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Post by GoBoks on Sept 12, 2019 19:02:20 GMT
Try reading the post. Why did man city sign Balotelli? Why did Liverpool sign Andy Carrol? Etc etc. Presumably because of their past goal scoring records as strikers, they also had less to lose by making mistakes on the other hand we had a hell of a lot to lose our bad buys which played a massive part in relegation from the PL, all this mess has been overseen by the board. Or presumably because sometimes deals don't work out as planned. If they did, everyone would be Manchester United. I am pretty sure many of those condemning our club now were among those shouting "you have to speculate to accumulate" when people were moaning about how tight fisted the owners were.
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Post by GoBoks on Sept 12, 2019 19:04:24 GMT
It’s not hindsight is it? There was quite a few people who wanted him gone after the Arsenal game and most wouldn’t have batted an eyelid about it then. The 4000 at the end of the game that stayed were testament to the apathy around that whole campaign. No hindsight needed. If we look at the 4th season of Hughes he finished 13th, 2 points off 8th place. There is no way Peter Coates could have sacked Hughes at that point, he was right to let him start his 5th season in charge in my opinion. It then becomes an issue of how far into that season should Coates have allowed Hughes to continue after such a poor start, he probably gave him around 13 games to many. I have no problem with a manager having a poor season, it appears in football today though that most fans will not tolerate that. An additional thought, having waited the 13 games too long, I believe that Hughes would have found the points to keep us up if we'd kept him till the end of the season.
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Post by geoff321 on Sept 12, 2019 19:10:30 GMT
On this thread and many others Peter Coates is being described as apathetic, indecisive, too loyal, old fool etc. So lets look at the facts over the last 6 years: Sacks Tony Pulis, one of the best ever Stoke managers by record. Sacks Mark Hughes, one of the best Stoke managers by record. Sacks Paul Lambert after just 15 games. Sacks Gary Rowett after just 29 games. The above actions by Peter Coates suggests to me that far from being an indecisive, out of date old fool, in fact he is both decisive and even ruthless. The core issue is they didn’t ever tackle the “ elephant in the room “ the root cause the chief executive snd the process he’s overseen, they as owners have sadly missed the issue closest to home and most destructive force , there isn’t a proper football man in the board room other than peter and that’s killed us , I have no idea about how much blame should be placed at the door of the CEO. Perhaps in previous posts you have given hard evidence of how the performance of Tony Scholes has had a direct effect on results on the pitch.
Much of what I have read on here about him sounds like people are looking for a scapegoat but with little supporting evidence, unless we know what his involvement is in transfer decisions is it's hard to judge.
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Post by numpty40 on Sept 12, 2019 19:10:33 GMT
Total heads gone interview. Get someone in who knows football ffs you doddering fool. Won promotion from two divisions for Luton, Has been in football since 1990. He defo knows football. It was that CV that had me onside and I even gave him half of last season to assess the squad with no questions asked in the belief that the close season would see the introduction of young hungry athletic players to replace the dross. The close season brought us Lindsey, Ward, Carthorse-Vickers, Cousins, Duffy and Gregory to add to the two prime athletes previously signed by Jones of Batth and Vokes. To even consider that those signings could make a half decent attempt at promotion shows how badly out of his depth Jones is. The close season transfer business did it for me.
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Post by hogansgoals on Sept 12, 2019 19:11:28 GMT
It’s not hindsight is it? There was quite a few people who wanted him gone after the Arsenal game and most wouldn’t have batted an eyelid about it then. The 4000 at the end of the game that stayed were testament to the apathy around that whole campaign. No hindsight needed. If we look at the 4th season of Hughes he finished 13th, 2 points off 8th place. There is no way Peter Coates could have sacked Hughes at that point, he was right to let him start his 5th season in charge in my opinion. It then becomes an issue of how far into that season should Coates have allowed Hughes to continue after such a poor start, he probably gave him around 13 games to many. I have no problem with a manager having a poor season, it appears in football today though that most fans will not tolerate that. that season we finished 13th was the season we started leaking three or four each match . Hughes should have gone
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Post by geoff321 on Sept 12, 2019 19:14:13 GMT
If we look at the 4th season of Hughes he finished 13th, 2 points off 8th place. There is no way Peter Coates could have sacked Hughes at that point, he was right to let him start his 5th season in charge in my opinion. It then becomes an issue of how far into that season should Coates have allowed Hughes to continue after such a poor start, he probably gave him around 13 games to many. I have no problem with a manager having a poor season, it appears in football today though that most fans will not tolerate that. An additional thought, having waited the 13 games too long, I believe that Hughes would have found the points to keep us up if we'd kept him till the end of the season. Yes I think you're correct.
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Post by GoBoks on Sept 12, 2019 19:22:48 GMT
Won promotion from two divisions for Luton, Has been in football since 1990. He defo knows football. It was that CV that had me onside and I even gave him half of last season to assess the squad with no questions asked in the belief that the close season would see the introduction of young hungry athletic players to replace the dross. The close season brought us Lindsey, Ward, Carthorse-Vickers, Cousins, Duffy and Gregory to add to the two prime athletes previously signed by Jones of Batth and Vokes. To even consider that those signings could make a half decent attempt at promotion shows how badly out of his depth Jones is. The close season transfer business did it for me. Very kind of you to have "given" him half a season. Thankfully you don't have any say on any decisions related to Stoke. Just as a matter of interest, what are you going to be saying if the owners decide to give Jones a 3 year "grace period" to rebuild and retool the team?
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Post by mrcoke on Sept 12, 2019 19:27:20 GMT
If we look at the 4th season of Hughes he finished 13th, 2 points off 8th place. There is no way Peter Coates could have sacked Hughes at that point, he was right to let him start his 5th season in charge in my opinion. It then becomes an issue of how far into that season should Coates have allowed Hughes to continue after such a poor start, he probably gave him around 13 games to many. I have no problem with a manager having a poor season, it appears in football today though that most fans will not tolerate that. An additional thought, having waited the 13 games too long, I believe that Hughes would have found the points to keep us up if we'd kept him till the end of the season. I agree with your first statement in hindsight. I turned against Hughes when we lost playing terribly to West Ham. Unfortunately we beat a very poor West Brom which kept Hughes in position till January. We will never know what might have happened if Hughes had stayed, but I did my own analysis and came to the opinion we might have won more than Lambert achieved but we would probably would have lost some of the matches Lambert drew. I judged we could have got a couple of more points, but a worse GD and would still have been relegated - all just conjecture of course.
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Post by GoBoks on Sept 12, 2019 19:35:11 GMT
An additional thought, having waited the 13 games too long, I believe that Hughes would have found the points to keep us up if we'd kept him till the end of the season. I agree with your first statement in hindsight. I turned against Hughes when we lost playing terribly to West Ham. Unfortunately we beat a very poor West Brom which kept Hughes in position till January. We will never know what might have happened if Hughes had stayed, but I did my own analysis and came to the opinion we might have won more than Lambert achieved but we would probably would have lost some of the matches Lambert drew. I judged we could have got a couple of more points, but a worse GD and would still have been relegated - all just conjecture of course. Hind sight is a marvelous thing! It would seem that the average lifespan of a middle of a manager should be 4-5 years. After that, I'd be tempted to ditch them regardless of how they're doing. The exception (Sir Alex, of course) comes along so infrequently it's not worth taking the gamble. I think there should be "transfer windows" (more like "firing windows") for managers. That way, appointments will be made more thoughtfully and fewer knee jerk reactions will occur.
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Post by numpty40 on Sept 12, 2019 19:36:17 GMT
It was that CV that had me onside and I even gave him half of last season to assess the squad with no questions asked in the belief that the close season would see the introduction of young hungry athletic players to replace the dross. The close season brought us Lindsey, Ward, Carthorse-Vickers, Cousins, Duffy and Gregory to add to the two prime athletes previously signed by Jones of Batth and Vokes. To even consider that those signings could make a half decent attempt at promotion shows how badly out of his depth Jones is. The close season transfer business did it for me. Very kind of you to have "given" him half a season. Thankfully you don't have any say on any decisions related to Stoke. Just as a matter of interest, what are you going to be saying if the owners decide to give Jones a 3 year "grace period" to rebuild and retool the team? As you say I don't have any say on decisions related to Stoke City so therefore my giving him half a season is really quite irrelevant. Therefore why do you value my opinion if the club give him a 3 year "grace period"?
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Post by GoBoks on Sept 12, 2019 19:38:58 GMT
Very kind of you to have "given" him half a season. Thankfully you don't have any say on any decisions related to Stoke. Just as a matter of interest, what are you going to be saying if the owners decide to give Jones a 3 year "grace period" to rebuild and retool the team? As you say I don't have any say on decisions related to Stoke City so therefore my giving him half a season is really quite irrelevant. Therefore why do you value my opinion if the club give him a 3 year "grace period"? Not so much value as concerned for a fellow Stokie's mental health.
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Post by numpty40 on Sept 12, 2019 19:43:07 GMT
As you say I don't have any say on decisions related to Stoke City so therefore my giving him half a season is really quite irrelevant. Therefore why do you value my opinion if the club give him a 3 year "grace period"? Not so much value as concerned for a fellow Stokie's mental health. Relax, I'm fine...as for you
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Post by GoBoks on Sept 12, 2019 19:50:35 GMT
Not so much value as concerned for a fellow Stokie's mental health. Relax, I'm fine...as for you Crikey! I'd hate to see you when you get agitated!
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Post by thehoof on Sept 12, 2019 19:56:46 GMT
It was that CV that had me onside and I even gave him half of last season to assess the squad with no questions asked in the belief that the close season would see the introduction of young hungry athletic players to replace the dross. The close season brought us Lindsey, Ward, Carthorse-Vickers, Cousins, Duffy and Gregory to add to the two prime athletes previously signed by Jones of Batth and Vokes. To even consider that those signings could make a half decent attempt at promotion shows how badly out of his depth Jones is. The close season transfer business did it for me. Very kind of you to have "given" him half a season. Thankfully you don't have any say on any decisions related to Stoke. Just as a matter of interest, what are you going to be saying if the owners decide to give Jones a 3 year "grace period" to rebuild and retool the team? It depends what the FFP rules are for a Div 2 team.😰
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Post by numpty40 on Sept 12, 2019 20:02:28 GMT
Relax, I'm fine...as for you Crikey! I'd hate to see you when you get agitated! You do seem a bit of a drama queen.
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Post by iglugluk on Sept 12, 2019 20:27:40 GMT
That interview pretty much gaurentees he’s got 4 games bear minimum. Scary level of 'patience' for want of a better word Ps i assume you actually meant 'bare' minimum?
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Post by GoBoks on Sept 12, 2019 21:05:29 GMT
Crikey! I'd hate to see you when you get agitated! You do seem a bit of a drama queen. At least I don’t get hysterical if the manager doesn’t play the players I want him to play.
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Post by crapslinger on Sept 12, 2019 21:26:40 GMT
You do seem a bit of a drama queen. At least I don’t get hysterical if the manager doesn’t play the players I want him to play. Out of interest who would you want him to play ?
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Post by GoBoks on Sept 12, 2019 21:43:05 GMT
At least I don’t get hysterical if the manager doesn’t play the players I want him to play. Out of interest who would you want him to play? I want him to play the team he feels has the greatest chance of winning. I expect him to use the information gained from practice, medical staff, scouting, etc. I do not want him to play people, simply because they are popular or unpoular with fans, or based on reputation.
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Post by Pugsley on Sept 12, 2019 21:45:21 GMT
Out of interest who would you want him to play? I want him to play the team he feels has the greatest chance of winning. I expect him to use the information gained from practice, medical staff, scouting, etc. I do not want him to play people, simply because they are popular or unpoular with fans, or based on reputation. Oh dear. Surely you have an opinion?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 12, 2019 23:44:39 GMT
It’s not hindsight is it? There was quite a few people who wanted him gone after the Arsenal game and most wouldn’t have batted an eyelid about it then. The 4000 at the end of the game that stayed were testament to the apathy around that whole campaign. No hindsight needed. If we look at the 4th season of Hughes he finished 13th, 2 points off 8th place. There is no way Peter Coates could have sacked Hughes at that point, he was right to let him start his 5th season in charge in my opinion. It then becomes an issue of how far into that season should Coates have allowed Hughes to continue after such a poor start, he probably gave him around 13 games to many. I have no problem with a manager having a poor season, it appears in football today though that most fans will not tolerate that. Of course he could. Every warning sign there. It was a complete failure not to sack him after the Arsenal game. He was fiddling whilst Rome was burning and continues to pay the price.
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Post by marrer on Sept 13, 2019 3:47:31 GMT
At least I don’t get hysterical if the manager doesn’t play the players I want him to play. Out of interest who would you want him to play ? Is like him to play Hanley Town. I’d love to see a win.
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Post by lawrieleslie on Sept 13, 2019 6:09:19 GMT
You’ve been saying this head in the sand crap for 4 years now. And you’ve be complaining for the past 8 years. Stoke is what it is, no matter how much you complain or insult fellow supporters for their views, it’s not going to change - certainly not through being a keyboard warrior! If you want to bring about change so much, why not do something useful, like raise a consortium to buy out the current owners, instead of simply moaning about everything the club does? And you harangue me for my opinion calling me an attention seeker for having one. Jeez mate this is a message board get a life.
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Post by Goonie on Sept 13, 2019 6:33:46 GMT
The oft dreaded 'vote of confidence' from the owner. A few more defeats then hes off surely?
Hope he can turn it round, just hoping......
Edit: My predictive text originally said 'condolence '!
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Post by Goonie on Sept 13, 2019 6:35:58 GMT
Out of interest who would you want him to play ? Is like him to play Hanley Town. I’d love to see a win. You a Hanley Town fan then? 🤔😁😎
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Post by Gary Hackett on Sept 13, 2019 9:07:55 GMT
If we look at the 4th season of Hughes he finished 13th, 2 points off 8th place. There is no way Peter Coates could have sacked Hughes at that point, he was right to let him start his 5th season in charge in my opinion. It then becomes an issue of how far into that season should Coates have allowed Hughes to continue after such a poor start, he probably gave him around 13 games to many. I have no problem with a manager having a poor season, it appears in football today though that most fans will not tolerate that. that season we finished 13th was the season we started leaking three or four each match . Hughes should have gone It all started March / April 2016 when Butland got injured and Haugaard started shipping 3 or 4 every game. We never recovered from that.
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Post by geoff321 on Sept 13, 2019 9:47:11 GMT
If you look at the defensive record of Stoke as a PL club it's relatively stable.
For instance we conceded 55 goals in season 8/9.
53 goals in season 11/12.
52 goals in season 13/14.
55 goals in season 15/16.
56 goals in season 16/17.
In season 16/17 the heavy defeats were all against the top 6 teams.
Also in that season 8 teams conceded more goals than Stoke,we finished 1 win off a 8th place finish and 1O points clear of relegation.
It's fairly clear that a minor decline had started under Mark Hughes, but the stats show it wasn't a dramatic decline, for Coates to have sacked him at the end of 16/17 would have been wrong in my opinion.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2019 10:04:06 GMT
If you look at the defensive record of Stoke as a PL club it's relatively stable. For instance we conceded 55 goals in season 8/9. 53 goals in season 11/12. 52 goals in season 13/14. 55 goals in season 15/16. 56 goals in season 16/17. In season 16/17 the heavy defeats were all against the top 6 teams. Also in that season 8 teams conceded more goals than Stoke,we finished 1 win off a 8th place finish and 1O points clear of relegation. It's fairly clear that a minor decline had started under Mark Hughes, but the stats show it wasn't a dramatic decline, for Coates to have sacked him at the end of 16/17 would have been wrong in my opinion. If we keep up our average for the first 6 games we’ll be conceding 115 this season 😂
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Post by geoff321 on Sept 13, 2019 10:21:31 GMT
If you look at the defensive record of Stoke as a PL club it's relatively stable. For instance we conceded 55 goals in season 8/9. 53 goals in season 11/12. 52 goals in season 13/14. 55 goals in season 15/16. 56 goals in season 16/17. In season 16/17 the heavy defeats were all against the top 6 teams. Also in that season 8 teams conceded more goals than Stoke,we finished 1 win off a 8th place finish and 1O points clear of relegation. It's fairly clear that a minor decline had started under Mark Hughes, but the stats show it wasn't a dramatic decline, for Coates to have sacked him at the end of 16/17 would have been wrong in my opinion. If we keep up our average for the first 6 games we’ll be conceding 115 this season 😂 Well 95 in a 38 game season, but yes that would be a dramatic decline in the club's fortunes and sort of puts things in perspective regarding Hughes.
Of course it's possible Nathan will sort things out and that won't happen.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2019 10:32:31 GMT
If we keep up our average for the first 6 games we’ll be conceding 115 this season 😂 Well 95 in a 38 game season, but yes that would be a dramatic decline in the club's fortunes and sort of puts things in perspective regarding Hughes.
Of course it's possible Nathan will sort things out and that won't happen.
I think it shows in trying to solve the problem we have just made things worse... our attack got us relegated in the end (we just couldn’t score for toffee) not our defence and now we can still neither attack nor defend. It’s quite baffling how they have managed to consistently make us worse. And people wonder why everyone is sick of it now.
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