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Post by berahinosgoals on Sept 10, 2019 7:32:10 GMT
Rowett wasn't abysmal, he arrested the slide, we were slowly but surely making progress. Afobe may have been the wrong signing but this guy is a championship manager not an elite level manager, he made a bad judgement as many managers do, even the elite ones. Best of it it this, your calling rowett's football abysmal but look who you are all voting for now in the polls, hardly managers that play fast attacking football like you were begging for during rowett's reign, is it? Hughton and his football is a coup! 🤭 No doubt if the next managerial dullard doesnt start winning games straight away his football will be abysmal and you 'just want to be entertained again', hey. Make your mind up. Rowettball was torpid shite and once he turned on the fans he was toast. The current incumbent has been given great support on and off the pitch but by his own admission his record is lamentable. There is no reason why we should put up with such chronic underperformance, yet you go one step further than put up with it and seemingly embrace it! Very strange. Unlike the baying mob I believe he is close to getting it right.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2019 7:36:27 GMT
Arrested the slide? Don’t you mean dismantled the pretty solid defence Lambert managed to make with the players he had? Then made us no better attacking wise having had the largest budget in the Championship. You just make shit up. Rowett was a complete and utter failure. He sorted nothing and made us worse. Stop rewriting history. One sentence I need to read " dismantle the solid defence that Lambert managed to make" Oh ffs, do you mean the same defence that got mullered for 2 whole seasons? That defence sacrificed everything else we had to offer. We offered nothing to win a game in a vein 'team attempt' to keep a clean sheet, awesome defence! We had no outlet upfront to do anything up front all we had was Shaq as Choupo and Jesé had gone awol. If they’d bothered to buy a striker in January it could have been a different story. We did have a solid defence under Lambert I don’t know how anyone can deny that. Then Rowett made us no better up front while the defence went to shit again having spent £50m. And you seem to think he deserves a medal or something.
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Post by tosh on Sept 10, 2019 7:39:26 GMT
Rowettball was torpid shite and once he turned on the fans he was toast. The current incumbent has been given great support on and off the pitch but by his own admission his record is lamentable. There is no reason why we should put up with such chronic underperformance, yet you go one step further than put up with it and seemingly embrace it! Very strange. Unlike the baying mob I believe he is close to getting it right. Says the man who fervently believed in and defended Berahino to the bitter end?
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Post by berahinosgoals on Sept 10, 2019 7:49:26 GMT
Unlike the baying mob I believe he is close to getting it right. Says the man who fervently believed in and defended Berahino to the bitter end? No one can deny he is an arse but there is a footballer in there and funnily enough guess who had him playing like one? The funny thing is when we originally signed the guy I wanted hughes to go for benteke instead who would have suited the role a lot better, loads wanted berahino and blamed his attitude on a certain mr pulis' man management and denying him his move.
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Post by mcw on Sept 10, 2019 10:44:34 GMT
Agree. I think some fans only followed stoke from the premiership onwards, to them championship football is a pointless exercise, its of no interest to them. It's exactly the case that these miserable sorts are draining the fun out of the season for everybody else because mark my words, they wont stop kicking and screaming until, if & when we're promoted. Hopefully though they will get bored and disappear soon. The rush to go back to the prem and get our arses served to us on a plate every week is what exactly? Yep, for me it is about enjoying the game, the atmosphere and the day. That has been in short supply recently, but for me I don't care about what division we are in but would at least like to see us being competitive and having some moments when you look left and right to your fellow supporters and can't believe you've just seen a goal like that, a move like that or a save like that.
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Post by stokesupporter on Sept 10, 2019 11:32:44 GMT
My original point was really that perhaps we should reset our attitude. Yes, we have played in the Prem but at this moment we are plying our trade at the bottom of championship. If we constantly moan about the lost glory we are going nowhere and any decent would managers steer well clear to stay away from the toxic atmosphere which we currently have.
We should be proud of our recent Prem successes but in this situation it's has also become a burden to us, like it often is for the recently relegated clubs. This slide has to stop now, but it doesn't help if are constantly pining for the past and compare our current lot to the one which finished 9th in the Premiership. It's also unfair for most of our new signings who are basicly more or less average Championship players.
Considering our current situation the mid table finish is the best we can realisticly hope this season. If NJ manages that we should probably keep him as he is a somewhat the victim of unrealistic expectations... if not, he should be going. I'm no suggesting we should give him the whole season by any means, one month is should be enough to see if he can turn us around or not. But even if we'd appoint a new manager soon he'd face the same challenges and problems than Lambert, Rowet and Jones did.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2019 11:37:12 GMT
My original point was really that perhaps we should reset our attitude. Yes, we have played in the Prem but at this moment we are plying our trade at the bottom of championship. If we constantly moan about the lost glory we are going nowhere and any decent would managers steer well clear to stay away from the toxic atmosphere which we currently have. We should be proud of our recent Prem successes but in this situation it's has also become a burden to us, like it often is for the recently relegated clubs. This slide has to stop now, but it doesn't help if are constantly pining for the past and compare our current lot to the one which finished 9th in the Premiership. It's also unfair for most of our new signings who are basicly more or less average Championship players. Considering our current situation the mid table finish is the best we can realisticly hope this season. If NJ manages that we should probably keep him as he is a somewhat the victim of unrealistic expectations... if not, he should be going. I'm no suggesting we should give him the whole season by any means, one month is should be enough to see if he can turn us around or not. But even if we'd appoint a new manager soon he'd face the same challenges and problems than Lambert, Rowet and Jones did. You've had four pages of people telling you it's not about Prem success it's the fact that we are awful, completely and utterly shambolic in fact yet you carry on missing the point completely. No-one in their right mind expected us to be promoted but no-one expected a manager to sign 11 players and make us worse and be sat at the bottom of the table with 1 point and some of the worst performances we've seen in a long time.
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Post by thevoid on Sept 10, 2019 11:45:53 GMT
I hope you're still happy clapping if (god forbid) we're in a relegation scrap come February. It'll keep your hands warm, at least. I'd had never of sacked rowett, if I stop following stoke through a relegation it wont be because of league position it will be because of the fans depressing me with constant whining Do you get depressed easily?
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Post by stokesupporter on Sept 10, 2019 11:47:01 GMT
My original point was really that perhaps we should reset our attitude. Yes, we have played in the Prem but at this moment we are plying our trade at the bottom of championship. If we constantly moan about the lost glory we are going nowhere and any decent would managers steer well clear to stay away from the toxic atmosphere which we currently have. We should be proud of our recent Prem successes but in this situation it's has also become a burden to us, like it often is for the recently relegated clubs. This slide has to stop now, but it doesn't help if are constantly pining for the past and compare our current lot to the one which finished 9th in the Premiership. It's also unfair for most of our new signings who are basicly more or less average Championship players. Considering our current situation the mid table finish is the best we can realisticly hope this season. If NJ manages that we should probably keep him as he is a somewhat the victim of unrealistic expectations... if not, he should be going. I'm no suggesting we should give him the whole season by any means, one month is should be enough to see if he can turn us around or not. But even if we'd appoint a new manager soon he'd face the same challenges and problems than Lambert, Rowet and Jones did. You've had four pages of people telling you it's not about Prem success it's the fact that we are awful, completely and utterly shambolic in fact yet you carry on missing the point completely. No-one in their right mind expected us to be promoted but no-one expected a manager to sign 11 players and make us worse and be sat at the bottom of the table with 1 point and some of the worst performances we've seen in a long time. I'd say that most of us expected promotion before this season started, so please don't try to re-write history. Even NJ himself stated that this season is all about winning the promotion (which was a mistake by his part IMO). These expectations also created a lot of unrealistic pressure for the team which is probably one of the main reason we're playing badly.
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Post by thevoid on Sept 10, 2019 11:48:26 GMT
What some people fail to grasp is we've gone from an established Premier League side to a team that looks like it's just gotten promoted above it's level to the Championship. All in three years. Yet apparently we're supposed to be happy about it... If you’re so unhappy why do you keep going on about greg wallace? Blocked you fella. Go and aim your pointless, banal nonsense at someone else.
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Post by crapslinger on Sept 10, 2019 11:52:43 GMT
My original point was really that perhaps we should reset our attitude. Yes, we have played in the Prem but at this moment we are plying our trade at the bottom of championship. If we constantly moan about the lost glory we are going nowhere and any decent would managers steer well clear to stay away from the toxic atmosphere which we currently have. We should be proud of our recent Prem successes but in this situation it's has also become a burden to us, like it often is for the recently relegated clubs. This slide has to stop now, but it doesn't help if are constantly pining for the past and compare our current lot to the one which finished 9th in the Premiership. It's also unfair for most of our new signings who are basicly more or less average Championship players. Considering our current situation the mid table finish is the best we can realisticly hope this season. If NJ manages that we should probably keep him as he is a somewhat the victim of unrealistic expectations... if not, he should be going. I'm no suggesting we should give him the whole season by any means, one month is should be enough to see if he can turn us around or not. But even if we'd appoint a new manager soon he'd face the same challenges and problems than Lambert, Rowet and Jones did. You've had four pages of people telling you it's not about Prem success it's the fact that we are awful, completely and utterly shambolic in fact yet you carry on missing the point completely. No-one in their right mind expected us to be promoted but no-one expected a manager to sign 11 players and make us worse and be sat at the bottom of the table with 1 point and some of the worst performances we've seen in a long time. Time to give up mate it's like trying to hammer aluminium nails in to a Staffordshire blue brick.
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Post by thevoid on Sept 10, 2019 11:54:16 GMT
No point knocking when no one's in mate As my grandmother used to say "You can't argue with stupid". Did she know zerps?
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Post by zerps on Sept 10, 2019 11:56:45 GMT
As my grandmother used to say "You can't argue with stupid". Did she know zerps? Failed at blocking me after 5 minutes 😆
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Post by citynickscfc on Sept 10, 2019 11:59:32 GMT
Rowettball was torpid shite and once he turned on the fans he was toast. The current incumbent has been given great support on and off the pitch but by his own admission his record is lamentable. There is no reason why we should put up with such chronic underperformance, yet you go one step further than put up with it and seemingly embrace it! Very strange. Unlike the baying mob I believe he is close to getting it right. Very close to getting it right would find us somewhere around the playoffs having played fantastically but not getting the rub of the green in a few games, we are about as far away from that as we could possibly be. How can anyone say they think NJ is even anywhere near getting anything right?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2019 12:36:50 GMT
You've had four pages of people telling you it's not about Prem success it's the fact that we are awful, completely and utterly shambolic in fact yet you carry on missing the point completely. No-one in their right mind expected us to be promoted but no-one expected a manager to sign 11 players and make us worse and be sat at the bottom of the table with 1 point and some of the worst performances we've seen in a long time. I'd say that most of us expected promotion before this season started, so please don't try to re-write history. Even NJ himself stated that this season is all about winning the promotion (which was a mistake by his part IMO). These expectations also created a lot of unrealistic pressure for the team which is probably one of the main reason we're playing badly. No-one accused of whinging on here, or the main culprits at least, thought we were getting promoted. Most people could see the signings made no sense and by the time he started harping on about promotion thought he’d completely lost his mind. So I completely disagree that it’s expectations. It’s 3 years of being awful. Entirely made by our own club. People are fed up with it because we’re dreadful not because we’re not getting promoted. The reason we are playing badly is because our manager can’t do anything other than a diamond that he doesn’t have the players for it because he didn’t buy the players for it. They are disorganised. And if anyone’s put pressure on him it’s the manager harping on about promotion. Not the fans.
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Post by stokesupporter on Sept 10, 2019 12:55:34 GMT
I'm not saying fans are the main culprit, it's the poor recruitmen policy which has let us down. Combined with a stubborn manager it has been a recipe for disaster. Thats why I very much doubt that NJ could somehow turn our fortunes unless he stumbles on some tactics that bring us at least some success. Hopefully the next manager isn't branded as a man who will bring us an immediate promotion though because he'll face the same problems than NJ. But at least the expectations should be lower than start of this season.
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Post by dreamtheater on Sept 10, 2019 12:56:26 GMT
There will be Stoke games to watch and things to speak in foreseeable future, regardless of what league are we playing in. There will be also some ups around the corner despite of the current downs. What I'm trying to say that we should not be too fixated to play in the Prem again because that'll only take enjoyment out of supporting Stoke now. We shouldn't be living in the past or in the future... we are now in the Championship and despite of playing pretty badly we will be certainly not without drama this season. And we do have also lot to play for so the excitement will be there. Perhaps accepting where we are now and what we are playing for would also take some pressure of the players and manager and therefore could create a better atmosphere in and around the club resulting eventually better performance on the pitch too. I do not accept nor ever will - the fall from grace from such a position of strength and resource as witnessed at Stoke City i.e. from 29th listed richest club in the world to absolute 'no marks' and a laughing stock in truth, in less than three years..A Club finally having risen to include world class players, giving top class entertainment to a worldwide audience with a worldwide branding, a 30k jam packed stadium able to host internationals and, able to compete with anybody To :- the absolutely humiliating half empty, not even bang average championship, totally classless, bloody shambles we witness right now. This is something never to be forgiven nor, forgotten until the position is resolved back to where it was an impossibly tall order now sadly.
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Post by GoBoks on Sept 10, 2019 14:08:15 GMT
I saw this on YouTube today: I cant believe - A) that was only 6 years ago B) thats actually us I think many people were intoxicated with our Stokealona flair and despite being 'true supporters' grieve for those days of attacking football and giant killing It's hard to accept we are shit on and off the pitch when you think how close we were to the big boys Accept it we must do and hope it doesn't take another 30+ years to do it again Excellent post. That was us. We experienced a purple patch (in Stoke Terms). Of course we all never wanted that to end and want that again, but history shows us that Stoke have had perhaps 4 or 5 such patches in 150+ years. Unless we get someone like Abramovich or Etihad where they come in with the objective of displacing the current top dog, it is cloud cuckoo land to expect us to suddenly be consistent performers at the top table. C’mon Stoke prove me wrong and get Project 107 back on track!
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Post by GoBoks on Sept 10, 2019 14:14:24 GMT
There will be Stoke games to watch and things to speak in foreseeable future, regardless of what league are we playing in. There will be also some ups around the corner despite of the current downs. What I'm trying to say that we should not be too fixated to play in the Prem again because that'll only take enjoyment out of supporting Stoke now. We shouldn't be living in the past or in the future... we are now in the Championship and despite of playing pretty badly we will be certainly not without drama this season. And we do have also lot to play for so the excitement will be there. Perhaps accepting where we are now and what we are playing for would also take some pressure of the players and manager and therefore could create a better atmosphere in and around the club resulting eventually better performance on the pitch too. We sat back in apathy as Hughes destroyed our club and our PL status, last season we watched us getting worse in a lower standard League, however never in real danger of relegation under Rowett, we bring in Jones who then wins 3 games in 4 months, 6 games in we are rooted to the bottom of the championship with a lunatic for a manager, there is very little enjoyment watching Stoke just now and hasn't been for three seasons. So you suggest we sit back watch the shit been served up happy clap us to another inevitable relegation to the third division, when do you suggest we stop been happy with our lot ? Actually, with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, if we’d continued to “sit back in apathy” instead of going ballistic, we would have probably survived under Hughes and had a more successful transition to a new better manager. Be careful what you wish for, you may get it!
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Post by kustokie on Sept 10, 2019 14:21:55 GMT
My original point was really that perhaps we should reset our attitude. Yes, we have played in the Prem but at this moment we are plying our trade at the bottom of championship. If we constantly moan about the lost glory we are going nowhere and any decent would managers steer well clear to stay away from the toxic atmosphere which we currently have. We should be proud of our recent Prem successes but in this situation it's has also become a burden to us, like it often is for the recently relegated clubs. This slide has to stop now, but it doesn't help if are constantly pining for the past and compare our current lot to the one which finished 9th in the Premiership. It's also unfair for most of our new signings who are basicly more or less average Championship players. Considering our current situation the mid table finish is the best we can realisticly hope this season. If NJ manages that we should probably keep him as he is a somewhat the victim of unrealistic expectations... if not, he should be going. I'm no suggesting we should give him the whole season by any means, one month is should be enough to see if he can turn us around or not. But even if we'd appoint a new manager soon he'd face the same challenges and problems than Lambert, Rowet and Jones did. You've had four pages of people telling you it's not about Prem success it's the fact that we are awful, completely and utterly shambolic in fact yet you carry on missing the point completely. No-one in their right mind expected us to be promoted but no-one expected a manager to sign 11 players and make us worse and be sat at the bottom of the table with 1 point and some of the worst performances we've seen in a long time. I must have lost my mind then, because I honestly thought we had a good chance of getting promoted. Now I am just hoping we get out the shit-pot we have fallen into.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2019 14:25:12 GMT
You've had four pages of people telling you it's not about Prem success it's the fact that we are awful, completely and utterly shambolic in fact yet you carry on missing the point completely. No-one in their right mind expected us to be promoted but no-one expected a manager to sign 11 players and make us worse and be sat at the bottom of the table with 1 point and some of the worst performances we've seen in a long time. I must have lost my mind then, because I honestly thought we had a good chance of getting promoted. Now I am just hoping we get out the shit-pot we have fallen into. You really should have known better when we signed a load of players that don't fit the system he wanted to play and we still had huge notable gaps
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Post by FranktheRabbit on Sept 10, 2019 14:25:43 GMT
There will be Stoke games to watch and things to speak in foreseeable future, regardless of what league are we playing in. There will be also some ups around the corner despite of the current downs. What I'm trying to say that we should not be too fixated to play in the Prem again because that'll only take enjoyment out of supporting Stoke now. We shouldn't be living in the past or in the future... we are now in the Championship and despite of playing pretty badly we will be certainly not without drama this season. And we do have also lot to play for so the excitement will be there. Perhaps accepting where we are now and what we are playing for would also take some pressure of the players and manager and therefore could create a better atmosphere in and around the club resulting eventually better performance on the pitch too. I do not accept nor ever will - the fall from grace from such a position of strength and resource as witnessed at Stoke City i.e. from 29th listed richest club in the world to absolute 'no marks' and a laughing stock in truth, in less than three years..A Club finally having risen to include world class players, giving top class entertainment to a worldwide audience with a worldwide branding, a 30k jam packed stadium able to host internationals and, able to compete with anybody To :- the absolutely humiliating half empty, not even bang average championship, totally classless, bloody shambles we witness right now. This is something never to be forgiven nor, forgotten until the position is resolved back to where it was an impossibly tall order now sadly. Couldn't of put it better. Worst of it is....it was preventable, yet we (The Board) were too arrogant to see what was happening. What an absolute shit show.
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Post by Goonie on Sept 10, 2019 14:51:46 GMT
I must have lost my mind then, because I honestly thought we had a good chance of getting promoted. Now I am just hoping we get out the shit-pot we have fallen into. You really should have known better when we signed a load of players that don't fit the system he wanted to play and we still had huge notable gaps I was delusional enough to think he had realised the diamond was not for us Yet off jones went and bought a 'keeper we didn't need, failed to get a LWB and a decent DM He promised pace and delivered sloth He promised passion and delivered apathy He promised fight and delivered surrender and resignation Hoping for a swift turnaround but failing that a swift sacking and replacement
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Post by crapslinger on Sept 10, 2019 15:12:46 GMT
We sat back in apathy as Hughes destroyed our club and our PL status, last season we watched us getting worse in a lower standard League, however never in real danger of relegation under Rowett, we bring in Jones who then wins 3 games in 4 months, 6 games in we are rooted to the bottom of the championship with a lunatic for a manager, there is very little enjoyment watching Stoke just now and hasn't been for three seasons. So you suggest we sit back watch the shit been served up happy clap us to another inevitable relegation to the third division, when do you suggest we stop been happy with our lot ? Actually, with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, if we’d continued to “sit back in apathy” instead of going ballistic, we would have probably survived under Hughes and had a more successful transition to a new better manager. Be careful what you wish for, you may get it! Hughes was taking us on a downward trajectory for two seasons I have no reason to believe we would have survived relegation under Hughes, the problem lay with the piss poor appointment of Lambert by our board, however he did steady the ship slightly the last two managers have failed abysmally Jones especially yet some are wiling to give him more time including our failed board of Directors.
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Post by crapslinger on Sept 10, 2019 15:18:25 GMT
You've had four pages of people telling you it's not about Prem success it's the fact that we are awful, completely and utterly shambolic in fact yet you carry on missing the point completely. No-one in their right mind expected us to be promoted but no-one expected a manager to sign 11 players and make us worse and be sat at the bottom of the table with 1 point and some of the worst performances we've seen in a long time. I must have lost my mind then, because I honestly thought we had a good chance of getting promoted. Now I am just hoping we get out the shit-pot we have fallen into. Another Nathan promise then he proceeded to sign piss poor players that don't fit his preferred system and didn't sign players for the most important positions to make his system work ! hence we have Cousins as DM and McClean as a LWB unsurprisingly he has had to drop his preferred system and now has no fucking idea what to do next hence the constant throwing shit at the wall hoping some will stick.
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Post by crapslinger on Sept 10, 2019 15:24:20 GMT
I'm not saying fans are the main culprit, it's the poor recruitmen policy which has let us down. Combined with a stubborn manager it has been a recipe for disaster. Thats why I very much doubt that NJ could somehow turn our fortunes unless he stumbles on some tactics that bring us at least some success. Hopefully the next manager isn't branded as a man who will bring us an immediate promotion though because he'll face the same problems than NJ. But at least the expectations should be lower than start of this season. Hopefully the next manager will not be blabbing his mouth off about ridiculous promises that he has no chance of delivering.
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Post by GoBoks on Sept 10, 2019 16:44:14 GMT
Actually, with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, if we’d continued to “sit back in apathy” instead of going ballistic, we would have probably survived under Hughes and had a more successful transition to a new better manager. Be careful what you wish for, you may get it! Hughes was taking us on a downward trajectory for two seasons I have no reason to believe we would have survived relegation under Hughes, the problem lay with the piss poor appointment of Lambert by our board, however he did steady the ship slightly the last two managers have failed abysmally Jones especially yet some are wiling to give him more time including our failed board of Directors. Then we beg to differ. To me, there is no doubt whatsoever that Hughes would have kept us up. Do not mistake for a moment that I am saying we should have kept him, but the Board acted at the worst possible time, in part, I believe due to the mounting pressure from the fans. We are in a very similar situation now. After 6 games, do we sack NJ, scrap the team he is building and get someone new in (assuming anyone will come now), which will cost another fortune and is not guaranteed to bring success.
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Post by fulagoals on Sept 10, 2019 17:31:36 GMT
There will be Stoke games to watch and things to speak in foreseeable future, regardless of what league are we playing in. There will be also some ups around the corner despite of the current downs. What I'm trying to say that we should not be too fixated to play in the Prem again because that'll only take enjoyment out of supporting Stoke now. We shouldn't be living in the past or in the future... we are now in the Championship and despite of playing pretty badly we will be certainly not without drama this season. And we do have also lot to play for so the excitement will be there. Perhaps accepting where we are now and what we are playing for would also take some pressure of the players and manager and therefore could create a better atmosphere in and around the club resulting eventually better performance on the pitch too. Can I just ask you stokesupporter,are you from outside the uk?
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Post by kustokie on Sept 10, 2019 18:51:14 GMT
I must have lost my mind then, because I honestly thought we had a good chance of getting promoted. Now I am just hoping we get out the shit-pot we have fallen into. Another Nathan promise then he proceeded to sign piss poor players that don't fit his preferred system and didn't sign players for the most important positions to make his system work ! hence we have Cousins as DM and McClean as a LWB unsurprisingly he has had to drop his preferred system and now has no fucking idea what to do next hence the constant throwing shit at the wall hoping some will stick. Triumph of hope over experience as usual
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Post by blackpoolred on Sept 10, 2019 19:03:05 GMT
We are shite there is no future other than a shite one, we are not going to win a game this season with the shite we have in charge, Football in the championship is shite, but not as shite as the shite football we will be watching next year when we are playing tier 3 shite. The board should have changed there manager pre-season because of his utterly shite performances last year, but they did not because they are shite. I want a City with a great football team and one that wins trophies, not happy clapping in tier 3, with supporters delighted because they are a big fish in a small pond. I want ambition and a vision, not a board, club and supporters that think we should stay with a manager just because he is enthusiastic and because we can't do any better than just giving any old mediocre Sod ago because we are fed up of changing managers. This attitude sums the shite lackluster unambitious City of Stoke up and the inertia the board, fans, and club are suffering from and have been since our inception - we were one of the pioneers of the game and should be a permanent fixture in the top flight - anything else is shite. So does every other clubs supporters, unfortunatly there are only 2 cups available per year. There are 20 places in the top division with 90+ clubs wanting to be in it. Man city are closer to Blackpool than stoke if Blackpool can't cut the mustard either And Stoke as a City is in the top 20 in terms of its size and population and in the top 20 in terms of attendances. So we should not be aiming for 45th and below(tier 3)
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