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Post by serpico on Aug 24, 2019 16:44:09 GMT
He needs to try 4231 and play ince duffy & verlinden as a 3, even ince, duffy & powell. We need our best players on the pitch and them players are not butland & allen. Federici looked decent today. Duffy needs people around him so he can work his magic, he was isolated today, no width, we were never going to score in a million years. Ndiaye playing with etebo in DM would make a big difference. The piece of shit ought to be ashamed of himself if he cang step up The players are poor, not sure it matter about formations, there’s no pace or creativity, it’s all huff and puff. Name a player who genuinely excites you in this squad ? A player who can make things happen ?
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Post by berahinosgoals on Aug 24, 2019 16:47:42 GMT
He needs to try 4231 and play ince duffy & verlinden as a 3, even ince, duffy & powell. We need our best players on the pitch and them players are not butland & allen. Federici looked decent today. Duffy needs people around him so he can work his magic, he was isolated today, no width, we were never going to score in a million years. Ndiaye playing with etebo in DM would make a big difference. The piece of shit ought to be ashamed of himself if he cang step up The players are poor, not sure it matter about formations, there’s no pace or creativity, it’s all huff and puff. Name a player who genuinely excites you in this squad ? A player who can make things happen ? Duffy if he is used right, ince ( and I'm not his biggest fan) is not a number 10 he needs to play inside forward, powell, all can make things happen and have good pedigree Etebo & ndiaye dm and a bit more conservative back 4 That's the way forward, it really is
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Post by tony1234 on Aug 24, 2019 16:48:00 GMT
The root cause is in the Boardroom. Nepotism (Coates handing the club to Coates, as if he's running a family bakery) and boys-club stuff, in critical positions where we need real expertise, contacts and experience. ....This means our managers are getting chosen for being pliable - Lambert and Jones - rather than the best we can get. (I think Rowett came on the promise of the big budget). ... Subsequently, Jones - like Lambert - was useless.
What we need to do is:- 1. Remove Scholes and Coates Jnr from their positions and replace with footballing board members 2. Remove Jones - and go balls deep for a seasoned guy to take charge of the footballing side. For me, Sam Allardyce and Moyes have both said they want a project. This is it. On the Board from Day 1. Three years+ - where they can end up potentially as CEO, certainly our DOF. Both are worth 5m/yr salaries given the waste they'd save. 3. They choose the manager/ first team coach. We bring in someone like Nigel Pearson below to manage/run the first team. 4. We pick a simpler system that fits the players and stick to it. I'd be tempted by 442 or 4141 or 451 for a time. Accomodate our best players and give them the chance to learn from each other. 5. In January, give Hogan back and get a guy who will net goals in this league - like Vydra. Also get a really good ball winning tough tackling CM. Sell Butland, Allen - its been going on too long. Get an experienced keeper like Ruddy to organise defence. 6. Persist with Edwards and Collins (and CCV), as these represent the future, no matter what.
For now:- Federici Edwards Collins CCV Ward Woods Ince Etebo Clucas Duffy Gregory
Post Jan:- Ruddy Edwards Collins CCV Ward Saiss Ince Etebo Clucas Duffy Vydra
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Post by robrigo on Aug 24, 2019 16:48:03 GMT
I don’t know what the answer is anymore. I thought Jones was but it’s now obvious the likes of Bayern were right ( ssh! Don’t tell him! It’ll get him started 😉) Where does this club go now? Fuck knows! What an almighty 3/4 year fuck up.
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Post by jzime on Aug 24, 2019 16:55:23 GMT
I wouldn't be sad to see Jones go. But I struggle to see which managers of any proven quality would have the appetite to take over a side who are bottom of the second division and look to be in terminal decline. And if we sack him just to bring in another unproven but promising lower league manager, what is the point? We've tried two of those already, who both have very different footballing philosophies but haven't been able to get much at all out our squad.
I'm finding it harder to believe that the problem isn't the squad. I'm not even saying most of them don't care (even though that is a possibility); it looks like a very deep-rooted issue with the confidence and attacking mentality. Look at how Afobe has hit the ground running for Bristol but was poor for us. Any number of at-least half decent forwards have failed to perform for us, in a way they have done at other clubs, for years.
We need a serious rebuild. I don't claim to have all the answers. But I think it was a gigantic mistake not to just let Allen and Butland go this summer. We essentially gambled the long-term financial clout of this club against promotion (for the second summer in a row!) by not selling our most valuable assets while they carried any sort of value. Now Butland has lost his form and will have a year left on his contract next summer, and will be worth a fraction of the price we could have attracted this summer - when we held out for £30m under the illusion he's as valuable as Pickford. We should have been prepared to let players who has under-performed for years go to PL clubs if they're willing to give us £10m+ and reinvested some of the money into younger, faster, hungrier players with something to prove in this division.
We failed to add particularly serious pace and youth to the squad, for two seasons in a row. After allowing the squad to age and decline when we were in the PL too. Several managers have failed here and rightly faced the consequences of those failures. But when the club have been in decline for so long in so many areas, then you have to start asking questions of the club hierarchy itself. Particularly Tony Scholes, he is the actual CEO after all.
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Post by Lesalanos on Aug 24, 2019 16:57:17 GMT
Get in a good sports psychologist. Mentality is a problem for the players. Afobe leaves and looks like a weight has been lifted off his shoulders.
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Post by mrcoke on Aug 24, 2019 16:57:46 GMT
Your answer is in your own post. We looked promising 3 matches ago. Did anyone expect us to win? I expected to lose and I expect us to also lose the next 2 matches. A huge amount investment of time, effort, human resource, and money has been made it is too soon to ditch all that yet. We need to give Jones (and the players) more time to turn it round, before another massive exercise of paying off Jones and all his support team and engaging another coaching team. They will either succeed or they will sack themselves. I don't see an immediate solution to our problems. We don't have any DMF to play in front of the back line, We don't have creative MF who can make defence splitting passes like Leeds today and put a forward in on goal. So I see little point in appointing yet another manager and dropping him in the mire to struggle to get results. We have had no bounce from Jones and the previous 2 managers. Today we played a team who spent most of last season in a promotion position and their manager appears to have improved them. There is no disgrace in losing 3-0 to them, but I expect there are some Stoke fans who want to follow the Leeds owner's example and keep sacking 2 managers a year for a decade till they find one that succeeds. Let's look on the bright side: We have found a good GK today, we now know who our best FB is . We appear to have at least one striker who can hold the ball, and Etebo added a lot of positiveness. It is still August, we have time on our side. Obviously if failure continues for months then we need new management installed before January, not during January.
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Post by dadger on Aug 24, 2019 16:57:48 GMT
Haven’t got a fucking clue the club is rotten from top to bottom
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2019 16:59:49 GMT
The root cause is in the Boardroom. Nepotism (Coates handing the club to Coates, as if he's running a family bakery) and boys-club stuff, in critical positions where we need real expertise, contacts and experience. ....This means our managers are getting chosen for being pliable - Lambert and Jones - rather than the best we can get. (I think Rowett came on the promise of the big budget). ... Subsequently, Jones - like Lambert - was useless. What we need to do is:- 1. Remove Scholes and Coates Jnr from their positions and replace with footballing board members 2. Remove Jones - and go balls deep for a seasoned guy to take charge of the footballing side. For me, Sam Allardyce and Moyes have both said they want a project. This is it. On the Board from Day 1. Three years+ - where they can end up potentially as CEO, certainly our DOF. Both are worth 5m/yr salaries given the waste they'd save. 3. They choose the manager/ first team coach. We bring in someone like Nigel Pearson below to manage/run the first team. 4. We pick a simpler system that fits the players and stick to it. I'd be tempted by 442 or 4141 or 451 for a time. Accomodate our best players and give them the chance to learn from each other. 5. In January, give Hogan back and get a guy who will net goals in this league - like Vydra. Also get a really good ball winning tough tackling CM. Sell Butland, Allen - its been going on too long. Get an experienced keeper like Ruddy to organise defence. 6. Persist with Edwards and Collins (and CCV), as these represent the future, no matter what. For now:- Federici Edwards Collins CCV Ward Woods Ince Etebo Clucas Duffy Gregory Post Jan:- Ruddy Edwards Collins CCV Ward Saiss Ince Etebo Clucas Duffy Vydra Cameron Carter Vickers? Have you been to the game today? The lad is an absolute camel. If he has a run in this team we are a surefire bet for League One. The lad is absolutely useless.
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Post by greenhoff on Aug 24, 2019 16:59:54 GMT
Jones looks and sounds a broken man. He is miles out of his depth. Talks the talk but just hasn't done it for us. We have to act now before it gets really toxic.
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Post by tony1234 on Aug 24, 2019 17:02:41 GMT
The root cause is in the Boardroom. Nepotism (Coates handing the club to Coates, as if he's running a family bakery) and boys-club stuff, in critical positions where we need real expertise, contacts and experience. ....This means our managers are getting chosen for being pliable - Lambert and Jones - rather than the best we can get. (I think Rowett came on the promise of the big budget). ... Subsequently, Jones - like Lambert - was useless. What we need to do is:- 1. Remove Scholes and Coates Jnr from their positions and replace with footballing board members 2. Remove Jones - and go balls deep for a seasoned guy to take charge of the footballing side. For me, Sam Allardyce and Moyes have both said they want a project. This is it. On the Board from Day 1. Three years+ - where they can end up potentially as CEO, certainly our DOF. Both are worth 5m/yr salaries given the waste they'd save. 3. They choose the manager/ first team coach. We bring in someone like Nigel Pearson below to manage/run the first team. 4. We pick a simpler system that fits the players and stick to it. I'd be tempted by 442 or 4141 or 451 for a time. Accomodate our best players and give them the chance to learn from each other. 5. In January, give Hogan back and get a guy who will net goals in this league - like Vydra. Also get a really good ball winning tough tackling CM. Sell Butland, Allen - its been going on too long. Get an experienced keeper like Ruddy to organise defence. 6. Persist with Edwards and Collins (and CCV), as these represent the future, no matter what. For now:- Federici Edwards Collins CCV Ward Woods Ince Etebo Clucas Duffy Gregory Post Jan:- Ruddy Edwards Collins CCV Ward Saiss Ince Etebo Clucas Duffy Vydra Cameron Carter Vickers? Have you been to the game today? The lad is an absolute camel. If he has a run in this team we are a surefire bet for League One. The lad is absolutely useless. He was about Ipswich's best player, Swansea rated him last year... Why when he comes to us does he look a "camel" but nowhere else? I think we have to take a bit wider view of players.
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Post by senojbor on Aug 24, 2019 17:03:16 GMT
Bring Pulis back. It really is that simple.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2019 17:04:22 GMT
Cameron Carter Vickers? Have you been to the game today? The lad is an absolute camel. If he has a run in this team we are a surefire bet for League One. The lad is absolutely useless. He was about Ipswich's best player, Swansea rated him last year... Why when he comes to us does he look a "camel" but nowhere else? I think we have to take a bit wider view of players. The only wider view of CCV is his arse. Man alive if we ever buy or loan another player from Spurs I'll scream.
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Post by nott1 on Aug 24, 2019 17:06:50 GMT
Is Mr.Motivator free?
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Post by tony1234 on Aug 24, 2019 17:10:32 GMT
He was about Ipswich's best player, Swansea rated him last year... Why when he comes to us does he look a "camel" but nowhere else? I think we have to take a bit wider view of players. The only wider view of CCV is his arse. Man alive if we ever buy or loan another player from Spurs I'll scream. Ha!
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Post by ruts66 on Aug 24, 2019 17:11:28 GMT
What do we do? Scrap the process and bring back Pulis. He'd never agree to it (even if it were an option with the board) but I'd take him if it was for the remainder of the season then leave in May...
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Post by matelot1996 on Aug 24, 2019 17:12:24 GMT
The natural progression is that there will be a small bit of respite, maybe at Birmingham? Then due to the general shitness of our playing staff we will continue to lose regularly. The pressure and negativity is the thing that kills you in the end. The only way out of this mess is an overhaul of playing staff (not going to happen) or Managerial change. In the meantime the useless shits that wear the shirt continue unaffected. This situation will not be remedied by expecting our playing staff to turn things around. THEY ARE NOT GOOD ENOUGH.
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Post by sutekh on Aug 24, 2019 17:13:50 GMT
What do we do? Scrap the process and bring back Pulis. And bore the 9,000 poor bastards who can be bothered to turn up into a stupor? I would rather keep Jones and get relegated.
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Post by Absolution on Aug 24, 2019 17:14:51 GMT
Next league game is brum ... put 10 men behind the ball and try and nick a goal in the last 10 mins with three attacking subs ... I know this isn’t sexy but it’s what any manager would do (except Jones) I think we know what would then happen in the last 10 minutes.
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Aug 24, 2019 17:16:52 GMT
Complain to P Coates,but he would just say"What's all the fuss about"
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Post by stonescfc on Aug 24, 2019 17:17:00 GMT
Sack that parasite Scholes who’s only good for suckling on the Coates teat and bring TP back. I was the very first calling for TP to go but in this current absolute ‘end of days / clusterfuck of a situation’ I can think of no one better to sort these fucking cunts out! I’m sorry for the swearing but i’ve had enough.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Aug 24, 2019 17:18:26 GMT
I really didn’t expect us to deteriate this quickly on NJs journey. I like the guy but can’t help thinking he’s all passion but no tactical nous. I genuinely don’t think he’s capable of turning things around but don’t for a minute hold him solely responsible. His biggest mistake was making out all these free transfers were his first choices when clearly his shopping list has been hugely restricted by the board. He’s clearly a yes man and patsy for the board which is dissapointing as I had high hopes.
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Aug 24, 2019 17:18:49 GMT
Jones looks and sounds a broken man. He is miles out of his depth. Talks the talk but just hasn't done it for us. We have to act now before it gets really toxic. After today’s shambolic display I’m afraid I have to agree with this,he sounded a broken man on the radio with not a clue what to do next
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Post by MrFlirty on Aug 24, 2019 17:20:23 GMT
So he did what everyone wanted,, dropped jack and joe and played Collins and Duffy . And the same result. I've no idea and I'm glad I'm not in his shoes
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Aug 24, 2019 17:21:30 GMT
Bring Pulis back. It really is that simple. Is it? Or do you just have no imagination?
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Post by numpty40 on Aug 24, 2019 17:21:43 GMT
The root cause is in the Boardroom. Nepotism (Coates handing the club to Coates, as if he's running a family bakery) and boys-club stuff, in critical positions where we need real expertise, contacts and experience. ....This means our managers are getting chosen for being pliable - Lambert and Jones - rather than the best we can get. (I think Rowett came on the promise of the big budget). ... Subsequently, Jones - like Lambert - was useless. What we need to do is:- 1. Remove Scholes and Coates Jnr from their positions and replace with footballing board members 2. Remove Jones - and go balls deep for a seasoned guy to take charge of the footballing side. For me, Sam Allardyce and Moyes have both said they want a project. This is it. On the Board from Day 1. Three years+ - where they can end up potentially as CEO, certainly our DOF. Both are worth 5m/yr salaries given the waste they'd save. 3. They choose the manager/ first team coach. We bring in someone like Nigel Pearson below to manage/run the first team. 4. We pick a simpler system that fits the players and stick to it. I'd be tempted by 442 or 4141 or 451 for a time. Accomodate our best players and give them the chance to learn from each other. 5. In January, give Hogan back and get a guy who will net goals in this league - like Vydra. Also get a really good ball winning tough tackling CM. Sell Butland, Allen - its been going on too long. Get an experienced keeper like Ruddy to organise defence. 6. Persist with Edwards and Collins (and CCV), as these represent the future, no matter what. For now:- Federici Edwards Collins CCV Ward Woods Ince Etebo Clucas Duffy Gregory Post Jan:- Ruddy Edwards Collins CCV Ward Saiss Ince Etebo Clucas Duffy Vydra Cameron Carter Vickers? Have you been to the game today? The lad is an absolute camel. If he has a run in this team we are a surefire bet for League One. The lad is absolutely useless. First time I've seen Carter Vickers, christ he was poor, I didn't think I'd ever see anyone less mobile than Batth but fuck me we've got the two most immobile centre backs in professional football at Stoke. Takes a special kind of recruitment to achieve this level of wankness.
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Post by serpico on Aug 24, 2019 17:22:32 GMT
Jones has tried to run before he could walk, he should have come in and signed players to play a traditional 442 for a season or two and made us competitive and hard to beat, then maybe once he’d laid the ground work looked at progressing into something more expansive..
Don’t like to blow my own (not with my bad back) but I was a jones skeptic from day 1, his inexperience always worried me, I felt we needed an older head, someone used to the pressure at this level.
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Post by christhepotter on Aug 24, 2019 17:23:23 GMT
It's bottom of the league. It's 1 point from 15. That's what it is, and that's why we have to get rid. We have regressed steadily but rapidly since he took over, and that was from a position of having already regressed rapidly the previous two years. I disagree. Because your an idiot
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Post by scfcno1fan on Aug 24, 2019 17:25:57 GMT
4-2-3-1.
Has to be.
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Post by shakermaker on Aug 24, 2019 17:27:12 GMT
I just don't know either. I really did think Jones was the right man because I thought he would be smart enough to deploy other systems if he could see the diamond was failing.
But he (or Scholes?) recruited poorly over the summer. Instead of Bielik for DM, Justin or Rico Henry for LB and Dwight Gayle, we got Jordan bastard Cousins, shoehorned McClean into a LB position he tries to do but not very well and Scott Hogan (a half-season wonder who feeds on service he'll never get from our players).
He's a great guy and I'd be genuinely sad if we let him go.
If we do, I hope to God he doesn't sign a non-disclosure agreement so we can find out the truth of why it went tits up.
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