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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2019 10:56:38 GMT
2014 EU Elections - Won by UKIP. 2015 General Election - Won by the Tories who offered a referendum. 2016 Referendum - Won by 'Leave'. 2017 General Election - The parties who pledged to honour the referendum result get over 80% of the votes. 2019 EU Elections - Won by the Brexit Party. Remoaners - "This shows that the country is still very divided. We need another vote!" LBC, Sky, the Beeb etc are all doing the "add up all the Remainers bit", forgetting that loads of Labour and Tory voters want Brexit! It's fucking incredible. It was inevitable. They were all already trotting out their excuses and spin last week when they saw how the final few polls were looking. It's just the same as after the 2016 referendum - they just will not accept the result ! We could have another referendum (Starmer's legendary "confirmatory vote"), although I hope not on a matter of principle, and if Leave won yet again the politicians, MSM, and many remoaners would still not accept it and still try to spin it their way. I wonder what would have been the response this morning if Labour or the LibDems had got the same result as the Brexit Party last night. The matter would have presumably been closed as it would be claimed it had delivered a clear win for remain. The "establishment" will never accept that they lost and will never allow us to leave.
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2019 11:08:44 GMT
With the caveat - Turnout was higher in remain supporting areas for some reason* And loads of Brexit voters thought why bother, they won't honour my vote anyway. Remainers used it as a proxy second referendum. I used my BParty vote as a stick it to the Tories & Labour/proxy second vote to put a bit of wind in the sails of ACTUAL brexit. The country seems to have re-affirmed it wants it to happen.
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Post by maxplonk on May 27, 2019 11:12:24 GMT
I am very suspicious of the sudden rise of The Green Party, too. Very pro EU, come to the fore just before the elections? Dodgy as fuck. A lot of younger people who didn't/couldn't vote before have turned out for green parties right across Europe.
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Post by wagsastokie on May 27, 2019 11:19:57 GMT
It was Farage in 2014, UKIP got one seat in parliament. There's on person who would love nothing better than for this Godforsaken process to drag on for another 10/15 years and it's Nigel Farage. It pays his bills, it's his pension. He rides the EU gravy train more than any other politician going. In a general election all sorts of factors come into play, Farage for example would like nothing better than to privatise large parts of the NHS. Let him come out and campaign on that platform and lets see where it gets him. The Brexit Party will need actual policies if they continue beyond the next few months..... The NHS is already part privatised. We dont even own our own hospital, we rent it at astronomical cost. The same company who owns it has a huge quantity of staff there. This isn't unique to Stoke either. And who did most of the privatisation The Labour Party
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Post by bathstoke on May 27, 2019 11:21:37 GMT
Seriously, what's the point of UKIP? They split the racist vote with Labour, Labour takes all the jew hating racists, UKIP take all the other racists. Who does that leave the Torys to hate...
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Post by bigjohnritchie on May 27, 2019 11:27:23 GMT
Labour are unfortunately in as much disarray as the Tories, but have the luxury of not being in power. If they had any leadership or an effective team , given the state of the Tories, they should be romping home.
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Post by GeneralFaye on May 27, 2019 11:31:16 GMT
Do Labour need a new leader now?! Corbyn just hasn't got it in him to lead this country from my point of view. He's been the leader for the opposition to an utterly shambolic government in power falling apart at the seems and Labour have somehow conspired to fuck it up. I have no idea who would be next in line but the love for Corbyn from a couple of years ago has surely gone.
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Post by salopstick on May 27, 2019 11:32:41 GMT
Do Labour need a new leader now?! Corbyn just hasn't got it in him to lead this country from my point of view. He's been the leader for the opposition to an utterly shambolic government in power falling apart at the seems and Labour have somehow conspired to fuck it up. I have no idea who would be next in line but the love for Corbyn from a couple of years ago has surely gone. A labour leader election would be even more carnage than the back stabbing we are about to see across the aisle
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Post by auntiegeorge on May 27, 2019 11:35:07 GMT
I am very suspicious of the sudden rise of The Green Party, too. Very pro EU, come to the fore just before the elections? Dodgy as fuck. They did well all across Europe in fairness, up from 52 seats to 71. This is why it's disingenuous to claim all voters of the Greens etc were doing so because of Brexit, there is (rightly) a massive green agenda throughout the world at the moment (apart from in Trump's America) so some will have voted with that in mind..... I agree with that. I also think it's simplistic for people to claim everyone who voted Green is a remainer and therefore bundle the Greens in with the LibUndems to bring up the remain percentage. People vote Green for the environmental issues we face and I, a leave voter, would have actually voted Green in the absence of the Brexit Party. It's just that the Green Party believes it can accomplish its agenda by staying in the EU. There's a huge difference between that and claiming everyone who voted Green is a remainer.
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Post by GeneralFaye on May 27, 2019 11:36:07 GMT
Do Labour need a new leader now?! Corbyn just hasn't got it in him to lead this country from my point of view. He's been the leader for the opposition to an utterly shambolic government in power falling apart at the seems and Labour have somehow conspired to fuck it up. I have no idea who would be next in line but the love for Corbyn from a couple of years ago has surely gone. A labour leader election would be even more carnage than the back stabbing we are about to see across the aisle But can they survive if they carry on with Corbyn? Looks like they're fucked either way I suppose I just have no idea what Labour and Corbyn stand for. Everything about them has been very non committal.
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Post by thevoid on May 27, 2019 11:38:59 GMT
I am very suspicious of the sudden rise of The Green Party, too. Very pro EU, come to the fore just before the elections? Dodgy as fuck. A lot of younger people who didn't/couldn't vote before have turned out for green parties right across Europe. Which backs up my claim that a vote for Green is not necessarily a vote to Remain.
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Post by salopstick on May 27, 2019 11:43:08 GMT
A labour leader election would be even more carnage than the back stabbing we are about to see across the aisle But can they survive if they carry on with Corbyn? Looks like they're fucked either way I suppose I just have no idea what Labour and Corbyn stand for. Everything about them has been very non committal. I remember when he got elected. He promised change Huddy got excited promising change When it came to the crunch Corbyn sold out his natural beliefs and instincts to satisfy a new labour type PLP. He had his chance to change them but didn’t take it. He’s now a lame duck leader. When he can’t make inroads on an unpopular Tory govt you know he’s fucked. The man who had the keys to number 10 in his hand but chose to change the locks
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Post by sheikhmomo on May 27, 2019 11:43:37 GMT
Do Labour need a new leader now?! Corbyn just hasn't got it in him to lead this country from my point of view. He's been the leader for the opposition to an utterly shambolic government in power falling apart at the seems and Labour have somehow conspired to fuck it up. I have no idea who would be next in line but the love for Corbyn from a couple of years ago has surely gone. A labour leader election would be even more carnage than the back stabbing we are about to see across the aisle Both main parties are in genuine danger of disintegrating. The Tories will almost certainly lurch to the right and head towards no deal now and at least a third of the party simply wont stomach it. Labour will have to ride one horse eventually and it look like it will be a second referendum nag which will destroy its support in northern working class communities. Worryingly, when there's a void in Politics it's usually the extreme right that tend to fill it.
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2019 11:51:38 GMT
But can they survive if they carry on with Corbyn? Looks like they're fucked either way I suppose I just have no idea what Labour and Corbyn stand for. Everything about them has been very non committal. I remember when he got elected. He promised change Huddy got excited promising change When it came to the crunch Corbyn sold out his natural beliefs and instincts to satisfy a new labour type PLP. He had his chance to change them but didn’t take it. He’s now a lame duck leader. When he can’t make inroads on an unpopular Tory govt you know he’s fucked. The man who had the keys to number 10 in his hand but chose to change the locks He did make inroads though. Not by enough to win an election but inroads nevertheless. And although statements such as "The man who had the keys to number 10 in his hand but chose to change the locks" sound great they're pretty meaningless as Labour aren't in power and there isn't a GE on the horizon. Like football, 6 months is a long time in politics......
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2019 11:55:01 GMT
A labour leader election would be even more carnage than the back stabbing we are about to see across the aisle But can they survive if they carry on with Corbyn? Looks like they're fucked either way I suppose I just have no idea what Labour and Corbyn stand for. Everything about them has been very non committal. And replace with who? Yvette "abstain from voting against cruel Tory cuts and vote for every illegal occupation going" Cooper. May as well vote Tory, spare me please. I hope to God the Blairite's in the party try for another coup, because they'll get their arses handed to them yet again and that would give Corbyn the power to push through more of his agenda. If he doesn't start getting tough I agree he's a busted flush......
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Post by Frogger Theft Auto on May 27, 2019 12:01:54 GMT
They don’t want to admit but people were not voting for Brexit Lite they were voting to leave the EU. I and others I’ve spoken to knew it was leave and sort out any collaboration later. “Deal” was not in my vocabulary in the subject. You can’t appease everyone with some sort of deal. Too many variables. The new Tory leader has to now just get out as quick as they can. We know we can make it. Our economy despite the predictions is proving that. It has to appease the Brexit Party so that they don’t need to stand in a GE Then the battle is between labour and Tory is who is best to oversee the first few years of it. and most people realise that Corbyn can’t do it Europe has split the tories for years but labour have been in the same boat although less visible. If thornberry succeeds in getting labour to go fully remain then Labour are finished. Isn’t “Brexit-lite” just skipping the period of a ballache between when we’d have left with no deal and then having eventually negotiated a trade deal with the EU anyway? ‘No deal’ Brexit is basically the same as “Brexit-lite” but stretched out longer and with a period of two trading blocks clashing in between. I don’t get the desire for it, unless you’re set to make a lot of money from that ballache period between leaving and having the trade deal. I don’t think that describes anybody on here though does it? The best reason that I can think of for ‘long-drawn-out-ballache Brexit (no deal)’ is that the threat of ‘long-drawn-out-ballache Brexit (no deal)’ at the moment is the only leverage we’ve got in negotiating the trade agreement - but we wouldn’t even have that if we actually left with no deal. So we’d be negotiating it from a worse position than we’re in now. What am I missing? It seems mindless.
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Post by harryburrows on May 27, 2019 12:03:52 GMT
But can they survive if they carry on with Corbyn? Looks like they're fucked either way I suppose I just have no idea what Labour and Corbyn stand for. Everything about them has been very non committal. And replace with who? Yvette "abstain from voting against cruel Tory cuts and vote for every illegal occupation going" Cooper. May as well vote Tory, spare me please. I hope to God the Blairite's in the party try for another coup, because they'll get their arses handed to them yet again and that would give Corbyn the power to push through more of his agenda. If he doesn't start getting tough I agree he's a busted flush...... Fertile ground for the lib dems to exploit. The are essentially a Center left party
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Post by GrahamHyde on May 27, 2019 12:11:14 GMT
LBC, Sky, the Beeb etc are all doing the "add up all the Remainers bit", forgetting that loads of Labour and Tory voters want Brexit! It's fucking incredible. It was inevitable. They were all already trotting out their excuses and spin last week when they saw how the final few polls were looking. It's just the same as after the 2016 referendum - they just will not accept the result ! We could have another referendum (Starmer's legendary "confirmatory vote"), although I hope not on a matter of principle, and if Leave won yet again the politicians, MSM, and many remoaners would still not accept it and still try to spin it their way. I wonder what would have been the response this morning if Labour or the LibDems had got the same result as the Brexit Party last night. The matter would have presumably been closed as it would be claimed it had delivered a clear win for remain. The "establishment" will never accept that they lost and will never allow us to leave. Well there's an element of truth in that, but yes, it's not that simplistic. Imagine that pro-remain voters are split across Lib Dems, Labour and Greens. Pro-leave largely split across Brexit Party, UKIP and Conservatives.
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Post by GrahamHyde on May 27, 2019 12:12:45 GMT
Brexit Party is just the latest name for NF/BNP/UKIP, and basically just has the UKIP votes.
It's the same every time, the nationalist party gets TOO racist, and the successful parts of it rebrand as a nationalist but not as racist party, then in 10 years they do it again.
The good news with this is the people had the choice between explicitly racist UKIP and "honestly,it's about Europe" Brexit Party and chose the less racist option.
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Post by salopstick on May 27, 2019 12:13:02 GMT
They don’t want to admit but people were not voting for Brexit Lite they were voting to leave the EU. I and others I’ve spoken to knew it was leave and sort out any collaboration later. “Deal” was not in my vocabulary in the subject. You can’t appease everyone with some sort of deal. Too many variables. The new Tory leader has to now just get out as quick as they can. We know we can make it. Our economy despite the predictions is proving that. It has to appease the Brexit Party so that they don’t need to stand in a GE Then the battle is between labour and Tory is who is best to oversee the first few years of it. and most people realise that Corbyn can’t do it Europe has split the tories for years but labour have been in the same boat although less visible. If thornberry succeeds in getting labour to go fully remain then Labour are finished. Isn’t “Brexit-lite” just skipping the period of a ballache between when we’d have left with no deal and then having eventually negotiated a trade deal with the EU anyway? ‘No deal’ Brexit is basically the same as “Brexit-lite” but stretched out longer and with a period of two trading blocks clashing in between. I don’t get the desire for it, unless you’re set to make a lot of money from that ballache period between leaving and having the trade deal. I don’t think that describes anybody on here though does it? The best reason that I can think of for ‘long-drawn-out-ballache Brexit (no deal)’ is that the threat of ‘long-drawn-out-ballache Brexit (no deal)’ at the moment is the only leverage we’ve got in negotiating the trade agreement - but we wouldn’t even have that if we actually left with no deal. So we’d be negotiating it from a worse position than we’re in now. What am I missing? It seems mindless. I think I understand that. The withdrawal agreement is temporary. The future arrangements is what matter. Just get out and concentrate on our future
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Post by starkiller on May 27, 2019 12:14:35 GMT
Time to stop compromising and negotiating with the losers.
It is this that has been catastrophic for this country.
Giving them this has led to the losers whinging and dictating for three years, and almost borderline mental illness as they add up numbers from all over the place to try to claim victories. Numbers on marches, petitions, ages of voters, flags outside parliament and now losers in an election. Fucking comical.
Time to steamroll through Brexit, force through the democratic will so they accept it. And get the fuck out and on with dealing with it.
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Post by salopstick on May 27, 2019 12:14:40 GMT
Brexit Party is just the latest name for NF/BNP/UKIP, and basically just has the UKIP votes. It's the same every time, the nationalist party gets TOO racist, and the successful parts of it rebrand as a nationalist but not as racist party, then in 10 years they do it again. The good news with this is the people had the choice between explicitly racist UKIP and "honestly,it's about Europe" Brexit Party and chose the less racist option. Only this time the candidates were a lot better and diverse
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Post by GrahamHyde on May 27, 2019 12:31:38 GMT
Time to stop compromising and negotiating with the losers. It is this that has been catastrophic for this country. Giving them this has led to the losers whinging and dictating for three years, and almost borderline mental illness as they add up numbers from all over the place to try to claim victories. Fucking comical. Time to steamroll through Brexit, force through the democratic will so they accept it. And get the fuck out and on with dealing with it. Jesus...
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Post by felonious on May 27, 2019 12:33:48 GMT
Just heard the piss poor report on Radio Stoke on last night's results in Stoke On Trent. If I heard correctly because they didn't want to discuss the local result it sounded like a 26% turnout with 20,000 of the 42,000 votes going to The Brexit Party. It seemed that they preferred to hang on to the West Midlands result.
What stood out is that it was a confirmation that the pro Remain areas managed a higher turnout than the Brexit areas. It's no surprise since voting for Brexit in these areas has not led to the promised exit from the EU. The next vote will be interesting. So despite Remain voters turning out in higher numbers than Leavers, BP still won the most votes- yet apparently it was a win for Remain 😂 Don't forget the Labour 'Leave' support once they finally commit to Remain, the oddballs who voted UKIP who should've voted BP and probably most of the Tory voters. What people don't grasp is that some people will vote SNP, Plaid and Green regardless- Green Parties saw gains all over Europe and is based on the current focus on environmental issues/Extinction Rebellion. So the Green vote is not necessarily a vote for Remain. Interstingly, the second biggest party in Scotland was BP, so it's a myth that the Scots are unilaterally pro-EU. I don't know wehter you caught sight of the vile Alistair Campbell on the BBC panel last night. He voted Libdem. Wonder how his lovely mates Tony and Peter voted?
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Post by starkiller on May 27, 2019 12:40:20 GMT
So despite Remain voters turning out in higher numbers than Leavers, BP still won the most votes- yet apparently it was a win for Remain 😂 Don't forget the Labour 'Leave' support once they finally commit to Remain, the oddballs who voted UKIP who should've voted BP and probably most of the Tory voters. What people don't grasp is that some people will vote SNP, Plaid and Green regardless- Green Parties saw gains all over Europe and is based on the current focus on environmental issues/Extinction Rebellion. So the Green vote is not necessarily a vote for Remain. Interstingly, the second biggest party in Scotland was BP, so it's a myth that the Scots are unilaterally pro-EU. I don't know wehter you caught sight of the vile Alistair Campbell on the BBC panel last night. He voted Libdem. Wonder how his lovely mates Tony and Peter voted? Campbell reminds you of the mouthy prick in the bar who drinks alone but then barges in on every conversation where he can give his unwanted opinion - thus killing the evening dead, as people just sup up and leave.
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Post by bathstoke on May 27, 2019 12:40:57 GMT
Time to stop compromising and negotiating with the losers. It is this that has been catastrophic for this country. Giving them this has led to the losers whinging and dictating for three years, and almost borderline mental illness as they add up numbers from all over the place to try to claim victories. Numbers on marches, petitions, ages of voters, flags outside parliament and now losers in an election. Fucking comical. Time to steamroll through Brexit, force through the democratic will so they accept it. And get the fuck out and on with dealing with it. Blitzkrieg
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Post by thevoid on May 27, 2019 12:45:02 GMT
So despite Remain voters turning out in higher numbers than Leavers, BP still won the most votes- yet apparently it was a win for Remain 😂 Don't forget the Labour 'Leave' support once they finally commit to Remain, the oddballs who voted UKIP who should've voted BP and probably most of the Tory voters. What people don't grasp is that some people will vote SNP, Plaid and Green regardless- Green Parties saw gains all over Europe and is based on the current focus on environmental issues/Extinction Rebellion. So the Green vote is not necessarily a vote for Remain. Interstingly, the second biggest party in Scotland was BP, so it's a myth that the Scots are unilaterally pro-EU. I don't know wehter you caught sight of the vile Alistair Campbell on the BBC panel last night. He voted Libdem. Wonder how his lovely mates Tony and Peter voted? I nearly put my screen through when that cunt came on.
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Post by LL Cool Dave on May 27, 2019 12:46:19 GMT
Time to stop compromising and negotiating with the losers. It is this that has been catastrophic for this country. Giving them this has led to the losers whinging and dictating for three years, and almost borderline mental illness as they add up numbers from all over the place to try to claim victories. Numbers on marches, petitions, ages of voters, flags outside parliament and now losers in an election. Fucking comical. Time to steamroll through Brexit, force through the democratic will so they accept it. And get the fuck out and on with dealing with it. Are you moving back here to help with the steamrolling?
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Post by felonious on May 27, 2019 12:48:58 GMT
I don't know wehter you caught sight of the vile Alistair Campbell on the BBC panel last night. He voted Libdem. Wonder how his lovely mates Tony and Peter voted? I nearly put my screen through when that cunt came on. He presses more buttons than my ex wife
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Post by thevoid on May 27, 2019 13:17:33 GMT
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