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Post by terryconroysmagic on Aug 28, 2019 19:47:50 GMT
I think it’s become readily apparent that what Jones says to the media is about as believable as thinking Donald Trump loves Mexicans 🤣 Well Tez I can't say I disagree but I've been berated all afternoon on another thread for not believing what he says so I'm trying to be more diplomatic... 🤣 Haven’t seen that thread and I’m still in the Jones In camp but his media utterances have boarded on total bollocks, bewildering and inconsistent!
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Post by FullerMagic on Aug 28, 2019 19:48:39 GMT
Raiding my memory bank about what type of player he was and looking at how he was described, he doesn't sound much like a holding midfielder. www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/stoke-city-transfer-badou-ndiaye-1153840?123Lambert said: “He's more offensive I would say – but he will get up and down for you, so he will do his defensive duties as well. “I think he's very good at driving with the ball which is important for getting us up the pitch when we need to and he will get around about people, which is another important factor. www.reddit.com/r/StokeCityFC/comments/7ud6cb/you_guys_transferred_badou_ndiaye_so_pissed_at/He is unlike any player I have seen at Gala. He is very good at defending but also strong as an offensive player. Basically an all round hard working midfield player, you can't get him tired. He compared to N'Golo Kante by many supporters. I honestly believe he could play easily at chelsea or man utd. You guys won't able to keep him for long if he plays like he always does.www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/7tzwzc/stoke_have_agreed_a_fee_of_15m_with_galatasaray/This is my favourite active player. He is fucking awesome. Great attitude, physically gifted, good technique. A really nice guy too, the two times I met him and talked to him. Hope he will do well for Stoke.
Fast, strong, runs for days, great passer/dribbler, alright at defending- definitely worth the £15m
We'd have needed him in our battle for the title. Sad to see him leave, he's a proper beast, and pl will suit him well.
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Post by shrewspotter on Aug 28, 2019 19:51:08 GMT
With BMI and Badou back in the fold, the squad does look very large. Are we pencilling him in as a regular? thats right, we have 3 keepers 2 right backs 6 centre backs 1 left back 6 centre midfielders 5 wingers/ attacking midfielders 4 strikers Plus wimmer and imbuler plus u21 fringe players I tell you that’s too many to handle
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Post by rawli on Aug 28, 2019 19:51:10 GMT
Yep it’s very mixed messages, and given the poor form could be seen as an act of a desperate man, possibly unsure of the best route forward. If he had come back and immediately gone into the squad then it would make a bit more sense to me but we seem like we are a last resort? Maybe he will prove us wrong but if his heart isn't it and we're bringing back a player that doesn't want to be here then I'll be disapointed. Especially when we have a load of midfielders anyway and yes he can make the diamond work but in forcing everything to make that work means players who have come here with better intentions that would play in a different system are going to lose out. It all very much feels like a case of deja vu. We are his last resort. Hopefully he realises that to get away he's going to have to play his bollocks off. Not ideal but if he does it will suit both sides.
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Post by kustokie on Aug 28, 2019 19:53:30 GMT
We should assume that he's still in the bomb squad, although the alternative to that is that he is patiently waiting for a new chance or opportunity. For the few players at Stoke whose future remains undecided as far as we know, such as Wimmer and Imbula, it must be the equivalent of the fat boy who waits and is always picked last for a team amongst kids, or at school. Bauer has gone and Bojan and Berahino, but these guys are left on the beach. I don't think he was ever in the Jones version of the bomb squad, always seems at pains to say how good he is etc. Who exactly are the bomb squad. I genuinely don’t know.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2019 19:56:44 GMT
If he had come back and immediately gone into the squad then it would make a bit more sense to me but we seem like we are a last resort? Maybe he will prove us wrong but if his heart isn't it and we're bringing back a player that doesn't want to be here then I'll be disapointed. Especially when we have a load of midfielders anyway and yes he can make the diamond work but in forcing everything to make that work means players who have come here with better intentions that would play in a different system are going to lose out. It all very much feels like a case of deja vu. We are his last resort. Hopefully he realises that to get away he's going to have to play his bollocks off. Not ideal but if he does it will suit both sides. Thing is that you've just signed a lot of players who seem to want to here and quite a few of them won't play as the squad is oversized. And you're now bringing someone back who we know we are a last resort for them. I know people will say they are professional and paid need to suck it up and get on with things but it's hard sell and we seem to want to make life as difficult as possible!
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Post by FullerMagic on Aug 28, 2019 19:59:35 GMT
I don't think he was ever in the Jones version of the bomb squad, always seems at pains to say how good he is etc. Who exactly are the bomb squad. I genuinely don’t know. The ones who were exiled and have been training on their own away from the main group. www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/stoke-city-transfers-nathan-jones-3047531 Moritz Bauer, Geoff Cameron, Mame Diouf, Giannelli Imbula, Julien Ngoy, Erik Pieters, Josh Tymon and Kevin Wimmer (plus Bojan) So if the Imbula and Ngoy moves go ahead, that'll just leave Wimmer and Diouf. God knows what they'll be expected to do if they're still here next week.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2019 20:03:00 GMT
Well Tez I can't say I disagree but I've been berated all afternoon on another thread for not believing what he says so I'm trying to be more diplomatic... 🤣 Haven’t seen that thread and I’m still in the Jones In camp but his media utterances have boarded on total bollocks, bewildering and inconsistent! I don't think I've ever been so confused by a manager before. It things like this "there were a few things with Bruno. People came in for him and so on so we pulled him from the squad because we didn’t want to stand in his way if a big club came in" .... well it was the same situation with Jack and he didn't get banished? Why not wait until the big club came in and not base things off unwanted interest? Why say you want 2 for every position and buy a fourth if Bruno was ever in thinking? I don't want to sound like I'm accusing him of lying (and suffer more berating) but there's no consistency or logic there...so I'll go with it seems short sighted and not well thought out plan
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Post by baystokie on Aug 28, 2019 20:12:19 GMT
🤣 Haven’t seen that thread and I’m still in the Jones In camp but his media utterances have boarded on total bollocks, bewildering and inconsistent! I don't think I've ever been so confused by a manager before. It things like this "there were a few things with Bruno. People came in for him and so on so we pulled him from the squad because we didn’t want to stand in his way if a big club came in" .... well it was the same situation with Jack and he didn't get banished? Why not wait until the big club came in and not base things off unwanted interest? Why say you want 2 for every position and buy a fourth if Bruno was ever in thinking? I don't want to sound like I'm accusing him of lying (and suffer more berating) but there's no consistency or logic there...so I'll go with it seems short sighted and not well thought out plan Personally, as long as everything makes sense to the manager, I'm not going to waste my time trying to 'read the tea leaves' trying to get things to make sense to me - it may make an interesting exercise for those that want it but it's NJ's job that is on the line and he will go about it in his way, not mine!
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Post by jezzascfc on Aug 28, 2019 20:14:37 GMT
Who exactly are the bomb squad. I genuinely don’t know. The ones who were exiled and have been training on their own away from the main group. www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/stoke-city-transfers-nathan-jones-3047531 Moritz Bauer, Geoff Cameron, Mame Diouf, Giannelli Imbula, Julien Ngoy, Erik Pieters, Josh Tymon and Kevin Wimmer (plus Bojan) So if the Imbula and Ngoy moves go ahead, that'll just leave Wimmer and Diouf. God knows what they'll be expected to do if they're still here next week. Mow the pitches, clean the loos, man the ticket office?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2019 20:15:02 GMT
I don't think I've ever been so confused by a manager before. It things like this "there were a few things with Bruno. People came in for him and so on so we pulled him from the squad because we didn’t want to stand in his way if a big club came in" .... well it was the same situation with Jack and he didn't get banished? Why not wait until the big club came in and not base things off unwanted interest? Why say you want 2 for every position and buy a fourth if Bruno was ever in thinking? I don't want to sound like I'm accusing him of lying (and suffer more berating) but there's no consistency or logic there...so I'll go with it seems short sighted and not well thought out plan Personally, as long as everything makes sense to the manager, I'm not going to waste my time trying to 'read the tea leaves' trying to get things to make sense to me - it may make an interesting exercise for those that want it but it's NJ's job that is on the line and he will go about it in his way, not mine! Fair enough! I wouldn't say say it's "reading the tea leaves" I'd say it's trying to match the actions and words. It's not a fun exercise. I don't recommend it for someone that isn't hardwired to do it as some of us are...
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Post by jezzascfc on Aug 28, 2019 20:16:37 GMT
Raiding my memory bank about what type of player he was and looking at how he was described, he doesn't sound much like a holding midfielder. www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/stoke-city-transfer-badou-ndiaye-1153840?123Lambert said: “He's more offensive I would say – but he will get up and down for you, so he will do his defensive duties as well. “I think he's very good at driving with the ball which is important for getting us up the pitch when we need to and he will get around about people, which is another important factor. www.reddit.com/r/StokeCityFC/comments/7ud6cb/you_guys_transferred_badou_ndiaye_so_pissed_at/He is unlike any player I have seen at Gala. He is very good at defending but also strong as an offensive player. Basically an all round hard working midfield player, you can't get him tired. He compared to N'Golo Kante by many supporters. I honestly believe he could play easily at chelsea or man utd. You guys won't able to keep him for long if he plays like he always does.www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/7tzwzc/stoke_have_agreed_a_fee_of_15m_with_galatasaray/This is my favourite active player. He is fucking awesome. Great attitude, physically gifted, good technique. A really nice guy too, the two times I met him and talked to him. Hope he will do well for Stoke.
Fast, strong, runs for days, great passer/dribbler, alright at defending- definitely worth the £15m
We'd have needed him in our battle for the title. Sad to see him leave, he's a proper beast, and pl will suit him well.
Good stuff (as ever) Grapey! For me, Badou and Etebo are tailor made to be the central two in a 442 or 4231, although would Jones ever play them there? In his diamond, either side of Woods maybe?
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Post by Goonie on Aug 28, 2019 21:04:13 GMT
With BMI and Badou back in the fold, the squad does look very large. Are we pencilling him in as a regular? thats right, we have 3 keepers 2 right backs 6 centre backs 1 left back 6 centre midfielders 5 wingers/ attacking midfielders 4 strikers Plus wimmer and imbuler plus u21 fringe players I tell you that’s too many to handle I wonder if Jones's issue he has too much choice but Luton I imagine he had a dearth of opportunities
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Aug 28, 2019 21:05:34 GMT
If we can get him motivated he's a better player than Allen and Etebo for me
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Post by somersetstokie on Aug 28, 2019 21:26:40 GMT
With the possible reintroduction of Ndiaye to active duty with the squad it would seem that we are seeing one reality of a classic tenet of military strategy and planning.
The tactical result of an engagement forms the base for new strategic decisions because victory or defeat in a battle changes the situation to such a degree that no human acumen is able to see beyond the first battle. This doctrine was probably most profoundly expressed by Field Marshall Helmuth Graf Von Moltke, The Prussian Chief of Staff in Germany's Wars of Unification in the 1860's.
This principle is often abbreviated to the belief that "no plan of battle survives the firing of the first shot."
From the first match of the season Jones and his team could clearly see limitations and serious issues with the actual effectiveness of his squad, and certainly with the evolution of his plan to operate a diamond formation. Jones almost certainly had ideals and intentions and fervently hoped to create his squad with his choice of players without being encumbered with the presence of unenthusiastic unmotivated premier league survivors. The early results this season have thrown this admirable aspiration into confusion and left Jones with little option but to take drastic action to potentially save the clubs season, and his job. He is now being pragmatic and is looking at an overhaul of his team to ensure we use every option and indeed glimmer of hope and opportunity that might strengthen his hand and work to our ultimate advantage.
It may not be exactly what he wants, but it could be a case of what might work, and he is belatedly throwing all his weapons and forces into the battle. So Bruno returns and possibly also Badou. However you want to view it this could be seen as a desperate throw of the Dice by Jones to see how things fall.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2019 21:29:50 GMT
With the possible reintroduction of Ndiaye to active duty with the squad it would seem that we are seeing one reality of a classic tenet of military strategy and planning. The tactical result of an engagement forms the base for new strategic decisions because victory or defeat in a battle changes the situation to such a degree that no human acumen is able to see beyond the first battle. This doctrine was probably most profoundly expressed by Field Marshall Helmuth Graf Von Moltke, The Prussian Chief of Staff in Germany's Wars of Unification in the 1860's. This principle is often abbreviated to the belief that "no plan of battle survives the firing of the first shot." From the first match of the season Jones and his team could clearly see limitations and serious issues with the actual effectiveness of his squad, and certainly with the evolution of his plan to operate a diamond formation. Jones almost certainly had ideals and intentions and fervently hoped to create his squad with his choice of players without being encumbered with the presence of unenthusiastic unmotivated premier league survivors. The early results this season have thrown this admirable aspiration into confusion and left Jones with little option but to take drastic action to potentially save the clubs season, and his job. He is now being pragmatic and is looking at an overhaul of his team to ensure we use every option and indeed glimmer of hope and opportunity that might strengthen his hand and work to our ultimate advantage. It may not be exactly what he wants, but it could be a case of what might work, and he is belatedly throwing all his weapons and forces into the battle. So Bruno returns and possibly also Badou. However you want to view it this could be seen as a desperate throw of the Dice by Jones to see how things fall. So to summarise, what you’re saying is, he’s winging it?
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Post by apb1 on Aug 28, 2019 21:32:10 GMT
I hope all this somehow crystallises into a first choice 11 that can get some consistency and not leave us every week thinking our best players are the ones who didn't play. Would be nice to get a break of some kind at Brum.
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Post by somersetstokie on Aug 28, 2019 21:35:12 GMT
So to summarise, what you’re saying is, he’s winging it?
Well yes. At least as far as his original intentions might have changed. You could say he's making up policy on the hoof, or certainly improvising. But that's just my view. Nothing wrong with his actions if its going to work.
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Post by lordb on Aug 28, 2019 21:39:01 GMT
So to summarise, what you’re saying is, he’s winging it? Well yes. At least as far as his original intentions might have changed. You could say he's making up policy on the hoof, or certainly improvising. But that's just my view. Nothing wrong with his actions if its going to work. Don't all managers wing it at times?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2019 21:42:06 GMT
So to summarise, what you’re saying is, he’s winging it? Well yes. At least as far as his original intentions might have changed. You could say he's making up policy on the hoof, or certainly improvising. But that's just my view. Nothing wrong with his actions if its going to work. You could say that. Hopefully it works. To me it looks like he doesn’t have a clue. I can’t say I know much about your general but on what you have said above the difference between NJ and your general being that it was the plan to adapt in every battle to suit the battle conditions. Whereas this just seem to trying to shoehorn the deserter soldiers into the same system in the hope the only system you’ve got will work!
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Post by somersetstokie on Aug 28, 2019 21:45:38 GMT
Don't all managers wing it at times?
I'm sure they do, but in this case it is good that Jones might be able to surprise us and there is more to his management ability than belief in a pet system. He is a young manager learning his trade, and we should be pleased if he is able to evolve and adapt, and is as yet far from being the finished article.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2019 21:47:17 GMT
I'm sure they do, but in this case it is good that Jones might be able to surprise us and there is more to his management ability than belief in a pet system. He is a young manager learning his trade, and we should be pleased if he is able to evolve and adapt, and is as yet far from being the finished article. I agree. If he shows us he can do something else other than the diamond that will be a start. I’d rather however we weren’t the experiment for this though.
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Post by dreamtheater on Aug 28, 2019 22:36:33 GMT
Badou will be kissing the badge next
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Post by somersetstokie on Aug 28, 2019 22:48:37 GMT
In my view we are facing a challenging season and it could be a roller coaster ride. No one would probably argue with that probability.
But has something changed? It can fairly be said that if you try the usual methods you are likely to get the usual results. My suspicion is that Jones has said to hell with it, we're not having much luck so lets put things in the hands of fate. Like letting Butland take that penalty against Leeds. Lets just go for it. Interesting times.
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Post by Gary Hackett on Aug 28, 2019 23:07:00 GMT
The continuation of the diamond is an open question. But if it is still to be the primary formation, interesting if Ndiaye is seen as a holder of one of the middle 2. You'd think he was more of an energetic player who'd be competiton for Clucas, Etebo and Allen? And BMI would make 5 centre-halves who'll all expect to play to go with the four number 10s. Smith Edwards Batth Collins Lindsay BMI CCVMcClean Ward Cousins Woods Allen Clucas Etebo Ndiaye Powell Ince Duffy Verliden Vokes Hogan Gregory Campbell I would have thought he'd try him in the holding role and see how it goes.
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Post by mrcoke on Aug 28, 2019 23:26:57 GMT
With BMI and Badou back in the fold, the squad does look very large. Are we pencilling him in as a regular? I'm so confused. I am really glad Bruno is back, less so about Badou but I appreciate he is good player, but he said wanted to trim the squad. He said he wanted no more than 20 and now he's bringing some back when it's already over 20. And he brought in 11 and put, at least Bruno, in the bomb squad in the first place. It seems a bonkers way of doing things. To help your confusion, I think there are a few in the 20 who Jones now finds disappointing - just look at the results. He is now going to see what he can get out of those that are left like Bruno last night. With only 1 point he would be stupid to ignore any talent he has at his disposal. Everyone wants to blame the manager, but clearly there are players who have not performed to expectations and will be side-lined if they don't improve.
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Post by mrcoke on Aug 28, 2019 23:38:48 GMT
We may question Badou commitment to the cause, but when he did play for us in the second half of the relegation season, he was one of the least reasons we got relegated.
This season apart from very poor defending, which Badou would not significantly improve in my view, we have often lacked creative spark, which Badou could inject into the MF. I feel he could be more productive than Joe Allen is proving to be.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Aug 29, 2019 0:21:22 GMT
With the possible reintroduction of Ndiaye to active duty with the squad it would seem that we are seeing one reality of a classic tenet of military strategy and planning. The tactical result of an engagement forms the base for new strategic decisions because victory or defeat in a battle changes the situation to such a degree that no human acumen is able to see beyond the first battle. This doctrine was probably most profoundly expressed by Field Marshall Helmuth Graf Von Moltke, The Prussian Chief of Staff in Germany's Wars of Unification in the 1860's. This principle is often abbreviated to the belief that "no plan of battle survives the firing of the first shot." From the first match of the season Jones and his team could clearly see limitations and serious issues with the actual effectiveness of his squad, and certainly with the evolution of his plan to operate a diamond formation. Jones almost certainly had ideals and intentions and fervently hoped to create his squad with his choice of players without being encumbered with the presence of unenthusiastic unmotivated premier league survivors. The early results this season have thrown this admirable aspiration into confusion and left Jones with little option but to take drastic action to potentially save the clubs season, and his job. He is now being pragmatic and is looking at an overhaul of his team to ensure we use every option and indeed glimmer of hope and opportunity that might strengthen his hand and work to our ultimate advantage. It may not be exactly what he wants, but it could be a case of what might work, and he is belatedly throwing all his weapons and forces into the battle. So Bruno returns and possibly also Badou. However you want to view it this could be seen as a desperate throw of the Dice by Jones to see how things fall. So to summarise, what you’re saying is, he’s winging it? Or he's being flexible and trying something different and seeing if it works, and tbf it did to a point against Leeds, I guess it depends on your opinion of Jones.
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Post by NassauDave on Aug 29, 2019 2:39:39 GMT
We are in the thick of a run of two games every week and the fantastic lad with whom the manager had no problems, who he thinks is in the top 5 African midfielders and was looking forward to welcoming back to the fold (even going so far as to give him a squad number), has not been seen or heard from since he got back from the ACON. The cunt May as well have been at Comicon. We are the ones who have been conned. Bastard.
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Post by cousindupree on Aug 29, 2019 2:51:31 GMT
Lets not get too excited here, remember Leeds away, we may well get a pissed off Badou as he can't get his move back to his beloved Turkey. I f he stays how long will it takes before he can understand batshit tactics?
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