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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2019 20:52:33 GMT
He's had 6 games with his team, and the last half of last season with a side that almost everyone said was shite. He deserves more time because we the other option is we bring in a dinosaur and stay rooted in the bottom 6 of this league for the whole season. I'd rather we stick by Jones than bring in a TP, Moyes, Hughton. Not that we could get the latter 2. He’s hardly playing the players he’s bought because they aren’t any better. In fact most are worse. He’s made a complete hash of it and can’t do anything other than this diamond he doesn’t have the players for. They aren’t bad players. Any “dinosaur” manager could get something out them with their experience the problem is NJ has one plan and that’s it. It’s too much too soon for him. We’ve only got worse under NJ and there have been no signs it’s getting better. I can’t believe he’s still got a job if I’m honest but we have a history of leaving things to late. I think NJ's problem has been that he hasn't stuck with the diamond to be honest. Our best performances statistically have been diamond games. 6 games is not too late at all. Had we been absolutely anus bummed for the 6 games I'd probably want him gone too, but we should absolutely be on at least 7 points so far from performances, and whilst that's not top 6 form, it's certainly enough to give some hope and promise. He has to stick with the diamond, and if in another 6 games we are performing as poorly as Birmingham and QPR then fine, I'd consider getting rid. Until then, it's too soon.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2019 20:58:48 GMT
He’s hardly playing the players he’s bought because they aren’t any better. In fact most are worse. He’s made a complete hash of it and can’t do anything other than this diamond he doesn’t have the players for. They aren’t bad players. Any “dinosaur” manager could get something out them with their experience the problem is NJ has one plan and that’s it. It’s too much too soon for him. We’ve only got worse under NJ and there have been no signs it’s getting better. I can’t believe he’s still got a job if I’m honest but we have a history of leaving things to late. I think NJ's problem has been that he hasn't stuck with the diamond to be honest. Our best performances statistically have been diamond games. 6 games is not too late at all. Had we been absolutely anus bummed for the 6 games I'd probably want him gone too, but we should absolutely be on at least 7 points so far from performances, and whilst that's not top 6 form, it's certainly enough to give some hope and promise. He has to stick with the diamond, and if in another 6 games we are performing as poorly as Birmingham and QPR then fine, I'd consider getting rid. Until then, it's too soon. We haven’t looked like winning a single one. It’s great we created some chances in the first two games but it means nothing when you can’t defend for toffee. 3 wins in 28 or however many it is now - he’s lucky to have a job. And quite frankly if they’ve got this wrong and not acted we deserve everything we get this season because at no other club would that be tolerated.
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Post by lordb on Sept 8, 2019 21:01:44 GMT
I think NJ's problem has been that he hasn't stuck with the diamond to be honest. Our best performances statistically have been diamond games. 6 games is not too late at all. Had we been absolutely anus bummed for the 6 games I'd probably want him gone too, but we should absolutely be on at least 7 points so far from performances, and whilst that's not top 6 form, it's certainly enough to give some hope and promise. He has to stick with the diamond, and if in another 6 games we are performing as poorly as Birmingham and QPR then fine, I'd consider getting rid. Until then, it's too soon. We haven’t looked like winning a single one. It’s great we created some chances in the first two games but it means nothing when you can’t defend for toffee. 3 wins in 28 or however many it is now - he’s lucky to have a job. And quite frankly if they’ve got this wrong and not acted we deserve everything we get this season because at no other club would that be tolerated. We looked like winning at Charlton and against Derby. Obviously we didn't!as you say defensively a soft touch QPR, PNE and Birmingham performances were utterly unacceptable.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2019 21:04:42 GMT
We haven’t looked like winning a single one. It’s great we created some chances in the first two games but it means nothing when you can’t defend for toffee. 3 wins in 28 or however many it is now - he’s lucky to have a job. And quite frankly if they’ve got this wrong and not acted we deserve everything we get this season because at no other club would that be tolerated. We looked like winning at Charlton and against Derby. Obviously we didn't!as you say defensively a soft touch QPR, PNE and Birmingham performances were utterly unacceptable. Yep, this. Although I'd say PNE was so hugely influenced by the keeping mistakes early on that I honestly write it off in my mind.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2019 21:06:47 GMT
We haven’t looked like winning a single one. It’s great we created some chances in the first two games but it means nothing when you can’t defend for toffee. 3 wins in 28 or however many it is now - he’s lucky to have a job. And quite frankly if they’ve got this wrong and not acted we deserve everything we get this season because at no other club would that be tolerated. We looked like winning at Charlton and against Derby. Obviously we didn't!as you say defensively a soft touch QPR, PNE and Birmingham performances were utterly unacceptable. Yes but his plan is clearly just to try to out score the other team and god knows what they do defensive wise in training because we’ve not been this bad defensively since last season under Hughes. All seems a bit naive for me. I was hoping he’d be gone but I’ll be there on Saturday and will show my support on the day...just hope we haven’t just wasted two valuable weeks giving him what can only be one or two more games.
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Post by berahinosgoals on Sept 8, 2019 21:18:21 GMT
Did he say judge me after 6 games, forgetting last season as that meant nothing apart from he got a look at some of the players do you think 6 games is fair, say we signed a manager in the summer and the same happened would you still be calling for his head? So he made a hash of last season then said to judge him after preseason. He had a preseason, signed 11 players, made a hash of that and now he’s asking for more time? The man who was getting promoted five short weeks ago. You’ve seen it with your own eyes he doesn’t have a clue. The league table doesn’t lie. It can lie after 6 games, it doesnt lie after 46. 40 games away. Signed 11 new players exactly, takes more than 6 games but in 2 we should have won if if wasnt for stupid gk errors by our hologram of a keeper
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Post by FrankButcher on Sept 8, 2019 21:21:05 GMT
He’s hardly playing the players he’s bought because they aren’t any better. In fact most are worse. He’s made a complete hash of it and can’t do anything other than this diamond he doesn’t have the players for. They aren’t bad players. Any “dinosaur” manager could get something out them with their experience the problem is NJ has one plan and that’s it. It’s too much too soon for him. We’ve only got worse under NJ and there have been no signs it’s getting better. I can’t believe he’s still got a job if I’m honest but we have a history of leaving things to late. I think NJ's problem has been that he hasn't stuck with the diamond to be honest. Our best performances statistically have been diamond games. 6 games is not too late at all. Had we been absolutely anus bummed for the 6 games I'd probably want him gone too, but we should absolutely be on at least 7 points so far from performances, and whilst that's not top 6 form, it's certainly enough to give some hope and promise. He has to stick with the diamond, and if in another 6 games we are performing as poorly as Birmingham and QPR then fine, I'd consider getting rid. Until then, it's too soon. Problem is he won't stick with the diamond, he can't even stick with a starting 11 never mind a system too much chopping and changing no team cohesion which will only add to the situation we are in my goodness its so obvious he's out of his depth if we can notice that I dread to think what the players think and judging by what Terry conroy said about certain players not breaking a sweat at Birmingham the writings on the wall they simply aren't playing for him. As for giving him another 6 games that's damn right mental I think PC will go on a game by game basis and have TP waiting in the wings ready to step in.
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Post by callas12 on Sept 8, 2019 21:34:23 GMT
For people saying Jones took on a mish mash team & to write off last season as it wasnt his squad, Dean Smith didnt need long to turn a very average squad at Villa into a promotion winning team last season did he?! & did he keep referring back to what he'd done or not done at Brentford?!! No he just got on with his new task in hand. You can either make an immediate impact or you cant.
On current stats and performances alone Jones has taken us from a mediocre mid table Championship team to one that is rock bottom and devoid of confidence with no one knowing where our next points are coming from.
The problem with Jones is he talks a good game but has alot to deliver on & I fear the harping back to his Luton days is living on part of his past record where he tasted a glimpse of success.. Most members of our current squad have nearly all played at a higher level than Jones ever did, I'm not so sure they trust in his direction or instructions.
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Post by BuzzB on Sept 8, 2019 21:43:34 GMT
He has ditched the diamond which shows he has lost his self belief to a large extent. For me on one hand he cannot be blamed totally, you prepare your team and send them out. Now if your keeper decides to have 4 mares in a row and you miss sitter after sitter while defending like novices then Jones is not to blame. Once over that white line its up to the players to implement the plans of the manager, he is powerless from the sidelines. His subsitutions however is one area where he can change things and this is where its 100% his doing, doesn't seem to have the nous. The quote " rabbit caught in headlights" has been used on here many times and I think its bang on the money, he is digging himself deeper and deeper by one, his constant bigging up of himself and two his bizarre team selections. Youthful pacey fast attacking football it is not Nathan. A group of 30 somethings resorting to hoofball. Don't get me started on the full backs I will be here all night!! If we lose the next two then for me he has to go, sadly.
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Post by gingerninja on Sept 8, 2019 21:47:02 GMT
Having just read Spinksy latest article in the sentinel I am not quite sure what to make of it.. he's asking for time from the owners, yet is back tracking on what he said at the end of last season... Really don't know what to make of it.
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Post by The man from Utch on Sept 8, 2019 21:57:31 GMT
I don't think any manager could turn things around the way in the we'd like them to do so at the moment. To me the buck stops with the ownership. Yes- they appointed the clueless Nathan. While our league position is not just down to Jones, he is 95 % to blame. We were 13th when he took over- with the same players plus his additions we have managed 3 wins and are rock bottom. That is following his tactics, team selections and daft substitutions- if it’s down to bad luck then he still needs to be binned- as Napoleon said “ I’d sooner have lucky Generals than good Generals.” My point was the problem is deeper than the manager, Jones might be part of the present problem, but not the cause of what we have all been witnessing since the League cup semis against Liverpool.
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Post by Gary Hackett on Sept 8, 2019 22:43:52 GMT
Just wants more time. We haven't bloody got time Nath at this rate! He really needs to stop talking about Luton. It's not as though he can fall back on anything else he's done in his career either. He's pissing me off now with all this lazy talk, he has to shut the fuck up and deliver or go.
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Post by roylandstoke on Sept 8, 2019 22:46:18 GMT
Is there any chance that he might fuck off back to Luton?
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Post by boskampsflaps on Sept 8, 2019 23:44:49 GMT
Did he say judge me after 6 games, forgetting last season as that meant nothing apart from he got a look at some of the players do you think 6 games is fair, say we signed a manager in the summer and the same happened would you still be calling for his head? So he made a hash of last season then said to judge him after preseason. He had a preseason, signed 11 players, made a hash of that and now he’s asking for more time? The man who was getting promoted five short weeks ago. You’ve seen it with your own eyes he doesn’t have a clue. The league table doesn’t lie. I don't think he made a hash of it at all, we were never getting promoted at that point and the season was only any good for him to see the players and who he likes, the table doesn't lie, its been 6 games, as I've said, its clear he panicked and has slowly moved away from his preferred formation etc and it made me rethink things about him but with that said its still only six games in, I want to see what he does after the break.
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Post by cousindupree on Sept 9, 2019 7:41:49 GMT
Jeez I am sick of hearing about what a great job you did at Luton Nathan. It was Luton Div 2 promotion well done lad. Maybe you should go back there and take them all the way to the Champions league.....Christ he is beginning to piss me off. Get on with the job here of actually winning a few games.
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Post by barton on Sept 9, 2019 7:43:31 GMT
I think part of the problem is that he knows his best 11 but has a problem due to players being inconsistent, or don't understand the system, and affecting the balance of the team. NJ missed out on 'quality player' signings, at least 3 or 4, which would have made a difference.
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Post by chigstoke on Sept 9, 2019 7:50:04 GMT
I think part of the problem is that he knows his best 11 but has a problem due to players being inconsistent, or don't understand the system, and affecting the balance of the team. NJ missed out on 'quality player' signings, at least 3 or 4, which would have made a difference. Have Sawyers, Gayle, Ajayi and someone like Besic for the DM role in the diamond and it would have looked much better than currently. However we signed none of them players.
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Post by tpholloway1 on Sept 9, 2019 7:56:03 GMT
Jeez I am sick of hearing about what a great job you did at Luton Nathan. It was Luton Div 2 promotion well done lad. Maybe you should go back there and take them all the way to the Champions league.....Christ he is beginning to piss me off. Get on with the job here of actually winning a few games. And Luton carried on and won promotion without him whereas we've gone from mid-table mediocrity to rock bottom laughing stocks.
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Post by FrankButcher on Sept 9, 2019 8:03:51 GMT
I think part of the problem is that he knows his best 11 but has a problem due to players being inconsistent, or don't understand the system, and affecting the balance of the team. NJ missed out on 'quality player' signings, at least 3 or 4, which would have made a difference. Have Sawyers, Gayle, Ajayi and someone like Besic for the DM role in the diamond and it would have looked much better than currently. However we signed none of them players.
If you had a chance to play for a manager like Slaven Bilic or Nathan Jones I know who I'd choose sawyers and ajayi made the right decision in my opinion.
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Post by GoBoks on Sept 9, 2019 10:57:35 GMT
For people saying Jones took on a mish mash team & to write off last season as it wasnt his squad, Dean Smith didnt need long to turn a very average squad at Villa into a promotion winning team last season did he?! & did he keep referring back to what he'd done or not done at Brentford?!! No he just got on with his new task in hand. You can either make an immediate impact or you cant. On current stats and performances alone Jones has taken us from a mediocre mid table Championship team to one that is rock bottom and devoid of confidence with no one knowing where our next points are coming from. The problem with Jones is he talks a good game but has alot to deliver on & I fear the harping back to his Luton days is living on part of his past record where he tasted a glimpse of success.. Most members of our current squad have nearly all played at a higher level than Jones ever did, I'm not so sure they trust in his direction or instructions. Is this the very average Villa team that in fact ended one position higher the previous season?
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Post by callas12 on Sept 9, 2019 11:06:17 GMT
For people saying Jones took on a mish mash team & to write off last season as it wasnt his squad, Dean Smith didnt need long to turn a very average squad at Villa into a promotion winning team last season did he?! & did he keep referring back to what he'd done or not done at Brentford?!! No he just got on with his new task in hand. You can either make an immediate impact or you cant. On current stats and performances alone Jones has taken us from a mediocre mid table Championship team to one that is rock bottom and devoid of confidence with no one knowing where our next points are coming from. The problem with Jones is he talks a good game but has alot to deliver on & I fear the harping back to his Luton days is living on part of his past record where he tasted a glimpse of success.. Most members of our current squad have nearly all played at a higher level than Jones ever did, I'm not so sure they trust in his direction or instructions. Is this the very average Villa team that in fact ended one position higher the previous season? They were very average at the point Bruce got sacked & Smith took over yes. 1 win in 9 league games speaks for itself! Same as Jones Stoke managerial record does as it stands
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Post by Miles Offside on Sept 9, 2019 17:25:38 GMT
I'm surprised he's still here. Thought he'd have been gone at the start of the two week break.
I'm torn now between wanting to see him turn things around and just wanting to see the back of him.
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Post by Dresden_scfc on Sept 9, 2019 17:44:45 GMT
Surely very last chance against Bristol, in all honesty he should have gone already before things get even worse massively decline, we need turn a corner and quick. We'd all life him turn it around but its almost impossible to see.
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Post by mrcoke on Sept 9, 2019 18:02:42 GMT
I think part of the problem is that he knows his best 11 but has a problem due to players being inconsistent, or don't understand the system, and affecting the balance of the team. NJ missed out on 'quality player' signings, at least 3 or 4, which would have made a difference. Have Sawyers, Gayle, Ajayi and someone like Besic for the DM role in the diamond and it would have looked much better than currently. However we signed none of them players.
I don't think Stoke will be making any expensive signings till they have substantially reduced the wage bill. We carried forward a huge wage bill from the Prem days and then gave new contracts to Butland and Allen plus made another group of expensive signings under Rowett. The club gambled by backing Rowett with £50m of signings and it did not pay off. I think the picture is quite clear we have to rebuild from scratch. During the last couple of windows the club has managed to move on about half of the expensive players on the books and I expect it will take till next summer to move on the rest. I think the club did not expect to still have Butland, Allen, Etebo all still on the books. Jones was hired to the long term and the club will give him every chance to do his thing before changing managers again, and will only consider sacking him and all his support coaches if we are still bottom at the next international break. Edit: www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/stoke-city-manager-nathan-jones-3300394
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Post by tony1234 on Sept 9, 2019 18:08:35 GMT
Just wants more time. We haven't bloody got time Nath at this rate! "I don't want a ride in his helicopter". Something very John Sitton about that quote: Reminded me of "and you can bring your dinner".... A primevil plea from the untethered mind, expressed in the form of a random senseless metaphor.
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Post by gingerninja on Sept 9, 2019 18:26:26 GMT
I seem to remember a very similar interview from TP when he was on borrowed, almost begging the Coates family that he was still the man for the job!!
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Post by tony1234 on Sept 9, 2019 19:17:21 GMT
Five stages of grief. Stage 3 = Bargaining
Stage 1 = Denial... e.g. At the minute we are implement things without winning as many games as we should be or would like to be – but that will change (20/4). "We are only able to make a certain headway on the pitch in terms of results. But we have made masses off it and we think we have improved everyone, whether athletically, mentally or tactically" (27/5)
Stage 2 = Anger.... Now, the denial has become acceptance: "Last year the start here cost one manager his job. It might cost me mine,"..... Acceptance has become anger: "The players have to show responsibility as well... It seems when something goes against them they mentally go." (24/8 after Leeds)
Stage 3 = Bargaining.....
(Meanwhile, think we are all at about stage 58)
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Post by thestatusquo on Sept 9, 2019 19:25:25 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2019 19:39:33 GMT
Absolutely desperate for a win on Saturday. If we lose then the board are in a terrible situation (albeit one completely of their own making spanning seasons).
Every passing week and defeat is putting us more into the hands of the toxic one, and that would be devastating.
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Post by stokeykez on Sept 9, 2019 20:38:06 GMT
Absolutely desperate for a win on Saturday. If we lose then the board are in a terrible situation (albeit one completely of their own making spanning seasons). Every passing week and defeat is putting us more into the hands of the toxic one, and that would be devastating. God will need to help him on Saturday if we lose. Been in toxic atmospheres but I really do think that if we start to lose the crowd will be on his back and he'll be lucky to survive. The board will yet again be forced into a decision I feel if we get beat, feel a rowettesque kind if match coming.
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