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Post by riverman on Jan 29, 2020 8:34:18 GMT
Apparently the minister who approved the smart motorways claims he was misled about the risks on taking away the hard shoulder. Misled?! His first words should have been no,think again! who was the minister at the time. Mike Penning
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Post by desman2 on Jan 29, 2020 9:11:30 GMT
A rather harrowing video
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Post by chuffedstokie on Jan 29, 2020 9:23:44 GMT
@lawrieleslie The speed camera boxes mounted on the overhead gantries are mostly long gone, even though the markings have still been left on the motorway. There are possibly still some on the M25 but they've gone from everywhere else. The fixed cameras on the motorway now are nearly all the yellow boxes which are mounted onto the down leg of the gantry poles next to the hard shoulder/lane 1 depending how "smart" your motorway of choice is. It is still Russian roulette as to which one of the installations actually has a camera in it though, from my experience driving over 50K+ miles a year there are still very few cameras. You can also still drive past a live yellow camera at 80mph during normal 70mph limits and you won't set it off, anything much over 80 and you are risking it. They do adjust to the variable limits so you do have to be careful when the limits are down to 40/50/60 not to exceed the limit by very much. On another topic does anybody know anybody who has ever been done by an average speed camera in a roadworks section? I certainly don't. Lorries are a bloody nightmare as they will still do their maximum 56 mph in every stretch of 50 mph so if you go 50 in the inside or middle lanes you end up with a lorry up your arse so I generally try and stick to the outside lane and go at least 56 mph to get a bit of room.The sooner they do something out to make all the "smart" motorways follow the same rules the better, some have part-time use of the hard shoulder (e.g. M42) while others have no hard shoulder at all it just confuses drivers, especially occasional motorway users. Only this morning a lorry was driving down the hard shoulder on the M42 near the M6 junction when it wasn't a live lane. They should at least have the overhead gantry signs on permanently so there is always a red cross over the hard shoulder when its not a live lane. I spend far too much time on motorways............. I got done for doing 56 between J19 and J18 on the M6 in the roadworks pre the opening of the "smart" motorway. Coming back from a gig in Manchester got on at Knutsford in two solid lanes of artics. Doing 50 they were either up my backside or overtaking pitch back, shit weather and after feeling uncomfortable for a few mile I got out to the outside lane. What I'd like to know is how they stay on the road if they're constantly doing over 50? What I discovered some time ago was that all commercial/tacho vehicles have their road speeds calibrated more accurately than others. On average we're all travelling 3mph slower than the speedometer is telling us. So the artic IS doing 50 and we're all going at 46-47 mph. I double checked this with the sat nav and it's more accurate than the car.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jan 30, 2020 20:14:24 GMT
This does seem a rare occasion when the " authorities " should hold their hands up and say that they got it wrong....and take relatively quick action to put it right.
In terms of congestion and traffic flow I find that it has been better in 4 lane motorways..when everything is going to plan/ no incidents. But that isnt really the point. It seems to me that it is only a matter of time before there is one or a series of multi vehicle pile ups and deaths.
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Post by bathstoke on Jan 30, 2020 20:46:03 GMT
I got done for doing 56 between J19 and J18 on the M6 in the roadworks pre the opening of the "smart" motorway. Coming back from a gig in Manchester got on at Knutsford in two solid lanes of artics. Doing 50 they were either up my backside or overtaking pitch back, shit weather and after feeling uncomfortable for a few mile I got out to the outside lane. What I'd like to know is how they stay on the road if they're constantly doing over 50? What I discovered some time ago was that all commercial/tacho vehicles have their road speeds calibrated more accurately than others. On average we're all travelling 3mph slower than the speedometer is telling us. So the artic IS doing 50 and we're all going at 46-47 mph. I double checked this with the sat nav and it's more accurate than the car. I was going into that there London on the M25/M11& the two or three inside lanes where empty for great distances, cause no one will get out of the overtaking lanes. I just swoop past on the hard shoulder. £@#&’em. Manc to Brum can be as bad...
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Post by maninasuitcase on Jan 30, 2020 21:56:13 GMT
Guy broke down on M6 south bound today near sandbach. Nothing on the gantrys to warn folk, as he was waving furiously from behind the safety barrier at cars to slow down to avoid hitting his stranded car. Its a scandalous decision to loose the hard shoulder. It should be a part time measure only like the M42 not a permanently active lane.
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Post by Northy on Nov 19, 2020 12:01:28 GMT
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Post by somersetstokie on Nov 19, 2020 12:39:34 GMT
Sections of the M5 near Bristol are now a smart motorway, and there are a number of major interchanges around Almondsbury. The associated proliferation of signage is both confusing and intimidating, with messages such as "Congestion. Use Hard Shoulder" and "Variable Speed Limit" shown on overhead gantries. It's a motorists nightmare.
I know the threat to even sensible motorists from recent experience. I was on the M5 late at night and had actually slowed down to ensure I didn't miss my lane indication and end up on the wrong motorway! It was a clear night, with no weather issues or local roadworks and there were only a handful of vehicles in transit. For whatever reason the Variable Speed Limit control was active and I was clocked as doing 54mph in a 40 limit zone, regardless of the fact that the National Speed limit on a Motorway would otherwise be 70mph.
I researched this issue and found that the Camera at that point was amongst the top 5 most active cameras in the UK, having caught a total of 38,726 road users over a three year period. Another Camera nearby on the M4, also amongst that top 5, recorded 34,507 "offences" during the same review period. I am sure that the majority of motorists driving sensibly in these areas would have avoided offending if they were aware of the camera's presence and status. The fact that so many were caught raises legitimate concerns about the Camera's profile and positioning and the local operating perameters. It is clearly not being used as a visible deterrent for reasons of road safety, and is merely operating as a Revenue raising tool.
But Hey! We should be proud of our new smart controlled motorways and embrace them as part of a bold safer future.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Nov 19, 2020 13:06:20 GMT
It's very easy to knock "Smart" Motorways and I've not seen a comparison of the accident stats on each type so I'll reserve judgement, but it seems like there's a fairly obvious choice going on..
- pay the cost of additional land-take to provide four lane motorways with a hard shoulder (exorbitant)
- use the hard shoulder as a fourth running lane and provide refuges every mile (less overall land take = cheaper overall)
- persuade people to drive less and move freight around less by truck (unpopular, unlikely to happen)
You can see why Smart Motorways were chosen as the way forward...
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Post by yeokel on Nov 19, 2020 14:29:23 GMT
Sections of the M5 near Bristol are now a smart motorway, and there are a number of major interchanges around Almondsbury. The associated proliferation of signage is both confusing and intimidating, with messages such as "Congestion. Use Hard Shoulder" and "Variable Speed Limit" shown on overhead gantries. It's a motorists nightmare. I know the threat to even sensible motorists from recent experience. I was on the M5 late at night and had actually slowed down to ensure I didn't miss my lane indication and end up on the wrong motorway! It was a clear night, with no weather issues or local roadworks and there were only a handful of vehicles in transit. For whatever reason the Variable Speed Limit control was active and I was clocked as doing 54mph in a 40 limit zone, regardless of the fact that the National Speed limit on a Motorway would otherwise be 70mph. I researched this issue and found that the Camera at that point was amongst the top 5 most active cameras in the UK, having caught a total of 38,726 road users over a three year period. Another Camera nearby on the M4, also amongst that top 5, recorded 34,507 "offences" during the same review period. I am sure that the majority of motorists driving sensibly in these areas would have avoided offending if they were aware of the camera's presence and status. The fact that so many were caught raises legitimate concerns about the Camera's profile and positioning and the local operating perameters. It is clearly not being used as a visible deterrent for reasons of road safety, and is merely operating as a Revenue raising tool. But Hey! We should be proud of our new smart controlled motorways and embrace them as part of a bold safer future. I’ve found the best way to deal with these smart motorways with their variable speed limits is to simply set the cruise control at whatever the speed limit is (perhaps a couple of mph over) and stick to it, regardless of how many people pass me or how stupid the speed limit seems to me.
And, as I’m sure you know, that stretch around Almondsbury is notorious for the numbers it catches (as you’ve experienced).
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Post by franklin on Nov 19, 2020 15:15:34 GMT
I'm not sure no "safe" area to pull over is the way to go if im honest. There are already many documented hard shoulder deaths too many and I cant see how doing away with them will reduce the numbers. Yes it will reduce travel time, save money etc but deaths nah.
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Post by maninasuitcase on Nov 19, 2020 17:19:44 GMT
Bloody glad ive swapped my areas at work now to the Midlands and Lincolnshire, cos that will be hellish when it starts.
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Post by Northy on Nov 20, 2020 9:21:00 GMT
Bloody glad ive swapped my areas at work now to the Midlands and Lincolnshire, cos that will be hellish when it starts. Ive been travelling to the south east for 6 or 7 years now, the M6 and M1 have never been free of roadworks. They are all due to complete in March 2022, what's the bet they change my patch again in February 2022 !
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Post by maninasuitcase on Nov 20, 2020 9:27:24 GMT
Bloody glad ive swapped my areas at work now to the Midlands and Lincolnshire, cos that will be hellish when it starts. Ive been travelling to the south east for 6 or 7 years now, the M6 and M1 have never been free of roadworks. They are all due to complete in March 2022, what's the bet they change my patch again in February 2022 ! We will never be free of roadworks. The road network wears out faster than they can repair it. If we had an affordable public transport network fit for purpose it would alleviate a lot of these issues. Dr Beeching has a lot to answer for in modern Britain. What we would give for all those little branch lines now.
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Post by heworksardtho on Nov 20, 2020 10:53:14 GMT
Drive on them everyday all over the U.K. , safest roads in the country , it’s the ppl who drive on them once or twice a year that are causing the accidents
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Post by somersetstokie on Nov 20, 2020 13:44:26 GMT
Drive on them everyday all over the U.K. , safest roads in the country , it’s the ppl who drive on them once or twice a year that are causing the accidents , There's a load of idiots out there though. The ones that frustrate me are those that join the motorway from the left at a slip road, and within a few seconds they have crossed right through to the outside lane, with no thought of assessing or adjusting to the speed of the traffic or the driving conditions. These are usually the same people that half a mile further on are going back to the inside lanes and undertaking or cutting up other motorists who they believe are holding them up, as if this manouvre will give them an advantage in congested traffic.
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Post by Northy on Nov 20, 2020 14:31:53 GMT
Ive been travelling to the south east for 6 or 7 years now, the M6 and M1 have never been free of roadworks. They are all due to complete in March 2022, what's the bet they change my patch again in February 2022 ! We will never be free of roadworks. The road network wears out faster than they can repair it. If we had an affordable public transport network fit for purpose it would alleviate a lot of these issues. Dr Beeching has a lot to answer for in modern Britain. What we would give for all those little branch lines now. They've all been widening for smart motorways, I'd love just 1 journey without them
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Post by heworksardtho on Nov 20, 2020 17:51:34 GMT
Drive on them everyday all over the U.K. , safest roads in the country , it’s the ppl who drive on them once or twice a year that are causing the accidents , There's a load of idiots out there though. The ones that frustrate me are those that join the motorway from the left at a slip road, and within a few seconds they have crossed right through to the outside lane, with no thought of assessing or adjusting to the speed of the traffic or the driving conditions. These are usually the same people that half a mile further on are going back to the inside lanes and undertaking or cutting up other motorists who they believe are holding them up, as if this manouvre will give them an advantage in congested traffic. The foreign lorry drivers and also foreign car drivers are awful , take no notice of speed restrictions, no consideration for other drivers , when you look at traffic volume on motorways to normal roads , more deaths and accidents occur on normal roads , at least on motorways all the traffic going in the same direction , with no side roads , roundabouts etc
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