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Post by loosestools on Aug 4, 2019 16:08:08 GMT
I get the thing about fan power and that should not dictate the decisions made by the Board, but this is now getting ridiculous. Total insanity. I actually quite like him, but he is not cutting the mustard so no time for sentiment or likeability. It all about the Board saving face - but at what financial cost?
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Post by VolvicStokie on Aug 4, 2019 16:26:43 GMT
Just unbelievable. One game into the new season and there's actually a thread on how much time we give him.
3 wins in 22. Yep. It's shite. But when you actually look into it. He walked into a SHOWER OF SHITE. A POISON dressing room, players with huge chips on their shoulders. Divisions in the entire club.
Now, it's taken him this long to effectively sort out the mess that Hughes, Cartwright and Co left as Rowett clearly couldn't. We're at a stage when we have near enough a new team. A new philosophy and a new style.
We've played one game. Had Jack not had baby brain, or whatever the fuck it was. The result may have been different. Fuck knows
Either way, Jones will get plenty of time. Regardless of what some fucktards on here say.
Patience, and a bit of a reality check needed
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Post by dreamtheater on Aug 4, 2019 16:29:46 GMT
A professional football managers job comes down to this:-
'win football matches'
3 wins in 22 is it ?
and nought out of one for this season, is absolutely no good
fin
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Post by songthrush01 on Aug 4, 2019 16:37:08 GMT
Would hughton come to us? i would have hughton,did really well at brighton.
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Post by johnnysoul60 on Aug 4, 2019 16:41:14 GMT
He has to have at least 10 games , trouble is same as last season we started with an insipid display for 70 minutes and watching other games teams seem to have a more about them , even those who came up from League one . Can't judge yet though , Butland error had a big bearing on that game.
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Post by rorystowel on Aug 4, 2019 16:43:49 GMT
Yesterday felt like a backwards step which I wasn’t expecting given all the time NJ has had to get things right in pre-season.
Yesterday’s NJ errors included:
- Team selection. My heart sank when I found out we were playing Vokes and Afobe together up front. Both were awful, unsurprisingly. We could all see that calamitous combo wasn’t going to work, so why couldn’t NJ? - Smith is no upgrade on Edwards, one of the few to emerge with credit from last season. I mean wtf? - JMac gives 100%, but he’s a winger not a defender. Why do we insist on playing attacking players at fullback, instead of buying the right man for the job? - subs made far too late when it was clear that we were not going to score - taking off Powell, our most creative player up to that point - formation was changed far too late, when it was clearly not working - Butland being selected in goal despite his mind being on engineering a move away from the club. Cue an atrocious error for their first goal - Adam Davies was not even on the bench, why? - Joe Allen. His first half performance was as bad as I’ve seen. Is he not suited to NJ’s system, or just not performing? If so, why is he on the pitch, and which joker awarded him MOTM?
On the face of it, sacking NJ just a few games into the season is madness, but ffs we need to start seeing improvements somewhere - and quickly. This was a shambolic performance against a poor team, and as bad as anything we served up last season.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2019 16:46:14 GMT
I’m surprised a lot of fans are shocked that we lost yesterday ,we played the game with a weaker team That is the big shock, mate, not the result, we've lost on opening day on many another occasion. The shock was that we played with a distinctly weaker team, one that hadn't been improved on in any way whatsoever. That, and that the players had no idea what they were supposed to be doing.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Aug 4, 2019 16:49:12 GMT
I've seen something that we've won 18 out of our last 85 games, haven't scored 3 in a game for God knows how long and haven't scored a goal to secure us points in the last 5 minutes since 2017 or summat daft.
I'm no fan of Jones to date but he simply has to be given time. Unless we are looking likely to go down, he has to be in charge come the end of the season as unpalatable as that may sound
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Post by dealstokie08 on Aug 4, 2019 16:52:20 GMT
Got to give him another 9 games. It takes time for the new players to gel together and hope we add a couple more before the window closes. How many new players did QPR field yesterday that needed time to gel? In all of this that's by biggest worry! Shows what a mess we are in.
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tony10
Youth Player
Posts: 402
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Post by tony10 on Aug 4, 2019 16:56:09 GMT
I blame John Coates. He brought lambert in. Then he went for Rowett and then Jones. Plus look at the money wasted on players since he has taken over from peter. Ever likely his sister runs bet365. It wouldn’t turn a profit if it was solely down to John. He seems a nice enough bloke but for me he’s the problem.
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Post by silverdollar on Aug 4, 2019 17:07:54 GMT
With the chairman down to the cleaner stating that promotion is this seasons aim, they can not fail to be alarmed by NJs record. So with this seasons objective and NJs current record in mind how on earth do you play this one? Do we go for the he will turn it around approach and use Christmas as a cut off?, do we accept that the task is huge and re-define this seasons objective? or do we follow the much trodden path of crisis clubs and sack him sooner rather than later? I honestly don’t have a clue how I feel about this, maybe the last 2 1/2 seasons have dumbed my SCFC senses, but apart from the self depreciating humour of another lame performance and defeat, I find myself caring less, and erring towards, just accept until we have got rid of all the deadwood, which may take 3 years, sorted out the finances and back room then our target is to survive in the championship. Strange times I hope you are not including me in that "we"! You seem to have no comprehension of the mammoth task any manager would have had coming into the dressing room that this club had when Jones arrived. All I expect from Stoke this season is steady progress and I do not intend to hurl abuse so early in the season. Of course I am upset and disappointed at yesterday's result but I have no doubt at all that the general scenario is one of ambition and steady progress. It is so stupid to think you can go on sacking the manager every time you are not happy with a result.
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Post by stokeson on Aug 4, 2019 17:09:14 GMT
Got to give him another 9 games. It takes time for the new players to gel together and hope we add a couple more before the window closes. How many new players did QPR field yesterday that needed time to gel? 14 new players into the club .7 plus 2 subs yesterday.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2019 17:13:14 GMT
Just unbelievable. One game into the new season and there's actually a thread on how much time we give him. 3 wins in 22. Yep. It's shite. But when you actually look into it. He walked into a SHOWER OF SHITE. A POISON dressing room, players with huge chips on their shoulders. Divisions in the entire club. Now, it's taken him this long to effectively sort out the mess that Hughes, Cartwright and Co left as Rowett clearly couldn't. We're at a stage when we have near enough a new team. A new philosophy and a new style. We've played one game. Had Jack not had baby brain, or whatever the fuck it was. The result may have been different. Fuck knows Either way, Jones will get plenty of time. Regardless of what some fucktards on here say. Patience, and a bit of a reality check needed Please, the poisonous players - Jesé, Choupo were long gone. Imbula, Wimmer not even had a look in. The team that we’re relegated was otherwise full of players who’ve never not given their all for this club - Shawcross, Pieters, Bruno, Butland, Allen, Diouf. Obviously whichever bright spark thought it was a good idea to not honour the relegation clauses in the wages for some and not others was a fucking idiot but the problem wasn’t those players. Rowett came in and spent £50m and made us worse. Bombed out and pissed off a few of those players. We now have another manager who is only managing to make us worse. That’s the problem. This whole narrative needs to stop. It was a mess when Hughes left. By all accounts Lambert fixed it then Rowett made it worse. Jones has had to do a lot in terms of fitness which he’s done well but he’s failing to make us any better on the pitch.
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Post by wuzza on Aug 4, 2019 17:17:58 GMT
With the chairman down to the cleaner stating that promotion is this seasons aim, they can not fail to be alarmed by NJs record. So with this seasons objective and NJs current record in mind how on earth do you play this one? Do we go for the he will turn it around approach and use Christmas as a cut off?, do we accept that the task is huge and re-define this seasons objective? or do we follow the much trodden path of crisis clubs and sack him sooner rather than later? I honestly don’t have a clue how I feel about this, maybe the last 2 1/2 seasons have dumbed my SCFC senses, but apart from the self depreciating humour of another lame performance and defeat, I find myself caring less, and erring towards, just accept until we have got rid of all the deadwood, which may take 3 years, sorted out the finances and back room then our target is to survive in the championship. Strange times I hope you are not including me in that "we"! You seem to have no comprehension of the mammoth task any manager would have had coming into the dressing room that this club had when Jones arrived. All I expect from Stoke this season is steady progress and I do not intend to hurl abuse so early in the season. Of course I am upset and disappointed at yesterday's result but I have no doubt at all that the general scenario is one of ambition and steady progress. It is so stupid to think you can go on sacking the manager every time you are not happy with a result. What never seems to come into your equation is that we are an incredibly well financed club - the envy of 99% of the league we operate in. That brings with it expectation of rather more than a ‘win more than you lose’ philosophy. It’s the rules of the game - it’s why Rowett wasn’t kept on and Jones absolutely understood it when he took the job. As things stand Jones is answering no criteria whatsoever - results are abysmal and the standard of play is no different than it was prior to his arrival. The pressure is well and truly on and rightly so.
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Post by thunderduck on Aug 4, 2019 17:19:34 GMT
I think the obsession with pace overlooks other footballing qualities that are needed to be successful at this level. The idea of the diamond is that you have a team press that cuts off the opposition and means you can get yourself into scoring positions more easily- once the first goal went in we basically lost all shape and become totally ineffective and had to watch QPR do to us what we were meant to be doing to them, controlling the game. McLean's runs were effective, and were it not for the strikers not really doing what they were meant to be doing the whole time, which is agreed a massive problem, we'd have probably had at least some better chances. Having pace won't solve the problem, the diamond's advantage is that it doesn't need players with super specific skill sets to play it, just discipline and effort, two things effectively non-existent at the club these past few years I'm obviously no expert but I don't necessarily agree with you. I reckon pace is a prerequisite of a successful team in this division. Are you saying that you don't need pace for this diamond formation.? Genuine question. Yes I do think you need pace, but not necessarily just that, the strikers don't seem to need to be especially focussed on pace as we're not putting in deft through balls or knocking it over the top. The wing backs need a degree of what McLean has, the drive to push past someone and the first 10 yards of acceleration, but we're focussed on getting the ball into the final third with a bunch of players to cause problems, so once we can do that we're sort of achieving our aims I think. Our strikers need energy and discipline to press from the front and cause problems when balls are coming in, not just the ability to run very fast. Yesterday everything positive in attack came from Ince or Clucas/McLean doing things on the wings and cutting inside, bringing defenders out and letting us overload their box. Pace is helpful in that, but also is skill and intelligence, because we're not meant to be counter-attacking the whole time, for which we would need loads of pace, we're meant to be controlling and creating space, where the other things matter
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Post by stokefan1972 on Aug 4, 2019 17:32:15 GMT
I blame John Coates. He brought lambert in. Then he went for Rowett and then Jones. Plus look at the money wasted on players since he has taken over from peter. Ever likely his sister runs bet365. It wouldn’t turn a profit if it was solely down to John. He seems a nice enough bloke but for me he’s the problem. John is a major shareholder in 365
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2019 17:41:00 GMT
I blame John Coates. He brought lambert in. Then he went for Rowett and then Jones. Plus look at the money wasted on players since he has taken over from peter. Ever likely his sister runs bet365. It wouldn’t turn a profit if it was solely down to John. He seems a nice enough bloke but for me he’s the problem. John is a major shareholder in 365 Shareholders don’t make decisions on the day to day running of a business
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Post by stokefan1972 on Aug 4, 2019 17:42:08 GMT
John is a major shareholder in 365 Shareholders don’t make decisions on the day to day running of a business major shareholders do they vote
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Post by robboleek on Aug 4, 2019 17:42:23 GMT
Just unbelievable. One game into the new season and there's actually a thread on how much time we give him. 3 wins in 22. Yep. It's shite. But when you actually look into it. He walked into a SHOWER OF SHITE. A POISON dressing room, players with huge chips on their shoulders. Divisions in the entire club. Now, it's taken him this long to effectively sort out the mess that Hughes, Cartwright and Co left as Rowett clearly couldn't. We're at a stage when we have near enough a new team. A new philosophy and a new style. We've played one game. Had Jack not had baby brain, or whatever the fuck it was. The result may have been different. Fuck knows Either way, Jones will get plenty of time. Regardless of what some fucktards on here say. Patience, and a bit of a reality check needed Not sure about the new team. 8 of the starting 11 were serving up that shite last season.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2019 17:44:47 GMT
Shareholders don’t make decisions on the day to day running of a business major shareholders do they vote Not they don’t unless it’s on a very limited set of matters and that’s normally only for investor shareholders... I very much doubt John Coates has anything to do with Bet 365 other than he got some shares a long time ago. It’s all Denise and the executive team she’s hired and assembled.
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Post by march4 on Aug 4, 2019 17:45:32 GMT
That is definitely who I would have ready Agreed, good coach, might be able to get something out if this bunch. Of course he would.
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Post by stokefan1972 on Aug 4, 2019 17:46:53 GMT
major shareholders do they vote Not they don’t unless it’s on a very limited set of matters and that’s normally only for investor shareholders... I very much doubt John Coates has anything to do with Bet 365 other than he got some shares a long time ago. It’s all Denise and the executive team she’s hired and assembled. ok.smarty
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Post by stokefan1972 on Aug 4, 2019 17:49:54 GMT
Not they don’t unless it’s on a very limited set of matters and that’s normally only for investor shareholders... I very much doubt John Coates has anything to do with Bet 365 other than he got some shares a long time ago. It’s all Denise and the executive team she’s hired and assembled. ok.smarty serious money involved in the shares
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Post by tosh on Aug 4, 2019 18:13:44 GMT
I blame John Coates. He brought lambert in. Then he went for Rowett and then Jones. Plus look at the money wasted on players since he has taken over from peter. Ever likely his sister runs bet365. It wouldn’t turn a profit if it was solely down to John. He seems a nice enough bloke but for me he’s the problem. John is a major shareholder in 365 True - but he doesn’t run the company.
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Post by stokefan1972 on Aug 4, 2019 18:20:35 GMT
They'd rather spend millions putting in their own electric supply
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Aug 4, 2019 18:35:39 GMT
Yesterday felt like a backwards step which I wasn’t expecting given all the time NJ has had to get things right in pre-season. Yesterday’s NJ errors included: - Team selection. My heart sank when I found out we were playing Vokes and Afobe together up front. Both were awful, unsurprisingly. We could all see that calamitous combo wasn’t going to work, so why couldn’t NJ? - Smith is no upgrade on Edwards, one of the few to emerge with credit from last season. I mean wtf? - JMac gives 100%, but he’s a winger not a defender. Why do we insist on playing attacking players at fullback, instead of buying the right man for the job? - subs made far too late when it was clear that we were not going to score - taking off Powell, our most creative player up to that point - formation was changed far too late, when it was clearly not working - Butland being selected in goal despite his mind being on engineering a move away from the club. Cue an atrocious error for their first goal - Adam Davies was not even on the bench, why? - Joe Allen. His first half performance was as bad as I’ve seen. Is he not suited to NJ’s system, or just not performing? If so, why is he on the pitch, and which joker awarded him MOTM? On the face of it, sacking NJ just a few games into the season is madness, but ffs we need to start seeing improvements somewhere - and quickly. This was a shambolic performance against a poor team, and as bad as anything we served up last season. Have to say I agree 100% my thighs exactly very very disappointing especially as we seemed to improve in the later home Games For me Etebo , Ince and Edwards have to start at charlton , I’d like to see 4 4 1 1 too but can’t see it happening
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Post by Miles Offside on Aug 4, 2019 18:44:30 GMT
If NJ insists on sticking with the diamond, no matter what, then - barring a remarkable turn-around in performances and results - he'll be doing a Rowett.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Aug 4, 2019 18:52:44 GMT
Yesterday felt like a backwards step which I wasn’t expecting given all the time NJ has had to get things right in pre-season. Yesterday’s NJ errors included: - Team selection. My heart sank when I found out we were playing Vokes and Afobe together up front. Both were awful, unsurprisingly. We could all see that calamitous combo wasn’t going to work, so why couldn’t NJ? - Smith is no upgrade on Edwards, one of the few to emerge with credit from last season. I mean wtf? - JMac gives 100%, but he’s a winger not a defender. Why do we insist on playing attacking players at fullback, instead of buying the right man for the job? - subs made far too late when it was clear that we were not going to score - taking off Powell, our most creative player up to that point - formation was changed far too late, when it was clearly not working - Butland being selected in goal despite his mind being on engineering a move away from the club. Cue an atrocious error for their first goal - Adam Davies was not even on the bench, why? - Joe Allen. His first half performance was as bad as I’ve seen. Is he not suited to NJ’s system, or just not performing? If so, why is he on the pitch, and which joker awarded him MOTM? On the face of it, sacking NJ just a few games into the season is madness, but ffs we need to start seeing improvements somewhere - and quickly. This was a shambolic performance against a poor team, and as bad as anything we served up last season. Have to say I agree 100% my thighs exactly very very disappointing especially as we seemed to improve in the later home Games For me Etebo , Ince and Edwards have to start at charlton , I’d like to see 4 4 1 1 too but can’t see it happening You have very, very disappointing thighs, Benji? 😜
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Post by trickydicky73 on Aug 4, 2019 18:55:37 GMT
If NJ insists on sticking with the diamond, no matter what, then - barring a remarkable turn-around in performances and results - he'll be doing a Rowett. I agree. The diamond is a bit shit, isn't it? At least our version of it so far.
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Post by Milkie on Aug 21, 2019 20:20:47 GMT
Didn’t think it would be this bad!
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