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Post by franklin66 on Aug 21, 2019 21:38:25 GMT
Great sub Nath. Take off a holding midfielder when we're 2-0 down and replace him with another centre half. Problem was he wasn’t really holding was he? He was awful. Admittedly he wasn’t alone but IMO it was the right decision He's been our best player so far and he gets subbed off when our shite keeper gives two goals away how's that right. Why not sub Jack off he was more culpable, to haul Woods off was wrong he should have changed keeper. People talk about upsetting Jack but how many times does he throw games before he goes. Those two goals were not Woods fault they were 100% Jack again. Yes pick at the defending etc but both shots were shite and any decent keeper throws his cap on both.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Aug 21, 2019 22:14:08 GMT
Problem was he wasn’t really holding was he? He was awful. Admittedly he wasn’t alone but IMO it was the right decision He's been our best player so far and he gets subbed off when our shite keeper gives two goals away how's that right. Why not sub Jack off he was more culpable, to haul Woods off was wrong he should have changed keeper. People talk about upsetting Jack but how many times does he throw games before he goes. Those two goals were not Woods fault they were 100% Jack again. Yes pick at the defending etc but both shots were shite and any decent keeper throws his cap on both. I thought he was awful tonight. Not as bad as Allen but outstandingly shit all the same. He is lightweight, lacks mobility and any semblance of physicality, he only ever looks right or backwards and generally hes pretty crap.
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Post by mickstupp on Aug 21, 2019 22:15:32 GMT
Problem was he wasn’t really holding was he? He was awful. Admittedly he wasn’t alone but IMO it was the right decision He's been our best player so far and he gets subbed off when our shite keeper gives two goals away how's that right. Why not sub Jack off he was more culpable, to haul Woods off was wrong he should have changed keeper. People talk about upsetting Jack but how many times does he throw games before he goes. Those two goals were not Woods fault they were 100% Jack again. Yes pick at the defending etc but both shots were shite and any decent keeper throws his cap on both. He’s not doing what a holding midfielder should be doing. Defensively, he’s shockingly bad.
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Post by Veritas on Aug 21, 2019 22:17:43 GMT
Problem was he wasn’t really holding was he? He was awful. Admittedly he wasn’t alone but IMO it was the right decision He's been our best player so far and he gets subbed off when our shite keeper gives two goals away how's that right. Why not sub Jack off he was more culpable, to haul Woods off was wrong he should have changed keeper. People talk about upsetting Jack but how many times does he throw games before he goes. Those two goals were not Woods fault they were 100% Jack again. Yes pick at the defending etc but both shots were shite and any decent keeper throws his cap on both. He played well on Saturday but was dreadful tonight, having said that I am still not sure what switching him for Collins was supposed to achieve.
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Post by mickstupp on Aug 21, 2019 22:21:47 GMT
He's been our best player so far and he gets subbed off when our shite keeper gives two goals away how's that right. Why not sub Jack off he was more culpable, to haul Woods off was wrong he should have changed keeper. People talk about upsetting Jack but how many times does he throw games before he goes. Those two goals were not Woods fault they were 100% Jack again. Yes pick at the defending etc but both shots were shite and any decent keeper throws his cap on both. He played well on Saturday but was dreadful tonight, having said that I am still not sure what switching him for Collins was supposed to achieve. I thought during the game (against Derby) that he was playing well, it was only when I got back and saw the highlights that it became apparent that he was the main reason why they were cutting through us like a knife through butter every time they had the ball. He’s weak, doesn’t read the game, doesn’t track runners and passes backwards and sideways giving the opposition time to regroup and stop us from countering quickly.
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Post by nottsover60 on Aug 21, 2019 23:31:48 GMT
Since when was it a good idea for a defensive midfielder to position himself the wrong side of a striker leaving him completely free as Woods did for the first goal? Should have been hauled off then. He was lucky to last till half time. Just as culpable as Jack for that goal and our defeat.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2019 4:00:15 GMT
He does shit all for the team. No point playing him as a dm, wasn't it pointed out before the match he's only made two tackles, everything runs through him or around him.
Don't see what clucas brings to the table either.
I know jack has made mistakes but I'd still pick him over these two.
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Post by wherty on Aug 22, 2019 6:21:41 GMT
Problem was he wasn’t really holding was he? He was awful. Admittedly he wasn’t alone but IMO it was the right decision He's been our best player so far and he gets subbed off when our shite keeper gives two goals away how's that right. Why not sub Jack off he was more culpable, to haul Woods off was wrong he should have changed keeper. People talk about upsetting Jack but how many times does he throw games before he goes. Those two goals were not Woods fault they were 100% Jack again. Yes pick at the defending etc but both shots were shite and any decent keeper throws his cap on both. Yeh let's sub a keeper off at half time then if feders gets injured during the game then what happens????
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Post by franklin66 on Aug 22, 2019 7:33:32 GMT
He's been our best player so far and he gets subbed off when our shite keeper gives two goals away how's that right. Why not sub Jack off he was more culpable, to haul Woods off was wrong he should have changed keeper. People talk about upsetting Jack but how many times does he throw games before he goes. Those two goals were not Woods fault they were 100% Jack again. Yes pick at the defending etc but both shots were shite and any decent keeper throws his cap on both. Yeh let's sub a keeper off at half time then if feders gets injured during the game then what happens???? You best stay in today just in case 🤒
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Post by franklin66 on Aug 22, 2019 7:34:55 GMT
He's been our best player so far and he gets subbed off when our shite keeper gives two goals away how's that right. Why not sub Jack off he was more culpable, to haul Woods off was wrong he should have changed keeper. People talk about upsetting Jack but how many times does he throw games before he goes. Those two goals were not Woods fault they were 100% Jack again. Yes pick at the defending etc but both shots were shite and any decent keeper throws his cap on both. He’s not doing what a holding midfielder should be doing. Defensively, he’s shockingly bad. Which is better than Jack's contribution but he stays on......
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Post by mickstupp on Aug 22, 2019 7:40:17 GMT
He’s not doing what a holding midfielder should be doing. Defensively, he’s shockingly bad. Which is better than Jack's contribution but he stays on...... How often does that happen though? I’d agree that Jack was having a nightmare, but the other keepers are even worse I’m afraid 😟
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2019 7:41:32 GMT
I just want him to stop pissing about with the ball in and around our box. Why doesn’t he just clear it. It’s infuriating.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2019 7:43:18 GMT
I don’t dispute Jack should have saved them,
But he’d not have a save to make if Woods had done his job. Didn’t the ball go through Lindsay’s legs before going under Jack. But not heard nothing about that either.
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Post by franklin66 on Aug 22, 2019 7:43:34 GMT
Which is better than Jack's contribution but he stays on...... How often does that happen though? I’d agree that Jack was having a nightmare, but the other keepers are even worse I’m afraid 😟 How do you know they are? Opinion or fact please Mick how can either be ANY worse than Jack currently is he's complete rubbish. I've not seen Fed or Davies do anything wrong so far and I've seen they both this pre season. Please tell me your not making that claim based on vids.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Aug 22, 2019 7:44:53 GMT
Which is better than Jack's contribution but he stays on...... How often does that happen though? I’d agree that Jack was having a nightmare, but the other keepers are even worse I’m afraid 😟 If they can save a shot thats straight at them they're already ten times the player with the state Butland is in at the min.
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Post by franklin66 on Aug 22, 2019 7:45:42 GMT
I don’t dispute Jack should have saved them, But he’d not have a save to make if Woods had done his job. Didn’t the ball go through Lindsay’s legs before going under Jack. But not heard nothing about that either. Not the point is it they were soft in the extreme that's just excuses billy bunter would have saved them. Really it went through legs 😂 he saw it all the way and flopped over it ridiculous.
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Post by ursemboys on Aug 22, 2019 7:49:23 GMT
He’s not doing what a holding midfielder should be doing. Defensively, he’s shockingly bad. Which is better than Jack's contribution but he stays on...... Frank did you really think we should have taken Jack off ? woods was at fault for the first goal alongside Allen and i aint even going mention Jacks part in it,Woods has played well up to last night and personally i don't think he is good enough but fairs fair,but last night he was shocking. 1st goal Jack,Woods,Allen 2nd goal Batth and Jack (Lindsey also turned is back to ball instead of attacking ) 3rd goal Etobo from start to finish
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2019 7:50:16 GMT
I don’t dispute Jack should have saved them, But he’d not have a save to make if Woods had done his job. Didn’t the ball go through Lindsay’s legs before going under Jack. But not heard nothing about that either. Not the point is it they were soft in the extreme that's just excuses billy bunter would have saved them. Really it went through legs 😂 he saw it all the way and flopped over it ridiculous. Did the ball go through the defenders (Lindsey’s) legs? Like I said, I’m not disputing Jack should have saved it, but the errors were made before jacks
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Post by franklin66 on Aug 22, 2019 7:55:54 GMT
Which is better than Jack's contribution but he stays on...... Frank did you really think we should have taken Jack off ? woods was at fault for the first goal alongside Allen and i aint even going mention Jacks part in it,Woods has played well up to last night and personally i don't think he is good enough but fairs fair,but last night he was shocking. 1st goal Jack,Woods,Allen 2nd goal Batth and Jack (Lindsey also turned is back to ball instead of attacking ) 3rd goal Etobo from start to finish Yes I do it's not just last night it every game bar Wigan and that's because he didn't play. Forgive me but Woods and Allen messed up but he SHOULD have saved it easily. Are you really blaming somebody else for the second 🤣 blame then for the opportunity but the ball was rolling just slightly quicker than a slug and he SHOULD have saved it. I'm being harsh here but he parried it back into trouble so he contributed to the third by your logic.
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Post by franklin66 on Aug 22, 2019 8:00:40 GMT
Not the point is it they were soft in the extreme that's just excuses billy bunter would have saved them. Really it went through legs 😂 he saw it all the way and flopped over it ridiculous. Did the ball go through the defenders (Lindsey’s) legs? Like I said, I’m not disputing Jack should have saved it, but the errors were made before jacks None of which cost a goal, lead to an opportunity but that's where a keeper earns his corn. If things went perfectly no need for keepers in goal. Their job is to save goals when the opposition get a chance be that with shit defending or brilliant play from the other team. Allen, Woods, Lindsay, Batth did not give away two goals they were crap leading to the opportunity but once that's all said and done neither shot was a rocket in the top corner it's HIS job to save that kind of piss poor shot and he failed again and again and again.
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Post by pottersrule on Aug 22, 2019 8:03:12 GMT
He's been our best player so far and he gets subbed off when our shite keeper gives two goals away how's that right. Why not sub Jack off he was more culpable, to haul Woods off was wrong he should have changed keeper. People talk about upsetting Jack but how many times does he throw games before he goes. Those two goals were not Woods fault they were 100% Jack again. Yes pick at the defending etc but both shots were shite and any decent keeper throws his cap on both. He played well on Saturday but was dreadful tonight, having said that I am still not sure what switching him for Collins was supposed to achieve. I was baffled by that one,though we did look a bit tighter in defence when he came on.Taking Ince off instead of Allen,when we needed to push on,and the lumbering hapless oaf Vokes, instead of the mobile pacey Campbell really got my goat.Baffling substitutions
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Post by ursemboys on Aug 22, 2019 8:05:47 GMT
Frank did you really think we should have taken Jack off ? woods was at fault for the first goal alongside Allen and i aint even going mention Jacks part in it,Woods has played well up to last night and personally i don't think he is good enough but fairs fair,but last night he was shocking. 1st goal Jack,Woods,Allen 2nd goal Batth and Jack (Lindsey also turned is back to ball instead of attacking ) 3rd goal Etobo from start to finish Yes I do it's not just last night it every game bar Wigan and that's because he didn't play. Forgive me but Woods and Allen messed up but he SHOULD have saved it easily. Are you really blaming somebody else for the second 🤣 blame then for the opportunity but the ball was rolling just slightly quicker than a slug and he SHOULD have saved it. I'm being harsh here but he parried it back into trouble so he contributed to the third by your logic. I did say Jack was at fault for the second (Batth and Jack (Lindsey also turned is back to ball instead of attacking ) and jack was definitely not at fault for the 3rd goal. Your just having a Jack hissy fit which i get,but nobody takes a keeper off for dropping a clanger thats just crazy
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2019 8:05:56 GMT
Did the ball go through the defenders (Lindsey’s) legs? Like I said, I’m not disputing Jack should have saved it, but the errors were made before jacks None of which cost a goal, lead to an opportunity but that's where a keeper earns his corn. If things went perfectly no need for keepers in goal. Their job is to save goals when the opposition get a chance be that with shit defending or brilliant play from the other team. Allen, Woods, Lindsay, Batth did not give away two goals they were crap leading to the opportunity but once that's all said and done neither shot was a rocket in the top corner it's HIS job to save that kind of piss poor shot and he failed again and again and again. I’m not defending jack here, but there were numerous players making so many mistakes before it got to Jack. They shouldn’t escape the criticism either.
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Post by franklin66 on Aug 22, 2019 8:10:00 GMT
None of which cost a goal, lead to an opportunity but that's where a keeper earns his corn. If things went perfectly no need for keepers in goal. Their job is to save goals when the opposition get a chance be that with shit defending or brilliant play from the other team. Allen, Woods, Lindsay, Batth did not give away two goals they were crap leading to the opportunity but once that's all said and done neither shot was a rocket in the top corner it's HIS job to save that kind of piss poor shot and he failed again and again and again. I’m not defending jack here, but there were numerous players making so many mistakes before it got to Jack. They shouldn’t escape the criticism either. I'm not BUT mistakes happen then it's down to him, look at his punch it went five yards straight to the player. Keepers can and should punch it to the halfway line he contributed to the chance then failed to make a save two mistakes for one goal.
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Post by nottsover60 on Aug 22, 2019 8:11:03 GMT
Nobody is saying Jack should have had a problem saving those shots but surely when you know your gk's fragile state of mind the first thing defenders and midfield players should do is protect him by reducing the number of saves he has to make. Watching last night I couldn't help thinking how Shawcross would have been throwing himself into the way of those shots. All those people claiming Bahtt was a better defender care to change your minds? Same would have been true of Whelan. Can anyone remember Woods even in his good games throwing himself in the way of a shot or making a last ditch tackle?
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Post by franklin66 on Aug 22, 2019 8:14:10 GMT
Yes I do it's not just last night it every game bar Wigan and that's because he didn't play. Forgive me but Woods and Allen messed up but he SHOULD have saved it easily. Are you really blaming somebody else for the second 🤣 blame then for the opportunity but the ball was rolling just slightly quicker than a slug and he SHOULD have saved it. I'm being harsh here but he parried it back into trouble so he contributed to the third by your logic. I did say Jack was at fault for the second (Batth and Jack (Lindsey also turned is back to ball instead of attacking ) and jack was definitely not at fault for the 3rd goal. Your just having a Jack hissy fit which i get,but nobody takes a keeper off for dropping a clanger thats just crazy Yep I am being harsh but you can't play him the others are NOT giving goals away. I was using you logic for the third! Allen and others messed up leading to the chance Butland parried it into trouble is that not the same thing as your blaming the outfield players for errors leading to a chance on goal.
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Post by mickstupp on Aug 22, 2019 8:17:07 GMT
How often does that happen though? I’d agree that Jack was having a nightmare, but the other keepers are even worse I’m afraid 😟 How do you know they are? Opinion or fact please Mick how can either be ANY worse than Jack currently is he's complete rubbish. I've not seen Fed or Davies do anything wrong so far and I've seen they both this pre season. Please tell me your not making that claim based on vids. I think that our new keeper (who was signed to be Butlands replacement) can’t even get onto the bench tells it’s own story. If you saw them both in preseason then you would have witnessed Fed’s clanger against Wrexham and also Davies’ feeble effort against Lincoln. We currently don’t have a good goalkeeper at the club.
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Post by pottersrule on Aug 22, 2019 8:19:58 GMT
None of which cost a goal, lead to an opportunity but that's where a keeper earns his corn. If things went perfectly no need for keepers in goal. Their job is to save goals when the opposition get a chance be that with shit defending or brilliant play from the other team. Allen, Woods, Lindsay, Batth did not give away two goals they were crap leading to the opportunity but once that's all said and done neither shot was a rocket in the top corner it's HIS job to save that kind of piss poor shot and he failed again and again and again. I’m not defending jack here, but there were numerous players making so many mistakes before it got to Jack. They shouldn’t escape the criticism either. I don't think they have,however the first two shots on target were both conceded by Butland,and any keeper at this level would have been gutted to not save them. We were poor all over the pitch last night and Butlands clangers were a massive contributary factor that can't be denied.Not for the first time this season we have started the game well only for Butland to concede a silly easily stopable goal,that has completely changed the dynamic of the game.
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Post by stokest5 on Aug 22, 2019 8:22:00 GMT
Woods isn’t a DM for me, he’s weak as piss. He only looks like he’s got a 5 yard pass in him. The only thing he’s ok at is receiving the initial ball from Butland when we try an attack.
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Post by franklin66 on Aug 22, 2019 8:24:39 GMT
How do you know they are? Opinion or fact please Mick how can either be ANY worse than Jack currently is he's complete rubbish. I've not seen Fed or Davies do anything wrong so far and I've seen they both this pre season. Please tell me your not making that claim based on vids. I think that our new keeper (who was signed to be Butlands replacement) can’t even get onto the bench tells it’s own story. If you saw them both in preseason then you would have witnessed Fed’s clanger against Wrexham and also Davies’ feeble effort against Lincoln. We currently don’t have a good goalkeeper at the club. Mick come on now hardly a reason to wright them off is it. One mistake each but I'll play along: Fed put the FB in trouble did not give a goal away Edwards could have kicked it out of play could he not? Davies saved a shot on par with Jack for the third last night both pushed it into trouble with no defensive cover. I know it's devils advocate in my analysis but also fair all the same.
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