|
Post by Gods on Apr 9, 2019 23:02:37 GMT
Just wow! Blame it on the sending offs if you like but we had 11 men for more than half of the match. I wouldn't expect stats like that against prime-time Barcelona. I fully appreciate that in the grander scheme of things it doesn't matter one jot since the season has long since been as dead as the PM's brexit deal but we've had an absolute nightmare, one of our worst efforts in my lifetime. There was almost an operatic grandeur to tonight's ineptitude. Strangest of all the manager seemed fairly chipper about the whole thing
|
|
|
Post by bertiestan on Apr 10, 2019 0:48:07 GMT
😂😂😂...unbelievable
|
|
|
Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Apr 10, 2019 6:38:40 GMT
It was an embarrassing evening.
I don't know where Jones starts with this lot. The only players worth keeping are Batth and Etebo, we just need to get rid of as many as possible and I hope he has a clear idea of 6-7 players he wants for this summer who would go straight in our team
|
|
|
Post by rorystowel on Apr 10, 2019 6:49:17 GMT
I wouldn’t have said he was chipper. I thought Jones was trying hard to cover up his embarrassment myself, and he should be embarrassed after that dog’s dinner of a performance.
Roll on Rotherham, it can only get better!
|
|
|
Post by FullerMagic on Apr 10, 2019 7:48:25 GMT
Only really fair to include the first half stats, which were laughable anyway. Second half was a write-off and things are going to get messy with 9 men for half an hour.
Think it was 16-2 shots and 72% possession - and that was with 11. That is peak Barcelona/Man City type stuff.
|
|
|
Post by wuzza on Apr 10, 2019 7:50:50 GMT
Breath taking stat that is hardly accounted for by a bit of travel weariness !
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2019 7:54:04 GMT
Potter has done an amazing job in a short space of time, with barely any money to spend.
Some of us said he should have been here last January. Some of us laughed at it, and suggested people only wanted him for his name, hey Gods?
|
|
|
Post by Gods on Apr 10, 2019 7:54:34 GMT
Only really fair to include the first half stats, which were laughable anyway. Second half was a write-off and things are going to get messy with 9 men for half an hour. Think it was 16-2 shots and 72% possession - and that was with 11. That is peak Barcelona/Man City type stuff. Well there you are , it didn't really get any worse , 2 fewer shots from us and if anything we improved defensively !
|
|
|
Post by davejohnno1 on Apr 10, 2019 7:58:48 GMT
Only really fair to include the first half stats, which were laughable anyway. Second half was a write-off and things are going to get messy with 9 men for half an hour. Think it was 16-2 shots and 72% possession - and that was with 11. That is peak Barcelona/Man City type stuff. Ultimately, if you pick a team devoid of a single player who can cause the opposition a problem that is what you get. What I'm struggling with is why a succession of managers seem to not grasp this very basic concept, often appearing surprised at the outcome. The fact they they seem to lament the shortcomings of the team on the day when it is blatantly obvious what was going to happen becomes more than a little tiresome.
|
|
|
Post by nottsover60 on Apr 10, 2019 8:01:42 GMT
Have you looked at Derby's stats against Blackburn last night? 23 shots for Blackburn and 6 for Derby who had 11 men and were playing for a playoff place. I think having two away matches in a week especially if they involve long journeys as was the case for Stoke and Derby takes a lot out of players.
|
|
|
Post by wakefieldstokie on Apr 10, 2019 8:02:30 GMT
Only really fair to include the first half stats, which were laughable anyway. Second half was a write-off and things are going to get messy with 9 men for half an hour. Think it was 16-2 shots and 72% possession - and that was with 11. That is peak Barcelona/Man City type stuff. Ultimately, if you pick a team devoid of a single player who can cause the opposition a problem that is what you get. What I'm struggling with is why a succession of managers seem to not grasp this very basic concept, often appearing surprised at the outcome. The fact they they seem to lament the shortcomings of the team on the day when it is blatantly obvious what was going to happen becomes more than a little tiresome. Spot on Dave. It’s a simple but absolutely brilliant point. You just knew from the team sheet it would be an uphill battle last night.
|
|
|
Post by magwitch on Apr 10, 2019 8:09:57 GMT
Potter has done an amazing job in a short space of time, with barely any money to spend. Some of us said he should have been here last January. Some of us laughed at it, and suggested people only wanted him for his name, hey Gods? Potter had a lot of support amongst the Stoke supporters last January and there is mounting evidence that Stoke made yet another mistake in not appointing him. One of the loudest voices opposing his appointment was Angela Smith.
|
|
|
Post by onlyonesirstan on Apr 10, 2019 8:48:43 GMT
Have you looked at Derby's stats against Blackburn last night? 23 shots for Blackburn and 6 for Derby who had 11 men and were playing for a playoff place. I think having two away matches in a week especially if they involve long journeys as was the case for Stoke and Derby takes a lot out of players. Blackburn away, is only 90 minutes up the road. Swansea, yes that is 3 1/2 hours. The coaches they travel in are luxurious, so the travelling is not an excuse I'm afraid.
|
|
|
Post by dirtygary69 on Apr 10, 2019 8:49:46 GMT
Those stats are embarrassing and I don't know how I feel about the whole long-term project at the moment, as this isn't a one-off performance since Jones arrived. If he's going to stick with this formation and be as lean as he says with this '20 man squad' thing, then we essentially need two of the exact same player for every position which means signing half a squad again. It doesn't seem to be a system that allows for players to just come in and "do a job". It needs technique and pace which we still severely lack. Our defence looks strong enough, our central midfield options should be more than good enough but going forwards we are still hopelessly short whether that be personnel or ideas.
I'm glad he's shored the defence up but we still need a proper left back and Shawcross won't last all season so we need good back up. The youngsters coming through look promising but you don't know whether they'll sink or swim. If we lose Etebo and/or Allen then that's another two players we need to find who can play the way Jones wants us. The main focus though HAS to be making this side a more potent attacking one. I'm sick to the back teeth of being rubbish at attacking. You can scrape 0-0's and the odd 1-0 as we have done but if your defensive side lets you down like last night, you're in for a nightmare. Like I say, this isn't the first nightmare we've had under NJ.
I think most rational fans will recognise the adage that Rome wasn't built in a day but at the moment, we've barely even put the scaffolding up. Yes, Jones can only use what he has at his disposal but like Rowett before him, I struggle to believe this is the best we can expect from the squad of players we have. There are teams in this division with squads much worse than ours who produce better football than we do.
I maintain that if we don't start next season off on the front foot, we've got another manager under pressure from the supporters. This dull, defensively sound game will be accepted until this season is out but next season needs to start off with us being an attacking force too. I'm not expecting us to go out battering teams 3 and 4-0 but I am expecting us to be serving up a damned sight better than 0-0's at home against Reading. My fear is that there is simply too much for Jones to do to make that happen.
Nights like last night can and do happen so we can't isolate it too much, especially in a dead rubber but it is worrying that this squad of players can be so poor against an average team like Swansea. When was the last time we looked to put anybody to the sword like that?
|
|
|
Post by sheikhmomo on Apr 10, 2019 9:05:56 GMT
I wouldn’t have said he was chipper. I thought Jones was trying hard to cover up his embarrassment myself, and he should be embarrassed after that dog’s dinner of a performance. Roll on Rotherham, it can only get better! Thing is Nath, they are a distinctly average team, they're 13th in a distictly average division and we've just made them look like Man City.
|
|
|
Post by wagsastokie on Apr 10, 2019 9:27:43 GMT
Those stats are embarrassing and I don't know how I feel about the whole long-term project at the moment, as this isn't a one-off performance since Jones arrived. If he's going to stick with this formation and be as lean as he says with this '20 man squad' thing, then we essentially need two of the exact same player for every position which means signing half a squad again. It doesn't seem to be a system that allows for players to just come in and "do a job". It needs technique and pace which we still severely lack. Our defence looks strong enough, our central midfield options should be more than good enough but going forwards we are still hopelessly short whether that be personnel or ideas. I'm glad he's shored the defence up but we still need a proper left back and Shawcross won't last all season so we need good back up. The youngsters coming through look promising but you don't know whether they'll sink or swim. If we lose Etebo and/or Allen then that's another two players we need to find who can play the way Jones wants us. The main focus though HAS to be making this side a more potent attacking one. I'm sick to the back teeth of being rubbish at attacking. You can scrape 0-0's and the odd 1-0 as we have done but if your defensive side lets you down like last night, you're in for a nightmare. Like I say, this isn't the first nightmare we've had under NJ. I think most rational fans will recognise the adage that Rome wasn't built in a day but at the moment, we've barely even put the scaffolding up. Yes, Jones can only use what he has at his disposal but like Rowett before him, I struggle to believe this is the best we can expect from the squad of players we have. There are teams in this division with squads much worse than ours who produce better football than we do. I maintain that if we don't start next season off on the front foot, we've got another manager under pressure from the supporters. This dull, defensively sound game will be accepted until this season is out but next season needs to start off with us being an attacking force too. I'm not expecting us to go out battering teams 3 and 4-0 but I am expecting us to be serving up a damned sight better than 0-0's at home against Reading. My fear is that there is simply too much for Jones to do to make that happen. Nights like last night can and do happen so we can't isolate it too much, especially in a dead rubber but it is worrying that this squad of players can be so poor against an average team like Swansea. When was the last time we looked to put anybody to the sword like that? Shored up defences don’t have 31 shots against them
|
|
|
Post by nottsover60 on Apr 10, 2019 9:29:39 GMT
Have you looked at Derby's stats against Blackburn last night? 23 shots for Blackburn and 6 for Derby who had 11 men and were playing for a playoff place. I think having two away matches in a week especially if they involve long journeys as was the case for Stoke and Derby takes a lot out of players. Blackburn away, is only 90 minutes up the road. Swansea, yes that is 3 1/2 hours. The coaches they travel in are luxurious, so the travelling is not an excuse I'm afraid. May be only 90 minutes but what time do you think they left the ground? Then they had the journey home from Stoke. Swansea players would have been at home relaxing before Stoke were back in Stoke. Luxurious travel is better but still not restful. Derby's travel was less than Stoke's so how do you explain there lack of performance last night? Quality sleep is not possible in hotel beds either which Stoke had to do twice in less than a week. Yes I know as football players they are used to it but the one thing I look forward to at the end of a holiday is my own bed. It seems totally unfair to have teams playing away on Saturday and Tuesday against teams that have been at home for both matches. What happened to alternate home away matches. They seem very rare these days. At least midweek matches travelling should be kept to a minimum for the fans as well as teams.
|
|
|
Post by potterpaul on Apr 10, 2019 9:37:26 GMT
Blackburn away, is only 90 minutes up the road. Swansea, yes that is 3 1/2 hours. The coaches they travel in are luxurious, so the travelling is not an excuse I'm afraid. May be only 90 minutes but what time do you think they left the ground? Then they had the journey home from Stoke. Swansea players would have been at home relaxing before Stoke were back in Stoke. Luxurious travel is better but still not restful. Derby's travel was less than Stoke's so how do you explain there lack of performance last night? Quality sleep is not possible in hotel beds either which Stoke had to do twice in less than a week. Yes I know as football players they are used to it but the one thing I look forward to at the end of a holiday is my own bed. It seems totally unfair to have teams playing away on Saturday and Tuesday against teams that have been at home for both matches. What happened to alternate home away matches. They seem very rare these days. At least midweek matches travelling should be kept to a minimum for the fans as well as teams. Piss weak excuse.....that is all
|
|
|
Post by juiceandbits on Apr 10, 2019 9:41:58 GMT
Potter has done an amazing job in a short space of time, with barely any money to spend. Some of us said he should have been here last January. Some of us laughed at it, and suggested people only wanted him for his name, hey Gods? I don't disagree with you necessarily but they're very much a mid-table team at the moment - though that's not say they can't seriously push next season. I think they'll be an under-the-radar promoted team next season given people will see their lack of money as a problem.
|
|
|
Post by dirtygary69 on Apr 10, 2019 9:47:50 GMT
Those stats are embarrassing and I don't know how I feel about the whole long-term project at the moment, as this isn't a one-off performance since Jones arrived. If he's going to stick with this formation and be as lean as he says with this '20 man squad' thing, then we essentially need two of the exact same player for every position which means signing half a squad again. It doesn't seem to be a system that allows for players to just come in and "do a job". It needs technique and pace which we still severely lack. Our defence looks strong enough, our central midfield options should be more than good enough but going forwards we are still hopelessly short whether that be personnel or ideas. I'm glad he's shored the defence up but we still need a proper left back and Shawcross won't last all season so we need good back up. The youngsters coming through look promising but you don't know whether they'll sink or swim. If we lose Etebo and/or Allen then that's another two players we need to find who can play the way Jones wants us. The main focus though HAS to be making this side a more potent attacking one. I'm sick to the back teeth of being rubbish at attacking. You can scrape 0-0's and the odd 1-0 as we have done but if your defensive side lets you down like last night, you're in for a nightmare. Like I say, this isn't the first nightmare we've had under NJ. I think most rational fans will recognise the adage that Rome wasn't built in a day but at the moment, we've barely even put the scaffolding up. Yes, Jones can only use what he has at his disposal but like Rowett before him, I struggle to believe this is the best we can expect from the squad of players we have. There are teams in this division with squads much worse than ours who produce better football than we do. I maintain that if we don't start next season off on the front foot, we've got another manager under pressure from the supporters. This dull, defensively sound game will be accepted until this season is out but next season needs to start off with us being an attacking force too. I'm not expecting us to go out battering teams 3 and 4-0 but I am expecting us to be serving up a damned sight better than 0-0's at home against Reading. My fear is that there is simply too much for Jones to do to make that happen. Nights like last night can and do happen so we can't isolate it too much, especially in a dead rubber but it is worrying that this squad of players can be so poor against an average team like Swansea. When was the last time we looked to put anybody to the sword like that? Shored up defences don’t have 31 shots against them Are you deliberately missing the point? Before that we'd kept 5 clean sheets in a row, took Shawcross out and it went to shit.
|
|
|
Post by nottsover60 on Apr 10, 2019 9:49:23 GMT
May be only 90 minutes but what time do you think they left the ground? Then they had the journey home from Stoke. Swansea players would have been at home relaxing before Stoke were back in Stoke. Luxurious travel is better but still not restful. Derby's travel was less than Stoke's so how do you explain there lack of performance last night? Quality sleep is not possible in hotel beds either which Stoke had to do twice in less than a week. Yes I know as football players they are used to it but the one thing I look forward to at the end of a holiday is my own bed. It seems totally unfair to have teams playing away on Saturday and Tuesday against teams that have been at home for both matches. What happened to alternate home away matches. They seem very rare these days. At least midweek matches travelling should be kept to a minimum for the fans as well as teams. Piss weak excuse.....that is all So how do you explain Derby's weak performance then? (against the team we beat of course) You don't think Jones and Lampard needed time which they didn't get to work on how they were going to counter the strengths of Swansea and Blackburn?
|
|
|
Post by Absolution on Apr 10, 2019 9:59:02 GMT
Potter would have been every bit as much of a gamble as Jones, for very similar reasons. I doubt either team will be regretting their choice in a couple of years time.
|
|
|
Post by potterpaul on Apr 10, 2019 9:59:47 GMT
Piss weak excuse.....that is all So how do you explain Derby's weak performance then? (against the team we beat of course) You don't think Jones and Lampard needed time which they didn't get to work on how they were going to counter the strengths of Swansea and Blackburn? The fixtures are not a secret, we have just had an International break, plenty of time to prepare for both matches and the upcoming one at weekend. FFS get a grip and stop acting like Stoke City is some type of tinpot provincial club.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2019 10:09:58 GMT
Potter would have been every bit as much of a gamble as Jones, for very similar reasons. I doubt either team will be regretting their choice in a couple of years time. Jones won't get a couple of years here. Some are well on his back already.
|
|
|
Post by chiswickpotter on Apr 10, 2019 10:10:27 GMT
It was an embarrassing evening. I don't know where Jones starts with this lot. The only players worth keeping are Batth and Etebo, we just need to get rid of as many as possible and I hope he has a clear idea of 6-7 players he wants for this summer who would go straight in our team Batth was awful last night, which was not that surprising as its one of the few times we have played against a team with pace and mobility. Our alst 9 games have shown we are not far off against the average in this division, though when Villa picked up the pace we really struggled, but to be in the top 2 playing a diamond we need at least 5 new starters, Right Back with more pace than Tom, Left Back so Brun moves inside, defensive midfield, attacking midfield and a partner for Vokes with more ability to run with the ball at pace.
|
|
|
Post by nottsover60 on Apr 10, 2019 10:24:02 GMT
So how do you explain Derby's weak performance then? (against the team we beat of course) You don't think Jones and Lampard needed time which they didn't get to work on how they were going to counter the strengths of Swansea and Blackburn? The fixtures are not a secret, we have just had an International break, plenty of time to prepare for both matches and the upcoming one at weekend. FFS get a grip and stop acting like Stoke City is some type of tinpot provincial club. So we were supposed to predict the injuries? How many of our players do you think would not be confused by talking tactics over international break when half the team are not there? You don't think tactics are practised for each match? Shawcross said last week that Pullis had them walking through tactics for two days, boring but effective as they all knew exactly what to do. I am not for one minute saying we are a tinpot club. Even with all the money in the world you can't keep players fresh sleeping in two different hotel rooms in a week regardless of the amount of travel. You haven't explained Derby's poor performance
|
|
|
Post by thevoid on Apr 10, 2019 14:30:39 GMT
Blackburn away, is only 90 minutes up the road. Swansea, yes that is 3 1/2 hours. The coaches they travel in are luxurious, so the travelling is not an excuse I'm afraid. May be only 90 minutes but what time do you think they left the ground? Then they had the journey home from Stoke. Swansea players would have been at home relaxing before Stoke were back in Stoke. Luxurious travel is better but still not restful. Derby's travel was less than Stoke's so how do you explain there lack of performance last night? Quality sleep is not possible in hotel beds either which Stoke had to do twice in less than a week. Yes I know as football players they are used to it but the one thing I look forward to at the end of a holiday is my own bed. It seems totally unfair to have teams playing away on Saturday and Tuesday against teams that have been at home for both matches. What happened to alternate home away matches. They seem very rare these days. At least midweek matches travelling should be kept to a minimum for the fans as well as teams. We were playing Swansea away, not Kuban Krasnodar
|
|
|
Post by crouchpotato1 on Apr 10, 2019 14:33:33 GMT
A lot of rumours about Potter going to WBA in the summer
|
|
|
Post by str8outtahampton on Apr 10, 2019 14:59:45 GMT
May be only 90 minutes but what time do you think they left the ground? Then they had the journey home from Stoke. Swansea players would have been at home relaxing before Stoke were back in Stoke. Luxurious travel is better but still not restful. Derby's travel was less than Stoke's so how do you explain there lack of performance last night? Quality sleep is not possible in hotel beds either which Stoke had to do twice in less than a week. Yes I know as football players they are used to it but the one thing I look forward to at the end of a holiday is my own bed. It seems totally unfair to have teams playing away on Saturday and Tuesday against teams that have been at home for both matches. What happened to alternate home away matches. They seem very rare these days. At least midweek matches travelling should be kept to a minimum for the fans as well as teams. Piss weak excuse.....that is all Absolute twaddle. Piss weak is nowhere near strong enough. How about toe-curlingly, buttock-clenchingly, knuckle-chewingly ****ing embarrassing?
|
|
|
Post by str8outtahampton on Apr 10, 2019 15:53:31 GMT
Blackburn away, is only 90 minutes up the road. Swansea, yes that is 3 1/2 hours. The coaches they travel in are luxurious, so the travelling is not an excuse I'm afraid. May be only 90 minutes but what time do you think they left the ground? Then they had the journey home from Stoke. Swansea players would have been at home relaxing before Stoke were back in Stoke. Luxurious travel is better but still not restful. Derby's travel was less than Stoke's so how do you explain there lack of performance last night? Quality sleep is not possible in hotel beds either which Stoke had to do twice in less than a week. Yes I know as football players they are used to it but the one thing I look forward to at the end of a holiday is my own bed. It seems totally unfair to have teams playing away on Saturday and Tuesday against teams that have been at home for both matches. What happened to alternate home away matches. They seem very rare these days. At least midweek matches travelling should be kept to a minimum for the fans as well as teams. Stoke had to spend the night in a hotel ahead of the Blackburn game? Possible, but completely unnecessary. Do you know that for a fact? Quality sleep not possible in a hotel bed? That's an opinion, certainly not a fact. The Derby result is irrelevant. It could be down to countless factors. We will never know. But it certainly doesn't support your more general argument. You might as well cite Liverpool at Southampton the other day as evidence that travel and hotel accommodation is excellent preparation for an away match. The travel is a complete red herring. And an embarrassing one at that.
|
|