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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2020 12:08:08 GMT
How did Jeremy and the Labour party get themselves in this situation? It always seems to be someone else's fault. I've given my personal answer to this hundreds of times John, on this thread and others. You'd rather give your benefit of the doubt to Tommy Robinson I get that.......
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2020 12:36:25 GMT
The problem we have is the obsession with personalities, we seem to struggle to separate personalities from the issues. Anyone and everybody should be concerned about this EHRC report and the political processes behind it.Throughout the report, the EHRC has drawn conclusions on what is and is not anti-Semitic, where it has no legal power to do so. In addition, the Commission fails to give a definition of anti-Semitism in the report itself, and seems to proceed from the assumption that anything it considers to be anti-Semitism is anti-Semitism. If the same principle is applied to any other investigation would we be happy? For example, judgements on racist behaviour without a clear definition of what racism is. Calling someone out for being racist without a clear understanding of what racism is? This is something people complain about all of the time on here, but when applied to someone who one doesn't sympathise with politically then it is ok. It's a very dangerous road and very selective. It's ok posting twitter comments by folk who are celebrating damage caused by this report, but I would suggest take a closer look at those who are celebrating, and those behind this report and it might not be so satisfying. An atmosphere where people are paralysed by fear of being labeled is 'anti-semite' is not healthy just as an atmosphere of being labeled 'racist' is equally destructive, as we see on here on a weekly basis, particularly when the definitions of these are deliberately evasive for political purposes. A quote from the UK Parliament Human Rights Committee report on "Black people, racism and human rights" published today. "We find that the Equality and Human Rights Commission (EHRC) has been unable to adequately provide leadership and gain trust in tackling racial inequality in the protection and promotion of human rights." Pretty damning stuff......
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2020 15:24:55 GMT
If Starmer thinks the antisemitism issue will suddenly go away, he might be mistaken. It will just keep getting cranked up a notch until all criticism of the state of Israel is defined as anti-Jewish racism.....
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Post by ColonelMustard on Nov 16, 2020 16:39:16 GMT
If Starmer thinks the antisemitism issue will suddenly go away, he might be mistaken. It will just keep getting cranked up a notch until all criticism of the state of Israel is defined as anti-Jewish racism..... If they kick her out she should take this one all the way. As far as I'm aware there is nothing in the IRHA examples that mentions apartheid. And neither should it. If they dont kick her out, then they cannot suspend future members for saying the Israeli occupation as comparable to apartheid. Agree with what you say. It was said very early on when this started that reflexive concession to people like this is not satisfying, its encouraging. Hasbara is a mission. Again, not that you are allowed to say it as a Labour member.
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Post by followyoudown on Nov 17, 2020 10:45:46 GMT
Alot of words there but sorry is missing as usual as well as acceptance of being responsible but he is getting there slowly not exgarrated or overstated is recognised at least....
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2020 10:50:46 GMT
Alot of words there but sorry is missing as usual as well as acceptance of being responsible but he is getting there slowly not exgarrated or overstated is recognised at least.... There you go again being completely disingenuous. The concerns are real - he said that in his last statement and many times over - but the scale is exaggerated. It's really not difficult to decipher......
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Post by followyoudown on Nov 17, 2020 11:26:48 GMT
Alot of words there but sorry is missing as usual as well as acceptance of being responsible but he is getting there slowly not exgarrated or overstated is recognised at least.... There you go again being completely disingenuous. The concerns are real - he said that in his last statement and many times over - but the scale is exaggerated. It's really not difficult to decipher...... Thats just laughable there is no apology and as pointed out no withdrawal of his original comments on not accepting all of the EHRC report, timed on the day his case is due to be heard.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2020 11:32:40 GMT
There you go again being completely disingenuous. The concerns are real - he said that in his last statement and many times over - but the scale is exaggerated. It's really not difficult to decipher...... Thats just laughable there is no apology and as pointed out no withdrawal of his original comments on not accepting all of the EHRC report, timed on the day his case is due to be heard. Oliver Cooper doesn't seem to be able to read either. "To be clear, concerns about antisemitism are neither 'exaggerated' nor 'overstated'" Every accusation of antisemitism should be heard and addressed accordingly. Which is what happened once McNicol stepped away from the process I might add. "The scale of the problem was also dramatically overstated for political reasons" - It absolutely was and absolutely still is. It's like Groundhog Day this. What about this accusation of "antisemitism" for example?
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Post by ColonelMustard on Nov 17, 2020 12:27:00 GMT
There you go again being completely disingenuous. The concerns are real - he said that in his last statement and many times over - but the scale is exaggerated. It's really not difficult to decipher...... Thats just laughable there is no apology and as pointed out no withdrawal of his original comments on not accepting all of the EHRC report, timed on the day his case is due to be heard. How that fella says "I dont think Jewish members will share his optimism". As though all Jewish members think alike. And it just passes people by.
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Post by ColonelMustard on Nov 17, 2020 12:30:08 GMT
Thats just laughable there is no apology and as pointed out no withdrawal of his original comments on not accepting all of the EHRC report, timed on the day his case is due to be heard. Oliver Cooper doesn't seem to be able to read either. "To be clear, concerns about antisemitism are neither 'exaggerated' nor 'overstated'" Every accusation of antisemitism should be heard and addressed accordingly. Which is what happened once McNicol stepped away from the process I might add. "The scale of the problem was also dramatically overstated for political reasons" - It absolutely was and absolutely still is. It's like Groundhog Day this. What about this accusation of "antisemitism" for example? I think the key word of the whole thing is "concerns". He has gone back on the scale of the problem being overstated. And neither should he.
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Post by partickpotter on Nov 17, 2020 12:48:42 GMT
Alot of words there but sorry is missing as usual as well as acceptance of being responsible but he is getting there slowly not exgarrated or overstated is recognised at least.... I thought, though I may be mistaken, what he has published today is the full statement he made a few weeks ago.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2020 13:13:31 GMT
Alot of words there but sorry is missing as usual as well as acceptance of being responsible but he is getting there slowly not exgarrated or overstated is recognised at least.... I thought, though I may be mistaken, what he has published today is the full statement he made a few weeks ago. Let's be honest whatever statement he makes now won't be enough for some. They won't rest until he's expelled from the party, for a small minority I genuinely think they won't be happy until they see the bloke attacked on his doorstep or outside his local church on a Sunday. My two penneth is he should have left it at his previous statement which as far as I'm concerned was factual and in line with the EHRC report itself.......
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Post by partickpotter on Nov 17, 2020 13:20:13 GMT
I thought, though I may be mistaken, what he has published today is the full statement he made a few weeks ago. Let's be honest whatever statement he makes now won't be enough for some. They won't rest until he's expelled from the party, for a small minority I genuinely think they won't be happy until they see the bloke attacked on his doorstep or outside his local church on a Sunday. My two penneth is he should have left it at his previous statement which as far as I'm concerned was factual and in line with the EHRC report itself....... The knives are out for him for sure. I wonder why he felt the need to say something today. I agree with you that he’d said all he had to say previously. I also agree with you about the falseness of anti-semitism accusations against him. (I suspect that’s about the only thing regarding Mr Corbyn we have in agreement!).
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2020 13:23:33 GMT
Let's be honest whatever statement he makes now won't be enough for some. They won't rest until he's expelled from the party, for a small minority I genuinely think they won't be happy until they see the bloke attacked on his doorstep or outside his local church on a Sunday. My two penneth is he should have left it at his previous statement which as far as I'm concerned was factual and in line with the EHRC report itself....... The knives are out for him for sure. I wonder why he felt the need to say something today. I agree with you that he’d said all he had to say previously. I also agree with you about the falseness of anti-semitism accusations against him. (I suspect that’s about the only thing regarding Mr Corbyn we have in agreement!). Probably in good faith to try and diffuse the situation, only he can answer that though as I wouldn't have personally. But you cannot reason with people who want to see you completely buried, appeasement doesn't work.....
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Post by ColonelMustard on Nov 17, 2020 13:37:50 GMT
"The Jewish Community dont accept this pathetic non apology.."
Nearly all the Jewish people I know cant stand the BOD. Including the handful that are very supportive of Israel.
Everyone is too afraid to push back on them.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2020 13:48:32 GMT
"The Jewish Community dont accept this pathetic non apology.." Nearly all the Jewish people I know cant stand the BOD. Including the handful that are very supportive of Israel. Everyone is too afraid to push back on them. If you want to be entertained mention the BOD to my two Jewish neighbours. One is a massive Corbyn fan who despises the BOD and all they stand for, one hates Corbyn with all his might and is a proud Zionist. Causally bring it up into conversation and watch the sparks fly.....
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Post by sheikhmomo on Nov 17, 2020 13:49:24 GMT
"The Jewish Community dont accept this pathetic non apology.." Nearly all the Jewish people I know cant stand the BOD. Including the handful that are very supportive of Israel. Everyone is too afraid to push back on them. Presumably this Jew isn't part of the Jewish community? The wrong sort of Jew indeed...
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Post by ColonelMustard on Nov 17, 2020 14:00:06 GMT
"The Jewish Community dont accept this pathetic non apology.." Nearly all the Jewish people I know cant stand the BOD. Including the handful that are very supportive of Israel. Everyone is too afraid to push back on them. Presumably this Jew isn't part of the Jewish community? The wrong sort of Jew indeed... Well, not the greatest story ever told. But here goes. I hitch hiked to London in 91 and was pretty much taken in by a Jewish family in North London. It was them who first introduced me to their MP Jeremy Corbyn who they thought of in the highest terms. They still do and are two of the signatories of various supportive statements by Jewish constituents over the last few years including recently. Ignored time and again in the national press. While certain other voices have been amplified. They are indeed the wrong kind of Jews for the highly cnservative BOD and as lifelong and active Labour members their views completely ignored in the party. Anti semitism takes many forms. And I couldn't think of them more highly.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2020 14:00:33 GMT
"The Jewish Community dont accept this pathetic non apology.." Nearly all the Jewish people I know cant stand the BOD. Including the handful that are very supportive of Israel. Everyone is too afraid to push back on them. Presumably this Jew isn't part of the Jewish community? The wrong sort of Jew indeed... And of course the 52% of the Jewish population that are either Haredi Jews who absolutely do not recognise the BOD, or secular Jews not attached to a synagogue who hold a myriad of views.....
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Post by followyoudown on Nov 17, 2020 14:50:07 GMT
Alot of words there but sorry is missing as usual as well as acceptance of being responsible but he is getting there slowly not exgarrated or overstated is recognised at least.... I thought, though I may be mistaken, what he has published today is the full statement he made a few weeks ago. No its a new statement.
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Post by followyoudown on Nov 17, 2020 14:51:03 GMT
"The Jewish Community dont accept this pathetic non apology.." Nearly all the Jewish people I know cant stand the BOD. Including the handful that are very supportive of Israel. Everyone is too afraid to push back on them. Presumably this Jew isn't part of the Jewish community? The wrong sort of Jew indeed... Have they got the congo lake presvation society to sign another letter yet ?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2020 14:56:08 GMT
Presumably this Jew isn't part of the Jewish community? The wrong sort of Jew indeed... Have they got the congo lake presvation society to sign another letter yet ? Actual views from Jewish people who support Corbyn and disagree with your view point are of no interest to you are they?
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Post by ColonelMustard on Nov 17, 2020 15:04:05 GMT
Presumably this Jew isn't part of the Jewish community? The wrong sort of Jew indeed... Have they got the congo lake presvation society to sign another letter yet ? I dont even know what that means? But I'm sure you are not dismissing Jewish voices.
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Post by felonious on Nov 17, 2020 15:13:54 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2020 15:19:00 GMT
Good to see that the 5 person panel (including a barrister) that meets monthly to discuss antisemitism set up by Corbyn himself is working as it should be. If only Ian McNicol and his team hadn't sat on numerous cases and did something similar it may not have needed to come to this.....
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Post by partickpotter on Nov 17, 2020 16:46:55 GMT
I thought, though I may be mistaken, what he has published today is the full statement he made a few weeks ago. No its a new statement. Not correct. What Corbyn published today is the statement he sent to Labour at the time of his original comments.
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Post by ColonelMustard on Nov 17, 2020 17:22:20 GMT
Not correct. What Corbyn published today is the statement he sent to Labour at the time of his original comments. Is it really? Published today, after US election died down and pending hearing. Maybe the old devil has got some moves in him yet. And got the mail and others to call it a grovelling apology. Ha. And its drawn a statement from the BOD that is disrespectful of Starmer. It will have raised a few extra eyebrows to the relationship. He starts to look weak whatever happens.
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Post by ColonelMustard on Nov 17, 2020 18:23:20 GMT
Leak is that he's back in. Despite a 3 to 2 right wing panel. No legal case I guess.
Not sure who's move next. BOD's or Starmers.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2020 18:37:45 GMT
Leak is that he's back in. Despite a 3 to 2 right wing panel. No legal case I guess. Not sure who's move next. BOD's or Starmers.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Nov 17, 2020 18:53:20 GMT
Amazing isn't it. I wonder how long it was after they booted him out of the party that they realised they were in breach of EHRC guidance themselves. Evans should resign.
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