|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 5, 2023 16:10:11 GMT
The question asked was " do we want to be in the EU". It is possible to want to not be in. What happens after leaving is down to current goverments , including the EU. Whilst we were in the EU there was very little knowledge, understanding or debate on what was going on in the EU by the UK population....leave it to them. [ For example have a look at the CRITICISMS of the Common Agricultural Policy on this link, only Wikipedia, but all referenced..quite a list .designed to protect the French and landowners like Heseltine...NEVER popularly debated or raised in this country...but our MPs were in collusion with it en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Agricultural_PolicyYour criticism is largely aimed at the current government ( and actually the EU...if it were JUST a trading block things could have been different BUT it clearly states itself it is about Political and Economic union...I don't want that. Anyway I must not get drawn in and allow you to say" I told you so" ad infinitum....but surely some party should advocate joining lock , stock and barrel at the next election....The Maastrict treaty/ political and economic union. Why not?....it is the answer to all our problems. I know there was very little knowledge, understanding or debate on what was going on in the EU by the UK population! That’s why 52% who voted, voted to leave. They never should have been asked the question when they didn’t know what they were doing!? The more educated tended to vote remain. I wonder why? Perhaps because they had more knowledge, understanding and had been more likely to have debated what was going on in the EU than the average person in the UK. And by the way, farmers hate brexit. And on your blind support for CAP....apologies for the ridiculously long cut and paste from Wili...but there is alot of criticism( obviously all those in the know are already aware of it)..by the way. Parts of the EU stocks are exported with the use of export subsidies. It is argued that many African and Asian dairy, tomato,[37][38] grain and poultry farmers cannot keep up with cheap competition from Europe, thus their incomes can no longer provide for their families.[39] As such, the subsidies in the CAP are charged with preventing developing countries from exporting agricultural produce to the EU on a level playing field. The WTO Doha Development Round, which intended to increase global development, has stalled due to the developed countries' refusal to remove agricultural subsidies. According to the 2003 Human Development Report the average dairy cow in the year 2000 under the European Union received $913 in subsidies annually, while an average of $8 per human being was sent in aid to Sub-Saharan Africa. The 2005 Human Development Report states "The basic problem to be addressed in the WTO negotiations on agriculture can be summarized in three words: rich country subsidies Although most policy makers in Europe agree that they want to promote "family farms" and smaller scale production, the CAP in fact rewards larger producers.[45] Because the CAP has traditionally rewarded farmers who produce more, larger farms have benefited much more from subsidies than smaller farms. For example, a farm with 1000 hectares, earning an additional €100 per hectare will make an additional €100,000, while a 10 hectare farm will only make an extra €1000, disregarding economies of scale. As a result, most CAP subsidies have made their way to large scale farmers. The CAP has furthermore been criticized due to its effect on farmland bird populations. Between 1980 and 2009, the farmland bird population has decreased from 600 million to 300 million, implying a loss of 50%.[47] Among the species that have been hit hardest are the starling and the tree sparrow, which have both declined by 53%. The removal of hedgerows and ploughing over meadows are two significant factors that may have contributed to more efficient farming, but that also caused a decrease in farmland birds' habitats.[48] Some countries in the EU have larger agricultural sectors than others, notably France and Spain, and consequently receive more money under the CAP.[55] Countries such as the Netherlands and the United Kingdom have particularly urbanized populations and rely very little on agriculture as part of their economy (in the United Kingdom agriculture employs 1.6% of the total workforce and in the Netherlands 2.0%). The UK therefore receives less than half what France gets, despite a similar sized economy and population.[56] In spite of these declarations, the EU Commission proposed the continuation of cotton subsidies, coupled to production.[58] The coupling of the subsidy means that they will continue to have significant trade-distorting effect, most notably on West African farmers who are unable to compete with subsidised cotton.[59] NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE farming.co.uk/news/the-common-agricultural-policy-cap-is-not-fit-for-purposeen.nabu.de/topics/land-use/23474.html
|
|
|
Post by felonious on Jul 5, 2023 16:12:30 GMT
Are you saying you actually got to see your MEP? You must be the only one in the UK apart from Oggy who married his MEP Can you name a tangible positive of Brexit? Or do you only send attempted insults? It's not an insult it's a joke. Many apologies for having to point that out to you in public
|
|
|
Post by oggyoggy on Jul 5, 2023 16:41:06 GMT
Can you name a tangible positive of Brexit? Or do you only send attempted insults? It's not an insult it's a joke. Many apologies for having to point that out to you in public Sorry, I thought jokes were meant to be funny. Anyway, are you able to respond to a serious question? Name a tangible positive of brexit? Or will you resort to a joke (or an insult) or try and deflect and change the subject?
|
|
|
Post by oggyoggy on Jul 5, 2023 16:42:36 GMT
I know there was very little knowledge, understanding or debate on what was going on in the EU by the UK population! That’s why 52% who voted, voted to leave. They never should have been asked the question when they didn’t know what they were doing!? The more educated tended to vote remain. I wonder why? Perhaps because they had more knowledge, understanding and had been more likely to have debated what was going on in the EU than the average person in the UK. And by the way, farmers hate brexit. And on your blind support for CAP....apologies for the ridiculously long cut and paste from Wili...but there is alot of criticism( obviously all those in the know are already aware of it)..by the way. Parts of the EU stocks are exported with the use of export subsidies. It is argued that many African and Asian dairy, tomato,[37][38] grain and poultry farmers cannot keep up with cheap competition from Europe, thus their incomes can no longer provide for their families.[39] As such, the subsidies in the CAP are charged with preventing developing countries from exporting agricultural produce to the EU on a level playing field. The WTO Doha Development Round, which intended to increase global development, has stalled due to the developed countries' refusal to remove agricultural subsidies. According to the 2003 Human Development Report the average dairy cow in the year 2000 under the European Union received $913 in subsidies annually, while an average of $8 per human being was sent in aid to Sub-Saharan Africa. The 2005 Human Development Report states "The basic problem to be addressed in the WTO negotiations on agriculture can be summarized in three words: rich country subsidies Although most policy makers in Europe agree that they want to promote "family farms" and smaller scale production, the CAP in fact rewards larger producers.[45] Because the CAP has traditionally rewarded farmers who produce more, larger farms have benefited much more from subsidies than smaller farms. For example, a farm with 1000 hectares, earning an additional €100 per hectare will make an additional €100,000, while a 10 hectare farm will only make an extra €1000, disregarding economies of scale. As a result, most CAP subsidies have made their way to large scale farmers. The CAP has furthermore been criticized due to its effect on farmland bird populations. Between 1980 and 2009, the farmland bird population has decreased from 600 million to 300 million, implying a loss of 50%.[47] Among the species that have been hit hardest are the starling and the tree sparrow, which have both declined by 53%. The removal of hedgerows and ploughing over meadows are two significant factors that may have contributed to more efficient farming, but that also caused a decrease in farmland birds' habitats.[48] Some countries in the EU have larger agricultural sectors than others, notably France and Spain, and consequently receive more money under the CAP.[55] Countries such as the Netherlands and the United Kingdom have particularly urbanized populations and rely very little on agriculture as part of their economy (in the United Kingdom agriculture employs 1.6% of the total workforce and in the Netherlands 2.0%). The UK therefore receives less than half what France gets, despite a similar sized economy and population.[56] In spite of these declarations, the EU Commission proposed the continuation of cotton subsidies, coupled to production.[58] The coupling of the subsidy means that they will continue to have significant trade-distorting effect, most notably on West African farmers who are unable to compete with subsidised cotton.[59] NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE farming.co.uk/news/the-common-agricultural-policy-cap-is-not-fit-for-purposeen.nabu.de/topics/land-use/23474.htmlNot fit for purpose. Perhaps. But better than what we have now according to farmers: amp.theguardian.com/politics/2022/dec/29/uk-farmers-impact-brexit-trade-deal-losing-common-agricultural-policy
|
|
|
Post by oggyoggy on Jul 5, 2023 16:46:57 GMT
I know there was very little knowledge, understanding or debate on what was going on in the EU by the UK population! That’s why 52% who voted, voted to leave. They never should have been asked the question when they didn’t know what they were doing!? The more educated tended to vote remain. I wonder why? Perhaps because they had more knowledge, understanding and had been more likely to have debated what was going on in the EU than the average person in the UK. And by the way, farmers hate brexit. Perhaps we shoild have been given more knowledge before the vote to actually join. It is the current UK eurofanatics who want to disregard the nature of the EU...political and economic union. Tge public should not be asked anything...leave it to "them" whoever they are, everything was going smoothly then. Actually I do believe the orfinary voter understood the issue better than you do " Do you want to be part of the European Union" I wonder if the 3 major parties will welcome the votes of the thick , gullible racists at the next election...or do they cease to be that when they return to the Labour fold or take a chance on the Lib Dems? We absolutely should fully educate all when having a supposed once in a generation vote. You are absolutely spot on withyour first paragraph. So you would prefer to ask the public how to perform surgery on you rather than a surgeon? Odd. I much prefer parliamentary democracy to rule by referenda. I have studied EU and constitutional law. I apply EU law in my job. I definitely know more than average about the EU. The same way a surgeon knows more than average about medicine. The thickos, the racists, the gullible ones who you keep bringing up all have the same right to vote as you and me (well, depends if they are old as obviously this brexit government requires more stringent rules on voter ID for the young than the old!). If they couldn’t vote, obviously we would still be in the EU and much better off for it in every way.
|
|
|
Post by thehartshillbadger on Jul 5, 2023 16:48:32 GMT
It's not an insult it's a joke. Many apologies for having to point that out to you in public Sorry, I thought jokes were meant to be funny. Anyway, are you able to respond to a serious question? Name a tangible positive of brexit? Or will you resort to a joke (or an insult) or try and deflect and change the subject? I thought that until I stumbled (pardon the pun) upon The Last Leg on that fateful Friday evening a while back😉
|
|
|
Post by oggyoggy on Jul 5, 2023 16:49:43 GMT
Sorry, I thought jokes were meant to be funny. Anyway, are you able to respond to a serious question? Name a tangible positive of brexit? Or will you resort to a joke (or an insult) or try and deflect and change the subject? I thought that until I stumbled (pardon the pun) upon The Last Leg on that fateful Friday evening a while back😉 Because of the bad joke?
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 5, 2023 16:52:03 GMT
And on your blind support for CAP....apologies for the ridiculously long cut and paste from Wili...but there is alot of criticism( obviously all those in the know are already aware of it)..by the way. Parts of the EU stocks are exported with the use of export subsidies. It is argued that many African and Asian dairy, tomato,[37][38] grain and poultry farmers cannot keep up with cheap competition from Europe, thus their incomes can no longer provide for their families.[39] As such, the subsidies in the CAP are charged with preventing developing countries from exporting agricultural produce to the EU on a level playing field. The WTO Doha Development Round, which intended to increase global development, has stalled due to the developed countries' refusal to remove agricultural subsidies. According to the 2003 Human Development Report the average dairy cow in the year 2000 under the European Union received $913 in subsidies annually, while an average of $8 per human being was sent in aid to Sub-Saharan Africa. The 2005 Human Development Report states "The basic problem to be addressed in the WTO negotiations on agriculture can be summarized in three words: rich country subsidies Although most policy makers in Europe agree that they want to promote "family farms" and smaller scale production, the CAP in fact rewards larger producers.[45] Because the CAP has traditionally rewarded farmers who produce more, larger farms have benefited much more from subsidies than smaller farms. For example, a farm with 1000 hectares, earning an additional €100 per hectare will make an additional €100,000, while a 10 hectare farm will only make an extra €1000, disregarding economies of scale. As a result, most CAP subsidies have made their way to large scale farmers. The CAP has furthermore been criticized due to its effect on farmland bird populations. Between 1980 and 2009, the farmland bird population has decreased from 600 million to 300 million, implying a loss of 50%.[47] Among the species that have been hit hardest are the starling and the tree sparrow, which have both declined by 53%. The removal of hedgerows and ploughing over meadows are two significant factors that may have contributed to more efficient farming, but that also caused a decrease in farmland birds' habitats.[48] Some countries in the EU have larger agricultural sectors than others, notably France and Spain, and consequently receive more money under the CAP.[55] Countries such as the Netherlands and the United Kingdom have particularly urbanized populations and rely very little on agriculture as part of their economy (in the United Kingdom agriculture employs 1.6% of the total workforce and in the Netherlands 2.0%). The UK therefore receives less than half what France gets, despite a similar sized economy and population.[56] In spite of these declarations, the EU Commission proposed the continuation of cotton subsidies, coupled to production.[58] The coupling of the subsidy means that they will continue to have significant trade-distorting effect, most notably on West African farmers who are unable to compete with subsidised cotton.[59] NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE farming.co.uk/news/the-common-agricultural-policy-cap-is-not-fit-for-purposeen.nabu.de/topics/land-use/23474.htmlNot fit for purpose. Perhaps. But better than what we have now according to farmers: amp.theguardian.com/politics/2022/dec/29/uk-farmers-impact-brexit-trade-deal-losing-common-agricultural-policyThe " not fit for purpose" refers to wider concerns than just the UK,perhaps tgat doesn't matter to you. What we have now is down to our politicians, not Brexit. Unfortunately we do have few of calibre and vision at the moment.
|
|
|
Post by oggyoggy on Jul 5, 2023 16:57:39 GMT
The " not fit for purpose" refers to wider concerns than just the UK,perhaps tgat doesn't matter to you. What we have now is down to our politicians, not Brexit. Unfortunately we do have few of calibre and vision at the moment. In that case, name 5 things you would do to make brexit the massive success we were promised. Considering the people who promised the great brexit were the ones who delivered it, i would suggest the problem lies with brexit itself. It just isn’t as good as the alternative.
|
|
|
Post by felonious on Jul 5, 2023 16:57:43 GMT
It's not an insult it's a joke. Many apologies for having to point that out to you in public Sorry, I thought jokes were meant to be funny. Anyway, are you able to respond to a serious question? Name a tangible positive of brexit? Or will you resort to a joke (or an insult) or try and deflect and change the subject? I try not to get involved with very dull people and unfortunately you're proving to be as dull as ever. I've said probably everything I've ever said on Brexit it's done and been done to death. You don't interest me on any level on any subject. You're part of an ever growing band of soulless posters on here. If I ever needed confirmation about you then your pathetic pointless pursuit of Badger a few months back was more than enough. Get a life before it's too late.
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 5, 2023 16:59:44 GMT
Perhaps we shoild have been given more knowledge before the vote to actually join. It is the current UK eurofanatics who want to disregard the nature of the EU...political and economic union. Tge public should not be asked anything...leave it to "them" whoever they are, everything was going smoothly then. Actually I do believe the orfinary voter understood the issue better than you do " Do you want to be part of the European Union" I wonder if the 3 major parties will welcome the votes of the thick , gullible racists at the next election...or do they cease to be that when they return to the Labour fold or take a chance on the Lib Dems? We absolutely should fully educate all when having a supposed once in a generation vote. You are absolutely spot on withyour first paragraph. So you would prefer to ask the public how to perform surgery on you rather than a surgeon? Odd. I much prefer parliamentary democracy to rule by referenda. I have studied EU and constitutional law. I apply EU law in my job. I definitely know more than average about the EU. The same way a surgeon knows more than average about medicine. The thickos, the racists, the gullible ones who you keep bringing up all have the same right to vote as you and me (well, depends if they are old as obviously this brexit government requires more stringent rules on voter ID for the young than the old!). If they couldn’t vote, obviously we would still be in the EU and much better off for it in every way. I have studied EU and constitutional law myself and still do so with students who study law. I don't think you need to have done so in order to have an opinion or to vote. It would be easy to make a case that none of us knows enough about anything to vote on anything. In particular , perhaps especially in politics, the future csnnot be predicted. Roughly 18m people believed it was important enough to vote AND tgey each had their reasons, as valid as yours and mine. I would not presume to be condescending. There are clever people than me( and possibly even you) on either side of the argument...it seems to be your side who continuslly tries to belittle and insult fellow citizens. The voting demographics is a red herring really. Perhaps we should have had a vote to go in.
|
|
|
Post by oggyoggy on Jul 5, 2023 17:01:11 GMT
Sorry, I thought jokes were meant to be funny. Anyway, are you able to respond to a serious question? Name a tangible positive of brexit? Or will you resort to a joke (or an insult) or try and deflect and change the subject? I try not to get involved with very dull people and unfortunately you're proving to be as dull as ever. I've said probably everything I've ever said on Brexit it's done and been done to death. You don't interest me on any level on any subject. You're part of an ever growing band of soulless posters on here. If I ever needed confirmation about you then your pathetic pointless pursuit of Badger a few months back was more than enough. Get a life before it's too late. You cannot help yourself! Asked a question you deflect and insult. So predictable and it completely undermines your position. Why are you on a message board if not to debate?
|
|
|
Post by oggyoggy on Jul 5, 2023 17:04:10 GMT
We absolutely should fully educate all when having a supposed once in a generation vote. You are absolutely spot on withyour first paragraph. So you would prefer to ask the public how to perform surgery on you rather than a surgeon? Odd. I much prefer parliamentary democracy to rule by referenda. I have studied EU and constitutional law. I apply EU law in my job. I definitely know more than average about the EU. The same way a surgeon knows more than average about medicine. The thickos, the racists, the gullible ones who you keep bringing up all have the same right to vote as you and me (well, depends if they are old as obviously this brexit government requires more stringent rules on voter ID for the young than the old!). If they couldn’t vote, obviously we would still be in the EU and much better off for it in every way. I have studied EU and constitutional law myself and still do so with students who study law. I don't think you need to have done so in order to have an opinion or to vote. It would be easy to make a case that none of us knows enough about anything to vote on anything. In particular , perhaps especially in politics, the future csnnot be predicted. Roughly 18m people believed it was important enough to vote AND tgey each had their reasons, as valid as yours and mine. I would not presume to be condescending. There are clever people than me( and possibly even you) on either side of the argument...it seems to be your side who continuslly tries to belittle and insult fellow citizens. The voting demographics is a red herring really. Perhaps we should have had a vote to go in. I agree. But why ask the public to vote on something they don’t know enough about? Best leave it to the elected members of Parliament is my view. Do you think the public should have a referendum each time a major decision has to be made? I don’t. That’s what Parliament is for, even if a lot of them are awful. They are elected to make the decisions on our behalf.
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 5, 2023 17:22:25 GMT
I have studied EU and constitutional law myself and still do so with students who study law. I don't think you need to have done so in order to have an opinion or to vote. It would be easy to make a case that none of us knows enough about anything to vote on anything. In particular , perhaps especially in politics, the future csnnot be predicted. Roughly 18m people believed it was important enough to vote AND tgey each had their reasons, as valid as yours and mine. I would not presume to be condescending. There are clever people than me( and possibly even you) on either side of the argument...it seems to be your side who continuslly tries to belittle and insult fellow citizens. The voting demographics is a red herring really. Perhaps we should have had a vote to go in. I agree. But why ask the public to vote on something they don’t know enough about? Best leave it to the elected members of Parliament is my view. Do you think the public should have a referendum each time a major decision has to be made? I don’t. That’s what Parliament is for, even if a lot of them are awful. They are elected to make the decisions on our behalf. Actually , I do believe we should have more referendums...eventually it might energise the public to realise that they can have a say and their opinion counts...hence in my opinion part of the explanation of the turn out for thd EU referendum. And no, I dont think it is always wise to leave it to our elected politicians( unfortunaely)...but for most things it is the best we have. Too many career politicians are forced to toe the party line and " the wheels of government/ civil service" are such that it is difficukt to effect change....do they really want change. In my opinion , and I' ve said this al along , I'm most disappointed in the Labour party....they have missed an opportunity that only comes along once in generations. IMO we were only able to pass something as revolutionary as the Welfare state/ NHS because we had come out of the Second World War....any decent leadership of the Left( and it is not coincidence thst Benn, Corbyn, Fox, Galloway, Lynch are all fervent Brexiteers) could have capitalised on the revitalised voters, Post Brexit who for once believed that they had been listened to / had achieved something...A vision for Britain, reform of voting, H of L, movement towards nationisation, better workers' rights, involvement, sensible environmental plans etc ( the EU is not magic, it is possible to believe those thing and not be in the EU)....instead Labour were virtually silent on the issue, their 2019 policy was ridiculous, a kick in the face for their own supporters...the effeorts to thwart/ overturn Brexit, disgraceful and now they are gullible, thick racist scum.....So Hello Boris Johnson, the door is wide open for you.
|
|
|
Post by oggyoggy on Jul 5, 2023 17:26:33 GMT
I agree. But why ask the public to vote on something they don’t know enough about? Best leave it to the elected members of Parliament is my view. Do you think the public should have a referendum each time a major decision has to be made? I don’t. That’s what Parliament is for, even if a lot of them are awful. They are elected to make the decisions on our behalf. Actually , I do believe we should have more referendums...eventually it might energise the public to realise that they can have a say and thrir opinion counts...hence in my opinion part of the explanation of the turn out for thd EU referendum. And no, I dont think it is always wise to leave it to our elected politicians( unfortunaely)...but for most things it is thd best we have. Too many career politicians are forced to toe the party line and " the wheels of government/ civil srrvice" are such that it is diffucukt yo effect change....do they really wsnt change. In my opinion , and I' ve said tjis all slong , I'm most disappointed in the Labour party....thry have missed an opportunity that only comes along once in generations. IMO we were only able to pass something as revolutionary as the Welfare state/ NHS because we had come out of the Second World War....any decent leadership of the Left( and it is not coincidence thst Benn, Corbyn, Fox, Galloway, Lynch are all fervent Brexiteers) coukd have capitalised on the revitalised voters who for once believed that they had been listened to / had achieved something...A vision for Britain, reform of voting, H of L, movement towards nationisation, better workers' rights, involvement, sensible environmental plans etc ( the EU is not magic, it is possible to believe those thing and not be in the EU)....instead Labour were virtually silent on the issue, their 2019 policy was ridiculous, a kick in the face for their own supporters...the effeorts to thwart/ overturn Brexit, disgraceful and now they are gullible, thick racist scum.....So Hello Boris Johnson, the door is wide open for you. Labour and Tory have utterly failed the electorate for years. Will you be telling me anything positive from brexit that we can now do that we could not do before that you think a good leader (in your eyes) should be doing? I haven’t heard a positive (and real) vision of what brexit allows us to do that will benefit the country yet. From anyone. On here or in politics or on tv or in the press. It is extraordinary. It makes me think what on earth was the point of it all? What is the mysterious “left wing” brexit you have said you want? Give me examples of policy.
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 5, 2023 17:41:37 GMT
Actually , I do believe we should have more referendums...eventually it might energise the public to realise that they can have a say and thrir opinion counts...hence in my opinion part of the explanation of the turn out for thd EU referendum. And no, I dont think it is always wise to leave it to our elected politicians( unfortunaely)...but for most things it is thd best we have. Too many career politicians are forced to toe the party line and " the wheels of government/ civil srrvice" are such that it is diffucukt yo effect change....do they really wsnt change. In my opinion , and I' ve said tjis all slong , I'm most disappointed in the Labour party....thry have missed an opportunity that only comes along once in generations. IMO we were only able to pass something as revolutionary as the Welfare state/ NHS because we had come out of the Second World War....any decent leadership of the Left( and it is not coincidence thst Benn, Corbyn, Fox, Galloway, Lynch are all fervent Brexiteers) coukd have capitalised on the revitalised voters who for once believed that they had been listened to / had achieved something...A vision for Britain, reform of voting, H of L, movement towards nationisation, better workers' rights, involvement, sensible environmental plans etc ( the EU is not magic, it is possible to believe those thing and not be in the EU)....instead Labour were virtually silent on the issue, their 2019 policy was ridiculous, a kick in the face for their own supporters...the effeorts to thwart/ overturn Brexit, disgraceful and now they are gullible, thick racist scum.....So Hello Boris Johnson, the door is wide open for you. Labour and Tory have utterly failed the electorate for years. Will you be telling me anything positive from brexit that we can now do that we could not do before that you think a good leader (in your eyes) should be doing? I haven’t heard a positive (and real) vision of what brexit allows us to do that will benefit the country yet. From anyone. On here or in politics or on tv or in the press. It is extraordinary. It makes me think what on earth was the point of it all? What is the mysterious “left wing” brexit you have said you want? Give me examples of policy. Oggy , I'm not going to relive the 2016 referendum for the rest of my life. I've discussed this with you many many times. I've hinted at the policies in my post above. When I earlier referred to the Common Agricultural policy , I doubt most people, you included, know what the actual policy is ( quick Google it), likewise the EU's industrial policy, foreign policy etc....and we were subject to them gor years. What I do want is a local MP to be accountable to local people and for that accountability to be transparent and challengeable in a Parliament near to home/ in this country ( the EU parliament isn' t actually a Parliament as we understsnd it) ie Westminster, not perfect , but the best we have ( we certainly don't need two) In the interests of honesty I wonder if Labour and LibDems should include a phrase in their next manifesto " Please don't vote for us if you voted Brexit or if you are over 25, we don't want thick, aged, racists amywhere near us, try " Britain First"
|
|
|
Post by knype on Jul 5, 2023 17:50:26 GMT
Oggy, who the flying fook do you think you are to come out with statements like this one...
" The thickos, the racists, the gullible ones who you keep bringing up all have the same right to vote as you and me (well, depends if they are old as obviously this brexit government requires more stringent rules on voter ID for the young than the old!). If they couldn’t vote, obviously we would still be in the EU and much better off for it in every way"
You're no better or no worse than anyone else.
|
|
|
Post by oggyoggy on Jul 5, 2023 18:08:56 GMT
Labour and Tory have utterly failed the electorate for years. Will you be telling me anything positive from brexit that we can now do that we could not do before that you think a good leader (in your eyes) should be doing? I haven’t heard a positive (and real) vision of what brexit allows us to do that will benefit the country yet. From anyone. On here or in politics or on tv or in the press. It is extraordinary. It makes me think what on earth was the point of it all? What is the mysterious “left wing” brexit you have said you want? Give me examples of policy. Oggy , I'm not going to relive the 2016 referendum for the rest of my life. I've discussed this with you many many times. I've hinted at the policies in my post above. When I earlier referred to the Common Agricultural policy , I doubt most people, you included, know what the actual policy is ( quick Google it), likewise the EU's industrial policy, foreign policy etc....and we were subject to them gor years. What I do want is a local MP to be accountable to local people and for that accountability to be transparent and challengeable in a Parliament near to home/ in this country ( the EU parliament isn' t actually a Parliament as we understsnd it) ie Westminster, not perfect , but the best we have ( we certainly don't need two) In the interests of honesty I wonder if Labour and LibDems should include a phrase in their next manifesto " Please don't vote for us if you voted Brexit or if you are over 25, we don't want thick, aged, racists amywhere near us, try " Britain First" But you still cannot name anything that anyone can do because of brexit that would be good for the country….jeez. Why on earth would labour or lib dems say that in their manifesto!? You are really weird with your insults towards leave voters.
|
|
|
Post by oggyoggy on Jul 5, 2023 18:17:55 GMT
Oggy, who the flying fook do you think you are to come out with statements like this one... " The thickos, the racists, the gullible ones who you keep bringing up all have the same right to vote as you and me (well, depends if they are old as obviously this brexit government requires more stringent rules on voter ID for the young than the old!). If they couldn’t vote, obviously we would still be in the EU and much better off for it in every way" You're no better or no worse than anyone else. You need to raise it with BigJohnRitchie. He is the one that keeps listing thickos, racists and gullible people who voted leave. I just used his wording. Will you give me a tangible benefit of brexit? You were challenged to give 5 brexit benefits before. I just want one. Nobody has been able to give me an example of one, and BigJohnRitchie couldn’t even come up with a potential benefit of brexit if his preferred leader were in charge of the country! Also, I am better at some things than others and worse at some things than others. I know a lot more about the EU than most having studied it and applying some of its laws in my job. Ask me to put up a shelf and and I am the worst person to ask. Ask me to speak a foreign language and I am probably worse than others. Ask me to teach and I would be terrible.
|
|
|
Post by foghornsgleghorn on Jul 5, 2023 18:38:18 GMT
How terrible that 'ordinary guy' Big Nige has to have an ordinary bank account, rather than one for the very wealthy. They'll be crying into their pints watching the poor bloke on Thursday night. I won’t be, he’ll be as brash and bullish as ever. The finest politician in my lifetime and a cracking chat show host to boot. We’d be a lot better off if Big Nige was in charge of this country right now whatever your political persuasion. Would we bollocks. Farage was the cunt who rarely turned up at the EU Parliament as he was too busy moaning, while taking the money. Put him in Westminster and he'd take the cash , not turn up and make even more money moaning about Parliament on his TV show. And some would lap it up. Just look at him now, distraught that he has to queue down at Natwest (if he can find a branch still open)with the general public trying to cash his cheques from the sycophants . The worst political creature who is not Boris Johnson.
|
|
|
Post by thehartshillbadger on Jul 5, 2023 18:40:26 GMT
I won’t be, he’ll be as brash and bullish as ever. The finest politician in my lifetime and a cracking chat show host to boot. We’d be a lot better off if Big Nige was in charge of this country right now whatever your political persuasion. Would we bollocks. Farage was the cunt who rarely turned up at the EU Parliament as he was too busy moaning, while taking the money. Put him in Westminster and he'd take the cash , not turn up and make even more money moaning about Parliament on his TV show. And some would lap it up. Just look at him now, distraught that he has to queue down at Natwest (if he can find a branch still open)with the general public trying to cash his cheques from the sycophants . The worst political creature who is not Boris Johnson. Calm down mate otherwise the word gammon may have to be bestowed on you😉 and there’s nothing more a left wing loon hates than a joke, god forbid…..
|
|
|
Post by felonious on Jul 5, 2023 18:55:59 GMT
I try not to get involved with very dull people and unfortunately you're proving to be as dull as ever. I've said probably everything I've ever said on Brexit it's done and been done to death. You don't interest me on any level on any subject. You're part of an ever growing band of soulless posters on here. If I ever needed confirmation about you then your pathetic pointless pursuit of Badger a few months back was more than enough. Get a life before it's too late. You cannot help yourself! Asked a question you deflect and insult. So predictable and it completely undermines your position. Why are you on a message board if not to debate? Why are you on a message board if only to bore people to death. Engaging with you is the equivalent of being stalked. I know you're a bit slow but as I've pointed out I have no interest in debating anything with you. What don't you understand about the words in front of you. You're one to avoid/ ignore. I must admit to having some sympathy for you, slavishly bonded to the EU and the Liberal Democrats isn't an easy path to choose.
|
|
|
Post by thehartshillbadger on Jul 5, 2023 19:03:38 GMT
You cannot help yourself! Asked a question you deflect and insult. So predictable and it completely undermines your position. Why are you on a message board if not to debate? Why are you on a message board if only to bore people to death. Engaging with you is the equivalent of being stalked. I know you're a bit slow but as I've pointed out I have no interest in debating anything with you. What don't you understand about the words in front of you. You're one to avoid/ ignore. I must admit to having some sympathy for you, slavishly bonded to the EU and the Liberal Democrats isn't an easy path to choose. Us mere mortals can only watch on with exasperation at the debilitating condition defined as woke. It must be tiresome but it’s to their eternal credit they keep repeating the same rhetoric time and time again without a hint of self awareness😀
|
|
|
Post by wannabee on Jul 5, 2023 19:20:02 GMT
Vote leave HQ was the government who got elected in 2019. Lee Cain, Dom Cummings, Johnson, Gove, Sunak, Raab etc. But keep telling yourself it isn’t Brexit that was the problem, just the people implementing it (who were the same people who sold it to you, lies and all). You still cannot name one tangible positive of brexit. The question asked was " do we want to be in the EU". It is possible to want to not be in. What happens after leaving is down to current goverments , including the EU. Whilst we were in the EU there was very little knowledge, understanding or debate on what was going on in the EU by the UK population....leave it to them. [ For example have a look at the CRITICISMS of the Common Agricultural Policy on this link, only Wikipedia, but all referenced..quite a list .designed to protect the French and landowners like Heseltine...NEVER popularly debated or raised in this country...but our MPs were in collusion with it en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Agricultural_PolicyYour criticism is largely aimed at the current government ( and actually the EU...if it were JUST a trading block things could have been different BUT it clearly states itself it is about Political and Economic union...I don't want that. Anyway I must not get drawn in and allow you to say" I told you so" ad infinitum....but surely some party should advocate joining lock , stock and barrel at the next election....The Maastrict treaty/ political and economic union. Why not?....it is the answer to all our problems. You are comparing CAP while UK was in EU which to provide certainty are on a 7 year cycle. The latest CAP which began in 2021 is based on each Countries own Agricultural plans but meet the overall aims of EU Food Security and Standards and Environmental Protection The UK replacement ELMS doesn't meet either of these objectives according to President of NFU www.fruitnet.com/fresh-produce-journal/post-cap-farming-policies-lack-scientific-rigour/248788.articleYou might ponder this equation in 2019 UK Farmers received £4.7Bn under CAP the ELMS annual Budget is £2.4Bn This suggests to me a clear Government Policy to de-emphasise UK Food Production and by extention Food Security which is referenced in the linked Article. This is further evidenced by the Trade Deals with Australia and New Zealand which Liz Truss was warned by her own officials would harm UK Farming www.google.com/amp/s/www.politico.eu/article/liz-truss-uk-food-sector-australia-new-zealand-trade-deal/amp/The Minister that negotiated these Trade Deals George Eustice, himself a farmer, when he stepped down as a Minister quickly confirmed that these Trade Deals are terrible for UK Farmers Be Careful For What You Wish For
|
|
|
Post by oggyoggy on Jul 5, 2023 19:22:01 GMT
You cannot help yourself! Asked a question you deflect and insult. So predictable and it completely undermines your position. Why are you on a message board if not to debate? Why are you on a message board if only to bore people to death. Engaging with you is the equivalent of being stalked. I know you're a bit slow but as I've pointed out I have no interest in debating anything with you. What don't you understand about the words in front of you. You're one to avoid/ ignore. I must admit to having some sympathy for you, slavishly bonded to the EU and the Liberal Democrats isn't an easy path to choose. More insults. You hate engaging with me so much you keep replying! No brexit benefits to speak of then?
|
|
|
Post by scfcbiancorossi on Jul 5, 2023 20:05:25 GMT
Big Nige Farage - Fantastic bloke. Amazing to see him take the TV awards the other night to the dismay of the mainstream mob. Even in the age of cancel culture he still finds himself increasingly popular and successful.
Get him back into frontline politics and provide some form of competition to the dismal, dull, depressing leadership of Sunak and Starmer.
|
|
|
Post by scfcbiancorossi on Jul 5, 2023 20:06:13 GMT
Why are you on a message board if only to bore people to death. Engaging with you is the equivalent of being stalked. I know you're a bit slow but as I've pointed out I have no interest in debating anything with you. What don't you understand about the words in front of you. You're one to avoid/ ignore. I must admit to having some sympathy for you, slavishly bonded to the EU and the Liberal Democrats isn't an easy path to choose. More insults. You hate engaging with me so much you keep replying! No brexit benefits to speak of then? You are unhealthily obsessed with Brexit.
|
|
|
Post by thehartshillbadger on Jul 5, 2023 20:10:20 GMT
Big Nige Farage - Fantastic bloke. Amazing to see him take the TV awards the other night to the dismay of the mainstream mob. Even in the age of cancel culture he still finds himself increasingly popular and successful. Get him back into frontline politics and provide some form of competition to the dismal, dull, depressing leadership of Sunak and Starmer. Spot on, no holds barred interviews over a pint at the GB News pub, you can’t beat it😉 The sooner he gets back into front line politics the better
|
|
|
Post by yeswilko on Jul 5, 2023 20:13:17 GMT
Big Nige Farage - Fantastic bloke. Amazing to see him take the TV awards the other night to the dismay of the mainstream mob. Even in the age of cancel culture he still finds himself increasingly popular and successful. Get him back into frontline politics and provide some form of competition to the dismal, dull, depressing leadership of Sunak and Starmer. Funny to see you and Badger are still following those obvious Russian troll pages on Facebook duck.
|
|
|
Post by thehartshillbadger on Jul 5, 2023 20:18:16 GMT
Big Nige Farage - Fantastic bloke. Amazing to see him take the TV awards the other night to the dismay of the mainstream mob. Even in the age of cancel culture he still finds himself increasingly popular and successful. Get him back into frontline politics and provide some form of competition to the dismal, dull, depressing leadership of Sunak and Starmer. Funny to see you and Badger are still following those obvious Russian troll pages on Facebook duck. What a bizarre claim, but I expect nothing else from the biggest WUM on the board. Have a lie down and maybe you’ll drift off ready for a day of wiring shit in the morning👍🏻
|
|