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Post by str8outtahampton on Feb 18, 2019 10:11:51 GMT
I wonder if we had Ipswich's fans,would we actually play better? There they are, rock bottom of the league with our cast off manager, fall behind to our fluke goal but carry of cheering their team until they equalise I looked at their previous two games and the fans were the same - and they managed a draw against Derby, against the odds Fan power eh - Worth a try? It’s the mirthless laugh of the damned though isn’t it? What choice do they have? They’ve been through the bit where we are now and reacted much the same way - ask Mick McCarthy. Mirthless Laugh of the Damned. Either a track on a Uriah Heep 1970 album. Or a line from Dante's "Inferno". Or quite possibly both?
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Post by philb on Feb 18, 2019 10:18:38 GMT
I have to be honest, i was fuming after that equaliser went in this afternoon. It just seems that no matter what the situation, we find a way of fucking it up. Coasting 1-0 against the worst side in the division and the manager decides he's going to throw on the quite frankly fucking useless Benik Afobe to play on the wing, then compounds the error by chucking Ryan on at the back, thus creating chaos out of what was previously a comfortable and organised defensive performance. It pains me to say it, but we look incapable of winning any game of football against any team in Britain at the moment. Even The Vale would probably beat us- that's how bad the situation's become. How much worse could it get though? Despite this afternoon's clusterfuck of a managerial performance, it's too early to judge Nathan Jones yet: he's inherited the biggest mess I think any Stoke manager has found himself landed with. However, I can't see how anybody could turn this around- we have a squad of expensive, high earning tosspots on long contracts who no-one in their right mind would want to buy. If this squad were in League One, I'm not sure they'd even finish in the top half, that's how utterly fucking awful they are. How is anyone supposed to sort that out? The whole atmosphere around the club stinks: it's a self-perpetuating culture of failure and antagonism. Fans turn up for matches expecting the worst, so that's what we end up getting. The first mistake players make we turn on them and as a result they go from bad to worse. However, the only reason we are so hostile is because those tosspots on the pitch continually let us down in the past and continue to do so now. It's a spiral of negativity that no one seems able to escape from. We won't go down this season, but next...I'm worried already. The financial situation's not going to get any better and the club must already be haemorrhaging money through its wage bill. Could we do a Sunderland next year? Could it get even worse than that? I'm genuinely worried that it could...and I really don't know what the answer is. To be honest I was fully expecting us to concede, and we duly did. Stoke one nil up away from home is a recipe for disaster. Sadly I wasn’t even that bothered that we had conceded. I’ve given up on this season and just hope we can scrape a few wins to stop us dropping any lower and avoiding any further embarrassment. Next season is a different matter altogether and it’s going to take a huge momentum shift and change in personnel to get us firing again.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2019 10:31:18 GMT
I've a feeling that the Stoke fans who were prepared to travel to Ipswich to watch this shit may be rather more fanatical than the vast majority of home supporters. Sometimes the views of supporters that are so fanatical need to be taken lightly.
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Post by Davef on Feb 18, 2019 10:35:25 GMT
I've a feeling that the Stoke fans who were prepared to travel to Ipswich to watch this shit may be rather more fanatical than the vast majority of home supporters. Sometimes the views of supporters that are so fanatical need to be taken lightly. Would you care to expand on that last paragraph?
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Post by Gods on Feb 18, 2019 10:37:19 GMT
We'll slip to 18th tomorrow night if QPR get a point at home to WBA. I don't think we can sink any lower than that. I myself could manage this squad of players to top half and perhaps the play-offs. It's just poor team selections, poor motivational skills, poor substitutions and an overall dismal reaction from many of the players. I've never met you, but do you know what? I genuinely think you would do no worse. If and when you do take over, can I volunteer to take penalties? Even now, with my old git's rail pass I think I would score at least as many as our shower of you-know-what on the last dozen occasions. As for saving them, it would not quite be statistically impossible to do worse. But as near as makes no difference. So jaw-droppingly, mind-bogglingly staggering that you could be forgiven for looking towards betting patterns across the other side of the world. Ha! That's the other thing, penalties, you've got that gig. I'm certain you'd slot away at least 80% of them, you just role them in the corner don't you ?! ![:))](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/jitsPgqXBozY69AOPrPg.gif)
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2019 10:51:33 GMT
I've a feeling that the Stoke fans who were prepared to travel to Ipswich to watch this shit may be rather more fanatical than the vast majority of home supporters. Sometimes the views of supporters that are so fanatical need to be taken lightly. Would you care to expand on that last paragraph? Yep - some of the real hardcore, all-weather, no matter how bad things get supporters tend to back new managers and players with puppy eyed glee and sometimes can't accept that we may have just replace shit with more shit. Their views aren't always based on either fact or commonsense. Believe it or not you can be too fanatical.
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Post by jimmygscfc on Feb 18, 2019 11:04:02 GMT
The fact that they're prepared to travel a few hundred miles to watch that 'shit', as you so eloquently put it, while you sit at your keyboard pontificating, gives them the right to say a lot more than you. Puppy-eyed glee? What patronising bollocks.
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Post by Davef on Feb 18, 2019 11:09:17 GMT
Would you care to expand on that last paragraph? Yep - some of the real hardcore, all-weather, no matter how bad things get supporters tend to back new managers and players with puppy eyed glee and sometimes can't accept that we may have just replace shit with more shit. Their views aren't always based on either fact or commonsense. Believe it or not you can be too fanatical. Well in my experience, there are Stoke fans who won't accept any criticism of the club but those that do commit themselves to watch this shit in such far flung places as Ipswich are far more vociferous in their criticism than those that don't bother. You should've been in our car on the way home!
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Post by chiswickpotter on Feb 18, 2019 11:23:12 GMT
That is way too much of a free pass. We'll probably have the biggest budget in the league again next year. Anything less than being in and around the top six will constitute massive failure. There's too much to sort out. Next season will be what this season should have been. Money spent on shifting players out, bringing the right type of player through the door and starting to build a new squad from scratch. The spending from last summer has just compounded the existing problems and created the need for more surgery than originally required. It's not so much a free pass but a startling reality of where we are. The first pass of the surgeons knife should be around about now (or after early bird) with the removal and replacement of the CEO and Technical Director, in readiness for what is without any shadow of doubt our most important summer of business in modern times. Thats a cop out though. Butland, Edwards, Bauer, Batth, Bruno, Clucas, Etebo, Adam, Ince, Allen, Afobe, Vokes, Diouf, Bojan would be welcomed by most teams in this division and a few by PL clubs, and Woods and McClean by some. The balance is clearly not right, we need more creativity and thrust from midfield, a better attacking left back and better right and left side attackers but it should not be beyond the wit of man to sort. Even accepting the lack of balance, this squad should be doing much better than it is
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Post by thehoof on Feb 18, 2019 11:35:41 GMT
The players we have bought, on the whole,have done well for other clubs. Players like Tom Ince, have a fantastic record at this level. They don’t turn bad overnight . We have been unfortunate in being tangled up with a situation where we have, for the first time in our history, out spent every other team in the league. Fantastic, we have truly come a long way, however, this is new ground for us. We have always been the underdog. Fuller for 250k, Delap for 500k, etc. We made the most out of what we had. Because of this, the fans expectations have created a toxic atmosphere when we lose or draw at home, against so called lesser opponents. Rowett was fired because he was viewed as underachieving for the money spent. This isn’t a new phenomenon. Look at Villa. We now find ourselves in a situation where we have a new manager, who is implementing a new system, one which is probably the most difficult and complicated to learn straight away. This season is a right off. It’s time to reset our expectations, and build for next season. We need to get behind and back Jones,with his vision for how he wants us to play. There is no other way. Football is simple. The more we win, the more the fans will get behind the team. They are suffering with a lack of confidence at the moment, the team and the fans. It will get better. We have to stick together. I don’t think for one moment the players don’t care. We’ve all been through a lot . Give them time. Ince hasn’t turned bad overnight- he’s been a disinterested no mark for nearly 2 years, starting with his time at Huddersfield. He’s not interested in working for the team which when you are a Huddersfield or Stoke player you really need to do. He’s nowhere near “magic” enough to drift around in games which is what he tends to do. When you look at Wolves, their midfield and forwards are comfortable on the ball, Benik struggles to trap a bag of cement hence why they sold him within 2 days of signing him. I am surprised at what we have done to Ryan Woods, I genuinely thought he would be a player; Etebo has energy and some pace but can’t pass to save his life, McLean is a poor man’s SJW whose best days are behind him, Clucas is pretty bland and seems to have a knack of putting his foot in his mouth. Ba’ath and Vokes are new, Ba’ath looks a good fit but with Vokes we need to provide some service to judge. I think our recruitment has been pretty poor for 3 years now, I don’t know enough about our process to blame anyone in particular, but it’s plain that it doesn’t work. I wish that I shared your view that things will get better; I really haven’t felt this depressed about the team since the days of Joe Jordan and Alan Ball.
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Post by stokefanone on Feb 18, 2019 18:24:36 GMT
With the financial burden on the club, by this i mean the unused mega-bucks "stars" Imbula, Wimmer, n'daye, berahino and the players who are just not up to scratch, that we have paid good money for; clucas, ince, woods, mcclean, bauer, allen, etebo, williams and the poor form of butland, and shawcross, the future looks very bleak, nathan jones would need to walk on water to resurrect this club. They have spunked over 100 million in the last 2 years before wages.
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Post by stokesupporter on Feb 18, 2019 18:36:48 GMT
I wouldn't be very sad if we'd got rid of all current players and decided to make a Stoke City a sporting club again. You know, a sporting club which would be consisted of sportsmen.
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Post by wakefieldstokie on Feb 18, 2019 19:09:13 GMT
This isn’t just about the players. The manager needs to sort this shitty situation now, not next season.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2019 19:24:26 GMT
This isn’t just about the players. The manager needs to sort this shitty situation now, not next season. Three managers since MH have failed to sort the situation which suggests the players are the problem. This cannot be sorted without another 2 or 3 windows minimum. This situation can’t be sorted ‘now’ whoever the manager is.
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Post by wakefieldstokie on Feb 18, 2019 19:26:22 GMT
This isn’t just about the players. The manager needs to sort this shitty situation now, not next season. Three managers since MH have failed to sort the situation which suggests the players are the problem. This cannot be sorted without another 2 or 3 windows minimum. This situation can’t be sorted ‘now’ whoever the manager is. They certainly are the problem but I’m saying the manager is too. We’re fasttracking our shitness since nj came in.
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Post by sufolkstokie on Feb 18, 2019 19:32:46 GMT
At the moment the answer is despite the financial backing, VERY
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Post by jezzascfc on Feb 18, 2019 19:34:04 GMT
This isn’t just about the players. The manager needs to sort this shitty situation now, not next season. Would any of us object if he dropped two-thirds of the first team squad and played the kiddies instead this weekend? I would rather back them, with their youthful exuberance, effort and energy, than some of the wasters currently parading themselves limply around the football grounds of England in the (once) glorious red and white stripes. I would not lose any sleep if Wimmer, Badou, Imbula, Bauer, Allen, Tymon, Woods, Adam, Clucas, McClean, Afobe, Vokes, Berahino, Diouf, Fletcher, Ince, Williams, Pieters, Cameron and even Bojan and Shawcross, were never seen "performing" for the club again. That leaves Butland, Bruno, Batth, Edwards and Etebo of the current first team squad, as well as the kiddies! He needs to get tough, not just with the players, but those above him, outlining what he needs in the summer and making sure he gets it.
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Post by deadwait on Feb 18, 2019 19:44:28 GMT
Just maybe, if the Manager played our best side, we might at least see some improvement.
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Post by smallthorner on Feb 18, 2019 20:08:02 GMT
This isn’t just about the players. The manager needs to sort this shitty situation now, not next season. Would any of us object if he dropped two-thirds of the first team squad and played the kiddies instead this weekend? I would rather back them, with their youthful exuberance, effort and energy, than some of the wasters currently parading themselves limply around the football grounds of England in the (once) glorious red and white stripes. I would not lose any sleep if Wimmer, Badou, Imbula, Bauer, Allen, Tymon, Woods, Adam, Clucas, McClean, Afobe, Vokes, Berahino, Diouf, Fletcher, Ince, Williams, Pieters, Cameron and even Bojan and Shawcross, were never seen "performing" for the club again. That leaves Butland, Bruno, Batth, Edwards and Etebo of the current first team squad, as well as the kiddies! He needs to get tough, not just with the players, but those above him, outlining what he needs in the summer and making sure he gets it. It's not going to happen. A "clearout" is a fantasy. Take Imbula for example... Another two years on xxx per week. We are in a perilous situation. I reckon he will have another 2 or 3 new players ro work with in the summer. Probably cheap as chips ex Luton guys. Maybe Butland and Allen will go to generate some funds. I'd love to know the contract and wage situation of the squad. What a chuffin mess.
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Post by jezzascfc on Feb 18, 2019 20:37:10 GMT
Would any of us object if he dropped two-thirds of the first team squad and played the kiddies instead this weekend? I would rather back them, with their youthful exuberance, effort and energy, than some of the wasters currently parading themselves limply around the football grounds of England in the (once) glorious red and white stripes. I would not lose any sleep if Wimmer, Badou, Imbula, Bauer, Allen, Tymon, Woods, Adam, Clucas, McClean, Afobe, Vokes, Berahino, Diouf, Fletcher, Ince, Williams, Pieters, Cameron and even Bojan and Shawcross, were never seen "performing" for the club again. That leaves Butland, Bruno, Batth, Edwards and Etebo of the current first team squad, as well as the kiddies! He needs to get tough, not just with the players, but those above him, outlining what he needs in the summer and making sure he gets it. It's not going to happen. A "clearout" is a fantasy. Take Imbula for example... Another two years on xxx per week. We are in a perilous situation. I reckon he will have another 2 or 3 new players ro work with in the summer. Probably cheap as chips ex Luton guys. Maybe Butland and Allen will go to generate some funds. I'd love to know the contract and wage situation of the squad. What a chuffin mess. Not a total fantasy - loan player gone (Williams) and out of contract players not renewed (Adam, Fletcher, Haugaard). A number of those then put on the transfer list would surely attract some interest at the right price - Bauer, Pieters, Allen, Woods, Clucas, McClean, Bojan, Afobe, Ince, Diouf, even Badou and Imbula (although Wimmer may be stretching it!). We have to lower our prices and even chip in for some of their wages, but we really do need a clean sweep and start again, for the most part.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2019 20:39:24 GMT
It could get very bad, if we don't jettison every one NOT up for it, out of the match day squad
In effect I am saying lambo was right to say... The likes of berahino, Jesse et Al can't be involved because ' they are not professional and if I allow them to be involved, then that makes me unprofessional '
Amazingly plenty on here wanted to argue with him that they don't so see why failing an fa drug test, getting about 3 women pregnant in three weeks, telling the club you need compassionate leave to be with your I'll newborn son in Spain and his mum, then accidentally on purpose, forgetting to visit them and going off and shagging some tart in ibiza or wherever it was, whilst at the time putting in zero effort for Stoke City on the pitch, week in week out but living it large off the pitch, whilst banking about 80k a week, as unprofessional.
I am sorry, anyone who argues we need players like is mad
If you don't like Lambert, just say so, there is no need to defend the idiots he wanted out.
Obviously without Lambert, because he's gone, everyone not up for it as got to go completely from the match day squad. AND no we don't even want them sitting on the bench for 85 minutes and then comming on to f#ck things up.
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Post by smallthorner on Feb 18, 2019 21:06:24 GMT
It's not going to happen. A "clearout" is a fantasy. Take Imbula for example... Another two years on xxx per week. We are in a perilous situation. I reckon he will have another 2 or 3 new players ro work with in the summer. Probably cheap as chips ex Luton guys. Maybe Butland and Allen will go to generate some funds. I'd love to know the contract and wage situation of the squad. What a chuffin mess. Not a total fantasy - loan player gone (Williams) and out of contract players not renewed (Adam, Fletcher, Haugaard). A number of those then put on the transfer list would surely attract some interest at the right price - Bauer, Pieters, Allen, Woods, Clucas, McClean, Bojan, Afobe, Ince, Diouf, even Badou and Imbula (although Wimmer may be stretching it!). We have to lower our prices and even chip in for some of their wages, but we really do need a clean sweep and start again, for the most part. "at the right price" though doesn't quite mean it all implies these days. Most of that group are on super dooper wages that other clubs cannot get near. So the players will "sit" on their contracts until they expire. Saido, Wimmer Bojan and Imbula are on mega bucks. Clucas, Woods, McClean, Ince, Etebo and Afobe will be on high earning long term contracts I imagine. Only the likes of Huddersfield or Fulham would be in the frame. Who knows.?
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Post by wilcopotter on Feb 18, 2019 21:51:59 GMT
Coates put faith in Rowett, to be fair www we’re happy with that at the time. Rowett spent big on shite, with the players he inherited and the money he spent we should be in the top pack now. For me, this seasons failure rests with Rowett. He asked for and got Afobe, persisted with McLean and bought the injured average Clucas etc. Jones now has the job of unraveling the last 3 years. Not sure if he’s the right man. However, we need to stick behind him for at least the whole of next season before judging, because if he gets the sack I dread to think who we would attract next. Chopping changing no good to anyone. Jones has been left with a Hughes/QPR fuck up and a clueless Rowett fuck up. Give Jones time, he’s going to need it.
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Post by jezzascfc on Feb 18, 2019 22:07:42 GMT
Not a total fantasy - loan player gone (Williams) and out of contract players not renewed (Adam, Fletcher, Haugaard). A number of those then put on the transfer list would surely attract some interest at the right price - Bauer, Pieters, Allen, Woods, Clucas, McClean, Bojan, Afobe, Ince, Diouf, even Badou and Imbula (although Wimmer may be stretching it!). We have to lower our prices and even chip in for some of their wages, but we really do need a clean sweep and start again, for the most part. "at the right price" though doesn't quite mean it all implies these days. Most of that group are on super dooper wages that other clubs cannot get near. So the players will "sit" on their contracts until they expire. Saido, Wimmer Bojan and Imbula are on mega bucks. Clucas, Woods, McClean, Ince, Etebo and Afobe will be on high earning long term contracts I imagine. Only the likes of Huddersfield or Fulham would be in the frame. Who knows.? Agreed - hence, "chip in with some of their wages". We have a bad bunch that we simply have to get rid of at whatever cost. If the Coates family are prepared to bear the losses, most can be found new homes.
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Post by kjpt140v on Feb 19, 2019 0:02:47 GMT
I have to be honest, i was fuming after that equaliser went in this afternoon. It just seems that no matter what the situation, we find a way of fucking it up. Coasting 1-0 against the worst side in the division and the manager decides he's going to throw on the quite frankly fucking useless Benik Afobe to play on the wing, then compounds the error by chucking Ryan on at the back, thus creating chaos out of what was previously a comfortable and organised defensive performance. It pains me to say it, but we look incapable of winning any game of football against any team in Britain at the moment. Even The Vale would probably beat us- that's how bad the situation's become. How much worse could it get though? Despite this afternoon's clusterfuck of a managerial performance, it's too early to judge Nathan Jones yet: he's inherited the biggest mess I think any Stoke manager has found himself landed with. However, I can't see how anybody could turn this around- we have a squad of expensive, high earning tosspots on long contracts who no-one in their right mind would want to buy. If this squad were in League One, I'm not sure they'd even finish in the top half, that's how utterly fucking awful they are. How is anyone supposed to sort that out? The whole atmosphere around the club stinks: it's a self-perpetuating culture of failure and antagonism. Fans turn up for matches expecting the worst, so that's what we end up getting. The first mistake players make we turn on them and as a result they go from bad to worse. However, the only reason we are so hostile is because those tosspots on the pitch continually let us down in the past and continue to do so now. It's a spiral of negativity that no one seems able to escape from. We won't go down this season, but next...I'm worried already. The financial situation's not going to get any better and the club must already be haemorrhaging money through its wage bill. Could we do a Sunderland next year? Could it get even worse than that? I'm genuinely worried that it could...and I really don't know what the answer is. I have to say this probably the funniest contribution I've ever read on the Oatcake.
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Post by emery1985 on Feb 19, 2019 0:39:59 GMT
Really really fucking bad. I’m already longing for the days of Patrik Berger and Lee Hendrie.
Now that 2006/7 team was a team of misfits that had character! - can anyone honestly see this shite lot we’re employing now delivering excitement like we felt all those years ago?
I’m not even joking when I say that this current lot aren’t fit to lace Mama’s boots. And it’s only going to get worse before it gets better.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2019 1:03:52 GMT
A different angle:
It took us 23 years to get back to the top tier the last time we were relegated out of it. This also included a couple of slides into the third tier.
It took Fulham five seasons to return (after spending the same amount of seasons in the top tier as we did), Villa are trying (and will probably fail) for the third season, Boro got back for a season after being relegared on 08/09, Derby County haven't made it back after their 11 point season and Hull, Swansea, QPR, Wigan and Reading are all in the same positon we are, despite stints in the top tier when we were there. Sunderland may get promoted.......
Newcastle, West Brom, West Ham and Burnley are the only sides who seem to be able to get back up soon after relegation.
Returning to the top tier is not easy, and will not get any easier.
We are going to need a whole new team to make any sort of serious challenge. The current squad are either damaged, imcopetent or just plain mercenaries incapable of engaging in a 46 game scrap with the well established street fighters in this league. That could take seasons, and with a risk of flirting with relegation (as Fulham did). This could get worse, and it's not going to get much better any time soon.
It's also going to take the right mix of players, which some clubs never achieve to get to the top. Norwich may have found the right mix after three seasons. Have Leeds finally got it right after 17 or 18 seasons....
It even took Pulis two attempts and 5 years to get that mix. And it took some awful seasons to get there.. That 2004/05 season - goodness me. But finsihed with more points and a higher position then than we will this season.
But it's going to be a team of Fullers, Sidibes, Delaps, Cresswells, Shawcross (the 18 year old version), Lawrences and Whelans (who came in at the back end of that season) - not playing on big money but playing like they give a shit and want to earn a crack at the top tier, to get there again.
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