23rd) Are you giving Gil so much credit for the Villa role because it would damage your argument to give the credit to Dean Smith?
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