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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2019 9:23:39 GMT
I like Joe Allen, a good professional with a great attitude and commitment. He's not a flash player and gets a harsh reaction from fans. Through the dark times at Stoke he is one of few players fully committed to helping get us through it, and for that deserves more respect. If there are better players in the squad then it's fair enough to drop him to the bench, but the abuse he gets is really unfair. He is still a top player in this division and we are lucky to have him. There were a lot of games last season where he was the only one putting any effort in and I’m sure we would have been worse for him not being here. He plays better with Etebo. I genuinely think half of his problem is that he’s trying to do everyone else’s job for them.
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Aug 15, 2019 9:27:00 GMT
I like Joe Allen, a good professional with a great attitude and commitment. He's not a flash player and gets a harsh reaction from fans. Through the dark times at Stoke he is one of few players fully committed to helping get us through it, and for that deserves more respect. If there are better players in the squad then it's fair enough to drop him to the bench, but the abuse he gets is really unfair. He is still a top player in this division and we are lucky to have him. He's literally by no definition or metric one of the top players in the division though, and for his reputation I'd expect a hell of a lot more. I like him, just not as a footballer. He's a nice bloke and I appreciate his attitude and compared to some of the dickheads we've had he is the complete polar opposite but it's not enough to justify him missing just 8 minutes of the season hence my issues are entirely to do with what he actually contributes apart from his enthusiasm and attitude.
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Post by thisisouryear on Aug 15, 2019 9:35:41 GMT
I like Joe Allen, a good professional with a great attitude and commitment. He's not a flash player and gets a harsh reaction from fans. Through the dark times at Stoke he is one of few players fully committed to helping get us through it, and for that deserves more respect. If there are better players in the squad then it's fair enough to drop him to the bench, but the abuse he gets is really unfair. He is still a top player in this division and we are lucky to have him. There were a lot of games last season where he was the only one putting any effort in and I’m sure we would have been worse for him not being here. He plays better with Etebo. I genuinely think half of his problem is that he’s trying to do everyone else’s job for them. Considering all the shit that has gone on around him since he has been here i think he has been exceptional. Never once has he downed tools and like you say he is trying to do the job for others. He has probably been doing it for that long now though he plays without trusting the people around him so is continually doing it. As the team gain more experience of playing together then Allen may well settle down into his position, and start playing the game we all know he is capable of.
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Aug 15, 2019 9:38:17 GMT
There were a lot of games last season where he was the only one putting any effort in and I’m sure we would have been worse for him not being here. He plays better with Etebo. I genuinely think half of his problem is that he’s trying to do everyone else’s job for them. Considering all the shit that has gone on around him since he has been here i think he has been exceptional. Never once has he downed tools and like you say he is trying to do the job for others. He has probably been doing it for that long now though he plays without trusting the people around him so is continually doing it. As the team gain more experience of playing together then Allen may well settle down into his position, and start playing the game we all know he is capable of. Which is a massive technical flaw?
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Joe Allen
Aug 15, 2019 9:46:21 GMT
via mobile
Post by LankyPotter on Aug 15, 2019 9:46:21 GMT
I like Joe Allen, a good professional with a great attitude and commitment. He's not a flash player and gets a harsh reaction from fans. Through the dark times at Stoke he is one of few players fully committed to helping get us through it, and for that deserves more respect. If there are better players in the squad then it's fair enough to drop him to the bench, but the abuse he gets is really unfair. He is still a top player in this division and we are lucky to have him. He's literally by no definition or metric one of the top players in the division though, and for his reputation I'd expect a hell of a lot more. I like him, just not as a footballer. He's a nice bloke and I appreciate his attitude and compared to some of the dickheads we've had he is the complete polar opposite but it's not enough to justify him missing just 8 minutes of the season hence my issues are entirely to do with what he actually contributes apart from his enthusiasm and attitude. Spot on.
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Post by thisisouryear on Aug 15, 2019 9:48:31 GMT
Considering all the shit that has gone on around him since he has been here i think he has been exceptional. Never once has he downed tools and like you say he is trying to do the job for others. He has probably been doing it for that long now though he plays without trusting the people around him so is continually doing it. As the team gain more experience of playing together then Allen may well settle down into his position, and start playing the game we all know he is capable of. Which is a massive technical flaw? It's a flaw but not one that can't be corrected. Over time he will adjust, at the moment he is playing to his Stoke default setting. It is up to Jones to try and coach it out of him.
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Aug 15, 2019 9:53:29 GMT
Which is a massive technical flaw? It's a flaw but not one that can't be corrected. Over time he will adjust, at the moment he is playing to his Stoke default setting. It is up to Jones to try and coach it out of him. Or for Allen to adjust his game, if he's given a role to play and he refuses to play it as instructed even if his intentions are noble that's his own fault. With other midfielders already proving more creative, capable of dribbling, tackling and passing better than him he may soon lose his right to an automatic start. * *Unless he has a clause of some sort that prevents this, which would be madness.
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Joe Allen
Aug 15, 2019 10:03:51 GMT
via mobile
Post by LankyPotter on Aug 15, 2019 10:03:51 GMT
Which is a massive technical flaw? It's a flaw but not one that can't be corrected. Over time he will adjust, at the moment he is playing to his Stoke default setting. It is up to Jones to try and coach it out of him. I mean its a big ask to coach his natural game out of him at 29. We should of sold him last year.
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Post by thisisouryear on Aug 15, 2019 10:07:49 GMT
It's a flaw but not one that can't be corrected. Over time he will adjust, at the moment he is playing to his Stoke default setting. It is up to Jones to try and coach it out of him. Or for Allen to adjust his game, if he's given a role to play and he refuses to play it as instructed even if his intentions are noble that's his own fault. With other midfielders already proving more creative, capable of dribbling, tackling and passing better than him he may soon lose his right to an automatic start. * *Unless he has a clause of some sort that prevents this, which would be madness. Dropping him to the bench wouldn't do him any harm at all. He has been used at Stoke and taken advantage of by many players around him in his time here. Allen is no different to anyone else when you do the same thing over and over it becomes second nature. A step back would help him, we should persevere with him and hopefully Jones will help him get his game back.
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Aug 15, 2019 10:16:22 GMT
Or for Allen to adjust his game, if he's given a role to play and he refuses to play it as instructed even if his intentions are noble that's his own fault. With other midfielders already proving more creative, capable of dribbling, tackling and passing better than him he may soon lose his right to an automatic start. * *Unless he has a clause of some sort that prevents this, which would be madness. Dropping him to the bench wouldn't do him any harm at all. He has been used at Stoke and taken advantage of by many players around him in his time here. Allen is no different to anyone else when you do the same thing over and over it becomes second nature. A step back would help him, we should persevere with him and hopefully Jones will help him get his game back. Which is all many on here are advocating, not slinging him into the sun. He should be dropped same as any other player but for 3 years has seemed immune to it.
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Joe Allen
Aug 15, 2019 10:18:20 GMT
via mobile
Post by LankyPotter on Aug 15, 2019 10:18:20 GMT
Or for Allen to adjust his game, if he's given a role to play and he refuses to play it as instructed even if his intentions are noble that's his own fault. With other midfielders already proving more creative, capable of dribbling, tackling and passing better than him he may soon lose his right to an automatic start. * *Unless he has a clause of some sort that prevents this, which would be madness. Dropping him to the bench wouldn't do him any harm at all. He has been used at Stoke and taken advantage of by many players around him in his time here. Allen is no different to anyone else when you do the same thing over and over it becomes second nature. A step back would help him, we should persevere with him and hopefully Jones will help him get his game back. What would you say Joe Allen’s ‘game’ is? What are his strengths in your opinion? What does he bring to the team apart from working hard.
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Post by OldStokie on Aug 15, 2019 10:36:33 GMT
For the reasons a good many posters have already offered on here - 100% commitment; never lets his head go down; stayed with us when we got relegated when I'm sure he could have jumped ship if he'd wanted to, I have nothing but admiration for Joe. However, and it's always been a contention of mine, because he's here, there, and everywhere, I often wonder how difficult it is to play a system when one of your most influential players spends a lot of his time out of the position he is supposeed to occupy. On the other hand, how would the other players manage without Joe if he wasn't in every nook and cranny trying to get them going. It's a dilemma and one we have to leave to the manager. He'll know the pros and cons of playing Joe better than anyone.
OS.
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Joe Allen
Aug 15, 2019 10:57:09 GMT
via mobile
Post by LankyPotter on Aug 15, 2019 10:57:09 GMT
For the reasons a good many posters have already offered on here - 100% commitment; never lets his head go down; stayed with us when we got relegated when I'm sure he could have jumped ship if he'd wanted to, I have nothing but admiration for Joe. However, and it's always been a contention of mine, because he's here, there, and everywhere, I often wonder how difficult it is to play a system when one of your most influential players spends a lot of his time out of the position he is supposeed to occupy. On the other hand, how would the other players manage without Joe if he wasn't in every nook and cranny trying to get them going. It's a dilemma and one we have to leave to the manager. He'll know the pros and cons of playing Joe better than anyone. OS. Joe Allen’s positives, as you have listed are not really beneficial to our football team. Great he runs around, that should be a standard, in previous squads granted that was lacking and therefore needed from unselfish players like Joe but im afraid that we are now in a position where we have a squad of committed players and Joe Allen really doesn’t offer a lot to the side.
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Joe Allen
Aug 15, 2019 11:09:29 GMT
via mobile
Post by trickydicky73 on Aug 15, 2019 11:09:29 GMT
For the reasons a good many posters have already offered on here - 100% commitment; never lets his head go down; stayed with us when we got relegated when I'm sure he could have jumped ship if he'd wanted to, I have nothing but admiration for Joe. However, and it's always been a contention of mine, because he's here, there, and everywhere, I often wonder how difficult it is to play a system when one of your most influential players spends a lot of his time out of the position he is supposeed to occupy. On the other hand, how would the other players manage without Joe if he wasn't in every nook and cranny trying to get them going. It's a dilemma and one we have to leave to the manager. He'll know the pros and cons of playing Joe better than anyone. OS. Good post. Another question is, what is Allen being asked to do? Surely if Jones had asked him to "sit" a la Whelan and he seems unwilling or incapable of doing it he would be dropped? What are his instructions? Same goes for previous managers.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Aug 15, 2019 11:11:42 GMT
For the reasons a good many posters have already offered on here - 100% commitment; never lets his head go down; stayed with us when we got relegated when I'm sure he could have jumped ship if he'd wanted to, I have nothing but admiration for Joe. However, and it's always been a contention of mine, because he's here, there, and everywhere, I often wonder how difficult it is to play a system when one of your most influential players spends a lot of his time out of the position he is supposeed to occupy. On the other hand, how would the other players manage without Joe if he wasn't in every nook and cranny trying to get them going. It's a dilemma and one we have to leave to the manager. He'll know the pros and cons of playing Joe better than anyone. OS. Good post. Another question is, what is Allen being asked to do? Surely if Jones had asked him to "sit" a la Whelan and he seems unwilling or incapable of doing it he would be dropped? What are his instructions? Same goes for previous managers. It’s a good question and one I’ve always wondered. If he could just go back to being the metronomic version that Brendan Rodgers got so misty eyed about he’d be much less of a problem for us.
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Post by werrington on Aug 15, 2019 11:13:54 GMT
Good post. Another question is, what is Allen being asked to do? Surely if Jones had asked him to "sit" a la Whelan and he seems unwilling or incapable of doing it he would be dropped? What are his instructions? Same goes for previous managers. It’s a good question and one I’ve always wondered. If he could just go back to being the metronomic version that Brendan Rodgers got so misty eyed about he’d be much less of a problem for us. I’m not sure how he’s come to be this dynamic engine who tries to cover every inch that he is now? He certainly wasn’t that player when we bought him
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Post by potterspele on Aug 15, 2019 11:27:10 GMT
For the reasons a good many posters have already offered on here - 100% commitment; never lets his head go down; stayed with us when we got relegated when I'm sure he could have jumped ship if he'd wanted to, I have nothing but admiration for Joe. However, and it's always been a contention of mine, because he's here, there, and everywhere, I often wonder how difficult it is to play a system when one of your most influential players spends a lot of his time out of the position he is supposeed to occupy. On the other hand, how would the other players manage without Joe if he wasn't in every nook and cranny trying to get them going. It's a dilemma and one we have to leave to the manager. He'll know the pros and cons of playing Joe better than anyone. OS. Excellent appraisal of him. I think it captures the polarity of opinion on him nicely, depending on what you value more about Joe Allen's role in the team influences how you view his ability.
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Joe Allen
Aug 15, 2019 11:27:24 GMT
via mobile
Post by numberounominion on Aug 15, 2019 11:27:24 GMT
He can run all day, but he doesn't seem to have a role in the team and nobody knows what he is meant to be doing including himself
He played number 10 at the start of the season for us once, where constant running and movement actually made us more useful to us and not less.
It's hard to know what Nj will do with him
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Joe Allen
Aug 15, 2019 11:33:08 GMT
via mobile
Post by dreamtheater on Aug 15, 2019 11:33:08 GMT
If joe has a good season so will stoke city. I cant help but feel some of you 'experts' wouldve given sir stan stick back in the day for something or other.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Aug 15, 2019 11:36:34 GMT
It’s a good question and one I’ve always wondered. If he could just go back to being the metronomic version that Brendan Rodgers got so misty eyed about he’d be much less of a problem for us. I’m not sure how he’s come to be this dynamic engine who tries to cover every inch that he is now? He certainly wasn’t that player when we bought him He seemed to go like that under Klopp at first and he's gone back to that now. I don't hate him like some of the cool kids on Twitter do, but he's definitely part of the problem.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Aug 15, 2019 11:37:40 GMT
If joe has a good season so will stoke city. I cant help but feel some of you 'experts' wouldve given sir stan stick back in the day for something or other. Good comparison Tone, as according to your understanding of the diamond formation they're essentially playing the same position...
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Joe Allen
Aug 15, 2019 11:41:53 GMT
via mobile
Post by dreamtheater on Aug 15, 2019 11:41:53 GMT
Im now laughing at all this formation bullshit. It is becoming embarrassing .It is a simple game, all about players knowing their jobs . Nothing repeat, nothing wrong with 442 either for its exactly what stoke play right now most of the time with s so called diamond in midfield we have actually being playing for some years now.
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Post by LankyPotter on Aug 15, 2019 11:46:59 GMT
If joe has a good season so will stoke city. I cant help but feel some of you 'experts' wouldve given sir stan stick back in the day for something or other. There are so many things about this post that are wrong.
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Joe Allen
Aug 15, 2019 11:49:18 GMT
via mobile
Post by LankyPotter on Aug 15, 2019 11:49:18 GMT
Im now laughing at all this formation bullshit. It is becoming embarrassing .It is a simple game, all about players knowing their jobs . Nothing repeat, nothing wrong with 442 either for its exactly what stoke play right now most of the time with s so called diamond in midfield we have actually being playing for some years now. So we can agree that the reason that Joe Allen was shit against QPR in the diamond is because he has been shit for a while?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Aug 15, 2019 11:50:54 GMT
Im now laughing at all this formation bullshit. It is becoming embarrassing .It is a simple game, all about players knowing their jobs . Nothing repeat, nothing wrong with 442 either for its exactly what stoke play right now most of the time with s so called diamond in midfield we have actually being playing for some years now. So just so we're clear, who are the wingers in this current formation? And Leo Messi could 'know his job', but he's not going to be a good right back if someone asks him to be one, is he?
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Joe Allen
Aug 15, 2019 11:56:30 GMT
via mobile
Post by dreamtheater on Aug 15, 2019 11:56:30 GMT
You know what. I can hardly be arsed to answer somantics and detail anymore . I could for instance say, 'wasnt glenn whelan the base of a diamond' for years ? ? for instance .. and no. joe allen is not a winger there again, some teams dont need or play wingers in a 442.? Who on earth said you have to have wingers in a 442 .. jeez wept! last on this bollocks, In ye olden days, I played in a 5321 and i was a 'left wing half' in the three.
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Post by werrington on Aug 15, 2019 12:03:49 GMT
You know what. I can hardly be arsed to answer somantics and detail anymore . I could for instance say, 'wasnt glenn whelan the base of a diamond' for years ? ? for instance .. and no. joe allen is not a winger there again, some teams dont need or play wingers in a 442. Who on earth said you have to have wingers in a 442 .. jeez wept! last on this bollocks In ye olden days I played in a 5321 and i was a left wing half in the three. And you wonder why people speak to you in the manner they do and constantly call you out on here Just have a look at the manner and way you post and you’ll see the answer right in front of you
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Aug 15, 2019 12:07:25 GMT
You know what. I can hardly be arsed to answer somantics and detail anymore . I could for instance say, 'wasnt glenn whelan the base of a diamond' for years ? ? for instance .. and no. joe allen is not a winger there again, some teams dont need or play wingers in a 442.? Who on earth said you have to have wingers in a 442 .. jeez wept! last on this bollocks, In ye olden days, I played in a 5321 and i was a 'left wing half' in the three. Yes but the kind of 442 we've been 'playing for years' quite clearly did have wingers didn't it? A flat 442 relies heavily on them. Glenn Whelan wasn't the base of a diamond, no, not in the same way that the system works now. He was the screening midfielder in a 4-2-3-1. You might say there's an attacking diamond there but it certainly isn't the same thing Jones plays.
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Joe Allen
Aug 15, 2019 12:10:46 GMT
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2019 12:10:46 GMT
Considering all the shit that has gone on around him since he has been here i think he has been exceptional. Never once has he downed tools and like you say he is trying to do the job for others. He has probably been doing it for that long now though he plays without trusting the people around him so is continually doing it. As the team gain more experience of playing together then Allen may well settle down into his position, and start playing the game we all know he is capable of. Which is a massive technical flaw? It isn’t a technical flaw it’s a symptom of being part of a team where no-one had a clue of what they doing for a hell of a long time. He may settle down as the poster says. It may also transpire that in Jones system there are better suited players for the only 2 central midfield positions so to speak. But he’s not a bad footballer. He’s not at all shit. He’s not the source of all our problems by any means and it’s weird that everyone’s suddenly focusing on him now. We would have been a hell of a lot worse without him last season.
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Joe Allen
Aug 15, 2019 12:13:40 GMT
via mobile
Post by dreamtheater on Aug 15, 2019 12:13:40 GMT
Im 61, retired with failing eyesight, continual lower back pain and a cantankerous and, a highly opinionated tory for whom, brexit cant come soon enough. Whats your excuse? 😉
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