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Post by trickydicky73 on Oct 11, 2019 1:13:08 GMT
If he doesn't get 3 wins out of 5 games he should be gone. He is lucky not to be gone as it is.
Prove Swansea wasn't a blip, Nathan.
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Post by davethebass on Oct 11, 2019 1:42:51 GMT
What is wrong with particle physics and quantum physics? I don't know that there's anything wrong with them, mainly because I don't understand them. I was simply using it as an example to show how off the wall conversations can become, they making an appearance in a thread about gypsy curses. I'm assuming Romany folk lore doesn't have any connection with these branches of physics? Although quantum physics isn't included in Romany folklore per se, it does have a bearing on such questions as whether curses are possible, due to the philosophical questions raised by it's weird implications
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Post by davethebass on Oct 11, 2019 1:57:04 GMT
Nothing at all. It is Pulis Physics, which you introduce that becomes problematic.
Fair play, mate. You’ve rumbled me there. No Nobel Prizes for the physics of 4-4-1-1. I dunno March, you could compare the cage to the magnetic containment of high energy plasmas, utilising the Lorentz force, for instance...
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Oct 11, 2019 8:16:27 GMT
That’s not a fact. That’s an Idiom. Stoke aren’t ‘propping up’ the league. To ‘prop up’ means to support or to help. Stoke are bottom of the Championship table. That’s a fact. The fact is you knew what I meant. Pedant. You say the nicest things.
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Post by Edward Tattsyrup on Oct 11, 2019 8:21:28 GMT
If he doesn't get 3 wins out of 5 games he should be gone. He is lucky not to be gone as it is. Prove Swansea wasn't a blip, Nathan. Can't argue with that. The problem maybe that if we loose the other two, three wins may just see us treading water.
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Post by gingerninja on Oct 11, 2019 8:50:35 GMT
I can never understand why fans were calling for a board statement once we had beaten Swansea. They were in a lose, lose situation..I would imagine, or hope he is one or two poor results from the sack so any endorsement would have been pure folly. Once we defeated Swansea with such a good performance they were never going to sack him, but you can bet alternatives have been lined up(or you would hope).
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Post by future100 on Oct 11, 2019 9:11:11 GMT
I can never understand why fans were calling for a board statement once we had beaten Swansea. They were in a lose, lose situation..I would imagine, or hope he is one or two poor results from the sack so any endorsement would have been pure folly. Once we defeated Swansea with such a good performance they were never going to sack him, but you can bet alternatives have been lined up(or you would hope). Commonsense post, he really does need to win the next two at least to prove he has found the formulae he promised we would be witnessing when he first came, if not "thanks and all the best in your next job".
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Post by thevoid on Oct 11, 2019 9:11:40 GMT
I can never understand why fans were calling for a board statement once we had beaten Swansea. They were in a lose, lose situation..I would imagine, or hope he is one or two poor results from the sack so any endorsement would have been pure folly. Once we defeated Swansea with such a good performance they were never going to sack him, but you can bet alternatives have been lined up(or you would hope). The snag there being that three other clubs are now after managers. Perhaps Sunderland will come in for Nath and we can get compensation? 😉
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Post by mrcoke on Oct 11, 2019 9:19:19 GMT
Thanks for that. Wilder had a very difficult start at Sheffield United; look where they are now. You cannot compare Wilder's start at United to Stoke's. Yes they only got 1 point from the first 4 games, but after that started winning every game in sight. So he stalled for 4 games compared to Jones' 30!!!....hardly comparable! The other reason you can't compare these 2 is that Wilder was a hugely popular appointment at United being a well known fanatical Blades fan and ex player, familiar to people in the area and very highly respected here even before he got the job. I work in Sheffield and Wilder could have probably lost the first 10 games and still been given full support. His record at United is phenomenal. I hear where you are coming from, but for me Jones record last season counts for nothing. He inherited a very mixed up squad with idiots like Berahino. He tried numerous things last season: getting rid of older players (Crouch, Martina, Adam, Pieters (a mistake IMO)), he tried his diamond - didn't work, tried players in different positions - didn't work, tried different systems, gave all the players a chance to show what they could do (not enough for Bojan IMO), gave young players their chance (notably Edwards). All these decisions cost us points but he was thoroughly examining all the options and deciding who to keep, who to loan, who to sell (still trying!). Everything he did was geared to this season not trying to win matches last season. This season is a different story. He has still got unwanted players and has clearly not been allowed to spend big like Rowett and had to pick up players where he can. The players have let him down badly with terrible finishing, stupid defensive errors, and no one capable of performing at the base of the diamond till Badou came into the side, a player Jones said he wanted to keep, but loads on Oatcake said should never play for the club again. It can be a slow process turning things around, depending on circumstances, Wilder did brilliantly at SheffUtd, but it took Norwich and Wolves' managers 2 years to turn things round. I think Jones needs a couple more transfer windows before he has got things sorted; there are still some players to remove from the squad, he needs to get the wage bill down further before signing some quality players. Any seasoned manager like Hughton would take one look at our very large expensive mixed bag of a squad and say no thanks.
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Post by geoff321 on Oct 11, 2019 9:39:56 GMT
You cannot compare Wilder's start at United to Stoke's. Yes they only got 1 point from the first 4 games, but after that started winning every game in sight. So he stalled for 4 games compared to Jones' 30!!!....hardly comparable! The other reason you can't compare these 2 is that Wilder was a hugely popular appointment at United being a well known fanatical Blades fan and ex player, familiar to people in the area and very highly respected here even before he got the job. I work in Sheffield and Wilder could have probably lost the first 10 games and still been given full support. His record at United is phenomenal. I hear where you are coming from, but for me Jones record last season counts for nothing. He inherited a very mixed up squad with idiots like Berahino. He tried numerous things last season: getting rid of older players (Crouch, Martina, Adam, Pieters (a mistake IMO)), he tried his diamond - didn't work, tried players in different positions - didn't work, tried different systems, gave all the players a chance to show what they could do (not enough for Bojan IMO), gave young players their chance (notably Edwards). All these decisions cost us points but he was thoroughly examining all the options and deciding who to keep, who to loan, who to sell (still trying!). Everything he did was geared to this season not trying to win matches last season. This season is a different story. He has still got unwanted players and has clearly not been allowed to spend big like Rowett and had to pick up players where he can. The players have let him down badly with terrible finishing, stupid defensive errors, and no one capable of performing at the base of the diamond till Badou came into the side, a player Jones said he wanted to keep, but loads on Oatcake said should never play for the club again. It can be a slow process turning things around, depending on circumstances, Wilder did brilliantly at SheffUtd, but it took Norwich and Wolves' managers 2 years to turn things round. I think Jones needs a couple more transfer windows before he has got things sorted; there are still some players to remove from the squad, he needs to get the wage bill down further before signing some quality players. Any seasoned manager like Hughton would take one look at our very large expensive mixed bag of a squad and say no thanks. Regarding your first sentence, Nathan Jones did better last season than this season, how do you explain that?
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Post by lordb on Oct 11, 2019 9:44:29 GMT
You cannot compare Wilder's start at United to Stoke's. Yes they only got 1 point from the first 4 games, but after that started winning every game in sight. So he stalled for 4 games compared to Jones' 30!!!....hardly comparable! The other reason you can't compare these 2 is that Wilder was a hugely popular appointment at United being a well known fanatical Blades fan and ex player, familiar to people in the area and very highly respected here even before he got the job. I work in Sheffield and Wilder could have probably lost the first 10 games and still been given full support. His record at United is phenomenal. I hear where you are coming from, but for me Jones record last season counts for nothing. He inherited a very mixed up squad with idiots like Berahino. He tried numerous things last season: getting rid of older players (Crouch, Martina, Adam, Pieters (a mistake IMO)), he tried his diamond - didn't work, tried players in different positions - didn't work, tried different systems, gave all the players a chance to show what they could do (not enough for Bojan IMO), gave young players their chance (notably Edwards). All these decisions cost us points but he was thoroughly examining all the options and deciding who to keep, who to loan, who to sell (still trying!). Everything he did was geared to this season not trying to win matches last season. This season is a different story. He has still got unwanted players and has clearly not been allowed to spend big like Rowett and had to pick up players where he can. The players have let him down badly with terrible finishing, stupid defensive errors, and no one capable of performing at the base of the diamond till Badou came into the side, a player Jones said he wanted to keep, but loads on Oatcake said should never play for the club again. It can be a slow process turning things around, depending on circumstances, Wilder did brilliantly at SheffUtd, but it took Norwich and Wolves' managers 2 years to turn things round. I think Jones needs a couple more transfer windows before he has got things sorted; there are still some players to remove from the squad, he needs to get the wage bill down further before signing some quality players. Any seasoned manager like Hughton would take one look at our very large expensive mixed bag of a squad and say no thanks. Good points None the less the record this season is very poor with a fair few horrific performances to boot. Swansea win was also an excellent performance with great character. I don't think he has to win three or four on the bounce from here but we do need no horror shows for quite some time and good results By November internationals would look to be out of bottom three with more wins. By Xmas top half. All in the balance,might be games we don't win through bad referree or because the opposition are very good but can't afford poor showings.
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Post by gingerninja on Oct 11, 2019 10:15:40 GMT
Do we think he will have been given a certain number of games?. I seem to remember he was asked that in an interview recently and obviously had but quite rightly declined to say.. the next 5 games are obviously pivotal and some really tough ones. Would imagine he would need about 8 points from them?.
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Post by robrigo on Oct 11, 2019 10:31:24 GMT
They should have sacked him five games ago. By procrastinating the club has found itself operating by a game by game scenario. If we’ve turned a corner, then great.
If it’s another false dawn then we lose precious time. We’ll find out in the coming weeks.
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Post by gingerninja on Oct 11, 2019 10:41:10 GMT
Nice summary Robrigo, I think your spot on, unless they've got Micheal O'Neill lined up for after their next qualifier😉
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Post by potterpaul on Oct 11, 2019 11:20:48 GMT
You cannot compare Wilder's start at United to Stoke's. Yes they only got 1 point from the first 4 games, but after that started winning every game in sight. So he stalled for 4 games compared to Jones' 30!!!....hardly comparable! The other reason you can't compare these 2 is that Wilder was a hugely popular appointment at United being a well known fanatical Blades fan and ex player, familiar to people in the area and very highly respected here even before he got the job. I work in Sheffield and Wilder could have probably lost the first 10 games and still been given full support. His record at United is phenomenal. I hear where you are coming from, but for me Jones record last season counts for nothing. He inherited a very mixed up squad with idiots like Berahino. He tried numerous things last season: getting rid of older players (Crouch, Martina, Adam, Pieters (a mistake IMO)), he tried his diamond - didn't work, tried players in different positions - didn't work, tried different systems, gave all the players a chance to show what they could do (not enough for Bojan IMO), gave young players their chance (notably Edwards). All these decisions cost us points but he was thoroughly examining all the options and deciding who to keep, who to loan, who to sell (still trying!). Everything he did was geared to this season not trying to win matches last season. This season is a different story. He has still got unwanted players and has clearly not been allowed to spend big like Rowett and had to pick up players where he can. The players have let him down badly with terrible finishing, stupid defensive errors, and no one capable of performing at the base of the diamond till Badou came into the side, a player Jones said he wanted to keep, but loads on Oatcake said should never play for the club again. It can be a slow process turning things around, depending on circumstances, Wilder did brilliantly at SheffUtd, but it took Norwich and Wolves' managers 2 years to turn things round. I think Jones needs a couple more transfer windows before he has got things sorted; there are still some players to remove from the squad, he needs to get the wage bill down further before signing some quality players. Any seasoned manager like Hughton would take one look at our very large expensive mixed bag of a squad and say no thanks. How on earth can you say last season counts for nothing? Everything you mention he did last season he as repeated this season Tried Diamond - didn't work Tried players in different positions- hasn't worked Gave players chances - chopping and changing every bleeding match Played youngsters (given chance) in league cup matches repeating his flirting with youth we saw last season. Apart from 2 or 3 new comers here and there, the starting XI consists of players available and playing when he arrived. Counts for nothing my arse, he just hasn't learned a damn thing
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Oct 11, 2019 11:21:27 GMT
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Post by mamasgloves on Oct 11, 2019 11:33:55 GMT
Hogan article says that Jones had already announced the squad when he piped up that he should be in it because he would score. Novel way to manage.
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Post by lordb on Oct 11, 2019 11:39:46 GMT
Hogan article says that Jones had already announced the squad when he piped up that he should be in it because he would score. Novel way to manage. is it? heard lots of stories along these sort of lines over the years
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Post by terrorofturfmoor on Oct 11, 2019 12:01:14 GMT
Both the win, and the performance at Swansea last week couldn't have come at the worst possible time!!!
With the Board being reluctant to bring the axe down on Nathan during the last international break, only for it to be followed up with 3 losses and a draw in the league, plus the horror show at Crawley in the cup, "NOW" (with another international break) was the time to put Nathan and us fans out of our misery!!!
However, the team (for the first time this season) picked their heads up after going a goal down (especially with it being so early in the game) , instead of letting them drop, and dug in doggedly.....but in doing so, they finally showed us what they ARE capable of, and raised the bar!!!
Any going back to the Stoke we've become accustomed to this season, may come crashing down on Jones even harder now, and have even WORSE repercussions for the Board for not acting in time!!
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Post by ChesterStokie on Oct 11, 2019 12:03:55 GMT
Wow! A couple of paragraphs in there from Pejic that were actually mildly interesting (the 2 near the end about the characters in the 70s team). Nothing to see in the rest of it, as usual.
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Oct 11, 2019 12:08:28 GMT
Wow! A couple of paragraphs in there from Pejic that were actually mildly interesting (the 2 near the end about the characters in the 70s team). Nothing to see in the rest of it, as usual. Not a fan of Pejic then😄
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Post by realstokebloke on Oct 11, 2019 12:23:24 GMT
Daft twat can't either spell, or use correctly, the word "fêted" either.
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Post by tony1234 on Oct 11, 2019 12:24:16 GMT
If he doesn't get 3 wins out of 5 games he should be gone. He is lucky not to be gone as it is. Prove Swansea wasn't a blip, Nathan. On taking over in Jan, he should have been told to coach the team we have = to show that he can improve a team and/or individuals - before the club handed out another sizeable transfer kitty in the summer. I still scratch my head at how he managed to convince so many people that definite backward steps over those games was an inevitable and important part of progress. Still, I guess, as those American evangilists show, when people want to believe in something, they will believe in anything.
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Post by tony1234 on Oct 11, 2019 12:30:20 GMT
Wow! A couple of paragraphs in there from Pejic that were actually mildly interesting (the 2 near the end about the characters in the 70s team). Nothing to see in the rest of it, as usual. The world changes. Am always highly sceptical of this idea of strong "characters" from a by-gone age. In those days, they drank, fought and womanised. Hardly the stuff of mental strength and application. Pressure was very different. Then you played in front of 30k balling hollering nutters. Today, its is a global 1b audience where your every move is scrutinised. I still think a team from today would generally beat a team from the past.
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Post by ChesterStokie on Oct 11, 2019 12:47:00 GMT
Wow! A couple of paragraphs in there from Pejic that were actually mildly interesting (the 2 near the end about the characters in the 70s team). Nothing to see in the rest of it, as usual. Not a fan of Pejic then😄 Oh he was a great footballer for Stoke City and I love him for that. And he might be a great bloke for all I know. I just don’t think he’s very interesting pundit!
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Post by mamasgloves on Oct 11, 2019 13:45:31 GMT
Hogan article says that Jones had already announced the squad when he piped up that he should be in it because he would score. Novel way to manage. is it? heard lots of stories along these sort of lines over the years Point I'm making is that someone else was who was then told otherwise because someone threw a hissy when he wasn't selected.
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Post by robwahlmann on Oct 11, 2019 17:03:59 GMT
I've been to Crete on holiday for a week and was really happy we finally won a game. It was of course the first game of the season I haven't watched live (our two first games) or live on TV (the rest)! Despite getting our first win I still want to see Jones gone. We also had good games last season where we thought we were on the right way, Leeds and Nottingham at home are two good examples of this, but as we all know these games weren't turning points at all! I want to see him replaced ASAP as I really can't see NJ being the future. I really hope the board haven't stopped looking for the right man despite of our win on Saturday.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Oct 11, 2019 17:21:12 GMT
I've been to Crete on holiday for a week and was really happy we finally won a game. It was of course the first game of the season I haven't watched live (our two first games) or live on TV (the rest)! Despite getting our first win I still want to see Jones gone. We also had good games last season where we thought we were on the right way, Leeds and Nottingham at home are two good examples of this, but as we all know these games weren't turning points at all! I want to see him replaced ASAP as I really can't see NJ being the future. I really hope the board haven't stopped looking for the right man despite of our win on Saturday. Quite superstitious me, can you please stay away/not watch for a few more games and see if we keep winning Desperate times and all that!
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Post by robwahlmann on Oct 11, 2019 17:22:56 GMT
I've been to Crete on holiday for a week and was really happy we finally won a game. It was of course the first game of the season I haven't watched live (our two first games) or live on TV (the rest)! Despite getting our first win I still want to see Jones gone. We also had good games last season where we thought we were on the right way, Leeds and Nottingham at home are two good examples of this, but as we all know these games weren't turning points at all! I want to see him replaced ASAP as I really can't see NJ being the future. I really hope the board haven't stopped looking for the right man despite of our win on Saturday. Quite superstitious me, can you please stay away/not watch for a few more games and see if we keep winning Desperate times and all that! I've actually considered that myself! Maybe I'm jinxed or something!
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Oct 11, 2019 17:24:15 GMT
Wow! A couple of paragraphs in there from Pejic that were actually mildly interesting (the 2 near the end about the characters in the 70s team). Nothing to see in the rest of it, as usual. The world changes. Am always highly sceptical of this idea of strong "characters" from a by-gone age. In those days, they drank, fought and womanised. Hardly the stuff of mental strength and application. Pressure was very different. Then you played in front of 30k balling hollering nutters. Today, its is a global 1b audience where your every move is scrutinised. I still think a team from today would generally beat a team from the past. I have no doubt a team of today would always beat a team from the past. Its just an unfair comparison what with advancement in training techniques and general fitness etc. Apples and pears.
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