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Post by FranktheRabbit on Sept 11, 2019 9:07:03 GMT
As fans are we being too lenient with them?
Let me say I am completely grateful for the past decade and being only 30 myself, it has allowed me to experience some of the better times of being a Stoke fan, however, the way they have handled these past few years has been completely appalling. So when is enough actually enough? When does the "Look what they have done for us" argument finally lose meaning?
I'm not saying lets start a "Coates Out" campaign but handing the reigns to Jon seems to of been a complete disaster and I think Peter is too old fashioned. If he took charge again, we would end up with another Pulis, we may become successful again and gain promotion....but how long before it rubs off and we wan't a change again? I don't think they know how to take us to that next level and you look at teams like Wolves and it kind of makes you lind of sick how far we have been left behind. I would personally like them to take a step back, (not sell the club), have a complete clear out and employ a group of people, from the top down, with a modern footballing mentality, who can change the complete structure of the club. This is what we all envisaged when they came out with their "promise" after relegation, so why hasn't anything changed? Chucking £50m at a manager isn't exactly learning from mistakes.
I just feel really angry with them at the moment, that they as a whole could allow this to happen. Everyting from the top to the bottom is a shit show, even down to the match day experience. We have only just had fucking card machines installed, not contactless....fucking card payments, and what man who made some of his fortune in catering allows the ground to serve food that isn't fit for a fucking dog to eat? We all sat with our heads in the clouds for 7-8 years, including them, and now we're back down to earth, the state the club is in is there for all to see.
They can't keep hiding behind managers...they need to step up and take responsibility and I don't mean some poxy statement promising things will change, because we all know now that we were all fed complete and utter bullshit!
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Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 11, 2019 9:09:08 GMT
Yes
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2019 9:18:59 GMT
Bolton, Bury, Portsmouth, Leeds all examples of why we should be sticking with the Coates family, IMHO.
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Post by christhepotter on Sept 11, 2019 9:21:20 GMT
Bolton, Bury, Portsmouth, Leeds all examples of why we should be sticking with the Coates family, IMHO. They’re made mistakes but who hasn’t , better the devil you know and I believe they have our best interests at heart
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Post by tony1234 on Sept 11, 2019 9:23:31 GMT
I just look at Stoke - in this way - as a business.
As an owner (and wider - a Board), you grow your business for the best part of 3-4 years. It flattens at a very good level for 2-3 years. And then it drops like a stone for 3-4 years.
Shareholders would definitely not tolerate the 3-4 years of fast, continuous decline - particularly when littered with awful decisions. Staff would leave or want to leave in droves. Suppliers and partners would be looking elsewhere and reducing reliance on you.
But as customers, am just not sure our grace isn't irrelevant.
To my mind, from the myriad of clues we've had, the best description of Stoke for me is a business that has not kept pace in a very fast moving industry. Business culture has changed - owners need to be prepared to bring in experts who know more than them and cede decision making authority, within a tight governance structure. There is little place for nepotism and cronyism. Your managerial staff and expertise have become more important than players. Data, evidence needs to usurp hunches. Fitness, performance levels, psychology and an organisational-culture of excellence et al are new the norm. When trading players, your outlook needs to be global and both short and long term. Jones talks about it like its new fangled wizadry, but people like Gil at Villa and the Norwich hierachy have been working in these environments for a decade.
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Post by sufolkstokie on Sept 11, 2019 9:30:23 GMT
Sure they have and seem to keep on making errors of judgement but without their money I dread to think where we would be
Doesn’t mean you sweep it under the carpet. Getting it wrong on the pitch is one thing but the off the pitch experience, they can have little excuse for
But I just don’t see who would buy them out. We weren’t that attractive when cemented in the Premier and our stock has fallen so much in 3 years. Plus the debt someone would have to find for the Coates business. Whilst they are here it is not an issue but pretty sure it would become one if they wanted to bail out
I just hope they see the light and change the structure and bring in fresh thinking behind the scenes
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Post by FranktheRabbit on Sept 11, 2019 9:32:41 GMT
Bolton, Bury, Portsmouth, Leeds all examples of why we should be sticking with the Coates family, IMHO. We can stick with them, I’m not saying I want them gone. I’m saying I think they should take a massive step back with how much involvement they have and actually employ people who know how to run a modern football club. We’re being massively left behind and with the money they have, it shouldn’t of been the case.
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Post by boscfc on Sept 11, 2019 9:47:44 GMT
I genuinely think “the family” are trying to do the right thing, but need a strong CEO to challenge them and the way things are currently being done.
Someone who has a personal (and measurable) responsibility and accountability to drive the club forward.
Someone who isn’t the simpering ineffective clown that is currently in post.
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Post by dreamtheater on Sept 11, 2019 9:55:51 GMT
They are not beyond criticsm -but to annoy / provoke them to the point of them giving up on Stoke City would be complete and utter madness.
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Post by FranktheRabbit on Sept 11, 2019 10:20:59 GMT
They are not beyond criticsm -but to annoy / provoke them to the point of them giving up on Stoke City would be complete and utter madness. We can criticise without provoking/angering them. If they can’t take criticism from the fans, the people who actually matter, then we should all give up.
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Post by dastokie on Sept 11, 2019 10:31:19 GMT
Happy with the ownership.
Just remember what we had before.
Just poor decisions in player choice from I believe it will change.
Whether with Jones or not.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2019 10:42:16 GMT
Bolton, Bury, Portsmouth, Leeds all examples of why we should be sticking with the Coates family, IMHO. We can stick with them, I’m not saying I want them gone. I’m saying I think they should take a massive step back with how much involvement they have and actually employ people who know how to run a modern football club. We’re being massively left behind and with the money they have, it shouldn’t of been the case. The money is irrelevant as its’s bet365’s and FFP means we are reliant on the football clubs income streams.
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Post by nott1 on Sept 11, 2019 10:44:48 GMT
We owe them everything and if they make mistakes they are the ones who suffer the most. Without their money we'd be in a sorry state, or out of business! If only they'd get rid of Jones we'd soon be on the road up though!
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Post by onefatcopper on Sept 11, 2019 10:50:44 GMT
Bolton, Bury, Portsmouth, Leeds all examples of why we should be sticking with the Coates family, IMHO. We can stick with them, I’m not saying I want them gone. I’m saying I think they should take a massive step back with how much involvement they have and actually employ people who know how to run a modern football club. We’re being massively left behind and with the money they have, it shouldn’t of been the case. Mmmm, I think we have traveled down this road before ? JEZ MOXEY !
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Post by FranktheRabbit on Sept 11, 2019 11:30:10 GMT
We owe them everything and if they make mistakes they are the ones who suffer the most. Without their money we'd be in a sorry state, or out of business! If only they'd get rid of Jones we'd soon be on the road up though! They aren't the ones who suffer the most, I can't agree with that. The fans suffer and the community in general suffers too! Getting rid of manager after manager until they "think" they have got it right is not the answer!
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Post by westgatelakes on Sept 11, 2019 11:31:01 GMT
They are not beyond criticsm -but to annoy / provoke them to the point of them giving up on Stoke City would be complete and utter madness. Hear hear !
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Post by questionable on Sept 11, 2019 11:33:04 GMT
Bolton, Bury, Portsmouth, Leeds all examples of why we should be sticking with the Coates family, IMHO. On the flip side you could look at Wolves/Leicester/Bournemouth. Face facts here the Coates family are rapidly dismantling what they’ve done with an alarming amount of stupidity but if you’re happy with this approach then so be it it’s your choice at the end of the day. Myself I’ll judge them on the present and not the past, it’s disgusting what they’re doing IMO
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Post by FranktheRabbit on Sept 11, 2019 11:34:46 GMT
We can stick with them, I’m not saying I want them gone. I’m saying I think they should take a massive step back with how much involvement they have and actually employ people who know how to run a modern football club. We’re being massively left behind and with the money they have, it shouldn’t of been the case. The money is irrelevant as its’s bet365’s and FFP means we are reliant on the football clubs income streams. I'm not that clued up on the FFP in all honesty...so I don't know how far it restricts the club in regards to stadium investment, employees (not players management etc.)?
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Post by dastokie on Sept 11, 2019 11:42:53 GMT
Bolton, Bury, Portsmouth, Leeds all examples of why we should be sticking with the Coates family, IMHO. On the flip side you could look at Wolves/Leicester/Bournemouth. Face facts here the Coates family are rapidly dismantling what they’ve done with an alarming amount of stupidity but if you’re happy with this approach then so be it it’s your choice at the end of the day. Myself I’ll judge them on the present and not the past, it’s disgusting what they’re doing IMO DOUGHNUT
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Sept 11, 2019 12:47:33 GMT
It's not for a lack of caring, or intent to fund the club because they've patently pumped millions into it even during this steep decline. What I think it stems back more to is outdated and complacent reliance in archaic methods of running the club by. The excess and unwarranted trust placed in key figures in the boardroom who aren't performing is stark.
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Post by FrankButcher on Sept 11, 2019 12:54:06 GMT
Bolton, Bury, Portsmouth, Leeds all examples of why we should be sticking with the Coates family, IMHO. The OP didn't say he wanted the Coates Family out and to sell up they were simply suggesting that they take a step back hire people to the run the club on their behalf which isn't unreasonable at all considering the mess we are in currently.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2019 12:56:48 GMT
You can't just keep pointing to the money they've spent to try and circumvent criticism though, however well intentioned it was.
The money has been spent badly by people and processes implemented by the owners or the people they've employed or continued to employ.
In this day and age, huge amounts of money spent badly is more damaging to football clubs than not having much at all, but spending that wisely.
For a simple one line comparison, compare Preston to Stoke. One is an expensively assembled mess and the other a finely tuned football club operating within it's means.
If we did drop this season, that 50M spent last season will kill us.
They deserve every ounce of criticism they get. Our business over the last few years has been at best lazy, at worst completely negligent.
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Sept 11, 2019 13:28:59 GMT
You can't just keep pointing to the money they've spent to try and circumvent criticism though, however well intentioned it was. The money has been spent badly by people and processes implemented by the owners or the people they've employed or continued to employ. In this day and age, huge amounts of money spent badly is more damaging to football clubs than not having much at all, but spending that wisely. For a simple one line comparison, compare Preston to Stoke. One is an expensively assembled mess and the other a finely tuned football club operating within it's means. If we did drop this season, that 50M spent last season will kill us. They deserve every ounce of criticism they get. Our business over the last few years has been at best lazy, at worst completely negligent. I agree, it's just I see a lot of comments on here and at the ground criticising them for not spending enough. When in reality, we've spent more than enough but haven't spent a penny on it modernising the club or how it is run. Rather than actually address what went wrong in 17/18 they threw 50 million at it and hoped that it stuck on a manager with a solid reputation and a "star studded" squad rather than taking a step back and thinking: "Our transfers are killing us, our contracts are killing us, let's have a look at how we can improve there". I'd rather spend 10 million on the squad and 40 million on developing a coherent and well run scouting network with a sporting director. The Coates have brought this on themselves, and whilst crisis clubs do put it into perspective that they are not "terrible" owners, like you say it's disingenuous to say that they can't be criticised just because they throw money around.
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Post by 19notbeaten72 on Sept 11, 2019 13:49:13 GMT
The Coates family have bought this on themselves by making one bad decision after another & i do not believe that they are beyond question. You cannot keep blaming people who work for them for making bad decisions as i would imagine everything goes through Peter Or Jon Coates before getting the nod. The buck stops right at the top & therefore they should be held to account for at least 3 years of mismanagement. They took the plaudits when things were good.
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Post by kustokie on Sept 11, 2019 13:55:12 GMT
They are not beyond criticsm -but to annoy / provoke them to the point of them giving up on Stoke City would be complete and utter madness. Rubbish. We’re the customers. We have a right to complain and keep up the pressure until they fix the problems or find someone who can. If that means selling up, so be it. The Kansas City baseball team has been in the doldrums for several seasons after winning the World Series, despite being locally owned. They were just bought by another local business man for $1 billion with a promise to rebuild the team and potentially building a new stadium. Sometimes drastic measures are what is needed, even though they come with some risk.
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Post by gingerninja on Sept 11, 2019 14:00:18 GMT
Just because they are pumping money in they are still accountable. After we were relegated they said they were going to do a full review and learn, clearly almost 2 years on nothing much has changed & people in the know intimate it goes deeper than the playing side..
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Post by FranktheRabbit on Sept 11, 2019 14:34:59 GMT
Just because they are pumping money in they are still accountable. After we were relegated they said they were going to do a full review and learn, clearly almost 2 years on nothing much has changed & people in the know intimate it goes deeper than the playing side.. The money means nothing unless it is spent correctly. I don't want to be emotionally blackmailed into not being able to criticise them because they have spent X amount of money....where has it got us? I would hope over these last two weeks, they have sat back and evaluated a little more? But then again, you hear fuck all from them. Hanging another manager out to dry again with no statement backing him....it's pathetic. They need to answer a hell of a lot of questions.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Sept 11, 2019 16:05:51 GMT
They are not beyond criticsm -but to annoy / provoke them to the point of them giving up on Stoke City would be complete and utter madness. I thought them and their complacency, lack of ambition and all round pissing our opportunity away was a major part of why you've turned your back on attending these days?
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Post by Olgrligm on Sept 11, 2019 20:47:17 GMT
I don't think that anybody would deny that the Coates family have made some mistakes in how they've been running things over the past few years. They've been too loyal to various members of staff, backed the wrong horse on occasion and perhaps been complacent.
However, what are you really going to do about it? To whom are they accountable. They own the club. They're paying every penny of Gianelli Imbula's wages. They've made real, brick and mortar investments in the stadium and training ground. There is no alternative. It's their way, or no way at all.
Not to despair, though. The good still outweighs the bad by a long, long, long, long way.
Before anybody suggests that the Coates could sell up and bring in an exciting foreign investor, assuming that anybody wants to buy us, I think that we can get complacent about the value of having local owners who actually care about the club. For every Man City, there's a Portsmouth, Swansea, Sunderland, Birmingham and Blackburn.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2019 20:50:41 GMT
I don't think that anybody would deny that the Coates family have made some mistakes in how they've been running things over the past few years. They've been too loyal to various members of staff, backed the wrong horse on occasion and perhaps been complacent. However, what are you really going to do about it? To whom are they accountable. They own the club. They're paying every penny of Gianelli Imbula's wages. They've made real, brick and mortar investments in the stadium and training ground. There is no alternative. It's their way, or no way at all. Not to despair, though. The good still outweighs the bad by a long, long, long, long way. Before anybody suggests that the Coates could sell up and bring in an exciting foreign investor, assuming that anybody wants to buy us, I think that we can get complacent about the value of having local owners who actually care about the club. For every Man City, there's a Portsmouth, Swansea, Sunderland, Birmingham and Blackburn. I don't want them to sell up but is it too much to ask that they just hire someone, anyone, just one person at the club who knows what the fuck they are doing. Surely this is not too much to ask.
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