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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Aug 17, 2019 20:30:42 GMT
No wonder Jones is so pissed off though. Allen should be one of the best players in this division and he's actually a weak link. Yep, but even last year he was nothing more than a bang average CM in every department last year in the context of the league. He’s protected by perception rather than delivery.
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on Aug 17, 2019 20:31:55 GMT
He was better in the second half but first he was awful! So in conclusion he was better than awful!
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Post by boskampsflaps on Aug 17, 2019 20:37:30 GMT
If you think McClean was excellent you are Stevie wonder friend, so many poor crosses and can't defend save his life. McClean had a very good game today. It might not be a popular opinion, but it’s fact. As you say its opinion not fact.
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Post by mallorcanstokie on Aug 18, 2019 7:11:36 GMT
Always been a Joe Allen fan, I always respect work rate, effort and attitude, his coverage of the pitch is second to none, However what he actually does with the ball is frustratingly bad, his control, passing and shooting is just not good enough, I feel his best position, with his attributes should be at the base of ‘the diamond’ but he would need to be more disciplined to keep position as we can all see ‘he wanders’. Sorry Joe, it’s time for a break to see if we are better without you.
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Joe Allen
Aug 18, 2019 7:44:14 GMT
via mobile
Post by stokeykez on Aug 18, 2019 7:44:14 GMT
Always been a Joe Allen fan, I always respect work rate, effort and attitude, his coverage of the pitch is second to none, However what he actually does with the ball is frustratingly bad, his control, passing and shooting is just not good enough, I feel his best position, with his attributes should be at the base of ‘the diamond’ but he would need to be more disciplined to keep position as we can all see ‘he wanders’. Sorry Joe, it’s time for a break to see if we are better without you. Completely agree, so frustrating to watch at times. He needs to be dropped, etebo or Duffy are better keepers and passers of the ball.
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Aug 18, 2019 8:15:28 GMT
It’s interesting that the classic stoke fans forgive w throng for work rate and sweat has gone out if the widow in the current campaign to target Allen .
It’s pretty clear the system is a challenge for him but for gods sake let’s recognise the fact he 1 Work his socks off 2 Has been an exemplary professional when many around him have been disgraceful 3 He’s stuck with us when many would and have tried to jump ship
He may need a break or a change in role but he’s a credit if stoke city
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Post by neddy on Aug 18, 2019 8:21:35 GMT
It’s interesting that the classic stoke fans forgive w throng for work rate and sweat has gone out if the widow in the current campaign to target Allen . It’s pretty clear the system is a challenge for him but for gods sake let’s recognise the fact he 1 Work his socks off 2 Has been an exemplary professional when many around him have been disgraceful 3 He’s stuck with us when many would and have tried to jump ship He may need a break or a change in role but he’s a credit if stoke city Agree with that but you can’t really argue he looks jaded......surely a bit of rotation may see him back firing. A rest for his own good?
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Post by potterpaul on Aug 18, 2019 8:30:35 GMT
It’s interesting that the classic stoke fans forgive w throng for work rate and sweat has gone out if the widow in the current campaign to target Allen . It’s pretty clear the system is a challenge for him but for gods sake let’s recognise the fact he 1 Work his socks off 2 Has been an exemplary professional when many around him have been disgraceful 3 He’s stuck with us when many would and have tried to jump ship He may need a break or a change in role but he’s a credit if stoke city Mmmm....point 2 is disputable, didn't Jack turn down PL wages when relegated, whereas Allen stood firm and took the money. I know who, out of the two I class as an exemplary pro
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Joe Allen
Aug 18, 2019 8:40:04 GMT
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2019 8:40:04 GMT
It’s interesting that the classic stoke fans forgive w throng for work rate and sweat has gone out if the widow in the current campaign to target Allen . It’s pretty clear the system is a challenge for him but for gods sake let’s recognise the fact he 1 Work his socks off 2 Has been an exemplary professional when many around him have been disgraceful 3 He’s stuck with us when many would and have tried to jump ship He may need a break or a change in role but he’s a credit if stoke city I imagine a good portion of everyday folk would work their socks off, doesn’t mean we are good enough. He stuck with us or nobody came knocking? He’s not here for the love of the club.
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Post by crapslinger on Aug 18, 2019 8:41:28 GMT
Needs dropping but who do we replace him with ?
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Post by neddy on Aug 18, 2019 8:43:57 GMT
Needs dropping but who do we replace him with ? I would try.... Woods Etebo Clucas One of three.....Ince, Duffy, Powell?
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Post by potterpaul on Aug 18, 2019 8:44:42 GMT
Needs dropping but who do we replace him with ? Cousins, Jarvis if Clucas is out. Both are 10 times better than Allen with the ball at their feet
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Joe Allen
Aug 18, 2019 8:49:10 GMT
via mobile
Post by benjaminbiscuit on Aug 18, 2019 8:49:10 GMT
It’s interesting that the classic stoke fans forgive w throng for work rate and sweat has gone out if the widow in the current campaign to target Allen . It’s pretty clear the system is a challenge for him but for gods sake let’s recognise the fact he 1 Work his socks off 2 Has been an exemplary professional when many around him have been disgraceful 3 He’s stuck with us when many would and have tried to jump ship He may need a break or a change in role but he’s a credit if stoke city Mmmm....point 2 is disputable, didn't Jack turn down PL wages when relegated, whereas Allen stood firm and took the money. I know who, out of the two I class as an exemplary pro I will stick with Jones and lambert and rowetts view of him as a top pro
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Joe Allen
Aug 18, 2019 8:58:40 GMT
via mobile
Post by stiggerstackle on Aug 18, 2019 8:58:40 GMT
Is there such a thing as a ‘must play if fit’ clause?
I like joe but he really does need a few weeks on the bench. I’ve not seen a player so badly in need of the bench since TP’s SJW and Cresswell fixations.
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Post by clarkeda on Aug 18, 2019 9:00:15 GMT
I’d have taken the shite hawk off at half time. He was utterly woeful in that first half
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Post by potterpaul on Aug 18, 2019 9:02:29 GMT
Mmmm....point 2 is disputable, didn't Jack turn down PL wages when relegated, whereas Allen stood firm and took the money. I know who, out of the two I class as an exemplary pro I will stick with Jones and lambert and rowetts view of him as a top pro Fine you do that and I will trust Scholes views on what he believes are fair and just contracts to get the players the managers want.
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Joe Allen
Aug 18, 2019 9:04:36 GMT
via mobile
Post by davejohnno1 on Aug 18, 2019 9:04:36 GMT
Always been a Joe Allen fan, I always respect work rate, effort and attitude, his coverage of the pitch is second to none, However what he actually does with the ball is frustratingly bad, his control, passing and shooting is just not good enough, I feel his best position, with his attributes should be at the base of ‘the diamond’ but he would need to be more disciplined to keep position as we can all see ‘he wanders’. Sorry Joe, it’s time for a break to see if we are better without you. His coverage of the pitch is a bigger problem than his ability on the ball. He runs in all the wrong areas as proven on each if the 3 chances derby had to score yesterday
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Post by OldStokie on Aug 18, 2019 9:39:31 GMT
Joe is the new whipping boy. Having watched the entire match on Rob's link, he did most things right and some things wrong. But you could say the same thing about most of the players. Personally I would replace him with Etebo for a couple of games and see how that works out, but not because Joe is as bad as some are making out. I just think Etebo should be given a chance to stake a claim in this side. He's a different type of player and more direct up the middle than Joe is.
OS.
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Aug 18, 2019 9:51:01 GMT
I will stick with Jones and lambert and rowetts view of him as a top pro Fine you do that and I will trust Scholes views on what he believes are fair and just contracts to get the players the managers want. Wimmer , imbula, Berahino , Bauer, Ndaye , ?
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Post by potterpaul on Aug 18, 2019 9:59:13 GMT
Fine you do that and I will trust Scholes views on what he believes are fair and just contracts to get the players the managers want. Wimmer , imbula, Berahino , Bauer, Ndaye , ? Ridiculous isn't it
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Post by Miles Offside on Aug 18, 2019 10:11:03 GMT
Joe is the new whipping boy. Having watched the entire match on Rob's link, he did most things right and some things wrong. But you could say the same thing about most of the players. Personally I would replace him with Etebo for a couple of games and see how that works out, but not because Joe is as bad as some are making out. I just think Etebo should be given a chance to stake a claim in this side. He's a different type of player and more direct up the middle than Joe is. OS. I agree with that. Problem with Joe, despite that he's been here for ages, I don't see us playing a system that fits his type of game. I think he's best suited as on of two DMs.
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Post by clarkeda on Aug 18, 2019 10:45:34 GMT
Needs dropping but who do we replace him with ? Etebo.
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Aug 18, 2019 10:47:44 GMT
This “whipping boy” narrative is complete bollocks. He’s making big errors that are leading to goals, is getting caught behind his runners (second goal their lad literally bombs right past him before he realises, and Huddlestone completely sold him for the first) because he’s struggling in the formation to find his defensive zones and some of his passes forward yesterday were downright awful and have been for the first 3 games of the season. Wanting him dropped is not turning him into a “whipping boy” it’s a perfectly valid criticism of a player who is woefully out of form topped off with a dreadful miss. Just because he’s a nice lad and a good professional should not exempt him from rightful criticism. Everyone else in the midfield is playing streets ahead of where he is right now. All I have been advocating since my summer posts about him is the chance to see a midfield without him, not 8 minutes of a season without him.
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Post by Jimm on Aug 18, 2019 11:06:38 GMT
We're a different team without him and it's for the better. He doesn't suit us and never has but he's constantly is one of the first names on the team sheet and no doubt when Etebo is fully fit, it'll be Clucas who's sacrificed, who's actually started the season well for us. .
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Post by OldStokie on Aug 18, 2019 11:14:45 GMT
This “whipping boy” narrative is complete bollocks. He’s making big errors that are leading to goals, is getting caught behind his runners (second goal their lad literally bombs right past him before he realises, and Huddlestone completely sold him for the first) because he’s struggling in the formation to find his defensive zones and some of his passes forward yesterday were downright awful and have been for the first 3 games of the season. Wanting him dropped is not turning him into a “whipping boy” it’s a perfectly valid criticism of a player who is woefully out of form topped off with a dreadful miss. Just because he’s a nice lad and a good professional should not exempt him from rightful criticism. Everyone else in the midfield is playing streets ahead of where he is right now. All I have been advocating since my summer posts about him is the chance to see a midfield without him, not 8 minutes of a season without him. If you watch the entire game again on Rob's link you'll be able to see that he did a lot of good things. But yes, I do think it's valid criticism to point out his errors, some of which he made yesterday that you have correctly pointed out. The tenet of my saying he has become the 'whipping boy' is because too many posters see only the bad things and completely ignore all the good work he does. Many fans have said they could have made McClean their MoM, but he made quite a few errors in the game. Most of the players did, but some fans only see Allen's and use it as a stick to make him the whipping boy. History tells us that Stoke fans have always needed a whipping boy. At the moment it's Joe. And I'm not excusing him one bit for that terrible miss yesterday. That was awful and deserves criticism. But at least he was in the right place to miss it. How many of our players can say that? As I said in my earlier post, I would drop him and put Etebo in his place. That's not because he's a bad player overall but because I think Etebo might be better for the system we play. OS.
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Post by stokie223 on Aug 18, 2019 11:22:25 GMT
If you think McClean was excellent you are Stevie wonder friend, so many poor crosses and can't defend save his life. McClean had a very good game today. It might not be a popular opinion, but it’s fact. Don't confuse endeavour with ability. He's got a terrible first touch, can't pass, can't cross, can't shoot. He ran his backside off - which is commendable - but offers absolutely zero. Terrible, terrible footballer.
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Post by nott1 on Aug 18, 2019 11:31:19 GMT
He works extremely hard to achieve..............................................very little!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2019 11:43:51 GMT
It’s interesting that the classic stoke fans forgive w throng for work rate and sweat has gone out if the widow in the current campaign to target Allen . It’s pretty clear the system is a challenge for him but for gods sake let’s recognise the fact he 1 Work his socks off 2 Has been an exemplary professional when many around him have been disgraceful 3 He’s stuck with us when many would and have tried to jump ship He may need a break or a change in role but he’s a credit if stoke city It's this system and the last 5 systems that have been challenging for him too. He's a great bloke and works hard, but he hides in games and he is not a good enough footballer on the evidence we've seen. Clucas and Etebo are leagues ahead of him.
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Joe Allen
Aug 18, 2019 11:56:44 GMT
via mobile
Post by LankyPotter on Aug 18, 2019 11:56:44 GMT
Joe is the new whipping boy. Having watched the entire match on Rob's link, he did most things right and some things wrong. But you could say the same thing about most of the players. Personally I would replace him with Etebo for a couple of games and see how that works out, but not because Joe is as bad as some are making out. I just think Etebo should be given a chance to stake a claim in this side. He's a different type of player and more direct up the middle than Joe is. OS. For me though mate, Joe Allen is the weak link and was hiding from the ball yesterday especially in the first half, he certainly comes alive around the edge of the opponents box but he isn’t an attacker, he is a midfielder and he has to be an option for the centre backs and ryan woods to play through the midfield. He doesn’t rotate, his only movement is forward which forces us to play long. He doesn’t contribute much defensively even though he ‘works hard’. Take the first goal yesterday, it came from the midfield as Tom Huddlestone took one touch and completely took Allen out of the game, he is the weak link and our team would benefit from not having him at the club. Replace him with Etebo certainly and let clucas and Duffy fight for the place on the other side of the diamond. Clucas is certainly earning his place in the team atm though.
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Joe Allen
Aug 18, 2019 11:57:08 GMT
via mobile
Post by boskampsflaps on Aug 18, 2019 11:57:08 GMT
Fine you do that and I will trust Scholes views on what he believes are fair and just contracts to get the players the managers want. Wimmer , imbula, Berahino , Bauer, Ndaye , ? Scholes doesn't chose the players, if they turned out to be a good fit and we were still in the Prem no one would be moaning.
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