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Post by zerps on Sept 20, 2019 20:26:03 GMT
We should sack him then start plans to sack the next manager but not until he’s announced, obviously.
Otherwise we’ll be left behind.
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Post by mrcoke on Sept 20, 2019 20:26:53 GMT
The Board who chose Mr Jones know the shit he has maintained us in...Us fans show no signs of ousting him at matches its just here on our fanboard, so why should they get rid ???..my question is why are we not vocal about ridding him ??? Do we want him to stay ? it seems so..I cannot think of another time when we had a manager with such a shit record never came under any negative vocals ?? I will always cheer my team who ever the manager is. Neither will I ever boo my team. Even if we lose tomorrow provided the team puts in a decent effort like the 10 men did last week I will continue to support a decision by the Board to give him more time. It is clear to me that when Jones was appointed he needed 2 years to turn things around just as it took the managers at Wolves, Norwich, and Sheff Utd and probably Leeds.
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Post by wingy11 on Sept 20, 2019 20:39:02 GMT
The Board who chose Mr Jones know the shit he has maintained us in...Us fans show no signs of ousting him at matches its just here on our fanboard, so why should they get rid ???..my question is why are we not vocal about ridding him ??? Do we want him to stay ? it seems so..I cannot think of another time when we had a manager with such a shit record never came under any negative vocals ?? Cus we are told being negative doesn’t get us anywhere
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Sept 20, 2019 20:46:17 GMT
The Board who chose Mr Jones know the shit he has maintained us in...Us fans show no signs of ousting him at matches its just here on our fanboard, so why should they get rid ???..my question is why are we not vocal about ridding him ??? Do we want him to stay ? it seems so..I cannot think of another time when we had a manager with such a shit record never came under any negative vocals ?? Because the 4 people on here who post incessantly about "surely he'll be gone tomorrow" every single day don't make much of an impact in a sea of 20,000+ fans? to answer your question, YES, we want him to stay and build the team he was hired to build. You won’t sea 20,000 fans again if he doesn’t turn things around...🤣
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Post by tony1234 on Sept 20, 2019 21:23:46 GMT
Yes - can see that's confusing, sorry. There seemed to be a thought that we sack him if we lose against Brentford, but that begs the perfectly reasonable question of "so what happens if we win?" What then? Win or lose, its so easy to get sucked up into the moment. Win - and its so tempting to think - (or hope) - we've turned a corner. If we lose, but its down to another mistake, or we hit a post etc, its tempting for some to just think "ah, the win is coming, give him another game or two." So, was suggesting that the answer to the question shouldn't really be determined by the next game anyway, its too emotional, but rather against a set of targets that are set out beforehand. Losing against Brentford and failing the 10pt/10game target is one and the same in this case, you are right. My point though was that we should be saying not "he needs to beat Brentford" but rather "he now needs to win 3 on the trot starting with Brentford". And then if he hits that target (huge 'if'), he then needs 12pts from the next 10games. Fail at any points, and he's out and noone can really say its bad luck. So what your saying then then is ... Lose or draw against Brentford and he's toast. Win against Brentford but lose or draw against Forest, then he's still toast. Win against Brentford AND win against Forest but lose or draw against Huddersfield, well even then, he's out of the door, as we'd still have amassed only 7 or 8 points from 10 games. Using your formula, then his future WILL be decided on each individual game over the next three matches, simply fail to win each and every one and it's bye, bye Nathan ... Yes, that's about it! Based on his record, the odds of him being toast by 5pm on Saturday are 87%. (The only caveat is in something like the scenario in your fourth line, where he wins the next 2 games. The reality is that he'd probably get a temporary stay of execution in that case, though given he wins 1 in 7.5 games, the odds of that happening are 56-1! If this very unlikely case did happen, we couldn't afford to only conclude it had been a blip in another 10 games time, over which period the board dithered and hoped and convinced themselves in miracles as we failed to pick up enough points. So, perhaps we could reset an interim target for 5 more games time of hitting, say, 7pts (which would be 13pts in 15games) before demanding he hits 20pts or 21pts by 20 games. But generally, yes, that's the principle - the decision should be taken objectively - and 10pts in 10games felt really quite fair and generous at the start of the season, so can't see any reason why it still isn't.. Unreasonable?
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Post by stokiekm on Sept 20, 2019 21:41:17 GMT
The Board who chose Mr Jones know the shit he has maintained us in...Us fans show no signs of ousting him at matches its just here on our fanboard, so why should they get rid ???..my question is why are we not vocal about ridding him ??? Do we want him to stay ? it seems so..I cannot think of another time when we had a manager with such a shit record never came under any negative vocals ?? Because this board probably doesnt reflect the majority of the fan base. The internet is full of hysterics for minor things, things are snowballed. Most reasonable people in the real world see it is a project and and work in progress. Correct. Forums are generally only for moaning. Look at some of the recent poles, feeble numbers voting compared to the fan base. Ignore a large percentage of those for simply living to be critical and you end up with a tiny if not irrelevant number that would be prepared to be vocal
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Post by march4 on Sept 20, 2019 22:11:39 GMT
We were 8th on Boxing Day in his last season having just walloped Liverpool 3-1. Any suggestion that the last two years were awful is complete and utter nonsense. And within 13 matches we were in real danger of being relegated. But you know that. Wasn’t that 13 games after the process started. Thankfully TP pulled things back to stability and we finished with a creditable end to the season. Sacking him at that point was outrageously preposterous and we can now see it was a bigger error than not insuring the Butler Street roof.
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Post by mrcoke on Sept 20, 2019 22:44:51 GMT
And within 13 matches we were in real danger of being relegated. But you know that. Wasn’t that 13 games after the process started. Thankfully TP pulled things back to stability and we finished with a creditable end to the season. Sacking him at that point was outrageously preposterous and we can now see it was a bigger error than not insuring the Butler Street roof. Absolutely ridiculous statement. We got a new manager, played some of the best football in 40 years and achieved 3 9th place finishes, an achievement unmatched by most premier League sides. Pulis ball was dire, 10 men behind the ball, relying on set pieces to score, and focussed on only one thing 40 points. Pulis would never achieve a top half finish and let any side that hangs around the bottom half of the Prem. year after year eventually you drop out. In fact we would probably have dropped out sooner under Pulis than we did under Hughes/Lambert, like West Brom. Pulis could not keep his job at Palace and got sacked by Middlesbrough. Boro fans were delighted to see the back of him, because as we saw during his last half season the football was absolutely dire.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Sept 20, 2019 22:55:02 GMT
So what your saying then then is ... Lose or draw against Brentford and he's toast. Win against Brentford but lose or draw against Forest, then he's still toast. Win against Brentford AND win against Forest but lose or draw against Huddersfield, well even then, he's out of the door, as we'd still have amassed only 7 or 8 points from 10 games. Using your formula, then his future WILL be decided on each individual game over the next three matches, simply fail to win each and every one and it's bye, bye Nathan ... Yes, that's about it! Based on his record, the odds of him being toast by 5pm on Saturday are 87%. (The only caveat is in something like the scenario in your fourth line, where he wins the next 2 games. The reality is that he'd probably get a temporary stay of execution in that case, though given he wins 1 in 7.5 games, the odds of that happening are 56-1! If this very unlikely case did happen, we couldn't afford to only conclude it had been a blip in another 10 games time, over which period the board dithered and hoped and convinced themselves in miracles as we failed to pick up enough points. So, perhaps we could reset an interim target for 5 more games time of hitting, say, 7pts (which would be 13pts in 15games) before demanding he hits 20pts or 21pts by 20 games. But generally, yes, that's the principle - the decision should be taken objectively - and 10pts in 10games felt really quite fair and generous at the start of the season, so can't see any reason why it still isn't.. Unreasonable? The only thing that was unreasonable (from you), was after I had posted that I think he'll be gone if we lose heavily on Saturday, you posted: The decision to axe Jones can't just be on one game aka Brentford. When quite clearly, by your own admission above, it most certainly can be.
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Post by chigstoke on Sept 20, 2019 23:04:34 GMT
And within 13 matches we were in real danger of being relegated. But you know that. Wasn’t that 13 games after the process started. Thankfully TP pulled things back to stability and we finished with a creditable end to the season. Sacking him at that point was outrageously preposterous and we can now see it was a bigger error than not insuring the Butler Street roof. Are you having everyone on here march? Get fucking real will you. The process had fuck all to do with Pulis nearly relegating this club. Stick your walloping Liverpool and stability up your arse.
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Post by GoBoks on Sept 20, 2019 23:28:48 GMT
Because the 4 people on here who post incessantly about "surely he'll be gone tomorrow" every single day don't make much of an impact in a sea of 20,000+ fans? to answer your question, YES, we want him to stay and build the team he was hired to build. You won’t sea 20,000 fans again if he doesn’t turn things around...🤣 I guess then at least the fans who are left will actually mean it when they sing "we'll be with you .." 🤣
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Post by DC1863 on Sept 20, 2019 23:45:13 GMT
Well the board have given him the dreaded vote of confidence, but personally I would be very surprised if a loss against Brentford would get Jones the sack, unless it was a serious drubbing.
If we do lose I imagine NJ will get the Crawley and Forest games to show signs of turning it around before the axe is dropped. 3 defeats in a row and I could see the club bringing in a new regime before the Huddersfield game that Spinks seemed to attribute so much importance to.
It's do or die now for Jones and some of these players now, Brentford are a decent side but they're in poor form and it's a winnable game as are the next 3. Minimum of 7 points from the 3 league games or we could get sucked in to a relegation battle and the board will act.
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Post by tony1234 on Sept 20, 2019 23:46:55 GMT
Yes, that's about it! Based on his record, the odds of him being toast by 5pm on Saturday are 87%. (The only caveat is in something like the scenario in your fourth line, where he wins the next 2 games. The reality is that he'd probably get a temporary stay of execution in that case, though given he wins 1 in 7.5 games, the odds of that happening are 56-1! If this very unlikely case did happen, we couldn't afford to only conclude it had been a blip in another 10 games time, over which period the board dithered and hoped and convinced themselves in miracles as we failed to pick up enough points. So, perhaps we could reset an interim target for 5 more games time of hitting, say, 7pts (which would be 13pts in 15games) before demanding he hits 20pts or 21pts by 20 games. But generally, yes, that's the principle - the decision should be taken objectively - and 10pts in 10games felt really quite fair and generous at the start of the season, so can't see any reason why it still isn't.. Unreasonable? The only thing that was unreasonable (from you), was after I had posted that I think he'll be gone if we lose heavily on Saturday, you posted: The decision to axe Jones can't just be on one game aka Brentford. When quite clearly, by your own admission above, it most certainly can be. sorry pal!
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Post by wingy11 on Sept 21, 2019 0:35:51 GMT
Im hoping the board are already in process of locating a replacement manager, the facts are stacking up, and surely this insane crusade cant continue. Unless stoke want league 1 football of course. Stoke and Nathan jones objectives were to at least guide us to the playoffs at the beginning of the season and hopefully go up, Nathan’s words, not to avoid relegation. Its a disgrace start to the season how long can you keep blaming bad luck, and errors.. for what ever reason it isn’t working. I blame the board for poor recruitment, of managers
Lambert never the right-man for premiership Rowett actually did ok, lost the fans though so had to go Jones- unproven manager at this level and a down grade on rowett
We need a well rated manager to get us out of this mess with plenty of experience. Or else its game over.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Sept 21, 2019 1:00:06 GMT
Im hoping the board are already in process of locating a replacement manager, the facts are stacking up, and surely this insane crusade cant continue. Unless stoke want league 1 football of course. Stoke and Nathan jones objectives were to at least guide us to the playoffs at the beginning of the season and hopefully go up, Nathan’s words, not to avoid relegation. Its a disgrace start to the season how long can you keep blaming bad luck, and errors.. for what ever reason it isn’t working. I blame the board for poor recruitment, of managers Lambert never the right-man for premiership Rowett actually did ok, lost the fans though so had to go Jones- unproven manager at this level and a down grade on rowett We need a well rated manager to get us out of this mess with plenty of experience. Or else its game over. In what world did Rowett do okay, he spent 50mil to struggle at keeping us mid table, he made a complete mess of it.
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Post by rivival on Sept 21, 2019 1:19:49 GMT
Wasn’t that 13 games after the process started. Thankfully TP pulled things back to stability and we finished with a creditable end to the season. Sacking him at that point was outrageously preposterous and we can now see it was a bigger error than not insuring the Butler Street roof. Absolutely ridiculous statement. We got a new manager, played some of the best football in 40 years and achieved 3 9th place finishes, an achievement unmatched by most premier League sides. Pulis ball was dire, 10 men behind the ball, relying on set pieces to score, and focussed on only one thing 40 points. Pulis would never achieve a top half finish and let any side that hangs around the bottom half of the Prem. year after year eventually you drop out. In fact we would probably have dropped out sooner under Pulis than we did under Hughes/Lambert, like West Brom. Pulis could not keep his job at Palace and got sacked by Middlesbrough. Boro fans were delighted to see the back of him, because as we saw during his last half season the football was absolutely dire. Speaking the truth will get you nowhere on this board where so many wear rose tinted glasses and pin blame on anyone but the culprits. If you paid people to spout the kind of bullshit that March comes out with it would not be better.
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Post by NassauDave on Sept 21, 2019 4:23:53 GMT
Samsonite should be packed tonight if he has any sense....
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Post by Pugsley on Sept 21, 2019 6:54:50 GMT
We should sack him then start plans to sack the next manager but not until he’s announced, obviously. Otherwise we’ll be left behind. As daft as it seems, some clubs do that. They have plans in place way down the line regarding management recruitment. Meanwhile at Stoke we lurch from one crisis to another, making it up as we go along.
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Post by stokiesteve on Sept 21, 2019 7:37:10 GMT
The club have shown balls to back their man and they deserve credit.
The amazing bad luck we have been having has to end soon.
Jones will come good and so will Stoke, lets get behind him and give him our support - I have a feeling the tide will turn and that could be today.
Come on Stoke
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Sept 21, 2019 8:07:36 GMT
Well the board have given him the dreaded vote of confidence, but personally I would be very surprised if a loss against Brentford would get Jones the sack, unless it was a serious drubbing. If we do lose I imagine NJ will get the Crawley and Forest games to show signs of turning it around before the axe is dropped. 3 defeats in a row and I could see the club bringing in a new regime before the Huddersfield game that Spinks seemed to attribute so much importance to. It's do or die now for Jones and some of these players now, Brentford are a decent side but they're in poor form and it's a winnable game as are the next 3. Minimum of 7 points from the 3 league games or we could get sucked in to a relegation battle and the board will act. 'Minimum of 7 points from the 3 games or we could get sucked into a relegation battle' Mate, we're in a relegation battle now. There are some very decent teams in this league and the idea that we could put 3 or 4 straight wins together to climb out of the mess we're already in is daft.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Sept 21, 2019 8:29:35 GMT
Im hoping the board are already in process of locating a replacement manager, the facts are stacking up, and surely this insane crusade cant continue. Unless stoke want league 1 football of course. Stoke and Nathan jones objectives were to at least guide us to the playoffs at the beginning of the season and hopefully go up, Nathan’s words, not to avoid relegation. Its a disgrace start to the season how long can you keep blaming bad luck, and errors.. for what ever reason it isn’t working. I blame the board for poor recruitment, of managers Lambert never the right-man for premiership Rowett actually did ok, lost the fans though so had to go Jones- unproven manager at this level and a down grade on rowett We need a well rated manager to get us out of this mess with plenty of experience. Or else its game over. In what world did Rowett do okay, he spent 50mil to struggle at keeping us mid table, he made a complete mess of it. Nearly everybody under estimated just how poor the Premiership core had become and were expecting that a few half decent signings would see us bounce straight back. It became clear pretty quickly just how rotten the foundations were but after a dodgy start Rowett got the team at least competing as a Championship side. Rowett did stabilise the club - what he didn't do was live up to what turned out to be the unrealistic expectations of the fans. The project under Rowett was to add to the Premiership squad and bounce straight back, That project failed. The project under Jones is to gut what's left of the Premiership squad and build a functioning Championship squad with technically inferior players. The fact that player for player the squad is now weaker than it has been for a decade is not Jones's fault - it is down to the reality of our situation, Like it or not we're just another ex Premiership side struggling to compete in a very tough league. Jones is struggling and his appointment was a gamble from the outset. But our problems lie much deeper than Jones's inexperience and abilities as a manager. We've started a major rebuild and that's tough - regardless of who the manager is. In many ways Jones has got a far harder job than Hughes, Lambert or Rowett - and it may turn out to be too much for him. I just wish more posters would recognise that a lot of our problems are down to the situation we are in and not just the fault of the manager.
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Post by lordb on Sept 21, 2019 8:31:14 GMT
In what world did Rowett do okay, he spent 50mil to struggle at keeping us mid table, he made a complete mess of it. Nearly everybody under estimated just how poor the Premiership core had become and were expecting that a few half decent signings would see us bounce straight back. It became clear pretty quickly just how rotten the foundations were but after a dodgy start Rowett got the team at least competing as a Championship side. Rowett did stabilise the club - what he didn't do was live up to what turned out to be the unrealistic expectations of the fans. The project under Rowett was to add to the Premiership squad and bounce straight back, That project failed. The project under Jones is to gut what's left of the Premiership squad and build a functioning Championship squad with technically inferior players. The fact that player for player the squad is now weaker than it has been for a decade is not Jones's fault - it is down to the reality of our situation, Like it or not we're just another ex Premiership side struggling to compete in a very tough league. Jones is struggling and his appointment was a gamble from the outset. But our problems lie much deeper than Jones's inexperience and abilities as a manager. We've started a major rebuild and that's tough - regardless of who the manager is. In many ways Jones has got a far harder job than Hughes, Lambert or Rowett - and it may turn out to be too much for him. I just wish more posters would recognise that a lot of our problems are down to the situation we are in and not just the fault of the manager. Rowett fed those expectations by talking about promotion
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Post by mistergumby on Sept 21, 2019 8:43:03 GMT
And within 13 matches we were in real danger of being relegated. But you know that. Wasn’t that 13 games after the process started. Thankfully TP pulled things back to stability and we finished with a creditable end to the season. Sacking him at that point was outrageously preposterous and we can now see it was a bigger error than not insuring the Butler Street roof.
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Post by mistergumby on Sept 21, 2019 8:48:47 GMT
Im hoping the board are already in process of locating a replacement manager, the facts are stacking up, and surely this insane crusade cant continue. Unless stoke want league 1 football of course. Stoke and Nathan jones objectives were to at least guide us to the playoffs at the beginning of the season and hopefully go up, Nathan’s words, not to avoid relegation. Its a disgrace start to the season how long can you keep blaming bad luck, and errors.. for what ever reason it isn’t working. I blame the board for poor recruitment, of managers Lambert never the right-man for premiership Rowett actually did ok, lost the fans though so had to go Jones- unproven manager at this level and a down grade on rowett We need a well rated manager to get us out of this mess with plenty of experience. Or else its game over.
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Post by stokeykez on Sept 21, 2019 9:30:08 GMT
The club have shown balls to back their man and they deserve credit. The amazing bad luck we have been having has to end soon. Jones will come good and so will Stoke, lets get behind him and give him our support - I have a feeling the tide will turn and that could be today. Come on Stoke I still dont understand what this incredibly bad luck is though. As ive said on a previous thread, missing penalties is down to shit ability, missing open goals is down to shit ability and low confidence. Own goals is ultimately down to crap tactics and ability and is no more than another club. Red card of Allen's due to complete inability to control a football and to maintain discipline when tackling the ball back. Injuries such as shawcross is only the same as what other clubs go through. So what are we actually meaning when we say about bad luck because when we look at the goals and then score lines represent nothing but a complete lack of confidence when conceding a goal and failure to convert good chances, that's not luck.
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Post by nott1 on Sept 21, 2019 10:09:12 GMT
Hopefully his very last game today!
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Post by Do it for dobing on Sept 21, 2019 10:10:55 GMT
Anything else other than a win should result in the sack for Jones it would be a complete dereliction of responsibility for the board to allow this disastrous management to continue
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2019 11:30:11 GMT
I'm predicting a 5-1 defeat today and Jones to leave by mutual consent tonight.
But I'd prefer a 5-1 win and Jones to win manager of the month , every month til the end of the season 🙂
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Post by scfcno1fan on Sept 21, 2019 11:42:42 GMT
Hopefully his very last game today! I’m hoping it’s not as I want us to win.
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Post by march4 on Sept 21, 2019 12:26:09 GMT
The games just get bigger and bigger for Jones.
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