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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Jun 18, 2019 9:17:17 GMT
As for owning a second home and renting I don't have an issue with it per se, if you have a second home it's likely you've worked hard and deserve your success. The only caveat I have is that good landlords seem in the absolute minority and though I'm in a great place now, in the past half the battle has seemingly just being fighting the owner about one issue or another. Thanks mate, appreciate the validation. Here's the thing, I ain't the son of a wealthy aristocrat. I haven't inherited half a million quid and hoovered up a truck load of properties to make an easy buck. I continue to work 5 days a week and actually, I can relate somewhat to @crapslinger and his motivations. For a several years (after the breakdown of my previous relationship) I didn't have a pot to piss in really. When I look back, I can't believe how lucky I was that life seemingly didn't deal me one of those unfortunate blows, like a broken down car or burst plumbing main during that entire time. I would have genuinely been up shit creek without a paddle. Life has more than made up for it since then, however I am now financially far better off and able to manage life's curveballs. I purchased my house on a 5 year product while in my relationship and while she took off scot-free, I was left with the mortgage on a house I didn't want and struggling to pay the bills. I lived cheque to cheque and even took out an overdraft just to pad it a little. Subsequently, through a lot of hard work, I landed a lucrative contracting role which helped secure my future financially. However, as I am career driven and constantly looking towards the future, after several months of contracting..... I took on a permanent role AS WELL! I often did my contracting work on Sunday's when others were recovering from their away day hangovers in bed with Pizza.... I was sat with double vision looking at a computer screen. There are many weeks I tipped the 80 hour barrier..... I am still contracting and working a permanent role now, but I've dialled back the contracting work to a more manageable amount and ultimately, this is a great way to supplement the income from my permanent role.... oh and btw, they're on about promoting me in my permanent role because I've performed so well this year (despite doing a second job as well). ....but I'm just a lazy opportunist really. Great stuff, it's just a throwaway term used by people to criticise bad landlords but I find it denigrates those like yourself that actually care and have operated appropriately to reach that point. I think when it gets to the point you mentioned about hoovering up properties it can start to become a problem, my previous landlord owned around 20 houses across the East Midlands and frankly didn't give a shit because A: he'd always have tenants and B: the sheer volume of rent he was picking up means that there was little to no motivation to change anything. But he's a genuinely dishonest person, a quick google search quickly revealed his Brother (part owner of the letting firm) was a convicted slumlord who kept houses in abhorrent condition and attempted to run off with some deposits taken from some naive students. He himself has been done for VAT fraud after claiming to start a business, buying items minus VAT and then not using them for business But that's not to say someone who owns 20 properties is inherently a bad landlord or person, which is an important distinction to make. But housing is now effectively my last major "life" worry, everything else I'm confident I have enough control over especially workwise.
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Post by bathstoke on Jun 18, 2019 9:41:52 GMT
Thanks mate, appreciate the validation. Here's the thing, I ain't the son of a wealthy aristocrat. I haven't inherited half a million quid and hoovered up a truck load of properties to make an easy buck. I continue to work 5 days a week and actually, I can relate somewhat to @crapslinger and his motivations. For a several years (after the breakdown of my previous relationship) I didn't have a pot to piss in really. When I look back, I can't believe how lucky I was that life seemingly didn't deal me one of those unfortunate blows, like a broken down car or burst plumbing main during that entire time. I would have genuinely been up shit creek without a paddle. Life has more than made up for it since then, however I am now financially far better off and able to manage life's curveballs. I purchased my house on a 5 year product while in my relationship and while she took off scot-free, I was left with the mortgage on a house I didn't want and struggling to pay the bills. I lived cheque to cheque and even took out an overdraft just to pad it a little. Subsequently, through a lot of hard work, I landed a lucrative contracting role which helped secure my future financially. However, as I am career driven and constantly looking towards the future, after several months of contracting..... I took on a permanent role AS WELL! I often did my contracting work on Sunday's when others were recovering from their away day hangovers in bed with Pizza.... I was sat with double vision looking at a computer screen. There are many weeks I tipped the 80 hour barrier..... I am still contracting and working a permanent role now, but I've dialled back the contracting work to a more manageable amount and ultimately, this is a great way to supplement the income from my permanent role.... oh and btw, they're on about promoting me in my permanent role because I've performed so well this year (despite doing a second job as well). ....but I'm just a lazy opportunist really. Great stuff, it's just a throwaway term used by people to criticise bad landlords but I find it denigrates those like yourself that actually care and have operated appropriately to reach that point. I think when it gets to the point you mentioned about hoovering up properties it can start to become a problem, my previous landlord owned around 20 houses across the East Midlands and frankly didn't give a shit because A: he'd always have tenants and B: the sheer volume of rent he was picking up means that there was little to no motivation to change anything. But he's a genuinely dishonest person, a quick google search quickly revealed his Brother (part owner of the letting firm) was a convicted slumlord who kept houses in abhorrent condition and attempted to run off with some deposits taken from some naive students. He himself has been done for VAT fraud after claiming to start a business, buying items minus VAT and then not using them for business But that's not to say someone who owns 20 properties is inherently a bad landlord or person, which is an important distinction to make. But housing is now effectively my last major "life" worry, everything else I'm confident I have enough control over especially workwise. Hence the ‘Rent Reaping”. By the sound, they’re not doing any worthwhile endeavour, just sitting around Reaping from others misfortune. Idle hands & all... These people are beyond contempt...
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Post by metalhead on Jun 18, 2019 10:32:16 GMT
Thanks mate, appreciate the validation. Here's the thing, I ain't the son of a wealthy aristocrat. I haven't inherited half a million quid and hoovered up a truck load of properties to make an easy buck. I continue to work 5 days a week and actually, I can relate somewhat to @crapslinger and his motivations. For a several years (after the breakdown of my previous relationship) I didn't have a pot to piss in really. When I look back, I can't believe how lucky I was that life seemingly didn't deal me one of those unfortunate blows, like a broken down car or burst plumbing main during that entire time. I would have genuinely been up shit creek without a paddle. Life has more than made up for it since then, however I am now financially far better off and able to manage life's curveballs. I purchased my house on a 5 year product while in my relationship and while she took off scot-free, I was left with the mortgage on a house I didn't want and struggling to pay the bills. I lived cheque to cheque and even took out an overdraft just to pad it a little. Subsequently, through a lot of hard work, I landed a lucrative contracting role which helped secure my future financially. However, as I am career driven and constantly looking towards the future, after several months of contracting..... I took on a permanent role AS WELL! I often did my contracting work on Sunday's when others were recovering from their away day hangovers in bed with Pizza.... I was sat with double vision looking at a computer screen. There are many weeks I tipped the 80 hour barrier..... I am still contracting and working a permanent role now, but I've dialled back the contracting work to a more manageable amount and ultimately, this is a great way to supplement the income from my permanent role.... oh and btw, they're on about promoting me in my permanent role because I've performed so well this year (despite doing a second job as well). ....but I'm just a lazy opportunist really. Great stuff, it's just a throwaway term used by people to criticise bad landlords but I find it denigrates those like yourself that actually care and have operated appropriately to reach that point. I think when it gets to the point you mentioned about hoovering up properties it can start to become a problem, my previous landlord owned around 20 houses across the East Midlands and frankly didn't give a shit because A: he'd always have tenants and B: the sheer volume of rent he was picking up means that there was little to no motivation to change anything. But he's a genuinely dishonest person, a quick google search quickly revealed his Brother (part owner of the letting firm) was a convicted slumlord who kept houses in abhorrent condition and attempted to run off with some deposits taken from some naive students. He himself has been done for VAT fraud after claiming to start a business, buying items minus VAT and then not using them for business But that's not to say someone who owns 20 properties is inherently a bad landlord or person, which is an important distinction to make. But housing is now effectively my last major "life" worry, everything else I'm confident I have enough control over especially workwise. The only reason I am considering buying a house, is because there are no other safe ways of investing the money I have accrued. I could bang it on the stock market and lose everything. Chuck it in an ISA and lose money every year. Stick it in a pension and hope that some 23 year old junior banker has a fucking clue about how to float it..... I mean what are the options at this point? The only options are: you invest in bricks and mortar, you invest in possessions such as a classic car, you dedicate yourself to living an affluent lifestyle. The third option is off the table. I am too set in my ways to go out and buy a brand new Audi S4 and start spunking money on expensive gear. I am happy living a modest lifestyle. So it's either bricks and mortar or value accruing possessions.... which no doubt is morally wrong because reasons.
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Post by metalhead on Jun 18, 2019 10:34:47 GMT
Great stuff, it's just a throwaway term used by people to criticise bad landlords but I find it denigrates those like yourself that actually care and have operated appropriately to reach that point. I think when it gets to the point you mentioned about hoovering up properties it can start to become a problem, my previous landlord owned around 20 houses across the East Midlands and frankly didn't give a shit because A: he'd always have tenants and B: the sheer volume of rent he was picking up means that there was little to no motivation to change anything. But he's a genuinely dishonest person, a quick google search quickly revealed his Brother (part owner of the letting firm) was a convicted slumlord who kept houses in abhorrent condition and attempted to run off with some deposits taken from some naive students. He himself has been done for VAT fraud after claiming to start a business, buying items minus VAT and then not using them for business But that's not to say someone who owns 20 properties is inherently a bad landlord or person, which is an important distinction to make. But housing is now effectively my last major "life" worry, everything else I'm confident I have enough control over especially workwise. Hence the ‘Rent Reaping”. By the sound, they’re not doing any worthwhile endeavour, just sitting around Reaping from others misfortune. Idle hands & all... These people are beyond contempt... You ignored my post.... We both know I aren't your typical capitalist scummer. I happened to have been very lucky to have been blessed with motivation and desire to push myself (at times to the to the point of making me ill) and way beyond some of my school friends who have been quite happy to accept second best from their life. Let's not forget, I have had to compromise in other areas of my life, that I have seriously neglected. That doesn't mean I want them to live in the slums or anything and we both know I left lean..... but equally you're almost suggesting that I should be penalised for the fruits of meritocracy. Come on mate, debate me on this. Shit or get off the pot..... or don't and come across like a complete vacuous echo chamber.
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Post by bathstoke on Jun 18, 2019 11:20:26 GMT
Hence the ‘Rent Reaping”. By the sound, they’re not doing any worthwhile endeavour, just sitting around Reaping from others misfortune. Idle hands & all... These people are beyond contempt... You ignored my post.... We both know I aren't your typical capitalist scummer. I happened to have been very lucky to have been blessed with motivation and desire to push myself (at times to the to the point of making me ill) and way beyond some of my school friends who have been quite happy to accept second best from their life. Let's not forget, I have had to compromise in other areas of my life, that I have seriously neglected. That doesn't mean I want them to live in the slums or anything and we both know I left lean..... but equally you're almost suggesting that I should be penalised for the fruits of meritocracy. Come on mate, debate me on this. Shit or get off the pot..... or don't and come across like a complete vacuous echo chamber. I get that you’re a personality type, we all are & yours seems to have some traits of perfectionism. On an Enneagram test, I’d say you’re a Type 1 www.eclecticenergies.com/enneagram/test-2Anyway, we all make decisions & act upon them & they have consequences... BTW, I’m a Type 4
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Post by metalhead on Jun 18, 2019 11:23:31 GMT
You ignored my post.... We both know I aren't your typical capitalist scummer. I happened to have been very lucky to have been blessed with motivation and desire to push myself (at times to the to the point of making me ill) and way beyond some of my school friends who have been quite happy to accept second best from their life. Let's not forget, I have had to compromise in other areas of my life, that I have seriously neglected. That doesn't mean I want them to live in the slums or anything and we both know I left lean..... but equally you're almost suggesting that I should be penalised for the fruits of meritocracy. Come on mate, debate me on this. Shit or get off the pot..... or don't and come across like a complete vacuous echo chamber. I get that you’re a personality type, we all are & yours seems to have some traits of perfectionism. On an Enneagram test, I’d say you’re a Type 1 www.eclecticenergies.com/enneagram/test-2Anyway, we all make decisions & act upon them & they have consequences... BTW, I’m a Type 4 Did it a few weeks ago.... Type 4..... hence being entirely dissatisfied with my life.
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Post by bathstoke on Jun 18, 2019 11:29:19 GMT
I get that you’re a personality type, we all are & yours seems to have some traits of perfectionism. On an Enneagram test, I’d say you’re a Type 1 www.eclecticenergies.com/enneagram/test-2Anyway, we all make decisions & act upon them & they have consequences... BTW, I’m a Type 4 Did it a few weeks ago.... Type 4..... hence being entirely dissatisfied with my life. You need to embrace & own it. Some ❤️ To heights, We ❤️ To depths... The Horror!
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Post by metalhead on Jun 18, 2019 11:43:31 GMT
Did it a few weeks ago.... Type 4..... hence being entirely dissatisfied with my life. You need to embrace & own it. Some ❤️ To heights, We ❤️ To depths... The Horror! From what I've read, as a Type 4, things like money and career success, all of that lark (the things I have been able to achieve to a certain degree) are very much secondary to things like companionship and interpersonal relations. Ultimately, I have been through multiple failed relationships and as I pointed out in the thread about regrets I am 28 and utterly remorseful for the life I've lead. mickmillslovechild pointed out that the next 10 years shouldn't be filled with that remorse but the reality is, I've probably missed the boat in that regard. Still, we deal with the hand we've got and while I've been unable to maintain and satisfy those parts of my life, I have been able to get ahead in my career. That will hopefully land me in good stead for when I'm dying in an old folks home on my own I'm getting off topic. Talk to me about why I shouldn't buy a second house and why it makes me a lazy opportunist?
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Post by bathstoke on Jun 18, 2019 12:01:36 GMT
You need to embrace & own it. Some ❤️ To heights, We ❤️ To depths... The Horror! From what I've read, as a Type 4, things like money and career success, all of that lark (the things I have been able to achieve to a certain degree) are very much secondary to things like companionship and interpersonal relations. Ultimately, I have been through multiple failed relationships and as I pointed out in the thread about regrets I am 28 and utterly remorseful for the life I've lead. mickmillslovechild pointed out that the next 10 years shouldn't be filled with that remorse but the reality is, I've probably missed the boat in that regard. Still, we deal with the hand we've got and while I've been unable to maintain and satisfy those parts of my life, I have been able to get ahead in my career. That will hopefully land me in good stead for when I'm dying in an old folks home on my own I'm getting off topic. Talk to me about why I shouldn't buy a second house and why it makes me a lazy opportunist? You’re only 28, don’t be too hard on yourself, we all make mistakes, don’t become stymied by them. I don’t do financial advice...
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Post by metalhead on Jun 18, 2019 13:11:10 GMT
From what I've read, as a Type 4, things like money and career success, all of that lark (the things I have been able to achieve to a certain degree) are very much secondary to things like companionship and interpersonal relations. Ultimately, I have been through multiple failed relationships and as I pointed out in the thread about regrets I am 28 and utterly remorseful for the life I've lead. mickmillslovechild pointed out that the next 10 years shouldn't be filled with that remorse but the reality is, I've probably missed the boat in that regard. Still, we deal with the hand we've got and while I've been unable to maintain and satisfy those parts of my life, I have been able to get ahead in my career. That will hopefully land me in good stead for when I'm dying in an old folks home on my own I'm getting off topic. Talk to me about why I shouldn't buy a second house and why it makes me a lazy opportunist? You’re only 28, don’t be too hard on yourself, we all make mistakes, don’t become stymied by them. I don’t do financial advice... As much as I would love to feel optimistic, time is ticking in my opinion. I've spent the last, I don't know, 12-18 months going through the five stages of grief and I'm finally at acceptance. That isn't the place I want to be, but it's the place I am in. I have to accept my life, warts and all... I also have to be thankful that I have achieved some of the things I have. Maybe it's the pressures of the societal norms or what's deemed socially acceptable but I had certain life goals and expectations. I hoped to achieve most/all of these, preferably by the time I turned 30. At this point, there is almost a 0% chance of those being accomplished and once you tip into the 30 bracket, things change and you're not a young man anymore... I should be heading into my 30's with different priorities but I'm essentially playing catch-up. I've over-achieved in my career very young, possibly to the detriment of my other life goals. That said, it was not intentional. I have tried, but I've been unfortunate and to some degree unlucky. Failed relationships (one particularly long one) is where your time ends up being wasted. I always wanted to be a dad before I turned 30, but short of getting some one-night stand knocked up, that ain't going to happen. I wasn't asking for financial advice, I was asking you to explain why I'm a lazy opportunist and perhaps where I could use my money to be less detrimental to the weakest in society (as you appear to be suggesting in the original post)?
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Post by bathstoke on Jun 18, 2019 14:09:23 GMT
You’re only 28, don’t be too hard on yourself, we all make mistakes, don’t become stymied by them. I don’t do financial advice... As much as I would love to feel optimistic, time is ticking in my opinion. I've spent the last, I don't know, 12-18 months going through the five stages of grief and I'm finally at acceptance. That isn't the place I want to be, but it's the place I am in. I have to accept my life, warts and all... I also have to be thankful that I have achieved some of the things I have. Maybe it's the pressures of the societal norms or what's deemed socially acceptable but I had certain life goals and expectations. I hoped to achieve most/all of these, preferably by the time I turned 30. At this point, there is almost a 0% chance of those being accomplished and once you tip into the 30 bracket, things change and you're not a young man anymore... I should be heading into my 30's with different priorities but I'm essentially playing catch-up. I've over-achieved in my career very young, possibly to the detriment of my other life goals. That said, it was not intentional. I have tried, but I've been unfortunate and to some degree unlucky. Failed relationships (one particularly long one) is where your time ends up being wasted. I always wanted to be a dad before I turned 30, but short of getting some one-night stand knocked up, that ain't going to happen. I didn’t have my 1st till I was 35, so you’ve got loads of time. I heard that property is on the downturn.
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Post by metalhead on Jun 18, 2019 14:25:44 GMT
As much as I would love to feel optimistic, time is ticking in my opinion. I've spent the last, I don't know, 12-18 months going through the five stages of grief and I'm finally at acceptance. That isn't the place I want to be, but it's the place I am in. I have to accept my life, warts and all... I also have to be thankful that I have achieved some of the things I have. Maybe it's the pressures of the societal norms or what's deemed socially acceptable but I had certain life goals and expectations. I hoped to achieve most/all of these, preferably by the time I turned 30. At this point, there is almost a 0% chance of those being accomplished and once you tip into the 30 bracket, things change and you're not a young man anymore... I should be heading into my 30's with different priorities but I'm essentially playing catch-up. I've over-achieved in my career very young, possibly to the detriment of my other life goals. That said, it was not intentional. I have tried, but I've been unfortunate and to some degree unlucky. Failed relationships (one particularly long one) is where your time ends up being wasted. I always wanted to be a dad before I turned 30, but short of getting some one-night stand knocked up, that ain't going to happen. I didn’t have my 1st till I was 35, so you’ve got loads of time. I heard that property is on the downturn.You're still not telling me why I'm a lazy opportunist I think we both know it's because I'm not really a lazy opportunist. I've worked hard and now am just looking for a way to ensure my money can help me when I'm dying in a home. There are clearly some people taking the piss but we shouldn't generalise.... You know that
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Post by bathstoke on Jun 18, 2019 15:15:53 GMT
I didn’t have my 1st till I was 35, so you’ve got loads of time. I heard that property is on the downturn.You're still not telling me why I'm a lazy opportunist I think we both know it's because I'm not really a lazy opportunist. I've worked hard and now am just looking for a way to ensure my money can help me when I'm dying in a home. There are clearly some people taking the piss but we shouldn't generalise.... You know that When we all just take the p!$$ a little bit, it adds up & then we’re drowning in it. But hey, it’s a free country. For now...
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Post by bathstoke on Jun 19, 2019 6:41:00 GMT
I didn’t have my 1st till I was 35, so you’ve got loads of time. I heard that property is on the downturn.You're still not telling me why I'm a lazy opportunist I think we both know it's because I'm not really a lazy opportunist. I've worked hard and now am just looking for a way to ensure my money can help me when I'm dying in a home. There are clearly some people taking the piss but we shouldn't generalise.... You know that Here’s a thought for you Metal, The DWP is the Governments greatest outlaying dept & a huge proportion of their outlay is via Housing Benefits. Basically, we the people are paying these landlords inflated rents because the market has been skewed. It’s difficult to get precise figures on how much the cost is, but it’s probably in excess of £25b. Stick that on the side of a bus...
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Post by metalhead on Jun 19, 2019 9:13:29 GMT
You're still not telling me why I'm a lazy opportunist I think we both know it's because I'm not really a lazy opportunist. I've worked hard and now am just looking for a way to ensure my money can help me when I'm dying in a home. There are clearly some people taking the piss but we shouldn't generalise.... You know that Here’s a thought for you Metal, The DWP is the Governments greatest outlaying dept & a huge proportion of their outlay is via Housing Benefits. Basically, we the people are paying these landlords inflated rents because the market has been skewed. It’s difficult to get precise figures on how much the cost is, but it’s probably in excess of £25b. Stick that on the side of a bus... Who said this was a money making venture for me? My aim was to cover the costs of the second mortgage and at best make a trivial amount on top to cover any expenses Like I said, you're generalising me with someone who's making a living out of it. This is nothing more than a glorified pension to me.
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Post by bathstoke on Jun 19, 2019 9:22:43 GMT
Here’s a thought for you Metal, The DWP is the Governments greatest outlaying dept & a huge proportion of their outlay is via Housing Benefits. Basically, we the people are paying these landlords inflated rents because the market has been skewed. It’s difficult to get precise figures on how much the cost is, but it’s probably in excess of £25b. Stick that on the side of a bus... Who said this was a money making venture for me? My aim was to cover the costs of the second mortgage and at best make a trivial amount on top to cover any expenses Like I said, you're generalising me with someone who's making a living out of it. This is nothing more than a glorified pension to me. I’m talking generally Metal, how can I be pointing you out when you don’t have a second home. I’m just making social comment on a news article. 2nd hand news...
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Post by metalhead on Jun 19, 2019 10:09:35 GMT
Who said this was a money making venture for me? My aim was to cover the costs of the second mortgage and at best make a trivial amount on top to cover any expenses Like I said, you're generalising me with someone who's making a living out of it. This is nothing more than a glorified pension to me. I’m talking generally Metal, how can I be pointing you out when you don’t have a second home. I’m just making social comment on a news article. 2nd hand news... It's something I'm considering though, so say I go ahead and actually buy a second home and by 'buy' I really mean take out a mortgage on it....
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Post by swampmongrel on Jun 21, 2019 19:24:18 GMT
Great stuff, it's just a throwaway term used by people to criticise bad landlords but I find it denigrates those like yourself that actually care and have operated appropriately to reach that point. I think when it gets to the point you mentioned about hoovering up properties it can start to become a problem, my previous landlord owned around 20 houses across the East Midlands and frankly didn't give a shit because A: he'd always have tenants and B: the sheer volume of rent he was picking up means that there was little to no motivation to change anything. But he's a genuinely dishonest person, a quick google search quickly revealed his Brother (part owner of the letting firm) was a convicted slumlord who kept houses in abhorrent condition and attempted to run off with some deposits taken from some naive students. He himself has been done for VAT fraud after claiming to start a business, buying items minus VAT and then not using them for business But that's not to say someone who owns 20 properties is inherently a bad landlord or person, which is an important distinction to make. But housing is now effectively my last major "life" worry, everything else I'm confident I have enough control over especially workwise. The only reason I am considering buying a house, is because there are no other safe ways of investing the money I have accrued. I could bang it on the stock market and lose everything. Chuck it in an ISA and lose money every year. Stick it in a pension and hope that some 23 year old junior banker has a fucking clue about how to float it..... I mean what are the options at this point? The only options are: you invest in bricks and mortar, you invest in possessions such as a classic car, you dedicate yourself to living an affluent lifestyle. The third option is off the table. I am too set in my ways to go out and buy a brand new Audi S4 and start spunking money on expensive gear. I am happy living a modest lifestyle. So it's either bricks and mortar or value accruing possessions.... which no doubt is morally wrong because reasons. Hmmmm. Otherwise I think you're a very smart guy but this post displays quite a lot of misunderstanding of finance. Different assets all carry risks, housing, stocks, bond, gold etc. I know of no situation where an investor banging it on the stock market has 'lost everything'(1) at least not if they're properly diversified and very few 'professional' investors (I'm not one, just an interested amateur) would argue that housing was necessarily safer than stocks. One advantage for the individual investor, with housing, is that you can borrow to invest, 'leverage'. Indeed for most people it's the only easy way that they can leverage to invest. Leverage is very nice on the upside because it can boost your returns but it can be seriously harmful on the downside. Housing has been a good investment in the UK for the past 30 years but that has to be partly due to very favourable tax treatment (2) and declining interest rates over that time. If these factors reverse, and they might, Buy to Let could look at lot less attractive think increasing finance costs, falling prices, repossessions etc. If it happened at a time when your personal finances were also less than robust (redundancy, sickness)it could be seriously detrimental. In a bad scenario a mortgage lender could seize the house, sell it a knock down price and, come after you for any short fall. Of course, that's an extreme scenario but it's happened many times in the past. Housing is fine as an investment but it certainly isn't 'safe' or any 'safer' than stocks. At worst an ordinary share holder can only lose there initial investment, that isn't the case with Buy to Let where abank could come after all your other wealth and future earnings. The other problem with Buy to Let is you can't diversify, you buy one house and your investment is entirely concentrated in a single pile of bricks on a single street with the risks which that brings. Joe Public, loves Buy to Let and they may have good reason to do so, but few, in my opinion, really understand the risks or the benefits of other investments. Stocks and shares are risky as well but, once you strip out the advantage of cheap leverage, they have usually beaten residential property. You should take a look at the various indices (FTSE 100 UK) S&P 500 US etc.) and you'll see that over the long term (10 years or more) they almost always perform very well and especially so because you will also be collecting dividends year after year. If you are properly diversified (i.e. spread across stock in many companies in many countries) your chances of losses are significantly reduced (3.). Average annual returns from the S&P 500 over the past 50 years have been about 10% (7% after inflation) which isn't too shabby considering that all you have to do is buy the index and wait. The other thing that struck me about your post was the negativity towards pensions. This is also, in my opinion, a failing of financial education. The tax advantages of pensions are too good to ignore (4) and if there is any employer matching going on at your workplace it is generally madness not to utilize it. It's also entirely possible to manage your own pension (as a SIPP) which allows you to utilize the tax breaks while keeping control of it and avoiding excessive fees. You can also hold shares within an ISA and ISAs are also quite generous from a tax point of view especially if you hope to build up a large amount of wealth for later life. Pensions have a bad reputation because people don't really understand them and the (very few) occasions where they have been badly run pensions are high in the public conciousness. However, most participants in the vast majority of schemes will do very well out of them. There's plenty of options out there. Ideally, you want to build a portfolio of cash, bonds, stocks, real estate (and maybe also a little bit of gold) in as tax efficient way as possible whilst keeping fees to a minimum. If you're interested you should read 'Smarter Investing' (Tim Hale) which is a good introduction. I also follow the 'Monevator' blog which has good information on passive investing/pensions/ISAs etc. I should note that I am not qualified to give financial advice, and mostly speak bollocks, so you should do your own research.1. Did you know that after the 1929 stock market crash an investor spread across the Dow Jones index would have got there money back 7 years later if they had not sold during hte lows? 2. Tax rules on 'Buy to Let' have changed recently making it relatively less attractive (search 'Section 24 Buy to Let' if you're interested) 3. Look up 'Passive Investing' which is cheap and easy to do with companies like Vanguard or Blackrock (IShares) (available in the UK). 4. If a higher rate tax payer contributes 100 pound to a pension it becaomes 140 after the tax brak (before any investment returns over the years).
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Post by metalhead on Jun 21, 2019 19:30:10 GMT
The only reason I am considering buying a house, is because there are no other safe ways of investing the money I have accrued. I could bang it on the stock market and lose everything. Chuck it in an ISA and lose money every year. Stick it in a pension and hope that some 23 year old junior banker has a fucking clue about how to float it..... I mean what are the options at this point? The only options are: you invest in bricks and mortar, you invest in possessions such as a classic car, you dedicate yourself to living an affluent lifestyle. The third option is off the table. I am too set in my ways to go out and buy a brand new Audi S4 and start spunking money on expensive gear. I am happy living a modest lifestyle. So it's either bricks and mortar or value accruing possessions.... which no doubt is morally wrong because reasons. Hmmmm. Otherwise I think you're a very smart guy but this post displays quite a lot of misunderstanding of finance. Different assets all carry risks, housing, stocks, bond, gold etc. I know of no situation where an investor banging it on the stock market has 'lost everything'(1) at least not if they're properly diversified and very few 'professional' investors (I'm not one, just an interested amateur) would argue that housing was necessarily safer than stocks. One advantage for the individual investor, with housing, is that you can borrow to invest, 'leverage'. Indeed for most people it's the only easy way that they can leverage to invest. Leverage is very nice on the upside because it can boost your returns but it can be seriously harmful on the downside. Housing has been a good investment in the UK for the past 30 years but that has to be partly due to very favourable tax treatment (2) and declining interest rates over that time. If these factors reverse, and they might, Buy to Let could look at lot less attractive think increasing finance costs, falling prices, repossessions etc. If it happened at a time when your personal finances were also less than robust (redundancy, sickness)it could be seriously detrimental. In a bad scenario a mortgage lender could seize the house, sell it a knock down price and, come after you for any short fall. Of course, that's an extreme scenario but it's happened many times in the past. Housing is fine as an investment but it certainly isn't 'safe' or any 'safer' than stocks. At worst an ordinary share holder can only lose there initial investment, that isn't the case with Buy to Let where abank could come after all your other wealth and future earnings. The other problem with Buy to Let is you can't diversify, you buy one house and your investment is entirely concentrated in a single pile of bricks on a single street with the risks which that brings. Joe Public, loves Buy to Let and they may have good reason to do so, but few, in my opinion, really understand the risks or the benefits of other investments. Stocks and shares are risky as well but, once you strip out the advantage of cheap leverage, they have usually beaten residential property. You should take a look at the various indices (FTSE 100 UK) S&P 500 US etc.) and you'll see that over the long term (10 years or more) they almost always perform very well and especially so because you will also be collecting dividends year after year. If you are properly diversified (i.e. spread across stock in many companies in many countries) your chances of losses are significantly reduced (3.). Average annual returns from the S&P 500 over the past 50 years have been about 10% (7% after inflation) which isn't too shabby considering that all you have to do is buy the index and wait. The other thing that struck me about your post was the negativity towards pensions. This is also, in my opinion, a failing of financial education. The tax advantages of pensions are too good to ignore (4) and if there is any employer matching going on at your workplace it is generally madness not to utilize it. It's also entirely possible to manage your own pension (as a SIPP) which allows you to utilize the tax breaks while keeping control of it and avoiding excessive fees. You can also hold shares within an ISA and ISAs are also quite generous from a tax point of view especially if you hope to build up a large amount of wealth for later life. Pensions have a bad reputation because people don't really understand them and the (very few) occasions where they have been badly run pensions are high in the public conciousness. However, most participants in the vast majority of schemes will do very well out of them. There's plenty of options out there. Ideally, you want to build a portfolio of cash, bonds, stocks, real estate (and maybe also a little bit of gold) in as tax efficient way as possible whilst keeping fees to a minimum. If you're interested you should read 'Smarter Investing' (Tim Hale) which is a good introduction. I also follow the 'Monevator' blog which has good information on passive investing/pensions/ISAs etc. I should note that I am not qualified to give financial advice, and mostly speak bollocks, so you should do your own research.1. Did you know that after the 1929 stock market crash an investor spread across the Dow Jones index would have got there money back 7 years later if they had not sold during hte lows? 2. Tax rules on 'Buy to Let' have changed recently making it relatively less attractive (search 'Section 24 Buy to Let' if you're interested) 3. Look up 'Passive Investing' which is cheap and easy to do with companies like Vanguard or Blackrock (IShares) (available in the UK). 4. If a higher rate tax payer contributes 100 pound to a pension it becaomes 140 after the tax brak (before any investment returns over the years). This looks like anything but bollocks and I'll read it in further detail on my laptop.
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