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Post by partickpotter on Nov 17, 2020 19:19:14 GMT
It’s worth looking again at Corbyn’s statement again... Particularly that opening bit.. This clearly states that the clarification being used to justify his suspension was given to Labour at the time of his suspension. Or have I got this wrong?
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Post by ColonelMustard on Nov 17, 2020 19:23:10 GMT
It’s worth looking again at Corbyn’s statement again... Particularly that opening bit.. This clearly states that the clarification being used to justify his suspension was given to Labour at the time of his suspension. Or have I got this wrong? No you are right. That's what Prestwich pointed out. It's a shit show from Evan's, and hes landed Starmer right in it. Corbyn has actually played it well. Total silence and just restated the same case today. Edit prestwich
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Post by ColonelMustard on Nov 17, 2020 19:24:49 GMT
I'm sure the media will avoid the nuance as they have for 5 years on this issue and paint it as a Corbyn climb down. Where it's quite the opposite.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2020 19:35:09 GMT
I'm sure the media will avoid the nuance as they have for 5 years on this issue and paint it as a Corbyn climb down. Where it's quite the opposite. I’ve just nipped to the supermarket and the chair of the CAS has already been on LBC demanding more from Starmer. At 19:30 it’s the BOD on Times Radio giving the same speel no doubt. The likes of Pollard and the Jewish Chronicle have already been on Twitter giving a spin on the actual events. As I said earlier appeasement was never going to work with these organisations and individuals. They want more, they want blood. This will be a nightmare for Starmer, and that’s before you even touch on the Islamophobia issue.....
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Post by RedandWhite90 on Nov 17, 2020 19:45:56 GMT
Well it was a wonderful 3 weeks. 🙄
He really is an odious individual. It's always about him, always has been. Sincere apology? Acknowledgement of his own failure? Reflection on his abysmal leadership? Not a word.
Whats worse is he doesn't even know the pain and damage he causes. He doesn't need reinstating he needs educating.
And sure enough, as much as fleet street falls in line behind No. 10 his own sycophantic followers will welcome him back with open arms.
Time will tell on how much he 'fully supports Kier Starmer's decision to accept all the EHRC recommendations' but when looking to rid the party of anti semitism root and branch it's probably wise to keep the fertiliser away too.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2020 19:47:12 GMT
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Post by ColonelMustard on Nov 17, 2020 19:51:40 GMT
I'm sure the media will avoid the nuance as they have for 5 years on this issue and paint it as a Corbyn climb down. Where it's quite the opposite. I’ve just nipped to the supermarket and the chair of the CAS has already been on LBC demanding more from Starmer. At 19:30 it’s the BOD on Times Radio giving the same speel no doubt. The likes of Pollard and the Jewish Chronicle have already been on Twitter giving a spin on the actual events. As I said earlier appeasement was never going to work with these organisations and individuals. They want more, they want blood. This will be a nightmare for Starmer, and that’s before you even touch on the Islamophobia issue..... It was a nightmare for Corbyn. It's a minefield with very hostile elements and a genuine issue that causes fear. And Starmer knew it was for Corbyn but decided to remove all recourse and nuance and throw him under the bus with no process. I've got little sympathy with him. But as you state, nothing will ever be enough. There were many on the left that said this early on, when it was Livingstone, Walker and Williamson. It was said he needed to face it down immediately or they would keep coming until they got him. But he actually intervened to speed up their expulsions. It's hard to play such an emotive issue right. But some of these people are extreme nationalists, and behind them are lots of people scared and angry from the crisis. Starmers problem now. A sober written history will be much kinder to Corbyn than the media has been.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Nov 17, 2020 19:53:33 GMT
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Nov 17, 2020 19:55:59 GMT
I’ve just nipped to the supermarket and the chair of the CAS has already been on LBC demanding more from Starmer. At 19:30 it’s the BOD on Times Radio giving the same speel no doubt. The likes of Pollard and the Jewish Chronicle have already been on Twitter giving a spin on the actual events. As I said earlier appeasement was never going to work with these organisations and individuals. They want more, they want blood. This will be a nightmare for Starmer, and that’s before you even touch on the Islamophobia issue..... It was a nightmare for Corbyn. It's a minefield with very hostile elements and a genuine issue that causes fear. And Starmer knew it was for Corbyn but decided to remove all recourse and nuance and throw him under the bus with no process. I've got little sympathy with him. But as you state, nothing will ever be enough. There were many on the left that said this early on, when it was Livingstone, Walker and Williamson. It was said he needed to face it down immediately or they would keep coming until they got him. But he actually intervened to speed up their expulsions. It's hard to play such an emotive issue right. But some of these people are extreme nationalists, and behind them are lots of people scared and angry from the crisis. Starmers problem now. A sober written history will be much kinder to Corbyn than the media has been. Now you know how Trump feels. The Lamestream media is a cunt once you get on the wrong side of it. The difference is, Trump managed to beat the LM in 2016. Corbyn got totally owned by it. That said, JC is a pretty disturbing character and I think its understandable that most Brits didn't want him anywhere near downing Street 😊
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2020 19:56:43 GMT
Well it was a wonderful 3 weeks. 🙄 He really is an odious individual. It's always about him, always has been. Sincere apology? Acknowledgement of his own failure? Reflection on his abysmal leadership? Not a word. Whats worse is he doesn't even know the pain and damage he causes. He doesn't need reinstating he needs educating. And sure enough, as much as fleet street falls in line behind No. 10 his own sycophantic followers will welcome him back with open arms. Time will tell on how much he 'fully supports Kier Starmer's decision to accept all the EHRC recommendations' but when looking to rid the party of anti semitism root and branch it's probably wise to keep the fertiliser away too. His case has been heard by a panel set up specifically to look at antisemitism, and rightly there is no case for him to answer with regards his original statement as per the EHRC guidelines. It might not be convenient for the party or for Starmer who so far has had an easy ride from the press and been allowed to control the narrative, I suspect that won’t be the case any longer. But this is what happens when you politicise racism instead of tackling it root and branch, it drags on and the vultures remain circling.......
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2020 20:00:58 GMT
It was a nightmare for Corbyn. It's a minefield with very hostile elements and a genuine issue that causes fear. And Starmer knew it was for Corbyn but decided to remove all recourse and nuance and throw him under the bus with no process. I've got little sympathy with him. But as you state, nothing will ever be enough. There were many on the left that said this early on, when it was Livingstone, Walker and Williamson. It was said he needed to face it down immediately or they would keep coming until they got him. But he actually intervened to speed up their expulsions. It's hard to play such an emotive issue right. But some of these people are extreme nationalists, and behind them are lots of people scared and angry from the crisis. Starmers problem now. A sober written history will be much kinder to Corbyn than the media has been. Now you know how Trump feels. The Lamestream media is a cunt once you get on the wrong side of it. The difference is, Trump managed to beat the LM in 2016. Corbyn got totally owned by it. That said, JC is a pretty disturbing character and I think its understandable that most Brits didn't want him anywhere near downing Street 😊 It’s not and shouldn’t be about his politics though. You could think he’s the worst politician in the history of parliament, but the whole situation has been pure McCarthyism. And whilst the media jumped all over him from day one and assassinated his character, it was the duplicitous snakes in his own party that caused the main issues. The same ones preaching unity and asking members to rally around the new leader. Well fuck ‘em I say......
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Post by ColonelMustard on Nov 17, 2020 20:08:03 GMT
It was a nightmare for Corbyn. It's a minefield with very hostile elements and a genuine issue that causes fear. And Starmer knew it was for Corbyn but decided to remove all recourse and nuance and throw him under the bus with no process. I've got little sympathy with him. But as you state, nothing will ever be enough. There were many on the left that said this early on, when it was Livingstone, Walker and Williamson. It was said he needed to face it down immediately or they would keep coming until they got him. But he actually intervened to speed up their expulsions. It's hard to play such an emotive issue right. But some of these people are extreme nationalists, and behind them are lots of people scared and angry from the crisis. Starmers problem now. A sober written history will be much kinder to Corbyn than the media has been. Now you know how Trump feels. The Lamestream media is a cunt once you get on the wrong side of it. The difference is, Trump managed to beat the LM in 2016. Corbyn got totally owned by it. That said, JC is a pretty disturbing character and I think its understandable that most Brits didn't want him anywhere near downing Street 😊 No disagreement from me that the media were anti Trump. The US media have been a disgrace and not fit for purpose. So has he. Trump did have Fox very much on his side. Which is massive with his base. And the whole rebublican party united behind him. Also massive. As for Corbyn being disturbing. I dont know him that well, but having been his constituent for nigh on 30 years and neighbour and nodding acquaintance for much of that, the media portrayal is about as opposite to everything I've experienced and heard from others about him as it's possible to be. He is a very popular constituency MP and a well intentioned and likeable chap. Prior to him being leader, even people who didn't like him would start with "hes a lovely chap but..." That's not to say I think he was a pgood leader or that his activist/ advocacy past was ever going to sit well with much of the UK.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Nov 17, 2020 20:12:23 GMT
Now you know how Trump feels. The Lamestream media is a cunt once you get on the wrong side of it. The difference is, Trump managed to beat the LM in 2016. Corbyn got totally owned by it. That said, JC is a pretty disturbing character and I think its understandable that most Brits didn't want him anywhere near downing Street 😊 No disagreement from me that the media were anti Trump. The US media have been a disgrace and not fit for purpose. So has he. Trump did have Fox very much on his side. Which is massive with his base. And the whole rebublican party united behind him. Also massive. As for Corbyn being disturbing. I dont know him that well, but having been his constituent for nigh on 30 years and neighbour and nodding acquaintance for much of that, the media portrayal is about as opposite to everything I've experienced and heard from others about him as it's possible to be. He is a very popular constituency MP and a well intentioned and likeable chap. Prior to him being leader, even people who didn't like him would start with "hes a lovely chap but..." That's not to say I think he was a pgood leader or that his activist/ advocacy past was ever going to sit well with much of the UK. Fair points. I wish the media would just back the fuck out and go back to facts and evidence. I think their scare mongering around brexit and covid has been tragic too but that's probably for a different thread. People are sick of the establishment and I guess both Trump and Corbyn have that in common.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2020 20:18:29 GMT
"The process is all wrong, Corbyn must address it"
"We don't like the process, I'm quitting"
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2020 20:33:27 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2020 20:36:09 GMT
He wants to implement an independent system by the New Year, Corbyn was suspended immediately after consulting with by David Evans and by passing the current process. He's making it up as he goes along......
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Post by sheikhmomo on Nov 17, 2020 20:48:00 GMT
Ah the great forensic prosecutor twisting in the wind, grasping for a principle. The bloke is a complete fucking joke.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Nov 17, 2020 20:50:22 GMT
Well it was a wonderful 3 weeks. 🙄 He really is an odious individual. It's always about him, always has been. Sincere apology? Acknowledgement of his own failure? Reflection on his abysmal leadership? Not a word. Whats worse is he doesn't even know the pain and damage he causes. He doesn't need reinstating he needs educating. And sure enough, as much as fleet street falls in line behind No. 10 his own sycophantic followers will welcome him back with open arms. Time will tell on how much he 'fully supports Kier Starmer's decision to accept all the EHRC recommendations' but when looking to rid the party of anti semitism root and branch it's probably wise to keep the fertiliser away too. You clearly reject the EHRC recommendations if you want him kicked out.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2020 20:58:04 GMT
Ah the great forensic prosecutor twisting in the wind, grasping for a principle. The bloke is a complete fucking joke. His next trick will be to withhold the whip. He'll have already been on the phone to the BOD about it.....
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Post by ColonelMustard on Nov 17, 2020 21:10:00 GMT
Ah the great forensic prosecutor twisting in the wind, grasping for a principle. The bloke is a complete fucking joke. His next trick will be to withhold the whip. He'll have already been on the phone to the BOD about it..... To he fair to him, that statement is the most interesting thing I've ever seen him do. I mean not interesting in a funny or exciting way, obviously. More in a "fucking hell, is that a parody account" sort of way.
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Post by ColonelMustard on Nov 17, 2020 21:51:36 GMT
Panel voted 5 to 0 to let him back in. And far from all Corbynites. The media just have no interest in the actual report or processes. Just a witch hunt to them.
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Post by RedandWhite90 on Nov 17, 2020 22:06:02 GMT
Well it was a wonderful 3 weeks. 🙄 He really is an odious individual. It's always about him, always has been. Sincere apology? Acknowledgement of his own failure? Reflection on his abysmal leadership? Not a word. Whats worse is he doesn't even know the pain and damage he causes. He doesn't need reinstating he needs educating. And sure enough, as much as fleet street falls in line behind No. 10 his own sycophantic followers will welcome him back with open arms. Time will tell on how much he 'fully supports Kier Starmer's decision to accept all the EHRC recommendations' but when looking to rid the party of anti semitism root and branch it's probably wise to keep the fertiliser away too. You clearly reject the EHRC recommendations if you want him kicked out. Quite the opposite really Momo, in fact I agree entirely with Prestwich's response to my initial post and *begrudgingly* would agree with the outcome. His statement in question wasn't anti-semitic and his removal of the whip was a matter of statement and convenience for the party (in my opinion it was for the good of the party) It absolutely does not take away my opinion on the man and the absolute disaster that he is. As a fan of processes my hope is that he is subsequently put through the complaints process and ultimately removed for good along with his poisonous and warped perception of Israel and the Jewish community. His glowing foreword for 'Imperialism 1902' in which the book indulges in disgusting economic anti-semitism was described by him as 'correct and prescient' should have seen him banned in 2011. Alongside with the mural in 2012, his behaviour in office of LOTO, the impact he had on MP's of his own party and his tried a trusted approach of, 'Not me Guv' shows how utterly unfit and indecent he is for any form of Public Office.
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Post by RedandWhite90 on Nov 17, 2020 22:06:51 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2020 22:37:49 GMT
He's shitting bricks right now is Kier, doesn't know which way to turn......
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Post by cobhamstokey on Nov 17, 2020 22:39:42 GMT
Looks like a huge split in the Labour Party. Will be interesting to see how it plays out.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2020 22:41:48 GMT
Looks like a huge split in the Labour Party. Will be interesting to see how it plays out. It will go round and round like it always does. It's time for a split, won't happen though.....
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Post by followyoudown on Nov 17, 2020 22:52:11 GMT
Well it was a wonderful 3 weeks. 🙄 He really is an odious individual. It's always about him, always has been. Sincere apology? Acknowledgement of his own failure? Reflection on his abysmal leadership? Not a word. Whats worse is he doesn't even know the pain and damage he causes. He doesn't need reinstating he needs educating. And sure enough, as much as fleet street falls in line behind No. 10 his own sycophantic followers will welcome him back with open arms. Time will tell on how much he 'fully supports Kier Starmer's decision to accept all the EHRC recommendations' but when looking to rid the party of anti semitism root and branch it's probably wise to keep the fertiliser away too. You clearly reject the EHRC recommendations if you want him kicked out. They aren't recommendations in the EHRC they are legal requirements they have to do fail and enforcement notices and penalties follow.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Nov 17, 2020 22:57:13 GMT
Looks like a huge split in the Labour Party. Will be interesting to see how it plays out. It will go round and round like it always does. It's time for a split, won't happen though..... Like one party led by Corbyn and one by Starmer? They’d never win an election if that happened.
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Post by ColonelMustard on Nov 17, 2020 23:01:29 GMT
It will go round and round like it always does. It's time for a split, won't happen though..... Like one party led by Corbyn and one by Starmer? They’d never win an election if that happened. The left needs to push for some decent form of PR and reform of the Lords. Then all this will fade away. Get PR done.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Nov 17, 2020 23:01:34 GMT
You clearly reject the EHRC recommendations if you want him kicked out. They aren't recommendations in the EHRC they are legal requirements they have to do fail and enforcement notices and penalties follow. And you pick and choose which ones you support because it's not really about racism or prejudice for you is it. The Labour Party clearly realised they'd made the same mistake tonight.
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