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Post by harryburrows on Sept 2, 2019 5:06:04 GMT
4 people killed this year on a 16 mile stretch of the M1 because they couldn't get to the refuge area, police hate it because it's almost impossible to pull over dangerous drivers . I've always had my doubts about these .smart technology dumb idea
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Post by supersimonstainrod on Sept 2, 2019 5:28:06 GMT
4 people killed this year on a 16 mile stretch of the M1 because they couldn't get to the refuge area, police hate it because it's almost impossible to pull over dangerous drivers . I've always had my doubts about these .smart technology dumb idea Always been my concern with them too,the problems are particularly compounded whilst the work is being carried out to upgrade them.On a trip to Manchester recently some poor sod had broken down in the overtaking lane of the M6. An AA patrolman once told me they'd calculated that on average you could be on the conventional hard shoulder for 27 minutes before you were likely to be clipped by a HGV etc.God knows how long you'll last if you break down on the carriageway itself between the refuge areas,(legally they have to be every mile.) From what i've seen,few people take any notice of the variable speed limits and instructions given by the new signage anyway: Smart motorways, not so smart road users.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2019 5:33:01 GMT
Good money maker I'll bet tho.. how many have had to pay out for doing over 70 since?
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Post by felonious on Sept 2, 2019 5:58:35 GMT
Good money maker I'll bet tho.. how many have had to pay out for doing over 70 since? So this is why you're not watching Stoke anymore?
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Post by Northy on Sept 2, 2019 6:20:58 GMT
Good money maker I'll bet tho.. how many have had to pay out for doing over 70 since? Not me so far, I can remember where the cameras are. Part of the stretch of roadworks past Milton Keynes on the M1 is now 60mph
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Post by Timmypotter on Sept 2, 2019 6:59:02 GMT
I take the Holmes Chapel to Knutsford stretch most days. On two occasions I've seen a car that hasn't made it to the refuge area and the signage hasn't warned those approaching that there's a stopped car in their way. It's improved my commute time undoubtedly but the two times that has happened were terrifying as HGVs were suddenly having to swing into the next lane. As long as the technology works properly they're fine. When it doesn't they're death traps.
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Post by Bojan Mackey on Sept 2, 2019 12:08:31 GMT
What’s also hilarious is the M6 sliproad now floods as soon as it rains, it didn’t before.
Smart motorways, built by absolute retards as it turns out.
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Post by metalhead on Sept 2, 2019 17:03:21 GMT
I take the Holmes Chapel to Knutsford stretch most days. On two occasions I've seen a car that hasn't made it to the refuge area and the signage hasn't warned those approaching that there's a stopped car in their way. It's improved my commute time undoubtedly but the two times that has happened were terrifying as HGVs were suddenly having to swing into the next lane. As long as the technology works properly they're fine. When it doesn't they're death traps. I do the stretch just before that, Crewe to Sandbach and for sure, it's not only reduced the commute times to work (not just the motorway itself but the surrounding areas) but I feel it's generally improved the efficiency of the motorway. It's less problematic for sure. However, at what cost eh? The potential human cost is unknown yet. They're banking on the fact cars are way more reliable than they used to be, and technology can perhaps mitigate when they have the occasional breakdown. The problem is.... when it goes wrong.
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Post by heworksardtho on Sept 2, 2019 17:56:41 GMT
When you see the Red X flashing on the motorway and you choose to ignore and stay in the lane you will have a letter thru asking you why , it will also say it’s a offence and £100 fine and 3 points , but this time they wont do you and you just fill in the questionaire on Smart Motorways
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2019 19:17:06 GMT
The area after the M6 Toll to the M40 London has cameras, not once have i seen them go off & i've put my foot down a few times
Same with the M4 Slough to Reading, 50 MPH for ages, people just speed on through willy nilly.
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Post by Timmypotter on Jan 26, 2020 19:55:18 GMT
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51236375This won't come as a surprise to anyone who regularly uses the 'smart' motorway. I've seen two scary incidents between Holmes Chapel and Knutsford since it was introduced there, as HGVs have had to swerve into the middle lane to avoid a stationary vehicle in the inside lane. If the technology isn't up to the job it needs to be abandoned.
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Post by Northy on Jan 26, 2020 20:06:27 GMT
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51236375This won't come as a surprise to anyone who regularly uses the 'smart' motorway. I've seen two scary incidents between Holmes Chapel and Knutsford since it was introduced there, as HGVs have had to swerve into the middle lane to avoid a stationary vehicle in the inside lane. If the technology isn't up to the job it needs to be abandoned. The technology is there, but has hardly been deployed apart from a small stretch.
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Post by lawrieleslie on Jan 26, 2020 20:40:46 GMT
4 people killed this year on a 16 mile stretch of the M1 because they couldn't get to the refuge area, police hate it because it's almost impossible to pull over dangerous drivers . I've always had my doubts about these .smart technology dumb idea Always been my concern with them too,the problems are particularly compounded whilst the work is being carried out to upgrade them.On a trip to Manchester recently some poor sod had broken down in the overtaking lane of the M6. An AA patrolman once told me they'd calculated that on average you could be on the conventional hard shoulder for 27 minutes before you were likely to be clipped by a HGV etc.God knows how long you'll last if you break down on the carriageway itself between the refuge areas,(legally they have to be every mile.) From what i've seen,few people take any notice of the variable speed limits and instructions given by the new signage anyway: Smart motorways, not so smart road users. But the variable speed limits are not advisory but mandatory. A speed camera exists by every gantry so if you choose to ignore the speed limit you will be nabbed and incur speeding penalty. Apart from the obvious dangers already mentioned that must be urgently addressed, variable speed limits do work to ease congestion imo. I drive to Bristol regularly from Devon using M5/M4/M32 and the "smart" section on M5 and M4 seems to work. I always use my cars speed limiter to ensure compliance to variable speed limits. It won’t be long before this is automated to enforce cars to adhere to the variable limits.
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Post by AlliG on Jan 26, 2020 20:53:36 GMT
Always been my concern with them too,the problems are particularly compounded whilst the work is being carried out to upgrade them.On a trip to Manchester recently some poor sod had broken down in the overtaking lane of the M6. An AA patrolman once told me they'd calculated that on average you could be on the conventional hard shoulder for 27 minutes before you were likely to be clipped by a HGV etc.God knows how long you'll last if you break down on the carriageway itself between the refuge areas,(legally they have to be every mile.) From what i've seen,few people take any notice of the variable speed limits and instructions given by the new signage anyway: Smart motorways, not so smart road users. But the variable speed limits are not advisory but mandatory. A speed camera exists by every gantry so if you choose to ignore the speed limit you will be nabbed and incur speeding penalty. Apart from the obvious dangers already mentioned that must be urgently addressed, variable speed limits do work to ease congestion imo. I drive to Bristol regularly from Devon using M5/M4/M32 and the "smart" section on M5 and M4 seems to work. I always use my cars speed limiter to ensure compliance to variable speed limits. It won’t be long before this is automated to enforce cars to adhere to the variable limits. I agree. The variable speed limits are a good idea. The science is sound and they do improve the traffic flow. The problem is with the lack of a hard shoulder or enough "safe areas". The current safety guidance on Motorways with hard shoulders is for the occupants to get out of the car as quickly as possible and to take refuge behind the side barriers / fence wherever possible. If it is now considered too dangerous for people to be sitting in a stationary vehicle on the hard shoulder then why is it considered safe for people to sit in a stationary vehicle in a "live" lane because on a "smart" Motorway without a hard shoulder I don't even see how it is possible to get out of the car to a safe place.
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Post by lawrieleslie on Jan 26, 2020 21:05:55 GMT
But the variable speed limits are not advisory but mandatory. A speed camera exists by every gantry so if you choose to ignore the speed limit you will be nabbed and incur speeding penalty. Apart from the obvious dangers already mentioned that must be urgently addressed, variable speed limits do work to ease congestion imo. I drive to Bristol regularly from Devon using M5/M4/M32 and the "smart" section on M5 and M4 seems to work. I always use my cars speed limiter to ensure compliance to variable speed limits. It won’t be long before this is automated to enforce cars to adhere to the variable limits. I agree. The variable speed limits are a good idea. The science is sound and they do improve the traffic flow. The problem is with the lack of a hard shoulder or enough "safe areas". The current safety guidance on Motorways with hard shoulders is for the occupants to get out of the car as quickly as possible and to take refuge behind the side barriers / fence wherever possible. If it is now considered too dangerous for people to be sitting in a stationary vehicle on the hard shoulder then why is it considered safe for people to sit in a stationary vehicle in a "live" lane because on a "smart" Motorway without a hard shoulder I don't even see how it is possible to get out of the car to a safe place. Agree completely Alli. Of course the problem is that smart motorways are an after-thought in traffic management and, until extra lanes are built as they are doing on M3 I believe, the dangers you describe will continue.
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Post by theoptimist on Jan 26, 2020 22:36:14 GMT
Had a near miss on Saturday on the M6 while on my way to the game. Some numbnuts pulled straight out of a refuge just as I was approaching! Didn't look - just pulled out. Lucky there was no-one next to me in lane 2, so I could swerve to avoid .
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jan 27, 2020 8:11:14 GMT
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Post by thepremierbanksy on Jan 27, 2020 9:55:11 GMT
Always been my concern with them too,the problems are particularly compounded whilst the work is being carried out to upgrade them.On a trip to Manchester recently some poor sod had broken down in the overtaking lane of the M6. An AA patrolman once told me they'd calculated that on average you could be on the conventional hard shoulder for 27 minutes before you were likely to be clipped by a HGV etc.God knows how long you'll last if you break down on the carriageway itself between the refuge areas,(legally they have to be every mile.) From what i've seen,few people take any notice of the variable speed limits and instructions given by the new signage anyway: Smart motorways, not so smart road users. But the variable speed limits are not advisory but mandatory. A speed camera exists by every gantry so if you choose to ignore the speed limit you will be nabbed and incur speeding penalty. Apart from the obvious dangers already mentioned that must be urgently addressed, variable speed limits do work to ease congestion imo. I drive to Bristol regularly from Devon using M5/M4/M32 and the "smart" section on M5 and M4 seems to work. I always use my cars speed limiter to ensure compliance to variable speed limits. It won’t be long before this is automated to enforce cars to adhere to the variable limits. Unless memory is failing me, the smart motorways I have used always have the variable speed limits in a red circle, which means they are mandatory.
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Post by supersimonstainrod on Jan 27, 2020 10:26:22 GMT
Haven't the Highways Agency announced that they are not going to upgrade any further motorways to 'smart' roads. Seems like a case of closing the stable door.... I've always felt there should be a separate driving test for motorway driving,the need seems even more compelling now. The other evening I was stuck in traffic on the M6 and a motorist became so incensed at drivers trying to gain advantage in the tailback by willfully ignoring overhead signs instructing vehicles to merge lanes that she decided to position her car straddling both lanes to force users to fall into line behind her.
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Post by riverman on Jan 27, 2020 11:33:54 GMT
Apparently the minister who approved the smart motorways claims he was misled about the risks on taking away the hard shoulder. Misled?! His first words should have been no,think again!
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Post by lawrieleslie on Jan 27, 2020 11:56:20 GMT
But the variable speed limits are not advisory but mandatory. A speed camera exists by every gantry so if you choose to ignore the speed limit you will be nabbed and incur speeding penalty. Apart from the obvious dangers already mentioned that must be urgently addressed, variable speed limits do work to ease congestion imo. I drive to Bristol regularly from Devon using M5/M4/M32 and the "smart" section on M5 and M4 seems to work. I always use my cars speed limiter to ensure compliance to variable speed limits. It won’t be long before this is automated to enforce cars to adhere to the variable limits. Unless memory is failing me, the smart motorways I have used always have the variable speed limits in a red circle, which means they are mandatory. Your memory serves you well Banksy ......exactly what I was saying, variable speed limits are mandatory. Supersimonstainrod stated in his post that, in his experience, few people observed them. Not in my experience for sure.
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Post by thepremierbanksy on Jan 27, 2020 12:34:51 GMT
Unless memory is failing me, the smart motorways I have used always have the variable speed limits in a red circle, which means they are mandatory. Your memory serves you well Banksy ......exactly what I was saying, variable speed limits are mandatory. Supersimonstainrod stated in his post that, in his experience, few people observed them. Not in my experience for sure. Sorry, reading comprehension failure! Monday morning.
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Post by mattintheprem on Jan 27, 2020 22:12:31 GMT
Unless memory is failing me, the smart motorways I have used always have the variable speed limits in a red circle, which means they are mandatory. Your memory serves you well Banksy ......exactly what I was saying, variable speed limits are mandatory. Supersimonstainrod stated in his post that, in his experience, few people observed them. Not in my experience for sure. @lawrieleslie The speed camera boxes mounted on the overhead gantries are mostly long gone, even though the markings have still been left on the motorway. There are possibly still some on the M25 but they've gone from everywhere else. The fixed cameras on the motorway now are nearly all the yellow boxes which are mounted onto the down leg of the gantry poles next to the hard shoulder/lane 1 depending how "smart" your motorway of choice is. It is still Russian roulette as to which one of the installations actually has a camera in it though, from my experience driving over 50K+ miles a year there are still very few cameras. You can also still drive past a live yellow camera at 80mph during normal 70mph limits and you won't set it off, anything much over 80 and you are risking it. They do adjust to the variable limits so you do have to be careful when the limits are down to 40/50/60 not to exceed the limit by very much. On another topic does anybody know anybody who has ever been done by an average speed camera in a roadworks section? I certainly don't. Lorries are a bloody nightmare as they will still do their maximum 56 mph in every stretch of 50 mph so if you go 50 in the inside or middle lanes you end up with a lorry up your arse so I generally try and stick to the outside lane and go at least 56 mph to get a bit of room. The sooner they do something out to make all the "smart" motorways follow the same rules the better, some have part-time use of the hard shoulder (e.g. M42) while others have no hard shoulder at all it just confuses drivers, especially occasional motorway users. Only this morning a lorry was driving down the hard shoulder on the M42 near the M6 junction when it wasn't a live lane. They should at least have the overhead gantry signs on permanently so there is always a red cross over the hard shoulder when its not a live lane. I spend far too much time on motorways.............
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Post by lawrieleslie on Jan 27, 2020 22:51:51 GMT
Your memory serves you well Banksy ......exactly what I was saying, variable speed limits are mandatory. Supersimonstainrod stated in his post that, in his experience, few people observed them. Not in my experience for sure. @lawrieleslie The speed camera boxes mounted on the overhead gantries are mostly long gone, even though the markings have still been left on the motorway. There are possibly still some on the M25 but they've gone from everywhere else. The fixed cameras on the motorway now are nearly all the yellow boxes which are mounted onto the down leg of the gantry poles next to the hard shoulder/lane 1 depending how "smart" your motorway of choice is. It is still Russian roulette as to which one of the installations actually has a camera in it though, from my experience driving over 50K+ miles a year there are still very few cameras. You can also still drive past a live yellow camera at 80mph during normal 70mph limits and you won't set it off, anything much over 80 and you are risking it. They do adjust to the variable limits so you do have to be careful when the limits are down to 40/50/60 not to exceed the limit by very much. On another topic does anybody know anybody who has ever been done by an average speed camera in a roadworks section? I certainly don't. Lorries are a bloody nightmare as they will still do their maximum 56 mph in every stretch of 50 mph so if you go 50 in the inside or middle lanes you end up with a lorry up your arse so I generally try and stick to the outside lane and go at least 56 mph to get a bit of room. The sooner they do something out to make all the "smart" motorways follow the same rules the better, some have part-time use of the hard shoulder (e.g. M42) while others have no hard shoulder at all it just confuses drivers, especially occasional motorway users. Only this morning a lorry was driving down the hard shoulder on the M42 near the M6 junction when it wasn't a live lane. They should at least have the overhead gantry signs on permanently so there is always a red cross over the hard shoulder when its not a live lane. I spend far too much time on motorways............. Thanks for the informed information Matt. I have experience of the M3, M4, M5, and M6 smart sections of motorway. All I will say regarding the cameras is that my sat nav doesn’t stop bleeping at me before every gantry warning me of up coming speed cameras. Additionally regardless of leeway given at these speed cameras I feel safer using my cars variable speed limiter to ensure I don’t exceed the limit. TBH most other vehicles seem to do the same. Regarding the road works speed cameras, my only speeding ticket in almost 50 years of driving was when driving to Lichfield when I was nabbed doing 50mph in a temporary 40mph limit. That was in 2005 mind you so things could be different now. Here in Plymouth we have a very annoying set of 30mph average speed cameras on an open 2 mile stretch of dual carriageway that seems absolutely pointless other than as a cash cow.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jan 27, 2020 22:57:57 GMT
@lawrieleslie The speed camera boxes mounted on the overhead gantries are mostly long gone, even though the markings have still been left on the motorway. There are possibly still some on the M25 but they've gone from everywhere else. The fixed cameras on the motorway now are nearly all the yellow boxes which are mounted onto the down leg of the gantry poles next to the hard shoulder/lane 1 depending how "smart" your motorway of choice is. It is still Russian roulette as to which one of the installations actually has a camera in it though, from my experience driving over 50K+ miles a year there are still very few cameras. You can also still drive past a live yellow camera at 80mph during normal 70mph limits and you won't set it off, anything much over 80 and you are risking it. They do adjust to the variable limits so you do have to be careful when the limits are down to 40/50/60 not to exceed the limit by very much. On another topic does anybody know anybody who has ever been done by an average speed camera in a roadworks section? I certainly don't. Lorries are a bloody nightmare as they will still do their maximum 56 mph in every stretch of 50 mph so if you go 50 in the inside or middle lanes you end up with a lorry up your arse so I generally try and stick to the outside lane and go at least 56 mph to get a bit of room. The sooner they do something out to make all the "smart" motorways follow the same rules the better, some have part-time use of the hard shoulder (e.g. M42) while others have no hard shoulder at all it just confuses drivers, especially occasional motorway users. Only this morning a lorry was driving down the hard shoulder on the M42 near the M6 junction when it wasn't a live lane. They should at least have the overhead gantry signs on permanently so there is always a red cross over the hard shoulder when its not a live lane. I spend far too much time on motorways............. Thanks for the informed information Matt. I have experience of the M3, M4, M5, and M6 smart sections of motorway. All I will say regarding the cameras is that my sat nav doesn’t stop bleeping at me before every gantry warning me of up coming speed cameras. Additionally regardless of leeway given at these speed cameras I feel safer using my cars variable speed limiter to ensure I don’t exceed the limit. TBH most other vehicles seem to do the same. Regarding the road works speed cameras, my only speeding ticket in almost 50 years of driving was when driving to Lichfield when I was nabbed doing 50mph in a temporary 40mph limit. That was in 2005 mind you so things could be different now. Here in Plymouth we have a very annoying set of 30mph average speed cameras on an open 2 mile stretch of dual carriageway that seems absolutely pointless other than as a cash cow. The bus lanes are a pain in Plymouth Lawrie, especially around Derriford hospital
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Post by felonious on Jan 28, 2020 6:01:31 GMT
Your memory serves you well Banksy ......exactly what I was saying, variable speed limits are mandatory. Supersimonstainrod stated in his post that, in his experience, few people observed them. Not in my experience for sure. @lawrieleslie The speed camera boxes mounted on the overhead gantries are mostly long gone, even though the markings have still been left on the motorway. There are possibly still some on the M25 but they've gone from everywhere else. The fixed cameras on the motorway now are nearly all the yellow boxes which are mounted onto the down leg of the gantry poles next to the hard shoulder/lane 1 depending how "smart" your motorway of choice is. It is still Russian roulette as to which one of the installations actually has a camera in it though, from my experience driving over 50K+ miles a year there are still very few cameras. You can also still drive past a live yellow camera at 80mph during normal 70mph limits and you won't set it off, anything much over 80 and you are risking it. They do adjust to the variable limits so you do have to be careful when the limits are down to 40/50/60 not to exceed the limit by very much. On another topic does anybody know anybody who has ever been done by an average speed camera in a roadworks section? I certainly don't. Lorries are a bloody nightmare as they will still do their maximum 56 mph in every stretch of 50 mph so if you go 50 in the inside or middle lanes you end up with a lorry up your arse so I generally try and stick to the outside lane and go at least 56 mph to get a bit of room.The sooner they do something out to make all the "smart" motorways follow the same rules the better, some have part-time use of the hard shoulder (e.g. M42) while others have no hard shoulder at all it just confuses drivers, especially occasional motorway users. Only this morning a lorry was driving down the hard shoulder on the M42 near the M6 junction when it wasn't a live lane. They should at least have the overhead gantry signs on permanently so there is always a red cross over the hard shoulder when its not a live lane. I spend far too much time on motorways............. I got done for doing 56 between J19 and J18 on the M6 in the roadworks pre the opening of the "smart" motorway. Coming back from a gig in Manchester got on at Knutsford in two solid lanes of artics. Doing 50 they were either up my backside or overtaking pitch back, shit weather and after feeling uncomfortable for a few mile I got out to the outside lane. What I'd like to know is how they stay on the road if they're constantly doing over 50?
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 28, 2020 20:45:17 GMT
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Post by songthrush01 on Jan 28, 2020 20:54:44 GMT
Apparently the minister who approved the smart motorways claims he was misled about the risks on taking away the hard shoulder. Misled?! His first words should have been no,think again! who was the minister at the time.
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Post by scfcwebby on Jan 28, 2020 20:55:12 GMT
Your memory serves you well Banksy ......exactly what I was saying, variable speed limits are mandatory. Supersimonstainrod stated in his post that, in his experience, few people observed them. Not in my experience for sure. @lawrieleslie The speed camera boxes mounted on the overhead gantries are mostly long gone, even though the markings have still been left on the motorway. There are possibly still some on the M25 but they've gone from everywhere else. The fixed cameras on the motorway now are nearly all the yellow boxes which are mounted onto the down leg of the gantry poles next to the hard shoulder/lane 1 depending how "smart" your motorway of choice is. It is still Russian roulette as to which one of the installations actually has a camera in it though, from my experience driving over 50K+ miles a year there are still very few cameras. You can also still drive past a live yellow camera at 80mph during normal 70mph limits and you won't set it off, anything much over 80 and you are risking it. They do adjust to the variable limits so you do have to be careful when the limits are down to 40/50/60 not to exceed the limit by very much. On another topic does anybody know anybody who has ever been done by an average speed camera in a roadworks section? I certainly don't. Lorries are a bloody nightmare as they will still do their maximum 56 mph in every stretch of 50 mph so if you go 50 in the inside or middle lanes you end up with a lorry up your arse so I generally try and stick to the outside lane and go at least 56 mph to get a bit of room. The sooner they do something out to make all the "smart" motorways follow the same rules the better, some have part-time use of the hard shoulder (e.g. M42) while others have no hard shoulder at all it just confuses drivers, especially occasional motorway users. Only this morning a lorry was driving down the hard shoulder on the M42 near the M6 junction when it wasn't a live lane. They should at least have the overhead gantry signs on permanently so there is always a red cross over the hard shoulder when its not a live lane. I spend far too much time on motorways............. In my last job, the wife of one of our drivers drove the whole stretch of M62 from Liverpool to Manchester, through the 50mph average speed zone doing 80 and slowing down to 50 for the cameras 😂
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Post by steve66 on Jan 29, 2020 7:45:39 GMT
Smart motorway - Wikipedia In 2007 plans were announced by the then secretary of state for transport, Ruth Kelly, to extend the scheme to two sections of the M6 motorway near Birmingham (4-5 and 8a-10) by 2011 at a cost of £150 million.
Judging by this it was muted a long time ago!!
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