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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Nov 18, 2020 15:23:55 GMT
Predictable. Off to court it will go...... I know I shouldn't be but I'm genuinely surprised at just how blazingly incompetent Starmer and his new henchmen are. He really is appalling on every level. Join the club. Our leaders a disgrace too. I'm with Prestwich, the establishment is fucked. We need a strong Farage party and a proper social democratic party like Denmark/Sweden. Both will win a bunch of seats and hold cunts in parliament to account.
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Post by ColonelMustard on Nov 18, 2020 15:30:01 GMT
I know I shouldn't be but I'm genuinely surprised at just how blazingly incompetent Starmer and his new henchmen are. He really is appalling on every level. Join the club. Our leaders a disgrace too. I'm with Prestwich, the establishment is fucked. We need a strong Farage party and a proper social democratic party like Denmark/Sweden. Both will win a bunch of seats and hold cunts in parliament to account. It's for this reason I'll now vote/ campaign for any single issue electoral reform party that comes along. Decent reform would split Labour and the Tories. And good riddance.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Nov 18, 2020 15:59:00 GMT
Join the club. Our leaders a disgrace too. I'm with Prestwich, the establishment is fucked. We need a strong Farage party and a proper social democratic party like Denmark/Sweden. Both will win a bunch of seats and hold cunts in parliament to account. It's for this reason I'll now vote/ campaign for any single issue electoral reform party that comes along. Decent reform would split Labour and the Tories. And good riddance. Amen brother.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Nov 18, 2020 19:22:26 GMT
The conversative party must be laughing their boots off.
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Post by Soro's Sorrows on Nov 18, 2020 19:24:26 GMT
Join the club. Our leaders a disgrace too. I'm with Prestwich, the establishment is fucked. We need a strong Farage party and a proper social democratic party like Denmark/Sweden. Both will win a bunch of seats and hold cunts in parliament to account. It's for this reason I'll now vote/ campaign for any single issue electoral reform party that comes along. Decent reform would split Labour and the Tories. And good riddance. I doubt it would to be honest. UKIP and Brexit Party have tried on the right and whilst they may have forced a bit of influence on Tory policy they have never really threatened them. A split in the Labour Party would see momentum and a few unions go with the new left but the Labour Party would remain the biggest out of the 2. The result would mean a left leaning party would never see power again. The 2 of you are passionate about your respective political views but the vast majority of people are not. In general there is not an appetite (rightly or wrongly) for radical change, for most it's more of the same but with a few tweaks. Good luck with your dreams but I don't think they will ever leave the pipe.
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Post by ColonelMustard on Nov 18, 2020 19:33:40 GMT
It's for this reason I'll now vote/ campaign for any single issue electoral reform party that comes along. Decent reform would split Labour and the Tories. And good riddance. I doubt it would to be honest. UKIP and Brexit Party have tried on the right and whilst they may have forced a bit of influence on Tory policy they have never really threatened them. A split in the Labour Party would see momentum and a few unions go with the new left but the Labour Party would remain the biggest out of the 2. The result would mean a left leaning party would never see power again. The 2 of you are passionate about your respective political views but the vast majority of people are not. In general there is not an appetite (rightly or wrongly) for radical change, for most it's more of the same but with a few tweaks. Good luck with your dreams but I don't think they will ever leave the pipe. Im more hopeful. A lot of people feel unrepresented and shut out of politics. And it would be in lib dem and green interests in the end too. Just need to follow the Farage model. UKIP was essentially an anti EU party and slowly grew support until the Tories had to offer a referendum in their manifesto. The rest is history. A single issue PR party would collect votes, maybe slowly, but gain enough votes that at some point one of the major parties offers genuine reform. It's the model to force popular change in the 2 party system. But I think it only works if it's a single issue party, otherwise you're not sending a clear enough signal. Farage was laughed at a long time. But the change was made in the end. I'm as far away from Farage politics as it's possible to be by the way, but I can say it how I see it.
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Post by Soro's Sorrows on Nov 18, 2020 19:56:55 GMT
I doubt it would to be honest. UKIP and Brexit Party have tried on the right and whilst they may have forced a bit of influence on Tory policy they have never really threatened them. A split in the Labour Party would see momentum and a few unions go with the new left but the Labour Party would remain the biggest out of the 2. The result would mean a left leaning party would never see power again. The 2 of you are passionate about your respective political views but the vast majority of people are not. In general there is not an appetite (rightly or wrongly) for radical change, for most it's more of the same but with a few tweaks. Good luck with your dreams but I don't think they will ever leave the pipe. Im more hopeful. A lot of people feel unrepresented and shut out of politics. And it would be in lib dem and green interests in the end too. Just need to follow the Farage model. UKIP was essentially an anti EU party and slowly grew support until the Tories had to offer a referendum in their manifesto. The rest is history. A single issue PR party would collect votes, maybe slowly, but gain enough votes that at some point one of the major parties offers genuine reform. It's the model to force popular change in the 2 party system. But I think it only works if it's a single issue party, otherwise you're not sending a clear enough signal. Farage was laughed at a long time. But the change was made in the end. I'm as far away from Farage politics as it's possible to be by the way, but I can say it how I see it. I admire your optimism but given that the country overwhelmingly (more than 2/3rd's) voted against PR in a referendum less than 10 years ago I really can't see where those votes will come from.
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Post by partickpotter on Nov 18, 2020 20:23:11 GMT
The conversative party must be laughing their boots off. Absolutely. After the Cummings / Symonds / Johnson soap opera became a public farce over the weekend followed by Johnson once more putting his foot in his mouth while talking about devolution plus the usual uncertainties over Brexit and Covid, you’d imagine it would be hard to find a way to force your way even close to the top of the political agenda but Starmer and Corbyn have managed it. With enemies like that, who needs friends.
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Post by ColonelMustard on Nov 18, 2020 20:34:01 GMT
Im more hopeful. A lot of people feel unrepresented and shut out of politics. And it would be in lib dem and green interests in the end too. Just need to follow the Farage model. UKIP was essentially an anti EU party and slowly grew support until the Tories had to offer a referendum in their manifesto. The rest is history. A single issue PR party would collect votes, maybe slowly, but gain enough votes that at some point one of the major parties offers genuine reform. It's the model to force popular change in the 2 party system. But I think it only works if it's a single issue party, otherwise you're not sending a clear enough signal. Farage was laughed at a long time. But the change was made in the end. I'm as far away from Farage politics as it's possible to be by the way, but I can say it how I see it. I admire your optimism but given that the country overwhelmingly (more than 2/3rd's) voted against PR in a referendum less than 10 years ago I really can't see where those votes will come from. It was a really low turn out for a few reasons. The two main parties were against fir starters. It was put on Clegg who was suddenly very unpopular for his coalition and making the deals that meant he got the referendum. Thats is already a steep hill to climb. It was also a shit version of reform. All in all barely sellable. Even still I still voted in favour. I think after a lot of chaos in both parties and a lot of people becoming more politicised, it stands a great chance. Theres a lot more talk about the failings of fptp now. Doing it this way also means one of the main parties, likely Labour is supportive of it and throws their resources behind it. I would not be surprised if Farage does his version of it. Hes renamed his party REFORM and he has previously expressed interest in electoral reform and Lords reform. I think anti lockdown stuff is just free publicity.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Nov 18, 2020 20:54:35 GMT
The conversative party must be laughing their boots off. Absolutely. After the Cummings / Symonds / Johnson soap opera became a public farce over the weekend followed by Johnson once more putting his foot in his mouth while talking about devolution plus the usual uncertainties over Brexit and Covid, you’d imagine it would be hard to find a way to force your way even close to the top of the political agenda but Starmer and Corbyn have managed it. With enemies like that, who needs friends. How the hell did this country end up with two inept and shambolic political parties. It’s laughable that we have no decent option that could lead with just good common sense.
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Post by franklin on Nov 19, 2020 11:18:39 GMT
Absolutely. After the Cummings / Symonds / Johnson soap opera became a public farce over the weekend followed by Johnson once more putting his foot in his mouth while talking about devolution plus the usual uncertainties over Brexit and Covid, you’d imagine it would be hard to find a way to force your way even close to the top of the political agenda but Starmer and Corbyn have managed it. With enemies like that, who needs friends. How the hell did this country end up with two inept and shambolic political parties. It’s laughable that we have no decent option that could lead with just good common sense. Strange one I know but the more I see the more I want an independent. Pie in the sky I know but imagine no political parties and only independent local candidates and the PM is voted in by the 600+ members of Parliament. So no party political voting all free to vote as they see fit no sides just blocking en masse legislation etc. Might work might not but it can't be any worse than what we currently have 🤷♂️
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Post by cobhamstokey on Nov 19, 2020 17:40:28 GMT
How the hell did this country end up with two inept and shambolic political parties. It’s laughable that we have no decent option that could lead with just good common sense. Strange one I know but the more I see the more I want an independent. Pie in the sky I know but imagine no political parties and only independent local candidates and the PM is voted in by the 600+ members of Parliament. So no party political voting all free to vote as they see fit no sides just blocking en masse legislation etc. Might work might not but it can't be any worse than what we currently have 🤷♂️ Well said. We need people invested in their communities that actually live there. They might care a bit more then.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Nov 25, 2020 11:21:52 GMT
So in the interests of balance the EHRC has condemned the Home Office in it's illegal treatment of the Windrush generation. And just to highlight only 7 MP's opposed the 2014 Immigration Bill.
David Lammy? Nope Margaret Hodge? Nope
Jeremy Corby? I'll leave you to guess.
As I always say, actions not words......
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Post by prestwichpotter on Nov 26, 2020 17:50:20 GMT
Crazy...
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Post by partickpotter on Dec 18, 2020 21:29:24 GMT
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Post by followyoudown on Dec 27, 2020 22:40:02 GMT
FML these people are fucking deranged
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Post by felonious on Dec 28, 2020 8:19:05 GMT
FML these people are fucking deranged Bollocks FYD George Michael is spot on
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Post by iancransonsknees on Dec 28, 2020 8:24:35 GMT
FML these people are fucking deranged The cynic in me says the statement "The Spring will come." is deliberately inflammatory. Particularly given the politics he associates himself with outside this country.
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Post by dutchstokie on Dec 28, 2020 11:13:24 GMT
FML these people are fucking deranged Laura Alvarez has been smoking the crack pipe if she spouts that old bollox
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Post by followyoudown on Dec 28, 2020 21:07:17 GMT
FML these people are fucking deranged Laura Alvarez has been smoking the crack pipe if she spouts that old bollox Jeremy has been known to log on and tweet for Laura and even tweet from that account
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Post by salopstick on Dec 28, 2020 21:44:21 GMT
I know I’ll support a remain campaign that I don’t believe in. Then I’ll try and negotiate a brexit deal to put to the British people but campaign against that
A right vote winner
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Feb 4, 2021 15:32:58 GMT
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Post by prestwichpotter on Feb 4, 2021 15:50:51 GMT
I'm certainly not defending Piers Corbyn, but if comparing something to the holocaust is a crime anyone on this board that's ever discussed the 19845/85 season is fucked, myself included
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Feb 4, 2021 16:07:46 GMT
I'm certainly not defending Piers Corbyn, but if comparing something to the holocaust is a crime anyone on this board that's ever discussed the 19845/85 season is fucked, myself included Are you from the future?🤔
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Post by partickpotter on Jan 24, 2022 9:34:26 GMT
Do you think it was wise of Corbyn to conflate the deaths of the men, women and children slaughtered in the refugee camps of Sabra and Shatilla with those of Black September terrorists in Paris? I think there’s several examples of Corby’s doing unwise things, that’s never ever being the issue for me. The issue has always been the ridiculous anti-semitism “crisis” manufactured by his opponents in the media and his own party to undermine him and a government they didn’t want on power. And I would stand by a politician from whatever party in the same position. Anyway back to the topic in hand happy to debate Corbyn on the Corbyn thread as always…….. Ok. Why do you think Corbyn was prone to “unwise things”?
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jan 24, 2022 9:44:09 GMT
I think there’s several examples of Corby’s doing unwise things, that’s never ever being the issue for me. The issue has always been the ridiculous anti-semitism “crisis” manufactured by his opponents in the media and his own party to undermine him and a government they didn’t want on power. And I would stand by a politician from whatever party in the same position. Anyway back to the topic in hand happy to debate Corbyn on the Corbyn thread as always…….. Ok. Why do you think Corbyn was prone to “unwise things”? I didn't say he was prone to unwise things, I said there are several examples of things he has done that are in my opinion unwise. Have you, I know I have in my lifetime?
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Post by cobhamstokey on Jan 24, 2022 9:56:50 GMT
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Post by partickpotter on Jan 24, 2022 12:20:52 GMT
This is a good example of what motivates Corbyn’s politics. He is on the side of the oppressed. The oppressed as far as he is concerned are those people being oppressed by the West, so Catholics in Ireland qualify as long standing victims of British imperialism likewise the Palestinians under the yolk of the lackies of America, Israel. Now, two things come from this. One, he has a completely uncritical eye on the “oppressed” which is why he is unable to distinguish between victims of oppression and instigators of violence within the oppressed. And two, his narrow definition of oppresssion, ie something caused by the West / America / British Imperialism / Capitalism, means he ignores the oppression caused by other people particularly Russia and China and oppressors within oppressed peoples like Hamas. In other words, Jeremy Corbyn’s politics were and have ever been the naive, selective, prejudiced protest politics of adolescent students. Fair enough when you are a self indulgent back bencher. More of a problem when you hold any significant office and your inconsistencies get more attention.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jan 24, 2022 12:43:35 GMT
This is a good example of what motivates Corbyn’s politics. He is on the side of the oppressed. The oppressed as far as he is concerned are those people being oppressed by the West, so Catholics in Ireland qualify as long standing victims of British imperialism likewise the Palestinians under the yolk of the lackies of America, Israel. Now, two things come from this. One, he has a completely uncritical eye on the “oppressed” which is why he is unable to distinguish between victims of oppression and instigators of violence within the oppressed. And two, his narrow definition of oppresssion, ie something caused by the West / America / British Imperialism / Capitalism, means he ignores the oppression caused by other people particularly Russia and China and oppressors within oppressed peoples like Hamas. In other words, Jeremy Corbyn’s politics were and have ever been the naive, selective, prejudiced protest politics of adolescent students. Fair enough when you are a self indulgent back bencher. More of a problem when you hold any significant office and your inconsistencies get more attention. Our recent governments have been doing a really good job of being on the side of the oppressed in recent years in the countries you mention. On our knees begging for a slice of the pie from China and allowing Russian oligarch's to take over the City of London to launder their dirty cash........
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Post by partickpotter on Jan 24, 2022 13:34:03 GMT
This is a good example of what motivates Corbyn’s politics. He is on the side of the oppressed. The oppressed as far as he is concerned are those people being oppressed by the West, so Catholics in Ireland qualify as long standing victims of British imperialism likewise the Palestinians under the yolk of the lackies of America, Israel. Now, two things come from this. One, he has a completely uncritical eye on the “oppressed” which is why he is unable to distinguish between victims of oppression and instigators of violence within the oppressed. And two, his narrow definition of oppresssion, ie something caused by the West / America / British Imperialism / Capitalism, means he ignores the oppression caused by other people particularly Russia and China and oppressors within oppressed peoples like Hamas. In other words, Jeremy Corbyn’s politics were and have ever been the naive, selective, prejudiced protest politics of adolescent students. Fair enough when you are a self indulgent back bencher. More of a problem when you hold any significant office and your inconsistencies get more attention. Our recent governments have been doing a really good job of being on the side of the oppressed in recent years in the countries you mention. On our knees begging for a slice of the pie from China and allowing Russian oligarch's to take over the City of London to launder their dirty cash........ Maybe you could raise that on the appropriate thread. This thread is about Jeremy Corbyn. I thought you were a stickler for that sort of thing.
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