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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Sept 16, 2019 15:09:35 GMT
I'm probably in a minority of one, but if I were the chairman, which thank the Lord I'm not, I'd still be sticking with Nathan Jones for a while longer. I still see glimpses of something. If he can get a break and turn it around, I have a feeling it could be as good as its been bad. There is nothing for Stoke City to fear from Brentford or anybody else in this league. Chris Hughton is a safe pair of hands for sure, but I'm not sure it's going to be much fun along the way. If we continue to give Nathan the chance to find his best blend it could be a hell of a ride. Just the start we wanted on Saturday, and then he is dealt another blow with Joe's sending off. One of these days we'll get the rub of the green, a much needed win and things will begin to turn around. Still time to hold our collective nerve for me. What glimpses of something do you see if you don't mind me asking? All I see is a team struggling painfully to score, and who's conceded two or more goals in 11 of our last 13 games. A goal difference of minus ten after seven games in this league is little short of a disgrace. Certainly don't mind you asking, and it is only "glimpses". I think it's the intention to play adventurous attacking football. I'm not saying it's working with any consistency obviously, but I genuinely believe that is what he wants to do. There were those two games, Charlton and Derby where they created a lot of chances. I still don't think we've seen our best team yet either. Certainly agree with your second statement. The stats are terrible. But would you not agree that part of Chris Hughton's appeal is that you know exactly what you are going to get? Organisation, a rigid defensive set-up and the hope that we get a goal then have what we hold. Personally, for me (and I know not you) that's worse than Tony Pulis. At least with a TP side there is some fire in the belly. I wouldn't be advocating either of those two right now. We've made this decision to have a radical change and take a chance. I would say let's absolutely exhaust all possibility of it succeeding before we ditch it. If you string a few results together in this league you can climb the table quickly. I'm not sure it's time to throw the baby out with the bathwater just yet.
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Post by skemstokie on Sept 16, 2019 15:15:08 GMT
What glimpses of something do you see if you don't mind me asking? All I see is a team struggling painfully to score, and who's conceded two or more goals in 11 of our last 13 games. A goal difference of minus ten after seven games in this league is little short of a disgrace. Certainly don't mind you asking, and it is only "glimpses". I think it's the intention to play adventurous attacking football. I'm not saying it's working with any consistency obviously, but I genuinely believe that is what he wants to do. There were those two games, Charlton and Derby where they created a lot of chances. I still don't think we've seen our best team yet either. Certainly agree with your second statement. The stats are terrible. But would you not agree that part of Chris Hughton's appeal is that you know exactly what you are going to get? Organisation, a rigid defensive set-up and the hope that we get a goal then have what we hold. Personally, for me (and I know not you) that's worse than Tony Pulis. At least with a TP side there is some fire in the belly. I wouldn't be advocating either of those two right now. We've made this decision to have a radical change and take a chance. I would say let's absolutely exhaust all possibility of it succeeding before we ditch it. If you string a few results together in this league you can climb the table quickly. I'm not sure it's time to throw the baby out with the bathwater just yet. I agree with you but i fail to understand why Campbell gets so little time he has the pace we lack i am aware he may not have the stamina for 90 minutes but he never will have with short cameos.
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Post by toppercorner on Sept 16, 2019 15:15:21 GMT
I'd have Hughton in a heartbeat.
I do feel Stoke did the right thing by getting Jones in, instead of the usual old names, but it has been a disaster so far, and he has contradicted everything he said that made him so appealing.
I think Jones will come good again, just the shit how we are in as a club is probably too much for most managers to handle, let alone up and coming ones.
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Post by lordb on Sept 16, 2019 15:17:55 GMT
What glimpses of something do you see if you don't mind me asking? All I see is a team struggling painfully to score, and who's conceded two or more goals in 11 of our last 13 games. A goal difference of minus ten after seven games in this league is little short of a disgrace. Certainly don't mind you asking, and it is only "glimpses". I think it's the intention to play adventurous attacking football. I'm not saying it's working with any consistency obviously, but I genuinely believe that is what he wants to do. There were those two games, Charlton and Derby where they created a lot of chances. I still don't think we've seen our best team yet either. Certainly agree with your second statement. The stats are terrible. But would you not agree that part of Chris Hughton's appeal is that you know exactly what you are going to get? Organisation, a rigid defensive set-up and the hope that we get a goal then have what we hold. Personally, for me (and I know not you) that's worse than Tony Pulis. At least with a TP side there is some fire in the belly. I wouldn't be advocating either of those two right now. We've made this decision to have a radical change and take a chance. I would say let's absolutely exhaust all possibility of it succeeding before we ditch it. If you string a few results together in this league you can climb the table quickly. I'm not sure it's time to throw the baby out with the bathwater just yet. Hughton has been known to set up very defensively however when get got sides promoted they have been good to watch. Really really want to agree with you about Jones but finding it very difficult. One up top simply doesn't work with these players for me Whoever is in charge, Jones, Hughton,Pulis,Jesus of Nazareth...will find it very difficult to stop players giving stupid goals away. It's an epidemic throughout.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Sept 16, 2019 15:19:13 GMT
Just had a look at the Mirror. It's quite a big, full page piece by John Cross and John Wragg. ----- HUGHTON'S READY TO STOKE CLAIMDesperate Potters Preparing to Sack Jones
Nathan Jones admits he's running out of time - and Chris Hughton will be targeted if they make a change. Jones has pleaded for more time - but Hughton is at the top of Stoke's wish list to take over. It'll be a fight for survival this season for Stoke - but they still have Premier League players - and wages - and they are desperate to go back up in the long-term. Hughton wants to get back into management with the right job, having turned down Sheff Weds - and Stoke are keeping close tabs.
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Post by stokeykez on Sept 16, 2019 15:21:48 GMT
Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to see a proven manager like Hughton. I just don’t see him coming. One of the biggest concerns I also have is the perception of a team with five managers in less than two years. After Hughes, each manager was less experienced than the previous one and I’m afraid that if Jones is sacked without identifying a replacement it will be history repeating itself. Watford get through managers like socks. Not done their rep or status any harm Weren't leeds the same
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Post by Davef on Sept 16, 2019 15:22:07 GMT
What glimpses of something do you see if you don't mind me asking? All I see is a team struggling painfully to score, and who's conceded two or more goals in 11 of our last 13 games. A goal difference of minus ten after seven games in this league is little short of a disgrace. Certainly don't mind you asking, and it is only "glimpses". I think it's the intention to play adventurous attacking football. I'm not saying it's working with any consistency obviously, but I genuinely believe that is what he wants to do. There were those two games, Charlton and Derby where they created a lot of chances. I still don't think we've seen our best team yet either. Certainly agree with your second statement. The stats are terrible. But would you not agree that part of Chris Hughton's appeal is that you know exactly what you are going to get? Organisation, a rigid defensive set-up and the hope that we get a goal then have what we hold. Personally, for me (and I know not you) that's worse than Tony Pulis. At least with a TP side there is some fire in the belly. I wouldn't be advocating either of those two right now. We've made this decision to have a radical change and take a chance. I would say let's absolutely exhaust all possibility of it succeeding before we ditch it. If you string a few results together in this league you can climb the table quickly. I'm not sure it's time to throw the baby out with the bathwater just yet. At this level, Hughton's record is very favourable and doesn't suggest he's negative at all. 102 points (90 goals) to win promotion with Newcastle, 93 (74 goals) to win promotion with Brighton and 76 (78 goals) to reach the play offs with Birmingham (we won promotion in 2008 with 79 points and 69 goals!). I'm not sure you can accuse his teams of not having fire in the belly based on those stats to be honest. Obviously he'd be walking into a completely different set of circumstances at Stoke right now, and his (and any manager's) first priority would be to shore up the defence.
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Post by FullerMagic on Sept 16, 2019 15:22:48 GMT
09/10 Newcastle 1st in Championship 102 pts 10/11 Sacked in December with them in 12th in Prem
11/12 Birmingham 4th in Championship (lost in play-offs)
12/13 Norwich 11th in Prem 13/14 Sacked after 33 games with Norwich in 17th in Prem
14/15 Brighton Kept them in Championship, in 20th, after taking over with them one place above the relegation zone in December after a run of 1 win in 18 15/16 3rd in Championship 89 points (lost in play-offs) 16/17 2nd in Championship 93 points 17/18 15th in Prem 18/19 17th in Prem
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Post by stokeykez on Sept 16, 2019 15:24:11 GMT
I'm probably in a minority of one, but if I were the chairman, which thank the Lord I'm not, I'd still be sticking with Nathan Jones for a while longer. I still see glimpses of something. If he can get a break and turn it around, I have a feeling it could be as good as its been bad. There is nothing for Stoke City to fear from Brentford or anybody else in this league. Chris Hughton is a safe pair of hands for sure, but I'm not sure it's going to be much fun along the way. If we continue to give Nathan the chance to find his best blend it could be a hell of a ride. Just the start we wanted on Saturday, and then he is dealt another blow with Joe's sending off. One of these days we'll get the rub of the green, a much needed win and things will begin to turn around. Still time to hold our collective nerve for me. I’m the complete opposite mate. I’d sack Jones this instant and have Hughton in before Jones got back to Wales. I’d take a safe pair of hands in a flash right now. As much as I supported NJ I'm with you robrigo, the difference being hughton is tried and tested at this level and far more experienced on what is needed to get us out of this mess.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Sept 16, 2019 15:24:38 GMT
Certainly don't mind you asking, and it is only "glimpses". I think it's the intention to play adventurous attacking football. I'm not saying it's working with any consistency obviously, but I genuinely believe that is what he wants to do. There were those two games, Charlton and Derby where they created a lot of chances. I still don't think we've seen our best team yet either. Certainly agree with your second statement. The stats are terrible. But would you not agree that part of Chris Hughton's appeal is that you know exactly what you are going to get? Organisation, a rigid defensive set-up and the hope that we get a goal then have what we hold. Personally, for me (and I know not you) that's worse than Tony Pulis. At least with a TP side there is some fire in the belly. I wouldn't be advocating either of those two right now. We've made this decision to have a radical change and take a chance. I would say let's absolutely exhaust all possibility of it succeeding before we ditch it. If you string a few results together in this league you can climb the table quickly. I'm not sure it's time to throw the baby out with the bathwater just yet. I agree with you but i fail to understand why Campbell gets so little time he has the pace we lack i am aware he may not have the stamina for 90 minutes but he never will have with short cameos. I see that criticism too, and one of the most frustrating aspects at the moment is the chopping and changing. Personally, I wonder if this is his biggest challenge at Stoke. It sounds crazy sitting bottom of the league, but in the Championship he has almost an embarrassment of riches. Managing a big squad is maybe a new challenge for him. He's going to upset a few people but he's got to stick with a "first team" in my opinion, then bring his replacements in way more gradually. We can't keep making 5 and 6 changes each game. All the positions still seem to be up for grabs. There's only really Sam Clucas who seems to be delivering consistently.
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Post by stokeykez on Sept 16, 2019 15:26:08 GMT
Just had a look at the Mirror. It's quite a big, full page piece by John Cross and John Wragg. ----- HUGHTON'S READY TO STOKE CLAIMDesperate Potters Preparing to Sack Jones
Nathan Jones admits he's running out of time - and Chris Hughton will be targeted if they make a change. Jones has pleaded for more time - but Hughton is at the top of Stoke's wish list to take over. It'll be a fight for survival this season for Stoke - but they still have Premier League players - and wages - and they are desperate to go back up in the long-term. Hughton wants to get back into management with the right job, having turned down Sheff Weds - and Stoke are keeping close tabs. Surprised alan nixon hasnt pushed this agenda more, mind you still sobbing over his Bolton isnt he
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Post by MilanStokie on Sept 16, 2019 15:27:34 GMT
There is probably only 1 reason right this moment why we shouldn't get Chris Hughton in right this second.
And that is simply the unthinkable amount of dolts who are going to be calling him Chris Houghton.
NOT LOOKING FORWARD
Jokes, get him in now.
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Post by Davef on Sept 16, 2019 15:29:04 GMT
09/10 Newcastle 1st in Championship 102 pts 10/11 Sacked in December with them in 12th in Prem 11/12 Birmingham 4th in Championship (lost in play-offs) 12/13 Norwich 11th in Prem 13/14 Sacked after 33 games with Norwich in 17th in Prem 14/15 Brighton Kept them in Championship, in 20th, after taking over with them one place above the relegation zone in December after a run of 1 win in 18 15/16 3rd in Championship 89 points (lost in play-offs) 16/17 2nd in Championship 93 points 17/18 15th in Prem 18/19 17th in Prem Never been relegated then?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2019 15:30:36 GMT
09/10 Newcastle 1st in Championship 102 pts 10/11 Sacked in December with them in 12th in Prem 11/12 Birmingham 4th in Championship (lost in play-offs) 12/13 Norwich 11th in Prem 13/14 Sacked after 33 games with Norwich in 17th in Prem 14/15 Brighton Kept them in Championship, in 20th, after taking over with them one place above the relegation zone in December after a run of 1 win in 18 15/16 3rd in Championship 89 points (lost in play-offs) 16/17 2nd in Championship 93 points 17/18 15th in Prem 18/19 17th in Prem He doesn't seem to have had an easy ride of it when you look at like it that. Why did people keep sacking him he's not done a bad job anywhere looking at that?
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Post by stokeykez on Sept 16, 2019 15:30:52 GMT
There is probably only 1 reason right this moment why we shouldn't get Chris Hughton in right this second. And that is simply the unthinkable amount of dolts who are going to be calling him Chris Houghton. NOT LOOKING FORWARD Jokes, get him in now. With scholes in charge hes probably still looking at getting ray Houghton in
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Post by Davef on Sept 16, 2019 15:35:19 GMT
09/10 Newcastle 1st in Championship 102 pts 10/11 Sacked in December with them in 12th in Prem 11/12 Birmingham 4th in Championship (lost in play-offs) 12/13 Norwich 11th in Prem 13/14 Sacked after 33 games with Norwich in 17th in Prem 14/15 Brighton Kept them in Championship, in 20th, after taking over with them one place above the relegation zone in December after a run of 1 win in 18 15/16 3rd in Championship 89 points (lost in play-offs) 16/17 2nd in Championship 93 points 17/18 15th in Prem 18/19 17th in Prem He doesn't seem to have had an easy ride of it when you look at like it that. Why did people keep sacking him he's not done a bad job anywhere looking at that? Well two clubs have sacked him with their clubs being a place above the relegation zone and the other one was Newcastle United.
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Post by stokie1954 on Sept 16, 2019 15:36:28 GMT
Standard out of work manager talk. He's got next to no chance of landing a Premier League job. Agreed. Decent bloke but really very average and a couple of sackings to boot.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Sept 16, 2019 15:37:02 GMT
Certainly don't mind you asking, and it is only "glimpses". I think it's the intention to play adventurous attacking football. I'm not saying it's working with any consistency obviously, but I genuinely believe that is what he wants to do. There were those two games, Charlton and Derby where they created a lot of chances. I still don't think we've seen our best team yet either. Certainly agree with your second statement. The stats are terrible. But would you not agree that part of Chris Hughton's appeal is that you know exactly what you are going to get? Organisation, a rigid defensive set-up and the hope that we get a goal then have what we hold. Personally, for me (and I know not you) that's worse than Tony Pulis. At least with a TP side there is some fire in the belly. I wouldn't be advocating either of those two right now. We've made this decision to have a radical change and take a chance. I would say let's absolutely exhaust all possibility of it succeeding before we ditch it. If you string a few results together in this league you can climb the table quickly. I'm not sure it's time to throw the baby out with the bathwater just yet. Hughton has been known to set up very defensively however when get got sides promoted they have been good to watch. Really really want to agree with you about Jones but finding it very difficult. One up top simply doesn't work with these players for me Whoever is in charge, Jones, Hughton,Pulis,Jesus of Nazareth...will find it very difficult to stop players giving stupid goals away. It's an epidemic throughout. There are so many posters whose opinions I respect making reasoned and objective cases for change. And of course I get it. I'm probably wrong. That's my track record! I actually think Hughton is underated - I take the point about getting teams promoted, and it's true that ultra pragmatism gives promoted teams in the Prem a decent chance of survival. He's almost a victim of his own effectiveness and ambitious chairmen wanting more. But I wanted a Nuno Espirito Santo, a Farke or even a Dean Smith or Billy Wilder. I thought Nathan might break the mould of promotion and consolidation. I thought he might have a real go, almost Kevin Keegan style. Give us a bit of style and swagger. I saw those 7-0 results at Luton, them out scoring Manchester City and wanted that for us. If there is the slightest chance, the most remote possibility from this point that he could recreate that, I would still be prepared to take that chance at this time. I am certain that we won't be relegated. The board will have to replace him if this losing streak continues, whether it's down to bad luck, bad management or poor play. So I'm taking the view that right now, we haven't got that much to lose, but potentially, a hell of a lot to gain.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 16, 2019 15:45:21 GMT
There's still part of me that irrationally thinks it might all click with Jones somehow and we'll regret it if we pull the trigger.
That feeling gets smaller by the week though and it really isn't supported by anything tangible he's done since coming to the club...
I think it's based on us playing some tidy stuff and actually creating some chances, and the prospect of just jacking it all in for a greyer than grey pragmatist and playing for a set piece here and there just chokes my soul a bit.
Needs must though I guess. We can't keep losing every week.
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Post by mamasgloves on Sept 16, 2019 15:45:48 GMT
Safety first policy? Didn't he go up from this league with 100 points in the not too distant past? 102 points when he took Newcastle up and 93 when he took Brighton up. If that's "safety first" where do I sign?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2019 15:46:47 GMT
He doesn't seem to have had an easy ride of it when you look at like it that. Why did people keep sacking him he's not done a bad job anywhere looking at that? Well two clubs have sacked him with their clubs being a place above the relegation zone and the other one was Newcastle United. I suppose being a place above the relegation zone doesn't look too bad from where we are sitting now...oh how far we have fallen!
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Post by clarkeda on Sept 16, 2019 15:48:56 GMT
There's still part of me that irrationally thinks it might all click with Jones somehow and we'll regret it if we pull the trigger. That feeling gets smaller by the week though and it really isn't supported by anything tangible he's done since coming to the club... I think it's based on us playing some tidy stuff and actually creating some chances, and the prospect of just jacking it all in for a greyer than grey pragmatist and playing for a set piece here and there just chokes my soul a bit. Needs must though I guess. We can't keep losing every week. This kinda sums my feelings up. I wouldn’t be disappointed with hughton thiugh
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Post by jwhpotter on Sept 16, 2019 15:50:04 GMT
There's still part of me that irrationally thinks it might all click with Jones somehow and we'll regret it if we pull the trigger. That feeling gets smaller by the week though and it really isn't supported by anything tangible he's done since coming to the club... I think it's based on us playing some tidy stuff and actually creating some chances, and the prospect of just jacking it all in for a greyer than grey pragmatist and playing for a set piece here and there just chokes my soul a bit. Needs must though I guess. We can't keep losing every week. I’d say this was a decent summary of how most fans feel. Before we know it the situation will be too dire to get out of so we must act
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Post by stantheman on Sept 16, 2019 15:51:31 GMT
What is the record for one club still paying previous ex managers all at the same time?
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Post by trickydicky73 on Sept 16, 2019 15:51:50 GMT
Certainly don't mind you asking, and it is only "glimpses". I think it's the intention to play adventurous attacking football. I'm not saying it's working with any consistency obviously, but I genuinely believe that is what he wants to do. There were those two games, Charlton and Derby where they created a lot of chances. I still don't think we've seen our best team yet either. Certainly agree with your second statement. The stats are terrible. But would you not agree that part of Chris Hughton's appeal is that you know exactly what you are going to get? Organisation, a rigid defensive set-up and the hope that we get a goal then have what we hold. Personally, for me (and I know not you) that's worse than Tony Pulis. At least with a TP side there is some fire in the belly. I wouldn't be advocating either of those two right now. We've made this decision to have a radical change and take a chance. I would say let's absolutely exhaust all possibility of it succeeding before we ditch it. If you string a few results together in this league you can climb the table quickly. I'm not sure it's time to throw the baby out with the bathwater just yet. I agree with you but i fail to understand why Campbell gets so little time he has the pace we lack i am aware he may not have the stamina for 90 minutes but he never will have with short cameos. Also gives us an out ball, relieves pressure and puts teams on the back foot. He should play much more, I agree.
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Post by mamasgloves on Sept 16, 2019 15:51:54 GMT
There's still part of me that irrationally thinks it might all click with Jones somehow and we'll regret it if we pull the trigger. That feeling gets smaller by the week though and it really isn't supported by anything tangible he's done since coming to the club... I think it's based on us playing some tidy stuff and actually creating some chances, and the prospect of just jacking it all in for a greyer than grey pragmatist and playing for a set piece here and there just chokes my soul a bit. Needs must though I guess. We can't keep losing every week. I'd much rather the greyer than grey pragmatist with two promotions out of this league than the inexperienced batshit evangelist currently overseeing one of the worst runs in our history
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Post by FullerMagic on Sept 16, 2019 15:52:22 GMT
There's still part of me that irrationally thinks it might all click with Jones somehow and we'll regret it if we pull the trigger. That feeling gets smaller by the week though and it really isn't supported by anything tangible he's done since coming to the club... I think it's based on us playing some tidy stuff and actually creating some chances, and the prospect of just jacking it all in for a greyer than grey pragmatist and playing for a set piece here and there just chokes my soul a bit. Needs must though I guess. We can't keep losing every week. Exactly where I am, Rob. Heart says stick with Jones Head says we need to make a change as soon as possible - and since Birmingham I've reluctantly accepted we need to pull the plug.
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Sept 16, 2019 15:52:28 GMT
Watford get through managers like socks. Not done their rep or status any harm Weren't leeds the same Leeds will always have the benefit of their name and stature though, similar to Newcastle. No way Bielsa and Benitez manage in the 2nd tier unless they're at a club/city of that size with large fanbases. Especially Bielsa. I think the way Watford sack managers is also different to ourselves too, most managers will look at Watford as a very attractive proposition. I'm not sure you could say the same about us at the moment.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Sept 16, 2019 15:55:01 GMT
There's still part of me that irrationally thinks it might all click with Jones somehow and we'll regret it if we pull the trigger. That feeling gets smaller by the week though and it really isn't supported by anything tangible he's done since coming to the club... I think it's based on us playing some tidy stuff and actually creating some chances, and the prospect of just jacking it all in for a greyer than grey pragmatist and playing for a set piece here and there just chokes my soul a bit. Needs must though I guess. We can't keep losing every week. That's exactly where I am. Probably deluding myself, but when you see a team have about 20 odd goal attempts in a couple of games, you think shall we stick with this a bit and just see? The league is pretty average and if he can just find the balance there really isn't anybody to fear.
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Post by mamasgloves on Sept 16, 2019 15:59:28 GMT
There's still part of me that irrationally thinks it might all click with Jones somehow and we'll regret it if we pull the trigger. That feeling gets smaller by the week though and it really isn't supported by anything tangible he's done since coming to the club... I think it's based on us playing some tidy stuff and actually creating some chances, and the prospect of just jacking it all in for a greyer than grey pragmatist and playing for a set piece here and there just chokes my soul a bit. Needs must though I guess. We can't keep losing every week. That's exactly where I am. Probably deluding myself, but when you see a team have about 20 odd goal attempts in a couple of games, you think shall we stick with this a bit and just see? The league is pretty average and if he can just find the balance there really isn't anybody to fear. I'm sure I read somewhere that he said we were top of the league for shots on target but in fact we're near the bottom
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