|
Post by franklin on Nov 1, 2021 22:23:16 GMT
Been down that stretch of road on a day out in Heidelberg and thought it was a very good idea but its not liked by the locals and they're not convinced for some reason one was the cost apparently it was astronomical to install.
|
|
|
Post by mrcoke on Nov 3, 2021 10:40:58 GMT
|
|
|
Post by harryburrows on Nov 3, 2021 13:27:56 GMT
Saw online today a building firm took delivery of JCB electric mini digger . It worked well for 2 hours then has to be charged with a diesel generator for 12 hours 🤔
|
|
|
Post by franklin on Nov 3, 2021 15:05:13 GMT
Saw online today a building firm took delivery of JCB electric mini digger . It worked well for 2 hours then has to be charged with a diesel generator for 12 hours 🤔 Puddled isn't it 😂
|
|
|
Post by mrcoke on Nov 4, 2021 18:21:51 GMT
|
|
|
Post by zerps on Nov 4, 2021 19:07:33 GMT
I know people turning their heating down by one degree to save the world 😂
|
|
|
Post by franklin on Nov 4, 2021 19:30:03 GMT
Well who'd have thought it....
|
|
|
Post by foster on Nov 4, 2021 19:58:57 GMT
Well who'd have thought it.... I can't get past the fact that we (every other country I've been to other than Germany) can't even do the basics when it comes to returnable bottles and stuff like they do in Germany. They do that for glass and cans and their drink aisles contain plastic at a minimum. It's all crates of glass bottles for all kinds of beverages. It's basic but I huge reduction in waste and litter. We also wrap far too much food in individual layers of plastic film. You'll be familiar with it I guess.
|
|
|
Post by mrcoke on Nov 4, 2021 22:00:00 GMT
Well who'd have thought it.... I can't get past the fact that we (every other country I've been to other than Germany) can't even do the basics when it comes to returnable bottles and stuff like they do in Germany. They do that for glass and cans and their drink aisles contain plastic at a minimum. It's all crates of glass bottles for all kinds of beverages. It's basic but I huge reduction in waste and litter. We also wrap far too much food in individual layers of plastic film. You'll be familiar with it I guess. inews.co.uk/news/environment/glass-bottles-much-worse-environment-plastic-study-764531
|
|
|
Post by franklin on Nov 4, 2021 22:15:17 GMT
Well who'd have thought it.... I can't get past the fact that we (every other country I've been to other than Germany) can't even do the basics when it comes to returnable bottles and stuff like they do in Germany. They do that for glass and cans and their drink aisles contain plastic at a minimum. It's all crates of glass bottles for all kinds of beverages. It's basic but I huge reduction in waste and litter. We also wrap far too much food in individual layers of plastic film. You'll be familiar with it I guess. I am now mate I was flabbergasted when I first saw the "deposits" on bottles plastic and glass. It's fantastic you literally see no bottles thrown away anywhere I know its not the solution but there are people searching for bottles all over the place. I went to watch the footy and two things stuck me I could get to the ground on a train for €3 and despite thousands of people walking to the ground with hands full of beer bottles not one was thrown away on the walk through the forest to the stadium. At set points on the walk to the ground there were people waiting and they were handed the empties and they must have made a killing as there is usually at least 50cents on a bottle and some had upto €2 a bottle deposit. When I visit you're right hardly a plastic bottle in sight but crates of glass bottles, you name it its in glass. I love the kiosks buy a beer sit outside drink it hand it back at get your deposit back. My lads MIL runs an antique shop in the centre of Frankfurt and next door is a kiosk and I've had some great days sitting outside her shop drinking watching the world go by chatting to people from binmen to solicitors all there drinking on the street from a hole in the wall kiosk.
|
|
|
Post by foster on Nov 4, 2021 22:26:48 GMT
I can't get past the fact that we (every other country I've been to other than Germany) can't even do the basics when it comes to returnable bottles and stuff like they do in Germany. They do that for glass and cans and their drink aisles contain plastic at a minimum. It's all crates of glass bottles for all kinds of beverages. It's basic but I huge reduction in waste and litter. We also wrap far too much food in individual layers of plastic film. You'll be familiar with it I guess. inews.co.uk/news/environment/glass-bottles-much-worse-environment-plastic-study-764531And? Where does it say that Germany does worse because they reuse glass bottles? All this does is point towards consumer behaviour which doesn't apply to Germany but probably most other places. If habits change, glass is better. As it says.
|
|
|
Post by harryburrows on Nov 5, 2021 8:54:56 GMT
And? Where does it say that Germany does worse because they reuse glass bottles? All this does is point towards consumer behaviour which doesn't apply to Germany but probably most other places. If habits change, glass is better. As it says. The big supermarkets have been allowed to airbrush over this problem for decades . Having created the overpackaging issue in the 1st place to enable their bar codes and scanning systems . The the put the responsibility back on the shopper , firstly charging for carrier bags . Last n some cases costing more than the contents weekend went to my local tesco where they now don't provide bags at the loose fruit and veg section. You only have to buy some nylon net bags @30p pp . I am very willing to change my shopping habits to encourage sustainable shopping. What annoys me is the big retailers do not seem to accept they are part of the problem , not just the shoppers
|
|
|
Post by Northy on Nov 5, 2021 9:04:47 GMT
I can't get past the fact that we (every other country I've been to other than Germany) can't even do the basics when it comes to returnable bottles and stuff like they do in Germany. They do that for glass and cans and their drink aisles contain plastic at a minimum. It's all crates of glass bottles for all kinds of beverages. It's basic but I huge reduction in waste and litter. We also wrap far too much food in individual layers of plastic film. You'll be familiar with it I guess. I am now mate I was flabbergasted when I first saw the "deposits" on bottles plastic and glass. It's fantastic you literally see no bottles thrown away anywhere I know its not the solution but there are people searching for bottles all over the place. I went to watch the footy and two things stuck me I could get to the ground on a train for €3 and despite thousands of people walking to the ground with hands full of beer bottles not one was thrown away on the walk through the forest to the stadium. At set points on the walk to the ground there were people waiting and they were handed the empties and they must have made a killing as there is usually at least 50cents on a bottle and some had upto €2 a bottle deposit. When I visit you're right hardly a plastic bottle in sight but crates of glass bottles, you name it its in glass. I love the kiosks buy a beer sit outside drink it hand it back at get your deposit back. My lads MIL runs an antique shop in the centre of Frankfurt and next door is a kiosk and I've had some great days sitting outside her shop drinking watching the world go by chatting to people from binmen to solicitors all there drinking on the street from a hole in the wall kiosk. And the people pushing shopping trolleys along the banks of the rhine collecting empties off people so they don't have to walk to a shop to get their deposit back, all's you need now is someone with a carton for your piss to be taken away and you wouldn't have to move
|
|
|
Post by Lakeland Potter on Nov 5, 2021 9:37:34 GMT
My contribution to saving the planet!
My gas boiler was getting towards the end of its life and this summer I took the plunge and had an air source heat pump installed. So far so good. It still feels weird to be getting the house and hot water heated without "burning" anything (other than however the electricity is produced) but although my electricity consumption is up it is (so far) not up by anything like the cost of the LPG I used to pay for. Living where I do, until heat pumps arrived, central heating options were only LPG (much more expensive than mains natural gas) or oil - cheaper but which produces even more greenhouse gas than LPG.
The big test will come in mid winter when we can sometimes get temperatures well below zero for weeks at a time. The good news is that we've had a few frosts so far and the heat pump is only running for a fraction of the time - so I am fairly confident that it will cope in the depths of winter.
Interestingly the heat pump industry seems to have learned a few lessons in recent years. About 5 years ago when I first looked into heat pumps the firm who did the survey recommended a 7KW pump. The pump now installed is a 9KW pump - the extra power is to compensate for living up north and having solid stone walls.
Now - what you all want to hear: THE COST!
Until next March the government are offering a big subsidy with the aim of getting up to 1 million heat pumps installed to get as much info on their pluses and minuses in various climates from all over the country. In round terms the total cost was £12,500 including installation - which took 2 days. THE COST IS EXPECTED TO DROP IN THE NEXT FEW YEARS AS HEAT PUMPS BECOME COMMON PLACE. The Government are contracted to pay me back £10,500 in quarterly payments over the next 7 years - interestingly the payments rise with general inflation - although not I think by as much as power costs will rise. So the net cost to me was £2000 - not much different to the costs of a new boiler installation. I also had to spend £900 on insulation for the walls, roof and floor of a lean to utility room on the side of my cottage. It contains my washing machine, tumble drier (for occasional use!) a sink and freezer. I call it the Australian shed as it is corrugated iron and had no insulation at all! It is also where the water supply comes into my building so it had to be properly insulated to avoid freezing up in the winter. It also has a small radiator in it.
As well as the heat pump (which is on the outside of the building at the back at first floor level) I also had to have a new very highly insulated hot water tank and new (larger) radiators throughout the cottage - all included in the cost of £12,500.
Projected annual savings (i.e. cost of electricity compared to electricity + LPG) are £700 - £900 per year and I think my actual savings will be within that range.
Note: at present anyone with oil or LPG heating can expect savings, but those on mains gas can't, as mains gas is so much cheaper than the alternatives - this may change if energy prices stay at their current high levels.
|
|
|
Post by franklin on Nov 5, 2021 10:03:34 GMT
And? Where does it say that Germany does worse because they reuse glass bottles? All this does is point towards consumer behaviour which doesn't apply to Germany but probably most other places. If habits change, glass is better. As it says. The big supermarkets have been allowed to airbrush over this problem for decades . Having created the overpackaging issue in the 1st place to enable their bar codes and scanning systems . The the put the responsibility back on the shopper , firstly charging for carrier bags . Last n some cases costing more than the contents weekend went to my local tesco where they now don't provide bags at the loose fruit and veg section. You only have to buy some nylon net bags @30p pp . I am very willing to change my shopping habits to encourage sustainable shopping. What annoys me is the big retailers do not seem to accept they are part of the problem , not just the shoppers I'm no environmentalist but plastic on packaging drives me mad and I've said this before I'd ban it completely need 5lb of potatoes get them loose in your own bag.
|
|
|
Post by Lakeland Potter on Nov 5, 2021 10:12:02 GMT
The big supermarkets have been allowed to airbrush over this problem for decades . Having created the overpackaging issue in the 1st place to enable their bar codes and scanning systems . The the put the responsibility back on the shopper , firstly charging for carrier bags . Last n some cases costing more than the contents weekend went to my local tesco where they now don't provide bags at the loose fruit and veg section. You only have to buy some nylon net bags @30p pp . I am very willing to change my shopping habits to encourage sustainable shopping. What annoys me is the big retailers do not seem to accept they are part of the problem , not just the shoppers I'm no environmentalist but plastic on packaging drives me mad and I've said this before I'd ban it completely need 5lb of potatoes get them loose on in you own bag. Agreed. The worst is the packaging on some items which seems to be designed to be as difficult to remove as possible. I sometimes feel that I need a power saw to get stuff out of blister packs. I know things like this become more difficult as you get older but some blister packs are so designed that people much younger than me struggle. Any why is it that my local super market after displaying some fruits in cardboard trays has now started displaying the same items in polystyrene trays? I complained and they said that was down to the producers or importers. Bollox - all they have to do is specify in the contract that polystyrene is not used for trays of fruit.
|
|
|
Post by franklin on Nov 5, 2021 10:32:24 GMT
I'm no environmentalist but plastic on packaging drives me mad and I've said this before I'd ban it completely need 5lb of potatoes get them loose on in you own bag. Agreed. The worst is the packaging on some items which seems to be designed to be as difficult to remove as possible. I sometimes feel that I need a power saw to get stuff out of blister packs. I know things like this become more difficult as you get older but some blister packs are so designed that people much younger than me struggle. Any why is it that my local super market after displaying some fruits in cardboard trays has now started displaying the same items in polystyrene trays? I complained and they said that was down to the producers or importers. Bollox - all they have to do is specify in the contract that polystyrene is not used for trays of fruit. I'm glad you understood what I was saying from that gobbledegook I couldn't find my specs and typed blind 😂
|
|
|
Post by outspaced on Nov 5, 2021 11:47:25 GMT
Watching Autumn Watch on the Beeb makes me think what a beautiful planet we live on and nature is just so fascinating and calming. Shame the one thing that spoils it all is human fucking beings.
|
|
|
Post by mrcoke on Nov 5, 2021 11:50:50 GMT
At the risk of being the "bad messenger " again as I was for posting a link above about why there are so few glass bottles in the UK , the reason for so much plastic packaging is society's behaviour. We have an insatiable desire to eat the same foods all the year round, no one is bothered about eating foods "in season", few want to work in slaughter houses, or pick fruit, or drive lorries, etc. This drives our society to import over half our food, (<80% if you include drink, such as wine, tea, coffee, etc.) of which over half is from the EU. The rest is spread around the world with no country accounting for 5%, driven by the barriers the EU has to importing food from outside the CAP area. Barriers we are now experiencing selling shellfish and dairy, meat and other products into the EU, which, as we are all well aware includes Northern Ireland. Naturally we want all this imported food to be fresh which drives the suppliers to the packaging situation. www.bpf.co.uk/packaging/why-do-we-need-plastic-packaging.aspxThe way out is to buy British food, harvested automatically/robotically and start producing more ourselves. For example the vast majority of our tomatoes are imported from The Netherlands, Spain, and Poland. In the case of Dutch tomatoes they are grown under artificial light in factories all the year round. We also import the vast majority of our frozen potato products from Belgium and The Netherlands. We import vast amounts of dairy and meat products from Ireland. Cheese and fruit from France and Italy, etc. Climate change means our wine production is growing rapidly; there are even vineyards in Yorkshire today. Other products could follow suit such as flowers, more exotic fruits, etc. The more we produce ourselves, the less we need to plastic package. The more we can supplement our own production with imports from countries producing fresh in season such as Morocco and other African countries the less need for packaging. Leaving the EU has meant we have lost the access to cheap labour. As in the industrial revolution that will drive investment in automation and robotics, which in turn will increase output. Climate change could also mean that some countries like Spain and Italy will lose their agriculture. www.fwi.co.uk/arable/crop-management/worlds-first-autonomous-farm-robot-fleet-ready-for-2022www.reading.ac.uk/apd/about/apd-news-autonomous-robots.aspx
|
|
|
Post by Rednwhitenblue on Nov 5, 2021 12:04:08 GMT
I can't get past the fact that we (every other country I've been to other than Germany) can't even do the basics when it comes to returnable bottles and stuff like they do in Germany. They do that for glass and cans and their drink aisles contain plastic at a minimum. It's all crates of glass bottles for all kinds of beverages. It's basic but I huge reduction in waste and litter. We also wrap far too much food in individual layers of plastic film. You'll be familiar with it I guess. I am now mate I was flabbergasted when I first saw the "deposits" on bottles plastic and glass. It's fantastic you literally see no bottles thrown away anywhere I know its not the solution but there are people searching for bottles all over the place. I went to watch the footy and two things stuck me I could get to the ground on a train for €3 and despite thousands of people walking to the ground with hands full of beer bottles not one was thrown away on the walk through the forest to the stadium. At set points on the walk to the ground there were people waiting and they were handed the empties and they must have made a killing as there is usually at least 50cents on a bottle and some had upto €2 a bottle deposit. When I visit you're right hardly a plastic bottle in sight but crates of glass bottles, you name it its in glass. I love the kiosks buy a beer sit outside drink it hand it back at get your deposit back. My lads MIL runs an antique shop in the centre of Frankfurt and next door is a kiosk and I've had some great days sitting outside her shop drinking watching the world go by chatting to people from binmen to solicitors all there drinking on the street from a hole in the wall kiosk. Completely agree. I think a lot of it is down to attitude. Instead of "how much will this cost/dent profits", there's seems to be "it's the right thing to do, let's do it". They also have a pride in their country which generally doesn't include dropping litter everywhere.
|
|
|
Post by Rednwhitenblue on Nov 5, 2021 12:10:27 GMT
Watching Autumn Watch on the Beeb makes me think what a beautiful planet we live on and nature is just so fascinating and calming. Shame the one thing that spoils it all is human fucking beings. It's a valid point. The way we're going humans as a species won't be around too long and nature can get back to how it was before we came along to cock it all up. Most mammal species can expect to have a 1-2 million year period of existence. Modern humans seem hell-bent on becoming extinct having been here for about 200,000 years or so, with almost all the real damage from the last 300 years or so.
|
|
|
Post by mrcoke on Nov 5, 2021 12:54:43 GMT
Watching Autumn Watch on the Beeb makes me think what a beautiful planet we live on and nature is just so fascinating and calming. Shame the one thing that spoils it all is human fucking beings. It's a valid point. The way we're going humans as a species won't be around too long and nature can get back to how it was before we came along to cock it all up. Most mammal species can expect to have a 1-2 million year period of existence. Modern humans seem hell-bent on becoming extinct having been here for about 200,000 years or so, with almost all the real damage from the last 300 years or so. Yes it started 300 years ago but the frightening thing is how it is accelerating. The industrialisation of the west took place the 18th and 19th centuries, and extravagance of our life style took over after WWII with oil, air travel, etc. But the escalation has taken place since the opening up of China and rapid industrialisation many other countries like South Korea. Today it is Mexico with a score of other countries. Most notably India who are a couple of decades behind China. There are many contributors to global warning and polluting the world but CO2 is the best guide of what is happening: www.weforum.org/agenda/2021/03/met-office-atmospheric-co2-industrial-levels-environment-climate-change/As I said above the shape of that graph is frightening.
|
|
|
Post by Northy on Nov 5, 2021 14:50:22 GMT
My contribution to saving the planet! My gas boiler was getting towards the end of its life and this summer I took the plunge and had an air source heat pump installed. So far so good. It still feels weird to be getting the house and hot water heated without "burning" anything (other than however the electricity is produced) but although my electricity consumption is up it is (so far) not up by anything like the cost of the LPG I used to pay for. Living where I do, until heat pumps arrived, central heating options were only LPG (much more expensive than mains natural gas) or oil - cheaper but which produces even more greenhouse gas than LPG. The big test will come in mid winter when we can sometimes get temperatures well below zero for weeks at a time. The good news is that we've had a few frosts so far and the heat pump is only running for a fraction of the time - so I am fairly confident that it will cope in the depths of winter. Interestingly the heat pump industry seems to have learned a few lessons in recent years. About 5 years ago when I first looked into heat pumps the firm who did the survey recommended a 7KW pump. The pump now installed is a 9KW pump - the extra power is to compensate for living up north and having solid stone walls. Now - what you all want to hear: THE COST! Until next March the government are offering a big subsidy with the aim of getting up to 1 million heat pumps installed to get as much info on their pluses and minuses in various climates from all over the country. In round terms the total cost was £12,500 including installation - which took 2 days. THE COST IS EXPECTED TO DROP IN THE NEXT FEW YEARS AS HEAT PUMPS BECOME COMMON PLACE. The Government are contracted to pay me back £10,500 in quarterly payments over the next 7 years - interestingly the payments rise with general inflation - although not I think by as much as power costs will rise. So the net cost to me was £2000 - not much different to the costs of a new boiler installation. I also had to spend £900 on insulation for the walls, roof and floor of a lean to utility room on the side of my cottage. It contains my washing machine, tumble drier (for occasional use!) a sink and freezer. I call it the Australian shed as it is corrugated iron and had no insulation at all! It is also where the water supply comes into my building so it had to be properly insulated to avoid freezing up in the winter. It also has a small radiator in it. As well as the heat pump (which is on the outside of the building at the back at first floor level) I also had to have a new very highly insulated hot water tank and new (larger) radiators throughout the cottage - all included in the cost of £12,500. Projected annual savings (i.e. cost of electricity compared to electricity + LPG) are £700 - £900 per year and I think my actual savings will be within that range. Note: at present anyone with oil or LPG heating can expect savings, but those on mains gas can't, as mains gas is so much cheaper than the alternatives - this may change if energy prices stay at their current high levels. Was your installation an ASHP that then linked into your wet heating system as an indirect system, rather than a typical AC system that can work in reverse ?
|
|
|
Post by Northy on Nov 5, 2021 14:51:26 GMT
Saw online today a building firm took delivery of JCB electric mini digger . It worked well for 2 hours then has to be charged with a diesel generator for 12 hours 🤔 which idiot ordered one without having a charging point in the first place !
|
|
|
Post by Lakeland Potter on Nov 5, 2021 15:06:25 GMT
My contribution to saving the planet! My gas boiler was getting towards the end of its life and this summer I took the plunge and had an air source heat pump installed. So far so good. It still feels weird to be getting the house and hot water heated without "burning" anything (other than however the electricity is produced) but although my electricity consumption is up it is (so far) not up by anything like the cost of the LPG I used to pay for. Living where I do, until heat pumps arrived, central heating options were only LPG (much more expensive than mains natural gas) or oil - cheaper but which produces even more greenhouse gas than LPG. The big test will come in mid winter when we can sometimes get temperatures well below zero for weeks at a time. The good news is that we've had a few frosts so far and the heat pump is only running for a fraction of the time - so I am fairly confident that it will cope in the depths of winter. Interestingly the heat pump industry seems to have learned a few lessons in recent years. About 5 years ago when I first looked into heat pumps the firm who did the survey recommended a 7KW pump. The pump now installed is a 9KW pump - the extra power is to compensate for living up north and having solid stone walls. Now - what you all want to hear: THE COST! Until next March the government are offering a big subsidy with the aim of getting up to 1 million heat pumps installed to get as much info on their pluses and minuses in various climates from all over the country. In round terms the total cost was £12,500 including installation - which took 2 days. THE COST IS EXPECTED TO DROP IN THE NEXT FEW YEARS AS HEAT PUMPS BECOME COMMON PLACE. The Government are contracted to pay me back £10,500 in quarterly payments over the next 7 years - interestingly the payments rise with general inflation - although not I think by as much as power costs will rise. So the net cost to me was £2000 - not much different to the costs of a new boiler installation. I also had to spend £900 on insulation for the walls, roof and floor of a lean to utility room on the side of my cottage. It contains my washing machine, tumble drier (for occasional use!) a sink and freezer. I call it the Australian shed as it is corrugated iron and had no insulation at all! It is also where the water supply comes into my building so it had to be properly insulated to avoid freezing up in the winter. It also has a small radiator in it. As well as the heat pump (which is on the outside of the building at the back at first floor level) I also had to have a new very highly insulated hot water tank and new (larger) radiators throughout the cottage - all included in the cost of £12,500. Projected annual savings (i.e. cost of electricity compared to electricity + LPG) are £700 - £900 per year and I think my actual savings will be within that range. Note: at present anyone with oil or LPG heating can expect savings, but those on mains gas can't, as mains gas is so much cheaper than the alternatives - this may change if energy prices stay at their current high levels. Was your installation an ASHP that then linked into your wet heating system as an indirect system, rather than a typical AC system that can work in reverse ? The former. Living where I do 600 feet above sea level in the Lakes and having stone walls nearly 3 feet thick, I have never felt the need for an Air Con system. Even with global warming my cottage is unlikely to overheat in the summer during my lifetime! So the heat pump just heats my hot water tank and supplies heat to the original pipework of the central heating system. Although, as air pumps work at lower water temperatures than the gas boiler did, my CH system now has much bigger radiators running at lower temperature than the old ones. Most of the radiators are the same width and height as the originals but thicker - so 2 panel radiators were replaced with 3 panel ones and 1 panel were replaced with 2 panel. Works fine. It is actually pleasanter to have radiators which are more efficient but at a lower temperature. I don't get hot spots like I did with the old radiators. The system also works off the original British Gas Hive smart thermostat so, for example, if I am returning from holiday in the winter I can turn the heating up when I am a few hours from home.
|
|
|
Post by mtrstudent on Nov 5, 2021 16:12:00 GMT
At the risk of being the "bad messenger " again as I was for posting a link above about why there are so few glass bottles in the UK , the reason for so much plastic packaging is society's behaviour. We have an insatiable desire to eat the same foods all the year round, no one is bothered about eating foods "in season", few want to work in slaughter houses, or pick fruit, or drive lorries, etc. This drives our society to import over half our food, (<80% if you include drink, such as wine, tea, coffee, etc.) of which over half is from the EU. The rest is spread around the world with no country accounting for 5%, driven by the barriers the EU has to importing food from outside the CAP area. Barriers we are now experiencing selling shellfish and dairy, meat and other products into the EU, which, as we are all well aware includes Northern Ireland. Naturally we want all this imported food to be fresh which drives the suppliers to the packaging situation. www.bpf.co.uk/packaging/why-do-we-need-plastic-packaging.aspxThe way out is to buy British food, harvested automatically/robotically and start producing more ourselves. For example the vast majority of our tomatoes are imported from The Netherlands, Spain, and Poland. In the case of Dutch tomatoes they are grown under artificial light in factories all the year round. We also import the vast majority of our frozen potato products from Belgium and The Netherlands. We import vast amounts of dairy and meat products from Ireland. Cheese and fruit from France and Italy, etc. Climate change means our wine production is growing rapidly; there are even vineyards in Yorkshire today. Other products could follow suit such as flowers, more exotic fruits, etc. The more we produce ourselves, the less we need to plastic package. The more we can supplement our own production with imports from countries producing fresh in season such as Morocco and other African countries the less need for packaging. Leaving the EU has meant we have lost the access to cheap labour. As in the industrial revolution that will drive investment in automation and robotics, which in turn will increase output. Climate change could also mean that some countries like Spain and Italy will lose their agriculture. www.fwi.co.uk/arable/crop-management/worlds-first-autonomous-farm-robot-fleet-ready-for-2022www.reading.ac.uk/apd/about/apd-news-autonomous-robots.aspxHave you looked up Thanet Earth mate? Saw it on the TV years back and was fascinated. Our own set of mega greenhousee, I think they sell their tomatoes and peppers in Sainsburys. They seem very efficient with water and they don't let lots of chemicals run off into rivers, so that's nice. Not too sure about the rest of the environmental impact.
|
|
|
Post by mrcoke on Nov 5, 2021 16:27:36 GMT
At the risk of being the "bad messenger " again as I was for posting a link above about why there are so few glass bottles in the UK , the reason for so much plastic packaging is society's behaviour. We have an insatiable desire to eat the same foods all the year round, no one is bothered about eating foods "in season", few want to work in slaughter houses, or pick fruit, or drive lorries, etc. This drives our society to import over half our food, (<80% if you include drink, such as wine, tea, coffee, etc.) of which over half is from the EU. The rest is spread around the world with no country accounting for 5%, driven by the barriers the EU has to importing food from outside the CAP area. Barriers we are now experiencing selling shellfish and dairy, meat and other products into the EU, which, as we are all well aware includes Northern Ireland. Naturally we want all this imported food to be fresh which drives the suppliers to the packaging situation. www.bpf.co.uk/packaging/why-do-we-need-plastic-packaging.aspxThe way out is to buy British food, harvested automatically/robotically and start producing more ourselves. For example the vast majority of our tomatoes are imported from The Netherlands, Spain, and Poland. In the case of Dutch tomatoes they are grown under artificial light in factories all the year round. We also import the vast majority of our frozen potato products from Belgium and The Netherlands. We import vast amounts of dairy and meat products from Ireland. Cheese and fruit from France and Italy, etc. Climate change means our wine production is growing rapidly; there are even vineyards in Yorkshire today. Other products could follow suit such as flowers, more exotic fruits, etc. The more we produce ourselves, the less we need to plastic package. The more we can supplement our own production with imports from countries producing fresh in season such as Morocco and other African countries the less need for packaging. Leaving the EU has meant we have lost the access to cheap labour. As in the industrial revolution that will drive investment in automation and robotics, which in turn will increase output. Climate change could also mean that some countries like Spain and Italy will lose their agriculture. www.fwi.co.uk/arable/crop-management/worlds-first-autonomous-farm-robot-fleet-ready-for-2022www.reading.ac.uk/apd/about/apd-news-autonomous-robots.aspxHave you looked up Thanet Earth mate? Saw it on the TV years back and was fascinated. Our own set of mega greenhousee, I think they sell their tomatoes and peppers in Sainsburys. They seem very efficient with water and they don't let lots of chemicals run off into rivers, so that's nice. Not too sure about the rest of the environmental impact. Thanks for that heads up; I was not aware of the Thanet Earth farm/factory. It is just what the Dutch have done, only in their case a much more massive scale. The largest tomato greenhouse in the Netherlands is a staggering 175 acres!!! The total area under glass in the Netherlands is one and a half times the area of Manhatton. The Dutch has taken agriculture to another level, not just in terms of size and modernity, but developing new desease resistant species, etc. If the UK did this we could feed ourselves with salad products and not have to import on such a huge scale. www.agritecture.com/blog/2020/2/26/how-the-dutch-use-architecture-to-feed-the-world
|
|
|
Post by franklin on Nov 5, 2021 16:42:24 GMT
Have you looked up Thanet Earth mate? Saw it on the TV years back and was fascinated. Our own set of mega greenhousee, I think they sell their tomatoes and peppers in Sainsburys. They seem very efficient with water and they don't let lots of chemicals run off into rivers, so that's nice. Not too sure about the rest of the environmental impact. Thanks for that heads up; I was not aware of the Thanet Earth farm/factory. It is just what the Dutch have done, only in their case a much more massive scale. The largest tomato greenhouse in the Netherlands is a staggering 175 acres!!! The total area under glass in the Netherlands is one and a half times the area of Manhatton. The Dutch has taken agriculture to another level, not just in terms of size and modernity, but developing new desease resistant species, etc. If the UK did this we could feed ourselves with salad products and not have to import on such a huge scale. www.agritecture.com/blog/2020/2/26/how-the-dutch-use-architecture-to-feed-the-worldHave you seen the shitty greenhouses on Gran Canaria you can see them from space they're huge but the plastic is just everywhere in the islands soil shocking similar to these. www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2303943/amp/Britains-vegetable-garden-The-sea-Spanish-greenhouses-large-Isle-Wight-food-eat-grown.html
|
|
|
Post by mrcoke on Nov 5, 2021 17:46:12 GMT
|
|
|
Post by mtrstudent on Nov 6, 2021 19:05:29 GMT
Have you looked up Thanet Earth mate? Saw it on the TV years back and was fascinated. Our own set of mega greenhousee, I think they sell their tomatoes and peppers in Sainsburys. They seem very efficient with water and they don't let lots of chemicals run off into rivers, so that's nice. Not too sure about the rest of the environmental impact. Thanks for that heads up; I was not aware of the Thanet Earth farm/factory. It is just what the Dutch have done, only in their case a much more massive scale. The largest tomato greenhouse in the Netherlands is a staggering 175 acres!!! The total area under glass in the Netherlands is one and a half times the area of Manhatton. The Dutch has taken agriculture to another level, not just in terms of size and modernity, but developing new desease resistant species, etc. If the UK did this we could feed ourselves with salad products and not have to import on such a huge scale. www.agritecture.com/blog/2020/2/26/how-the-dutch-use-architecture-to-feed-the-worldA company called Plenty tried to headhunt a mate. They're looking at "stacking" greenhouses and using scanners to keep track of the plant health etc so they can target exactly when to water, harvest etc. I have to say I really like the idea if it means more fresh food grown locally and it lets us protect the countryside. With population growth there should be enough demand to keep normal farmers going as well, without pushing them to ruin the ground. The intensive farming in the US has been absolutely battering their aquifers and the soil loss is staggering. There could come a point where the kids or grandkids of today's farmers will have to just give up on outdoor farming.
|
|