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Post by salopstick on Mar 11, 2019 13:20:52 GMT
Outs 1 Jack Butland - Good goalkeeper but cash, in too bigger profile for a Championship and his emotions may effect other players. 2 Moritz Bauer - We have Edwards and to big profile to be squad player, let's free the wages. 4 Joe Allen - Committed and professional but just time for a change lets free up the wages for a different type of Championship midfielder with Premiership potential, natural churn. 5 Ashley Williams - Season loan no point in taking it any further 7 Tom Ince - Just doesn't seem like a Stoke player lets look for an alternative 10 Benik Afobe - Will anyone take him. (Both Ince and Afobe have been terrible signings) 12 Josh Tymon - Just not worked out 15 Bruno Martins Indi - Again committed and professional but time for a change let's find a strong left sided centre back to storm the Championship with. 18 Mame Biram Diouf - Yet again committed and professional but time for a change, not really suited for a Championship challenge lets look for younger stock with potential, natural churn. 19 Saido Berahino - __________ 24 Darren Fletcher - No point in taking it any further. Unsure 8 Peter Etebo - Down to the player really does he want to leave. 17 Ryan Shawcross - Retain as centre back squad cover and knows the club or does he seek new challenges. Retains 10 Sam Vokes 11 James McClean 14 Danny Batth 16 Charlie Adam 22 Sam Clucas 27 Bojan 30 Tom Edwards 32 Adam Federici 38 Ryan Woods I think we are looking at making anywhere between ten to twelve new signings if we can move those players mentioned on, a fresh clean out of the decks and a new era. how can you say josh tymon “hasn’t worked out” but say afobe and ince are “terrible signings” Ince and afobe are massively proven at this level and imo it is then that haven’t worked out more to do with the positions and roles they have been asked to play
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Post by thehoof on Mar 11, 2019 18:48:20 GMT
Outs 1 Jack Butland - Good goalkeeper but cash, in too bigger profile for a Championship and his emotions may effect other players. 2 Moritz Bauer - We have Edwards and to big profile to be squad player, let's free the wages. 4 Joe Allen - Committed and professional but just time for a change lets free up the wages for a different type of Championship midfielder with Premiership potential, natural churn. 5 Ashley Williams - Season loan no point in taking it any further 7 Tom Ince - Just doesn't seem like a Stoke player lets look for an alternative 10 Benik Afobe - Will anyone take him. (Both Ince and Afobe have been terrible signings) 12 Josh Tymon - Just not worked out 15 Bruno Martins Indi - Again committed and professional but time for a change let's find a strong left sided centre back to storm the Championship with. 18 Mame Biram Diouf - Yet again committed and professional but time for a change, not really suited for a Championship challenge lets look for younger stock with potential, natural churn. 19 Saido Berahino - __________ 24 Darren Fletcher - No point in taking it any further. Unsure 8 Peter Etebo - Down to the player really does he want to leave. 17 Ryan Shawcross - Retain as centre back squad cover and knows the club or does he seek new challenges. Retains 10 Sam Vokes 11 James McClean 14 Danny Batth 16 Charlie Adam 22 Sam Clucas 27 Bojan 30 Tom Edwards 32 Adam Federici 38 Ryan Woods I think we are looking at making anywhere between ten to twelve new signings if we can move those players mentioned on, a fresh clean out of the decks and a new era. how can you say josh tymon “hasn’t worked out” but say afobe and ince are “terrible signings” Ince and afobe are massively proven at this level and imo it is then that haven’t worked out more to do with the positions and roles they have been asked to play So what is Ince’s position? He’s not a no.10 and he’s also not a “proper” winger? For the last 2 years he’s been ineffective- dropped by Huddersfield and at best, massively inconsistent for us. Afobe might be better playing off Vokes, but his touch is appalling for a skilled position. I’ve not seen anything that makes me think either Ince or Afobe are particularly better than many other Championship players who operate in the same positions.
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Post by smallthorner on Mar 11, 2019 19:36:44 GMT
I simply can't understand the fact the person who gave Wimmer a contract until 2022 - is still in a job. How? Hughes wanted the player he got sacked Scholes negotiated the fee and the contract As it was such a large fee 😫 Stoke had to spread the cost over a longer contact. So the primary issue was manager poor judgement and ridiculous fee. Had we paid £6m for him he would have been on a three year contract. So next time we are in a position to pay large fees we hat to be much much better at getting the right players in. Will always be duds,every club had them,but we had far too many. Wimmer, Imbula and Berahino. If two were successful you could live with one bombing. If one was successful it would be painful. All three is appalling. Great post. Said the same in the past. We only needed one of the trio to perform to their potential abilities and we would have been in a different position now. Three massively bad signings that have sent our Club into a downward spiral.
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Post by wilcopotter on Mar 11, 2019 22:14:40 GMT
All the years we never had any money and when we got it, we WASTED it.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2019 14:50:55 GMT
We may well have to call on Tymon for the next three games, with Clucas suspended. If anything happens to Bruno, and something frequently has, Josh will be the only naturally left-sided defender on our books, and the only left-sided alternative to having McClean as a defensive winger.
We have to believe Jones hasn't given up on him, though many supporters have. He must have tried to weave his magic wand at the lad. He's been getting rave reviews in the Sentinel for his Academy performances, and they of course are never wrong, well hardly.
He's been in a number of the matchday back up squads, along with Sorensen, though not actually in the matchday squad itself. He probably should be on the bench for the next three.
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Post by Veritas on Mar 12, 2019 18:36:02 GMT
We may well have to call on Tymon for the next three games, with Clucas suspended. If anything happens to Bruno, and something frequently has, Josh will be the only naturally left-sided defender on our books, and the only left-sided alternative to having McClean as a defensive winger. We have to believe Jones hasn't given up on him, though many supporters have. He must have tried to weave his magic wand at the lad. He's been getting rave reviews in the Sentinel for his Academy performances, and they of course are never wrong, well hardly. He's been in a number of the matchday back up squads, along with Sorensen, though not actually in the matchday squad itself. He probably should be on the bench for the next three. I think a Bruno injury would see Edwards and Bauer covering both FB positions.
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Post by FullerMagic on Mar 14, 2019 9:09:35 GMT
I keep holding out to see some spark of life from any of the Rowett signings to suggest thy're salvageable and could be part of a solution and future.
Apart from Afobe's one-off display against Forest, worryingly they're all showing absolutely nothing.
And they're going to be an absolute bugger to shift.
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Mar 18, 2019 15:06:27 GMT
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Post by silverdollar on Mar 19, 2019 8:08:42 GMT
I am pretty sure that Nathan Jones will have a good idea of how he intends to move the club forward into the new season. Some fans have already made their thoughts clear. I think there is inevitably going to be a massive clear out. I think there are only ten who you would commit to keep. Definite keep:- Edwards, Batth, Allen, Etebo, Vokes, Clucas, Verlinden, Campbell, Ince, Afobe ( Even in this ten I personally have my reservations over Vokes, Ince and Afobe)
Question Marks:- Butland, Indi, Shawcross, Haugaard, Woods, Adam, McClean ( Butland because bigger clubs will put in for him. I would make every effort to keep him. I would let McClean go if a good bid came in)
Move out:- Berahino, Fletcher, Bauer, Tymon, Imbula, NDiaye, Wimmer, Bojan, Diouf
What an interesting summer lies ahead!
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 19, 2019 8:14:41 GMT
Reservations over Vokes? He's done well I thought?
The question as ever is how we get rid of that dead wood, who are on big contracts and who aren't going to command anything like the fees we paid for them.
I think we'll struggle to hold onto Allen and Jack will definitely be on his way.
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Post by silverdollar on Mar 19, 2019 8:27:17 GMT
Reservations over Vokes? He's done well I thought? The question as ever is how we get rid of that dead wood, who are on big contracts and who aren't going to command anything like the fees we paid for them. I think we'll struggle to hold onto Allen and Jack will definitely be on his way. Pace is everything in the game today and although Vokes has a good goal scoring record he lacks pace!
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 19, 2019 8:29:24 GMT
Reservations over Vokes? He's done well I thought? The question as ever is how we get rid of that dead wood, who are on big contracts and who aren't going to command anything like the fees we paid for them. I think we'll struggle to hold onto Allen and Jack will definitely be on his way. Pace is everything in the game today and although Vokes has a good goal scoring record he lacks pace! Pace is hugely important in the game but not all centre forwards have to have it. How many target men have pace? Getting pace around him will be the key.
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Post by sneydgreenstokie1 on Mar 19, 2019 8:34:24 GMT
Pace is everything in the game today and although Vokes has a good goal scoring record he lacks pace! Pace is hugely important in the game but not all centre forwards have to have it. How many target men have pace? Getting pace around him will be the key. Totally agree. Harry Kane is not slow but certainly does not have pace either. (Please note I am not saying Sam Vokes is like Harry Kane!)
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Post by silverdollar on Mar 19, 2019 8:52:46 GMT
Pace is everything in the game today and although Vokes has a good goal scoring record he lacks pace! Pace is hugely important in the game but not all centre forwards have to have it. How many target men have pace? Getting pace around him will be the key. I am talking about how I see us moving forward and although I haven't written off Vokes I have not really been impressed.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 19, 2019 9:05:27 GMT
Pace is hugely important in the game but not all centre forwards have to have it. How many target men have pace? Getting pace around him will be the key. I am talking about how I see us moving forward and although I haven't written off Vokes I have not really been impressed. He’s here as the focal point Jones said he wanted. He’s certainly been that and he wins loads in the air. He can play with his back to goal and the ball sticks to him. His goal against Villa was superb. And we’ve not even come close to seeing the best of him yet. In the diamond, presumably the plan will be to pair him with Campbell or someone equally pacy to profit from the space he creates drawing defenders to him. He’ll do well here.
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Post by FullerMagic on Mar 19, 2019 9:20:15 GMT
Does Shawcross' very promising recent form mean we can pencil him in as a starter next season?
xxx
Edwards Batth Shawcross xxx
xxx
Etebo xxx
xxx
Vokes xxx
Then we'll have Souttar, Campbell, Verlinden knocking around the fringes of the team, although not sure where Verlinden would play in a diamond?
Would want Butland and Allen to stay, but they almost certainly won't. Can see BMI going too. Hopefully we can pencil Etebo in, and hope he doesn't go all Ndiaye and start demanding a move, which has got to be a possibility. Of the rest, definitely not sure about Afobe or Ince. They'll both be on about £1.5m-a-year though, so very hard to move regardless. Woods? Who knows. I'd be looking to shift virtually everyone else, but got a feeling Clucas will stay.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 19, 2019 9:23:29 GMT
Does Shawcross' very promising recent form mean we can pencil him in as a starter next season? xxxEdwards Batth Shawcross xxxxxxEtebo xxxxxxVokes xxxThen we'll have Souttar, Campbell, Verlinden knocking around the fringes of the team, although not sure where Verlinden would play in a diamond? Would want Butland and Allen to stay, but they almost certainly won't. Can see BMI going too. Hopefully we can pencil Etebo in, and hope he doesn't go all Ndiaye and start demanding a move, which has got to be a possibility. Of the rest, definitely not sure about Afobe or Ince. They'll both me on about £1.5m-a-year though, so very hard to move regardless. Woods? Who knows. I'd be looking to shift virtually everyone else, but got a feeling Clucas will stay. He seems to really rate Clucas - am I right in thinking he’d played pretty much every minute prior to his ridiculous blood rush?
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Post by Clem Fandango on Mar 19, 2019 9:30:03 GMT
Does Shawcross' very promising recent form mean we can pencil him in as a starter next season? xxxEdwards Batth Shawcross xxxxxxEtebo xxxxxxVokes xxxThen we'll have Souttar, Campbell, Verlinden knocking around the fringes of the team, although not sure where Verlinden would play in a diamond? Would want Butland and Allen to stay, but they almost certainly won't. Can see BMI going too. Hopefully we can pencil Etebo in, and hope he doesn't go all Ndiaye and start demanding a move, which has got to be a possibility. Of the rest, definitely not sure about Afobe or Ince. They'll both be on about £1.5m-a-year though, so very hard to move regardless. Woods? Who knows. I'd be looking to shift virtually everyone else, but got a feeling Clucas will stay. There are big question marks over that midfield. Realistically I’d only want Etebo to stay out of the lot we have but you could make a case for most of them going. I’d add Sorensen to the mix but he might need a loan somewhere. As for the diamond I’m convinced Jones is going to need a couple of systems so he’ll need to have a wide man or two on the books.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 19, 2019 9:31:56 GMT
Does Shawcross' very promising recent form mean we can pencil him in as a starter next season? xxxEdwards Batth Shawcross xxxxxxEtebo xxxxxxVokes xxxThen we'll have Souttar, Campbell, Verlinden knocking around the fringes of the team, although not sure where Verlinden would play in a diamond? Would want Butland and Allen to stay, but they almost certainly won't. Can see BMI going too. Hopefully we can pencil Etebo in, and hope he doesn't go all Ndiaye and start demanding a move, which has got to be a possibility. Of the rest, definitely not sure about Afobe or Ince. They'll both be on about £1.5m-a-year though, so very hard to move regardless. Woods? Who knows. I'd be looking to shift virtually everyone else, but got a feeling Clucas will stay. There are big question marks over that midfield. Realistically I’d only want Etebo to stay out of the lot we have but you could make a case for most of them going. I’d add Sorensen to the mix but he might need a loan somewhere. As for the diamond I’m convinced Jones is going to need a couple of systems so he’ll need to have a wide man or two on the books. If Allen can play at the base of midfield in the disciplined way he did against Forest he’d be worth keeping, but you definitely sense he might be off regardless.
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Post by FullerMagic on Mar 19, 2019 9:32:37 GMT
Does Shawcross' very promising recent form mean we can pencil him in as a starter next season? xxxEdwards Batth Shawcross xxxxxxEtebo xxxxxxVokes xxxThen we'll have Souttar, Campbell, Verlinden knocking around the fringes of the team, although not sure where Verlinden would play in a diamond? Would want Butland and Allen to stay, but they almost certainly won't. Can see BMI going too. Hopefully we can pencil Etebo in, and hope he doesn't go all Ndiaye and start demanding a move, which has got to be a possibility. Of the rest, definitely not sure about Afobe or Ince. They'll both me on about £1.5m-a-year though, so very hard to move regardless. Woods? Who knows. I'd be looking to shift virtually everyone else, but got a feeling Clucas will stay. He seems to really rate Clucas - am I right in thinking he’d played pretty much every minute prior to his ridiculous blood rush? Yeah - every second of every game. I think you've got to read something into that! Hart spoke very positively about him too - and it seemed to be Clucas (rather than Vokes) Jones was really bigging up in his conference too. Hard to fathom on the evidence so far, but all the evidence would seem to point to him staying? www.signal2.co.uk/news/local-sport/nathan-jones-well-miss-being-able-to-select-sam-clucas/ (1:30) "We're missing Sam. He's a big miss. For me, he's a wonderful player and I've really enjoyed working with him - and he's going to get better"
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Post by silverdollar on Mar 19, 2019 10:39:18 GMT
Does Shawcross' very promising recent form mean we can pencil him in as a starter next season? xxxEdwards Batth Shawcross xxxxxxEtebo xxxxxxVokes xxxThen we'll have Souttar, Campbell, Verlinden knocking around the fringes of the team, although not sure where Verlinden would play in a diamond? Would want Butland and Allen to stay, but they almost certainly won't. Can see BMI going too. Hopefully we can pencil Etebo in, and hope he doesn't go all Ndiaye and start demanding a move, which has got to be a possibility. Of the rest, definitely not sure about Afobe or Ince. They'll both be on about £1.5m-a-year though, so very hard to move regardless. Woods? Who knows. I'd be looking to shift virtually everyone else, but got a feeling Clucas will stay. I think you need to look at the last two matches very closely and then tell me which moments were promising because Batth is the hero and Shawcross is still making errors.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 19, 2019 11:31:16 GMT
Does Shawcross' very promising recent form mean we can pencil him in as a starter next season? xxxEdwards Batth Shawcross xxxxxxEtebo xxxxxxVokes xxxThen we'll have Souttar, Campbell, Verlinden knocking around the fringes of the team, although not sure where Verlinden would play in a diamond? Would want Butland and Allen to stay, but they almost certainly won't. Can see BMI going too. Hopefully we can pencil Etebo in, and hope he doesn't go all Ndiaye and start demanding a move, which has got to be a possibility. Of the rest, definitely not sure about Afobe or Ince. They'll both be on about £1.5m-a-year though, so very hard to move regardless. Woods? Who knows. I'd be looking to shift virtually everyone else, but got a feeling Clucas will stay. I think you need to look at the last two matches very closely and then tell me which moments were promising because Batth is the hero and Shawcross is still making errors. They’ve both been very good of late.
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Post by realstokebloke on Mar 19, 2019 11:45:32 GMT
He seems to really rate Clucas - am I right in thinking he’d played pretty much every minute prior to his ridiculous blood rush? Yeah - every second of every game. I think you've got to read something into that! Hart spoke very positively about him too - and it seemed to be Clucas (rather than Vokes) Jones was really bigging up in his conference too. Hard to fathom on the evidence so far, but all the evidence would seem to point to him staying? www.signal2.co.uk/news/local-sport/nathan-jones-well-miss-being-able-to-select-sam-clucas/ (1:30) "We're missing Sam. He's a big miss. For me, he's a wonderful player and I've really enjoyed working with him - and he's going to get better" Haha.
Isn't that the very same quote I put on here after his presser thinking he did mean Clucas & I, rightly, said wt(actual)f in response?
And in response to that, some esteemed and better informed posters (mentioning no names) 'corrected' me, saying it was Vokes he was parping on about?
No apologies needed folks but, nevertheless, wt(actual)f is he on about if he does indeed mean Clucas?
Can a better player watcher tell me what I'm missing?
So without someone pointing out why I need a Damascene conversion on his merits, for me, he can fook right off with the rest of them.
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Post by thebet365 on Mar 19, 2019 11:51:05 GMT
It seems very strange that for all the moaning that's gone on all season Shawcross Finished Williams shite Martina awful Pieters woeful BMI not the player he once was
For all the supposed shit we've had at the back this season. Only 4 teams have conceded less goals than us.
We've all spent that much time concentrating on how bad the defence is we've forgot it's goals that get you promoted/win things. Hopefully Jones will take the shackles off these last few games. We know we can defend now, we need to see who can attack.
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Post by nantwichstokie on Mar 19, 2019 11:51:09 GMT
Does Shawcross' very promising recent form mean we can pencil him in as a starter next season? xxxEdwards Batth Shawcross xxxxxxEtebo xxxxxxVokes xxxThen we'll have Souttar, Campbell, Verlinden knocking around the fringes of the team, although not sure where Verlinden would play in a diamond? Would want Butland and Allen to stay, but they almost certainly won't. Can see BMI going too. Hopefully we can pencil Etebo in, and hope he doesn't go all Ndiaye and start demanding a move, which has got to be a possibility. Of the rest, definitely not sure about Afobe or Ince. They'll both be on about £1.5m-a-year though, so very hard to move regardless. Woods? Who knows. I'd be looking to shift virtually everyone else, but got a feeling Clucas will stay. I think you need to look at the last two matches very closely and then tell me which moments were promising because Batth is the hero and Shawcross is still making errors. I'm hopeful that Harry Soutter comes back in as an able option to slot in at the back next season. Seems to of done himself no harm at Fleetwood.
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Post by FullerMagic on Mar 19, 2019 12:01:36 GMT
Yeah - every second of every game. I think you've got to read something into that! Hart spoke very positively about him too - and it seemed to be Clucas (rather than Vokes) Jones was really bigging up in his conference too. Hard to fathom on the evidence so far, but all the evidence would seem to point to him staying? www.signal2.co.uk/news/local-sport/nathan-jones-well-miss-being-able-to-select-sam-clucas/ (1:30) "We're missing Sam. He's a big miss. For me, he's a wonderful player and I've really enjoyed working with him - and he's going to get better" Haha.
Isn't that the very same quote I put on here after his presser thinking he did mean Clucas & I, rightly, said wt(actual)f in response?
And in response to that, some esteemed and better informed posters (mentioning no names) 'corrected' me, saying it was Vokes he was parping on about?
No apologies needed folks but, nevertheless, wt(actual)f is he on about if he does indeed mean Clucas?
Can a better player watcher tell me what I'm missing?
So without someone pointing out why I need a Damascene conversion on his merits, for me, he can fook right off with the rest of them.
It's a bit odd. The Sentinel assumed he was on about Vokes, but I think it is Clucas if you look at the clip. I don't think he's been diabolical under Jones, but haven't seen anything to warrant that kind of praise. Thought he had a couple of decentish games at full-back and was pretty good against Forest though. Think it's all a moot point as there'll be no interest in him in the summer for a worthwhile fee and on Stoke-type wages, so he'll be here. Hopefully not as a starter. This kind of talk was only 18 months ago though! www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-4407804/England-eye-Hull-pair-Harry-Maguire-Sam-www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/expert-verdict-sam-clucas-swansea-13516992
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Post by FullerMagic on Mar 19, 2019 12:05:13 GMT
I think you need to look at the last two matches very closely and then tell me which moments were promising because Batth is the hero and Shawcross is still making errors. They’ve both been very good of late. I'd like to see him finish the season well - but I think we can at least begin to think about him being an important player for us again next season. Must admit I was close to giving up on him.
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Post by GallysGuitar on Mar 19, 2019 12:05:30 GMT
I think we need some pace alongside Batth and someone who is comfortable on the ball. The distribution into midfield is a major issue for me.
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Post by jimmygscfc on Mar 19, 2019 12:25:58 GMT
They’ve both been very good of late. I'd like to see him finish the season well - but I think we can at least begin to think about him being an important player for us again next season. Must admit I was close to giving up on him. In a perfect world, we'd have a left footer on the left side of the defence (Bruno?). I've not been convinced Ryan is showing anything other than he's fitter than he was. Both him and Baath are similar in that they're old school and we could really do with a more polished footballer alongside, although not sure Nathan subscribes to that notion. Can't help feeling Bruno would still be playing alongside Danny if we had a left back of note. The other issue is the captaincy...I'm sure Baath is pencilled in as the leader in the new regime which puts a question mark over Ryan for next season. If change is coming then I still see Ryan on the bench at best. I'm convinced Jack and Joe will go, bringing in some cash and with Fletcher and Adam joining them through the out door, we have to build a new midfield. I can see Clucas getting better in a slightly more advanced left sided role (I think he'll come good) but not sure Woods is the answer. A strong defensive midfielder is crucial, as well as pace up front. My hope is that Norwich came from nowhere to sit on top of the division, but to get anywhere near, major change is necessary. If you offered me 6th place for next season now, I'd bite your hand off.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 19, 2019 12:30:56 GMT
They’ve both been very good of late. I'd like to see him finish the season well - but I think we can at least begin to think about him being an important player for us again next season. Must admit I was close to giving up on him. Agreed. It's far harder to see Bruno here come August than Ryan though.
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