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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2020 23:12:22 GMT
It will go round and round like it always does. It's time for a split, won't happen though..... Like one party led by Corbyn and one by Starmer? They’d never win an election if that happened. Forget Corbyn, the whole "cult of Corbyn" "Corbynista" slurs are largely irrelevant. Who the leader would be I've not even given it any thought truth be told. A proper democratic socialist party with a massive green agenda and a push for PR, and leave Labour to do their thing under Starmer. It won't happen as I say, but it should. Throw in Farage's new party and at least things might get a bit interesting. You don't have to agree with the policies in any way shape or form but at least it might inject a bit of life into our rotting corpse of a system.......
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Post by followyoudown on Nov 17, 2020 23:16:32 GMT
They aren't recommendations in the EHRC they are legal requirements they have to do fail and enforcement notices and penalties follow. And you pick and choose which ones you support because it's not really about racism or prejudice for you is it. The Labour Party clearly realised they'd made the same mistake tonight. Really show me where I have picked or chosen the findings I support ? You meanwhile spent months and years rubbishing Berger, the whistleblowers on Panaroma and pretty much everyone vindicated by this report.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Nov 17, 2020 23:29:13 GMT
And you pick and choose which ones you support because it's not really about racism or prejudice for you is it. The Labour Party clearly realised they'd made the same mistake tonight. Really show me where I have picked or chosen the findings I support ? You meanwhile spent months and years rubbishing Berger, the whistleblowers on Panaroma and pretty much everyone vindicated by this report. The report itself explicitly states that his comments are not a disciplinary matter. Page 27 of the report says: “Article 10 [of the Human Rights Act, under which the EHRC works] will protect Labour party members who, for example … express their opinions on internal party matters, such as the scale of antisemitism within the party, based on their own experience and within the law.” The only guilty person here is Starmer, for the political interference specifically condemned in the report. You were happy to row in with this because the vast, vast, majority don't give a flying fuck about what the report actually said or indeed any form of racism. The other thing the right are spinning is complete bollocks also. The whip was automatically restored following todays hearing, to remove it would once again be a clear breach of the report but no doubt you'll ignore that bit.
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Post by flea79 on Nov 18, 2020 0:18:19 GMT
Just been having a browse through Twitter and the anti Semitic filth being thrown out by people who claim to stand under the banner of labour and Corbyn is truly dreadful, it’s a very vocal minority, if Corbyn came out and distances himself from these Comments it might go some way to helping his situation, all I can presume is some very stupid immature people really need help
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Post by crapslinger on Nov 18, 2020 7:18:11 GMT
It will go round and round like it always does. It's time for a split, won't happen though..... Like one party led by Corbyn and one by Starmer? They’d never win an election if that happened. What these individuals should do is call themselves what they really are communists masquerading as" Labour Party " supporters.
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Post by partickpotter on Nov 18, 2020 7:56:54 GMT
Like one party led by Corbyn and one by Starmer? They’d never win an election if that happened. Forget Corbyn, the whole "cult of Corbyn" "Corbynista" slurs are largely irrelevant. Who the leader would be I've not even given it any thought truth be told. A proper democratic socialist party with a massive green agenda and a push for PR, and leave Labour to do their thing under Starmer. It won't happen as I say, but it should. Throw in Farage's new party and at least things might get a bit interesting. You don't have to agree with the policies in any way shape or form but at least it might inject a bit of life into our rotting corpse of a system....... Be careful what you wish for. Not saying this would happen, but having recently read Ian Kershaw’s biography of Adolf Hitler it’s interesting to note how his rise to power came on the back of a combination of populism, referenda, and a PR system of voting not to mention what might reasonably be called a rotting corpse of the existing political system of that time. (Note - by way of cleansing the palate, my current reading is Gandhi’s autobiography written in the 1920s. Which is hard going but fascinating. An astonishing man.)
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Nov 18, 2020 8:01:26 GMT
Well done on getting through Kershaw's Hitler biog! Probably the best one out there, but there's a lot of it!
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Post by dutchstokie on Nov 18, 2020 8:21:08 GMT
Pipe down Steptoe !!!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2020 8:56:49 GMT
Forget Corbyn, the whole "cult of Corbyn" "Corbynista" slurs are largely irrelevant. Who the leader would be I've not even given it any thought truth be told. A proper democratic socialist party with a massive green agenda and a push for PR, and leave Labour to do their thing under Starmer. It won't happen as I say, but it should. Throw in Farage's new party and at least things might get a bit interesting. You don't have to agree with the policies in any way shape or form but at least it might inject a bit of life into our rotting corpse of a system....... Be careful what you wish for. Not saying this would happen, but having recently read Ian Kershaw’s biography of Adolf Hitler it’s interesting to note how his rise to power came on the back of a combination of populism, referenda, and a PR system of voting not to mention what might reasonably be called a rotting corpse of the existing political system of that time. (Note - by way of cleansing the palate, my current reading is Gandhi’s autobiography written in the 1920s. Which is hard going but fascinating. An astonishing man.) In Italy it's a joke currently, in Germany it works particularly well at this time. There's different forms of PR and that would need to be discussed but the current system is broken, wait until the boundary changes come in as well that's the Tories in power indefinitely. I have read Kershaw and to be honest it's one of those books I'd like to read again when I get chance, need to get through "The Unforgiven: Missionaries or Mercenaries? The Untold Story of the Rebel West Indian Cricketers Who Toured Apartheid South Africa" first which is a mighty fine read I have to say.....
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2020 9:00:41 GMT
Just been having a browse through Twitter and the anti Semitic filth being thrown out by people who claim to stand under the banner of labour and Corbyn is truly dreadful, it’s a very vocal minority, if Corbyn came out and distances himself from these Comments it might go some way to helping his situation, all I can presume is some very stupid immature people really need help Twitter is full of cranks, for every bit of filth from so-called Corbyn supporters, there's filth from people hiding behind Brexit banners, ANTIFA banners, BLM banners, Tommy Robinson banners, Tory banners etc. If any of these individuals are proven to be part of any organisation they should be dealt with accordingly, it would also help if Twitter did their job properly and banned some of these idiots it has to be said.....
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2020 9:18:07 GMT
And you pick and choose which ones you support because it's not really about racism or prejudice for you is it. The Labour Party clearly realised they'd made the same mistake tonight. Really show me where I have picked or chosen the findings I support ? You meanwhile spent months and years rubbishing Berger, the whistleblowers on Panaroma and pretty much everyone vindicated by this report. Some of the whistleblowers in question are part of the leaked report that appears to show them working against the party during the election campaign, this will come out in Forde's findings over the next 6 weeks. Some are part of McNicol's team that sat on antisemitism cases when they should have been acting swiftly. For all the emotion around Berger, the facts are that she was voted in and endorsed by a CLP that have many Jewish members, I know a couple of them personally. The vote of no confidence was around her refusal to say whether she wanted a Labour win at the election, which is pretty important if you're a member pounding the streets, knocking on doors and delivering leaflets. And the disgraceful on line abuse was proven to be pretty much all by people in far right organisations or with far right views. The one Labour Party member in question quit before he could be sanctioned. There was an interview on LBC where she talked about this in the present tense even though it all preceded Corbyn's leadership of the party.
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Post by flea79 on Nov 18, 2020 9:18:35 GMT
Just been having a browse through Twitter and the anti Semitic filth being thrown out by people who claim to stand under the banner of labour and Corbyn is truly dreadful, it’s a very vocal minority, if Corbyn came out and distances himself from these Comments it might go some way to helping his situation, all I can presume is some very stupid immature people really need help Twitter is full of cranks, for every bit of filth from so-called Corbyn supporters, there's filth from people hiding behind Brexit banners, ANTIFA banners, BLM banners, Tommy Robinson banners, Tory banners etc. If any of these individuals are proven to be part of any organisation they should be dealt with accordingly, it would also help if Twitter did their job properly and banned some of these idiots it has to be said..... no your right some of the absolute filth that is peddled on that platform by people of all political persuasions is dreadful, it does seem that a number of nutters have stood behind Corbyn and are using him as an excuse to spread anti semitic rubbish, saw a post last night with an image of starmer on strings being controlled by jewish folk, the mind boggles as i said before if we cant get on with each other based on colour, race, sexuality etc what chance would we have if an alien race visited us
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Post by wagsastokie on Nov 18, 2020 10:02:01 GMT
"The process is all wrong, Corbyn must address it" "We don't like the process, I'm quitting" The gutless shit stirring wankers have no intention of resigning
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Post by sheikhmomo on Nov 18, 2020 11:07:22 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2020 11:15:15 GMT
Predictable. Another few months of infighting.....
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Post by sheikhmomo on Nov 18, 2020 11:19:42 GMT
Predictable. Off to court it will go...... I know I shouldn't be but I'm genuinely surprised at just how blazingly incompetent Starmer and his new henchmen are. He really is appalling on every level.
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Post by partickpotter on Nov 18, 2020 11:31:34 GMT
Predictable. Off to court it will go...... I know I shouldn't be but I'm genuinely surprised at just how blazingly incompetent Starmer and his new henchmen are. He really is appalling on every level. In fairness he is between a rock and a hard place trying to keep two opposing sides happy. Yesterday Corbyn fans were happy, his critics were unhappy. Today, Corbyn fans are unhappy. Unfortunately that doesn’t necessarily mean Corby critics are happy, possibly just less unhappy. He is discovering a painful reality, as his predecessor did on his Brexit stance (and as Johnson knows with lockdown or no lockdown), sitting on a fence isn’t comfortable. But who said being a leader is easy.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Nov 18, 2020 11:38:10 GMT
I know I shouldn't be but I'm genuinely surprised at just how blazingly incompetent Starmer and his new henchmen are. He really is appalling on every level. In fairness he is between a rock and a hard place trying to keep two opposing sides happy. Yesterday Corbyn fans were happy, his critics were unhappy. Today, Corbyn fans are unhappy. Unfortunately that doesn’t necessarily mean Corby critics are happy, possibly just less unhappy. He is discovering a painful reality, as his predecessor did on his Brexit stance (and as Johnson knows with lockdown or no lockdown), sitting on a fence isn’t comfortable. But who said being a leader is easy. The 'Great Prosecutor' has got himself in a position whereby the Party had no choice but to lift the suspension on Corbyn because no offence had taken place and the suspension was almost certainly in breach of 'Political interference' forbidden in the EHRC report, to a position where he is a made a purely politically motivated decision and is now 100% in breach of Political interference forbidden in the EHRC report. I wouldn't rule out the courts getting involved at all.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Nov 18, 2020 11:51:22 GMT
Like one party led by Corbyn and one by Starmer? They’d never win an election if that happened. Forget Corbyn, the whole "cult of Corbyn" "Corbynista" slurs are largely irrelevant. Who the leader would be I've not even given it any thought truth be told. A proper democratic socialist party with a massive green agenda and a push for PR, and leave Labour to do their thing under Starmer. It won't happen as I say, but it should. Throw in Farage's new party and at least things might get a bit interesting. You don't have to agree with the policies in any way shape or form but at least it might inject a bit of life into our rotting corpse of a system....... Could not agree more.
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Post by partickpotter on Nov 18, 2020 11:55:51 GMT
In fairness he is between a rock and a hard place trying to keep two opposing sides happy. Yesterday Corbyn fans were happy, his critics were unhappy. Today, Corbyn fans are unhappy. Unfortunately that doesn’t necessarily mean Corby critics are happy, possibly just less unhappy. He is discovering a painful reality, as his predecessor did on his Brexit stance (and as Johnson knows with lockdown or no lockdown), sitting on a fence isn’t comfortable. But who said being a leader is easy. The 'Great Prosecutor' has got himself in a position whereby the Party had no choice but to lift the suspension on Corbyn because no offence had taken place and the suspension was almost certainly in breach of 'Political interference' forbidden in the EHRC report, to a position where he is a made a purely politically motivated decision and is now 100% in breach of Political interference forbidden in the EHRC report. I wouldn't rule out the courts getting involved at all. He certainly made an arse of the suspension. He knows anti-semitism is a problem for Labour (regardless of how much is real or perception). And he was looking for a quick fix. The problem with quick fixes is they can come unstuck pretty quickly as he has discovered leaving you in a worse position than before, which is where he is now. Of course, Corbyn played his part too. All he had to do was keep his mouth shut when the EHRC report was published. To at least say something neutral like he would provide what help he could to the party in addressing the recommendations. That would have been what a good party man would have done. Instead he chose to make it about him, which put Starmer in a difficult position. A position Starmer subsequently made more difficult. So, pretty poor from Starmer. And pretty poor from Corbyn.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2020 12:10:02 GMT
The 'Great Prosecutor' has got himself in a position whereby the Party had no choice but to lift the suspension on Corbyn because no offence had taken place and the suspension was almost certainly in breach of 'Political interference' forbidden in the EHRC report, to a position where he is a made a purely politically motivated decision and is now 100% in breach of Political interference forbidden in the EHRC report. I wouldn't rule out the courts getting involved at all. He certainly made an arse of the suspension. He knows anti-semitism is a problem for Labour (regardless of how much is real or perception). And he was looking for a quick fix. The problem with quick fixes is they can come unstuck pretty quickly as he has discovered leaving you in a worse position than before, which is where he is now. Of course, Corbyn played his part too. All he had to do was keep his mouth shut when the EHRC report was published. To at least say something neutral like he would provide what help he could to the party in addressing the recommendations. That would have been what a good party man would have done. Instead he chose to make it about him, which put Starmer in a difficult position. A position Starmer subsequently made more difficult. So, pretty poor from Starmer. And pretty poor from Corbyn. And meanwhile it's been several days since the Islamophobia claims in the party and Starmer himself has not made a statement to even acknowledge them as it stands. As I've said many times your either in the business of tackling racism in all forms or you're not.......
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Post by sheikhmomo on Nov 18, 2020 12:29:37 GMT
The 'Great Prosecutor' has got himself in a position whereby the Party had no choice but to lift the suspension on Corbyn because no offence had taken place and the suspension was almost certainly in breach of 'Political interference' forbidden in the EHRC report, to a position where he is a made a purely politically motivated decision and is now 100% in breach of Political interference forbidden in the EHRC report. I wouldn't rule out the courts getting involved at all. He certainly made an arse of the suspension. He knows anti-semitism is a problem for Labour (regardless of how much is real or perception). And he was looking for a quick fix. The problem with quick fixes is they can come unstuck pretty quickly as he has discovered leaving you in a worse position than before, which is where he is now. Of course, Corbyn played his part too. All he had to do was keep his mouth shut when the EHRC report was published. To at least say something neutral like he would provide what help he could to the party in addressing the recommendations. That would have been what a good party man would have done. Instead he chose to make it about him, which put Starmer in a difficult position. A position Starmer subsequently made more difficult. So, pretty poor from Starmer. And pretty poor from Corbyn. Starmer is leader now though and to bring the Labour Party rules process into disrepute and manage to appease no one on either side of this issue is quite the achievement!
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Post by followyoudown on Nov 18, 2020 12:57:03 GMT
Really show me where I have picked or chosen the findings I support ? You meanwhile spent months and years rubbishing Berger, the whistleblowers on Panaroma and pretty much everyone vindicated by this report. Some of the whistleblowers in question are part of the leaked report that appears to show them working against the party during the election campaign, this will come out in Forde's findings over the next 6 weeks. Some are part of McNicol's team that sat on antisemitism cases when they should have been acting swiftly. For all the emotion around Berger, the facts are that she was voted in and endorsed by a CLP that have many Jewish members, I know a couple of them personally. The vote of no confidence was around her refusal to say whether she wanted a Labour win at the election, which is pretty important if you're a member pounding the streets, knocking on doors and delivering leaflets. And the disgraceful on line abuse was proven to be pretty much all by people in far right organisations or with far right views. The one Labour Party member in question quit before he could be sanctioned. There was an interview on LBC where she talked about this in the present tense even though it all preceded Corbyn's leadership of the party. The "emotion" around Berger thats one way of describing death threats, police protection, being told to not travel on public transport on your own but you and sheiky aren't really capable of showing empathy for her as a human being even...... As for the leaked report its laughable, all that money that will come in fines trying to defend 1 man through the creation of an exgarrated fairytake narrative.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2020 13:04:29 GMT
Some of the whistleblowers in question are part of the leaked report that appears to show them working against the party during the election campaign, this will come out in Forde's findings over the next 6 weeks. Some are part of McNicol's team that sat on antisemitism cases when they should have been acting swiftly. For all the emotion around Berger, the facts are that she was voted in and endorsed by a CLP that have many Jewish members, I know a couple of them personally. The vote of no confidence was around her refusal to say whether she wanted a Labour win at the election, which is pretty important if you're a member pounding the streets, knocking on doors and delivering leaflets. And the disgraceful on line abuse was proven to be pretty much all by people in far right organisations or with far right views. The one Labour Party member in question quit before he could be sanctioned. There was an interview on LBC where she talked about this in the present tense even though it all preceded Corbyn's leadership of the party. The "emotion" around Berger thats one way of describing death threats, police protection, being told to not travel on public transport on your own but you and sheiky aren't really capable of showing empathy for her as a human being even...... As for the leaked report its laughable, all that money that will come in fines trying to defend 1 man through the creation of an exgarrated fairytake narrative. I have complete empathy with the treatment of Berger which was despicable, and to repeat the death threats were largely at the hands of people on social media who were right wing apart from one ex-Labour member who could not be disciplined for that reason but was charged by the police and rightly so. The facts are important. You love a bit of hyperbole, your second sentence is again just waffle though. It's in the hands of the Forde Inquiry so let's wait and see.....
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Post by dutchstokie on Nov 18, 2020 13:16:43 GMT
Predictable. Another few months of infighting..... Might it be an idea for the leader of the opposition to stop fuckin tweeting, get off his phone, do some fuckin work and tackle the issues at hand? Just an idea !
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Post by wagsastokie on Nov 18, 2020 14:18:39 GMT
Predictable. Another few months of infighting..... Might it be an idea for the leader of the opposition to stop fuckin tweeting, get off his phone, do some fuckin work and tackle the issues at hand? Just an idea ! But that would involve the smarmy bastard getting off the fence and committing to something
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2020 14:23:25 GMT
Steven Reed sent on the BBC Politics programme to reiterate that Starmer was right to withhold the whip against Corbyn. Just in case the name rang a bell.....
It's all about antisemitism though honest......
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2020 14:32:17 GMT
This sums it up fairly well, Corbyn (and Sanders) were their own worst enemies in trying to appease from the off.....
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Post by ColonelMustard on Nov 18, 2020 15:07:02 GMT
Some of the whistleblowers in question are part of the leaked report that appears to show them working against the party during the election campaign, this will come out in Forde's findings over the next 6 weeks. Some are part of McNicol's team that sat on antisemitism cases when they should have been acting swiftly. For all the emotion around Berger, the facts are that she was voted in and endorsed by a CLP that have many Jewish members, I know a couple of them personally. The vote of no confidence was around her refusal to say whether she wanted a Labour win at the election, which is pretty important if you're a member pounding the streets, knocking on doors and delivering leaflets. And the disgraceful on line abuse was proven to be pretty much all by people in far right organisations or with far right views. The one Labour Party member in question quit before he could be sanctioned. There was an interview on LBC where she talked about this in the present tense even though it all preceded Corbyn's leadership of the party. The "emotion" around Berger thats one way of describing death threats, police protection, being told to not travel on public transport on your own but you and sheiky aren't really capable of showing empathy for her as a human being even...... As for the leaked report its laughable, all that money that will come in fines trying to defend 1 man through the creation of an exgarrated fairytake narrative. She was in Corbyns first cross party shadow cabinet. Doing quite nicely. She decoded to very publicly resign for maximum exposure. She then got an armed guard to walk across a bridge to conference in front of cameras. Any anti semitic abuse she received is obviously wrong. But the idea her life was in danger was in her head. No harm has been done to any Jewish MP by Labout members. She should have empathise with Corbyn and Abbott who have abuse and death threats regularly. Meanwhile Jo Cox is dead at the hands of a far righter.
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Post by ColonelMustard on Nov 18, 2020 15:15:06 GMT
This sums it up fairly well, Corbyn (and Sanders) were their own worst enemies in trying to appease from the off..... The whole Joe Rogan episode with Greenwald is excellent. This section he makes the point about centrist journalists assuming abuse only comes from the extremes because they dont provoke the ire of the centre should be shown in every journalist school. Horseshoe theory is one of the dumbest theories I've ever come across and it's all prevalent.
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