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Post by smallthorner on Sept 8, 2019 17:28:17 GMT
We need to sack Root as captain. No fight and it feeds itself through the team Not disagreeing with you regarding Root but who becomes captain though? And tbh, I think the spirit within the group is the reason we haven't been hammered as Australia are a better side than us right now. That's not the problem. Bit controversial I know. But how about giving Morgan a go. He seems to command respect and as a batsman cannot be much worse than Roy. Also I think that would release Root from a responsibility that seems a tad too much.
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Sept 8, 2019 17:46:47 GMT
Not disagreeing with you regarding Root but who becomes captain though? And tbh, I think the spirit within the group is the reason we haven't been hammered as Australia are a better side than us right now. That's not the problem. Bit controversial I know. But how about giving Morgan a go. He seems to command respect and as a batsman cannot be much worse than Roy. Also I think that would release Root from a responsibility that seems a tad too much. We need to keep well away from the white ball players,we have too many in the Test team as it is.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Sept 8, 2019 17:49:54 GMT
Shame after the World Cup but time for change.
Root sacked as skipper let him concentrate on his batting. He’s a wet lettuce as captain. No passion.
The experiment re Roy has failed. Not got the technique for tests.
Burns - in Denly - in at 3 Root - out as captain in as a no.4 Morgan - in as skipper Foakes - in as WK. Shouldn’t have been dropped in the first place. Stokes - in Archer - in Shahid - in when fit Broad - I’m 50/50 about Sam Curran - in again what did he do wrong
Need to find another new opener.
Oh and I can’t stand that cheat Smith. Just something I don’t like about him. Our bowling at him was pathetic. We almost gave up Before he came in.
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Post by M on Sept 8, 2019 17:57:05 GMT
Shame after the World Cup but time for change. Root sacked as skipper let him concentrate on his batting. He’s a wet lettuce as captain. No passion. The experiment re Roy has failed. Not got the technique for tests. Burns - in Denly - in at 3 Root - out as captain in as a no.4 Morgan - in as skipper Foakes - in as WK. Shouldn’t have been dropped in the first place. Stokes - in Archer - in Shahid - in when fit Broad - I’m 50/50 about Sam Curran - in again what did he do wrong Need to find another new opener. Oh and I can’t stand that cheat Smith. Just something I don’t like about him. Our bowling at him was pathetic. We almost gave up Before he came in. Stokes should be Captain. If it wasn't for the fact Root was scoring for fun at the time Cook stood down they would have turned to him as far as I'm concerned.
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Post by smallthorner on Sept 8, 2019 17:58:06 GMT
Bit controversial I know. But how about giving Morgan a go. He seems to command respect and as a batsman cannot be much worse than Roy. Also I think that would release Root from a responsibility that seems a tad too much. We need to keep well away from the white ball players,we have too many in the Test team as it is. Fair point. Just a thought.😊
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Post by xchpotter on Sept 8, 2019 18:08:23 GMT
If we win the last test then it will make the result look far better than it is. In truth Australia have hardly got out of second gear and beaten us comfortably.
Stokes aside, we seem to be lacking an edginess that you need at the top end of competitive sport. There are too many in the team thinking it’s more about the cucumber sandwiches and tea.
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Sept 8, 2019 18:10:23 GMT
It was fantastic winning the W/C. But are we sacrificing our Test future for the sake of white ball Cricket?
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Post by AlliG on Sept 8, 2019 18:37:17 GMT
I'd sack the 3rd umpire on the spot for that debacle. It really was unbelievable. Every person in the ground could see that the ball deviated 2 or 3 inches before it hit the pad (and even one-eyed Glenn McGrath said the batsman smashed the cover off it! ). Thought the Aussie review for LBW against Overton when the inswinging yorker flicked off his pads and went for 4 down to fine leg was yet another appalling use of the review by Paine. Even an Australian captain should have identified that if a ball hits the pads and deflects towards the stumps but still misses leg stump then the original delivery was missing the stumps by even more than it actually did.
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Post by AlliG on Sept 8, 2019 18:57:39 GMT
It was fantastic winning the W/C. But are we sacrificing our Test future for the sake of white ball Cricket? No. Let's be honest and say that none of the players suggested above to come into the team are significantly better than the players they would replace. We currently have a Test squad that is reminiscent of the teams of the 1990s. In 10-20 years time when we discuss this Test team in the pub, the names of Root, Stokes, Broad (and maybe Archer depending on his future career) will immediately spring to mind and there will be "that bloke in glasses who batted with Stokes at Headingley" but the rest (from a Test perspective) will be as easy to recall as say Crawley, James, Ealham, Headley, Croft, Salisbury, even Cork & DeFreitas, all fairly decent players but not top level Test players. This was a Test series between 2 pretty mediocre batting teams, with Australia having the stand-out batsman and one extra quality bowler. If England had shown the application they did today in the first innings, this Test match would have petered out into a draw.
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Post by chuckrocky on Sept 8, 2019 19:39:53 GMT
Hugely disappointing series, we’ve largely been toss throughout. Things would probably have been different had we had Anderson and Wood fit but you just can’t excuse the baffling selection policy when it comes to our batting.
There’s no worse sight in cricket than the Aussies celebrating on our own turf. We’ve got show some pride and ensure they at least don’t win the series. I’d be going with:
Burns Sibley Denly Root Pope Stokes Foakes Curran Leach Archer Broad
Not a cat in hells chance they’ll make that many changes but the absolute minimum they must do is drop Roy and one of Bairstow or Buttler.
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Post by GeneralFaye on Sept 8, 2019 19:40:54 GMT
Shame after the World Cup but time for change. Root sacked as skipper let him concentrate on his batting. He’s a wet lettuce as captain. No passion. The experiment re Roy has failed. Not got the technique for tests. Burns - in Denly - in at 3 Root - out as captain in as a no.4 Morgan - in as skipper Foakes - in as WK. Shouldn’t have been dropped in the first place. Stokes - in Archer - in Shahid - in when fit Broad - I’m 50/50 about Sam Curran - in again what did he do wrong Need to find another new opener. Oh and I can’t stand that cheat Smith. Just something I don’t like about him. Our bowling at him was pathetic. We almost gave up Before he came in. Stokes should be Captain. If it wasn't for the fact Root was scoring for fun at the time Cook stood down they would have turned to him as far as I'm concerned. Stokes CANNOT be captain. He has enough on his plate being an all rounder and is an inspirational influence without the extra burden of captaining a side.
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Post by GeneralFaye on Sept 8, 2019 19:45:22 GMT
We won't make wholesale changes for the last test of the series. Quite frankly, I don't think it would be fair to chuck in some young players for one game. If any changes are made it'll be for players who are in and around the squad already like Curran and Woakes, maybe Pope.
Oh and one last thought, Archer should be #11 in the batting order until he can prove himself.
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Post by M on Sept 8, 2019 20:03:57 GMT
Stokes should be Captain. If it wasn't for the fact Root was scoring for fun at the time Cook stood down they would have turned to him as far as I'm concerned. Stokes CANNOT be captain. He has enough on his plate being an all rounder and is an inspirational influence without the extra burden of captaining a side. I think he's exactly the type of character that would thrive in it myself
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Post by Cast no shadow on Sept 8, 2019 21:07:30 GMT
Hopefully some changes for the oval. Would like see sibley pope foakes and curran in, probably get jennings vince and ballance
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Sept 8, 2019 21:25:08 GMT
When I think back now on that no ball against Smith,who went on to score an extra 100 runs,would have meant the Aussies batting on Sunday to get the runs required,we just may have got a draw.
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Post by chuckrocky on Sept 8, 2019 21:28:49 GMT
Hopefully some changes for the oval. Would like see sibley pope foakes and curran in, probably get jennings vince and ballance The sad thing is Jennings, Vince and Ballance would have contributed more this series than Roy, Bairstow and Buttler.
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Post by rickyfullerbeer on Sept 8, 2019 21:56:49 GMT
We've been abysmal.
It's been slightly covered by some individual performances digging us out of the shit but as a squad we've been so poor. I can't believe we were still in it until 5 ours ago.
The Aussie's haven't been a great deal better, Smith aside.
Their bowling attack has been good and covered for an equally shit batting line-up.
Some serious thinking required.
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Sept 8, 2019 21:58:55 GMT
I don’t think anyone could have complained if the current score was 3-0 Australia. They’ve got a fantastic batsman in Smith but their bowling has been relentlessly good, I can’t recall an innings where we’ve bowled better than them really. This test was lost on Day 1 when we were sulking about fielding in the cold and never really improved. The Roy experiment was as hideous as many predicted and as others have said it’s now time for some “veterans” to bite the bullet. As for those asking for Morgan, he’s already cast doubt on his ability to lead the team in one day cricket because of his back, no way he’d even consider coming back for red ball now.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2019 9:50:46 GMT
Good article in the Telegraph today Australia planned for Ashes for three years – England, distracted by World Cup, prepared for just three weeks link
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Post by partickpotter on Sept 9, 2019 11:12:38 GMT
Same squad for the Oval.
As the adage goes... If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Oh, hold on...
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Post by werrington on Sept 9, 2019 11:21:13 GMT
We’ve never been in control of any of the 4 tests, always been trying to stay in them
Australia have fully deserved the victory
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2019 11:33:44 GMT
I obviously want us to turn over the Aussies to level the series, but that can’t mask what is a fairly drastic overhaul that’s required.
We have a 2 match series against New Zealand and a 4 match series against South Africa coming up in the winter neither of which will be easy, but we are where we are so new players will need to be blooded.
We need to get back to specialist players being selected in their rightful positions, and we need to give the test team far more TLC.
I would suggest something like the following:
Sibley Burns Malan Root Stokes Pope Foakes (wk) Bess Archer Broad Stone
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Post by M on Sept 9, 2019 11:41:55 GMT
We’ve never been in control of any of the 4 tests, always been trying to stay in them Australia have fully deserved the victory Although we started brilliantly. Losing the toss along with Jimmy a couple of overs in and getting them out for next to nothing in the first test really did put is in such a commanding position before that 60 odd destroyed it all. We've been second best to in my opinion an average Australia all the way through it bar that magnificent innings by Stokes. Make no mistake, Smith has pretty much done this on his own. Even in the last test we were a no ball away from probably drawing. If Jimmy hadn't got injured in the first test he probably would have balanced the two teams out for an existing finish. Shame really. Still, I'd have taken a world cup win and an Ashes defeat. We've been bang average in test for a while now. It's time to start a fresh.
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Sept 9, 2019 12:06:24 GMT
England selectors,"well most of these players have been absolute shite for 4 tests,so we Will stick with them?"
They had a chance to give some new faces a chance,3-1 or 2-2,does it matter,the Ashes have gone?
For future Ashes series at home,players need to be playing Championship cricket,not white ball cricket,so they can see who is playing well and who isn't.
But I suspect the ECB will do fuck all,just bury their heads in the sand and hope things will turn out fine.
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Post by AlliG on Sept 9, 2019 13:30:26 GMT
England selectors,"well most of these players have been absolute shite for 4 tests,so we Will stick with them?" They had a chance to give some new faces a chance,3-1 or 2-2,does it matter,the Ashes have gone? For future Ashes series at home,players need to be playing Championship cricket,not white ball cricket,so they can see who is playing well and who isn't. But I suspect the ECB will do fuck all,just bury their heads in the sand and hope things will turn out fine. The problem is that this year there have been four County Championship Division 1 games since the 16th of July! So basically no one has been playing County cricket since two weeks before this Ashes series started!
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Post by partickpotter on Sept 9, 2019 16:49:52 GMT
Good article in the Telegraph today Australia planned for Ashes for three years – England, distracted by World Cup, prepared for just three weeks linkAustralia may well have been planning for 3 years, but the truth is all they needed was three minutes planning. Meaning pick Steve Smith. Pick Cummins and Hazlewood. Make that 3 seconds.
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Post by partickpotter on Sept 9, 2019 16:53:59 GMT
England selectors,"well most of these players have been absolute shite for 4 tests,so we Will stick with them?" They had a chance to give some new faces a chance,3-1 or 2-2,does it matter,the Ashes have gone? For future Ashes series at home,players need to be playing Championship cricket,not white ball cricket,so they can see who is playing well and who isn't. But I suspect the ECB will do fuck all,just bury their heads in the sand and hope things will turn out fine. The problem is that this year there have been four County Championship Division 1 games since the 16th of July! So basically no one has been playing County cricket since two weeks before this Ashes series started! This needs looking at urgently. Back in the day when test matches had a rest day, Sunday’s was JPL day and the B&H and Gillette Cups played on a Wednesday. 3 day county championship games were worked around that (Thur, Fri & Sat?). We need to get back to this type of scheduling for county cricket.
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Post by smallthorner on Sept 9, 2019 18:13:04 GMT
England selectors,"well most of these players have been absolute shite for 4 tests,so we Will stick with them?" They had a chance to give some new faces a chance,3-1 or 2-2,does it matter,the Ashes have gone? For future Ashes series at home,players need to be playing Championship cricket,not white ball cricket,so they can see who is playing well and who isn't. But I suspect the ECB will do fuck all,just bury their heads in the sand and hope things will turn out fine. The problem is that this year there have been four County Championship Division 1 games since the 16th of July! So basically no one has been playing County cricket since two weeks before this Ashes series started! Wouldn't surprise me if Championship cricket becomes dead as a Dodo. White ball cricket is what people want to watch (other than the Ashes of course) Next step will be white ball two day internationals. 100 overs per side per day. Progress?? Who knows.?
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Post by GeneralFaye on Sept 9, 2019 18:23:50 GMT
The problem is that this year there have been four County Championship Division 1 games since the 16th of July! So basically no one has been playing County cricket since two weeks before this Ashes series started! Wouldn't surprise me if Championship cricket becomes dead as a Dodo. White ball cricket is what people want to watch (other than the Ashes of course) Next step will be white ball two day internationals. 100 overs per side per day. Progress?? Who knows.? 2 day internationals? Have you just made that up? never ever heard that given a mention.
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Post by AlliG on Sept 9, 2019 18:42:11 GMT
The problem is that this year there have been four County Championship Division 1 games since the 16th of July! So basically no one has been playing County cricket since two weeks before this Ashes series started! This needs looking at urgently. Back in the day when test matches had a rest day, Sunday’s was JPL day and the B&H and Gillette Cups played on a Wednesday. 3 day county championship games were worked around that (Thur, Fri & Sat?). We need to get back to this type of scheduling for county cricket. I hope it is a one off because of the World Cup but I am not holding my breath. We would also have escaped with a draw at Old Trafford.
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