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Post by wizzardofdribble on Aug 21, 2019 17:08:37 GMT
every time a government tries to implement Marxism it turns into a bloodbath, just coincidence ? Marx was a philosopher, how individuals interpret is their doing. It’s like blaming Jesus for the Inquisition. I doubt very much whether anyone on here has read Das Kapital or any other of Marx/Engels works. If they did they'd know that Marx offered a critique of the Capitalist System based on the Labour Theory of Value. Although written 150 years ago, much of it is still fairly relevant if not a little dated. Communism and Marxism are two completely different things. Where Communism has been tried it's usually resulted in unmitigated disaster. There are exceptions though where its improved living conditions for the vast majority of the population and fucked the richest one percent off. Cuba and Nicaragua being two examples.
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Post by partickpotter on Aug 22, 2019 6:34:12 GMT
Marx was a philosopher, how individuals interpret is their doing. It’s like blaming Jesus for the Inquisition. I doubt very much whether anyone on here has read Das Kapital or any other of Marx/Engels works. If they did they'd know that Marx offered a critique of the Capitalist System based on the Labour Theory of Value. Although written 150 years ago, much of it is still fairly relevant if not a little dated. Communism and Marxism are two completely different things. Where Communism has been tried it's usually resulted in unmitigated disaster. There are exceptions though where its improved living conditions for the vast majority of the population and fucked the richest one percent off. Cuba and Nicaragua being two examples. Nicaragua - really? This from the Socialist Worker: How the Ortega Regime Turned on the PeopleIt shows why Socialism has an inherent flaw - there is no control for Government who control everything leading to that situation where “absolute power corrupts absolutely”. You cannot be accountable to yourself. This is why socialism fails when it succeeds in securing power.
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Post by bathstoke on Aug 22, 2019 6:52:59 GMT
I doubt very much whether anyone on here has read Das Kapital or any other of Marx/Engels works. If they did they'd know that Marx offered a critique of the Capitalist System based on the Labour Theory of Value. Although written 150 years ago, much of it is still fairly relevant if not a little dated. Communism and Marxism are two completely different things. Where Communism has been tried it's usually resulted in unmitigated disaster. There are exceptions though where its improved living conditions for the vast majority of the population and fucked the richest one percent off. Cuba and Nicaragua being two examples. You cannot be accountable to yourself. . Is that why deregulation in the neoliberal market is only working for the few. That’s a flaw of humanity, not politics. Unless we are saying that all politics are flawed because they’re inherently man made. & if that’s the case, it’s just a case of preference. Not morality. If.
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Post by partickpotter on Aug 22, 2019 7:05:41 GMT
You cannot be accountable to yourself. . Is that why deregulation in the neoliberal market is only working for the few. That’s a flaw of humanity, not politics. Unless we are saying that all politics are flawed because they’re inherently man made. & if that’s the case, it’s just a case of preference. Not morality. If. No - it’s more than that. It is recognising that “man” is flawed so there needs to be accountability. Socialism, in societies where it becomes the dominant structure, removes accountability.
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Aug 22, 2019 8:16:28 GMT
Is that why deregulation in the neoliberal market is only working for the few. That’s a flaw of humanity, not politics. Unless we are saying that all politics are flawed because they’re inherently man made. & if that’s the case, it’s just a case of preference. Not morality. If. No - it’s more than that. It is recognising that “man” is flawed so there needs to be accountability. Socialism, in societies where it becomes the dominant structure, removes accountability. I think that a major problem with Socialism is that systems that are put in place to help the genuinely needy eventually become corrupted, to some extent, by people who are not genuinely needy. And this erodes peoples motivation and does not bring out the best in them. The market economy has massive flaws but as long as it's regulated, does work for the majority of people.
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Post by felonious on Aug 29, 2019 15:15:58 GMT
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Post by thevoid on Aug 29, 2019 16:02:05 GMT
About time too. One of them looked like David Duke
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Aug 29, 2019 16:23:34 GMT
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Post by thevoid on Aug 29, 2019 16:32:43 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2019 16:48:11 GMT
No - it’s more than that. It is recognising that “man” is flawed so there needs to be accountability. Socialism, in societies where it becomes the dominant structure, removes accountability. I think that a major problem with Socialism is that systems that are put in place to help the genuinely needy eventually become corrupted, to some extent, by people who are not genuinely needy. And this erodes peoples motivation and does not bring out the best in them. The market economy has massive flaws but as long as it's regulated, does work for the majority of people. Don’t you have people taking advantage of the system now though? And in a socialist system would it at least not prevent the situation we have now when people with jobs are turning to food banks? Problem seems to me that it’s just gone too far as it is now. Things are too unequal and the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Now you can say that everyone has an equal chance but they don’t. The people in the best jobs and earning the most still likely come from money. It would all be well and good I think if each area had benefitted but some have been left behind through no fault of their own and you now have vast sections of the country forgotten and left behind. I can only see it getting worse.
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Post by partickpotter on Aug 29, 2019 16:57:15 GMT
I think that a major problem with Socialism is that systems that are put in place to help the genuinely needy eventually become corrupted, to some extent, by people who are not genuinely needy. And this erodes peoples motivation and does not bring out the best in them. The market economy has massive flaws but as long as it's regulated, does work for the majority of people. Don’t you have people taking advantage of the system now though? And in a socialist system would it at least not prevent the situation we have now when people with jobs are turning to food banks? Problem seems to me that it’s just gone too far as it is now. Things are too unequal and the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Now you can say that everyone has an equal chance but they don’t. The people in the best jobs and earning the most still likely come from money. It would all be well and good I think if each area had benefitted but some have been left behind through no fault of their own and you now have vast sections of the country forgotten and left behind. I can only see it getting worse. I think you may be onto something. Food banks wouldn’t exist under socialism- mainly because you’d have no food to put in them.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2019 17:03:20 GMT
Don’t you have people taking advantage of the system now though? And in a socialist system would it at least not prevent the situation we have now when people with jobs are turning to food banks? Problem seems to me that it’s just gone too far as it is now. Things are too unequal and the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Now you can say that everyone has an equal chance but they don’t. The people in the best jobs and earning the most still likely come from money. It would all be well and good I think if each area had benefitted but some have been left behind through no fault of their own and you now have vast sections of the country forgotten and left behind. I can only see it getting worse. I think you may be onto something. Food banks wouldn’t exist under socialism- mainly because you’d have no food to put in them. I don't think anyone is asking for us to go full Russia 1917 here. Just some measured socialist principles under pinning a system that has without it gone way too far the other way. For me it's about Education, Healthcare, anywhere where there is a monopoly or kind of way that people need on a daily basis- the railways, power, water. I would suggest you read "Private Island" by James Meek. It's a real eye opener.
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Post by felonious on Aug 29, 2019 17:56:08 GMT
Don’t you have people taking advantage of the system now though? And in a socialist system would it at least not prevent the situation we have now when people with jobs are turning to food banks? Problem seems to me that it’s just gone too far as it is now. Things are too unequal and the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Now you can say that everyone has an equal chance but they don’t. The people in the best jobs and earning the most still likely come from money. It would all be well and good I think if each area had benefitted but some have been left behind through no fault of their own and you now have vast sections of the country forgotten and left behind. I can only see it getting worse. I think you may be onto something. Food banks wouldn’t exist under socialism- mainly because you’d have no food to put in them. Win win because it would also solve the obesity crisis.
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Post by harryburrows on Aug 29, 2019 18:22:00 GMT
Marx was a philosopher, how individuals interpret is their doing. It’s like blaming Jesus for the Inquisition. I doubt very much whether anyone on here has read Das Kapital or any other of Marx/Engels works. If they did they'd know that Marx offered a critique of the Capitalist System based on the Labour Theory of Value. Although written 150 years ago, much of it is still fairly relevant if not a little dated. Communism and Marxism are two completely different things. Where Communism has been tried it's usually resulted in unmitigated disaster. There are exceptions though where its improved living conditions for the vast majority of the population and fucked the richest one percent off. Cuba and Nicaragua being two examples. Cuba was a communist paradise whilst the Soviet s were pumping in billions of rubles. Apart from that you're right 😉
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Post by bathstoke on Aug 29, 2019 18:30:56 GMT
I went fishing today with the kids & all I caught was whiting & whitebait. Racism Everywhere🎣
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Aug 29, 2019 18:33:33 GMT
I think you may be onto something. Food banks wouldn’t exist under socialism- mainly because you’d have no food to put in them. I don't think anyone is asking for us to go full Russia 1917 here. Just some measured socialist principles under pinning a system that has without it gone way too far the other way. For me it's about Education, Healthcare, anywhere where there is a monopoly or kind of way that people need on a daily basis- the railways, power, water. I would suggest you read "Private Island" by James Meek. It's a real eye opener. Even better 'Highrise' by JG Ballard
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Post by felonious on Aug 29, 2019 18:35:35 GMT
Marx was a philosopher, how individuals interpret is their doing. It’s like blaming Jesus for the Inquisition. I doubt very much whether anyone on here has read Das Kapital or any other of Marx/Engels works. If they did they'd know that Marx offered a critique of the Capitalist System based on the Labour Theory of Value. Although written 150 years ago, much of it is still fairly relevant if not a little dated. Communism and Marxism are two completely different things. Where Communism has been tried it's usually resulted in unmitigated disaster. There are exceptions though where its improved living conditions for the vast majority of the population and fucked the richest one percent off. Cuba and Nicaragua being two examples. Any excuse for a musical interlude.
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Post by felonious on Aug 29, 2019 18:36:59 GMT
I went fishing today with the kids & all I caught was whiting & whitebait. Racism Everywhere🎣 Beats fishing on the Oatcake eh Barth?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2019 18:41:11 GMT
I don't think anyone is asking for us to go full Russia 1917 here. Just some measured socialist principles under pinning a system that has without it gone way too far the other way. For me it's about Education, Healthcare, anywhere where there is a monopoly or kind of way that people need on a daily basis- the railways, power, water. I would suggest you read "Private Island" by James Meek. It's a real eye opener. Even better 'Highrise' by JG Ballard A work of fiction is not quite the same as a proper investigative account of privatisation and the results of it. If you’re happy that a state owned French company could be supplying your power or the Chinese government owning your water supply then that’s great!
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Aug 29, 2019 18:41:15 GMT
I think that a major problem with Socialism is that systems that are put in place to help the genuinely needy eventually become corrupted, to some extent, by people who are not genuinely needy. And this erodes peoples motivation and does not bring out the best in them. The market economy has massive flaws but as long as it's regulated, does work for the majority of people. Don’t you have people taking advantage of the system now though? And in a socialist system would it at least not prevent the situation we have now when people with jobs are turning to food banks? Problem seems to me that it’s just gone too far as it is now. Things are too unequal and the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Now you can say that everyone has an equal chance but they don’t. The people in the best jobs and earning the most still likely come from money. It would all be well and good I think if each area had benefitted but some have been left behind through no fault of their own and you now have vast sections of the country forgotten and left behind. I can only see it getting worse. It's about 'equality of opportunity' and taking your chances when you can. But you are right not everyone is in the position to do that. Inequality will always exist and that is not neccesarily a bad thing. It's a question of degree. And the majority of wealth isn't earned it's inherited. So much in life depends on what family you were born into and did they push you to achieve what you can in life.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2019 18:42:47 GMT
Don’t you have people taking advantage of the system now though? And in a socialist system would it at least not prevent the situation we have now when people with jobs are turning to food banks? Problem seems to me that it’s just gone too far as it is now. Things are too unequal and the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Now you can say that everyone has an equal chance but they don’t. The people in the best jobs and earning the most still likely come from money. It would all be well and good I think if each area had benefitted but some have been left behind through no fault of their own and you now have vast sections of the country forgotten and left behind. I can only see it getting worse. It's about 'equality of opportunity' and taking your chances when you can. But you are right not everyone is in the position to do that. Inequality will always exist and that is not neccesarily a bad thing. It's a question of degree. And the majority of wealth isn't earned it's inherited. So much in life depends on what family you were born into and did they push you to achieve what you can in life. Indeed. And some would argue it’s gone too far one way?
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on Aug 29, 2019 18:46:45 GMT
Food banks wouldn’t exist under socialism- mainly because you’d have no food to put in them. Rubbish, anyone without a job would be working on a collective farm, producing food!
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Post by bathstoke on Aug 29, 2019 18:49:20 GMT
I went fishing today with the kids & all I caught was whiting & whitebait. Racism Everywhere🎣 Beats fishing on the Oatcake eh Barth? It’s V poorly stocked these days...
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Post by bathstoke on Aug 29, 2019 18:52:08 GMT
Food banks wouldn’t exist under socialism- mainly because you’d have no food to put in them. Rubbish, anyone without a job would be working on a collective farm, producing food! Remember people used to go working on Kibbutz, when Israel was a socialist dream...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2019 18:52:24 GMT
Food banks wouldn’t exist under socialism- mainly because you’d have no food to put in them. Rubbish, anyone without a job would be working on a collective farm, producing food! It’s not communism!
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Post by sheikhmomo on Aug 29, 2019 21:03:25 GMT
Police have arrested people in connection with young Owen being twatted the other week. Strange I don't see any apologies on this thread
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Aug 29, 2019 21:14:44 GMT
Police have arrested people in connection with young Owen being twatted the other week. Strange I don't see any apologies on this thread I feel really sorry for them being arrested for twatting that little shit.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Aug 29, 2019 21:22:22 GMT
Police have arrested people in connection with young Owen being twatted the other week. Strange I don't see any apologies on this thread I feel really sorry for them being arrested for twatting that little shit. Has their far rightness been ascertained? They are obviously shit beater uppers.
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Aug 29, 2019 21:35:12 GMT
I feel really sorry for them being arrested for twatting that little shit. Has their far rightness been ascertained? They are obviously shit beater uppers. Well they didn't leave any marks given that young Owen was on TV the next morning looking quite chipper.
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Post by serpico on Aug 29, 2019 21:40:28 GMT
I never questioned that he’d been attacked, just found it odd they didn’t say anything whilst attacking him, you would expect if it was political one of them would have said something whilst sticking the boot in.
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