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Post by mrcoke on Feb 16, 2019 17:38:15 GMT
I'm not going to call for him to be sacked for a long time, but he really has got me baffled.
In a way I understand why he brought Shawcross on to add to the defence but it did not work. I have to blame the players for allowing an opponent a free header. But Jones made a sub against Hull when Bojan was pulled off and immediately the opposition scored. Clearly making changes causes disruption.
We have generally defended better since Batth arrived, but our forward play is dire.Even Allen appears to be pacing himself these days and taking it easier. Rowett's signings are proving to be dire, although Clucas has improved lately.
Jones is really testing my loyalty after a very short tenure, but I'm not giving up on him yet.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2019 17:38:51 GMT
Still think we needed an older head Allardyce or Moyes would have sorted us out We have an older head in Hart. How much influence he has is anyone's guess.... or even the right influence
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Post by Absolution on Feb 16, 2019 17:40:14 GMT
They'd started to chuck more crosses in. Like I said, Shawcross or Ince in there for the corner? You'd have Ince, that's fair enough. I just disagree. It went wrong, so people suddenly think Jones is an idiot. The decision seemed reasonable to me. I don't think it's as simple as Ince or Shawcross. The substitution was wrong for a few reasons. Firstly we'd dealt with those kind of balls well all game, I didn't think there was a need to throw another defender on and risk confusing the players that up to now had done the job well. It has the risk of causing confusion over who should be picking up who and that seems to be part of what happened as we left a free header. Then there's the psychological element. It tells the opposition that we're sitting in for the final moments and aren't even going to attempt to launch a breakaway or attack for a killer second. This allows them to put all their effort and players into attacking us free from any fear of us catching them out if they over commit. It also inevitably makes us sink even deeper. And finally, simply saying 'we need to keep the clean sheet, let's throw another defender on' sounds logical but isn't necessarily the best way to go. It needs to be tactically justified and the extra defender needs to fit into a properly communicated system change. I don't think this happened here, I think he just threw another big guy on and hoped they'd have the experience to sort out who's picking up who. Clearly they weren't able to sort it out. It's a bit like saying we need a goal let's throw another striker on. Throwing more strikers on will only work if it's strategically valid. If you just throw strikers on for the sake of it 99 times out of 100 it won't have any positive effect. It's the same with pointlessly throwing extra defenders on to protect a lead. The same thing happened at Reading. In the last couple of minutes, they were going to chuck everything at us with little regard for us hitting them on the break anyway. If anything, that's exactly why he made the substitution, because they'd started to just go for it. There was enough experience in there to have dealt with it. We didn't chuck a rookie defender on.
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Post by SamB_SCFC on Feb 16, 2019 17:49:42 GMT
I don't think it's as simple as Ince or Shawcross. The substitution was wrong for a few reasons. Firstly we'd dealt with those kind of balls well all game, I didn't think there was a need to throw another defender on and risk confusing the players that up to now had done the job well. It has the risk of causing confusion over who should be picking up who and that seems to be part of what happened as we left a free header. Then there's the psychological element. It tells the opposition that we're sitting in for the final moments and aren't even going to attempt to launch a breakaway or attack for a killer second. This allows them to put all their effort and players into attacking us free from any fear of us catching them out if they over commit. It also inevitably makes us sink even deeper. And finally, simply saying 'we need to keep the clean sheet, let's throw another defender on' sounds logical but isn't necessarily the best way to go. It needs to be tactically justified and the extra defender needs to fit into a properly communicated system change. I don't think this happened here, I think he just threw another big guy on and hoped they'd have the experience to sort out who's picking up who. Clearly they weren't able to sort it out. It's a bit like saying we need a goal let's throw another striker on. Throwing more strikers on will only work if it's strategically valid. If you just throw strikers on for the sake of it 99 times out of 100 it won't have any positive effect. It's the same with pointlessly throwing extra defenders on to protect a lead. The same thing happened at Reading. In the last couple of minutes, they were going to chuck everything at us with little regard for us hitting them on the break anyway. If anything, that's exactly why he made the substitution, because they'd started to just go for it. There was enough experience in there to have dealt with it. We didn't chuck a rookie defender on. Yeah I agree there should have been enough experience to deal with it. But for me I think we should have kept the balance the same and maybe done a like for like with Ince, someone like Berahino maybe who wouldn't send out such a defensive message and give us a bit more mobility if we did manage to clear it and launch a break. The problem is that Shawcross has been poor this season and poor for a couple of years. He's experienced and has been great, but right now he's a very poor player and his leadership and communication skills seem to be lacking. His confidence is shot and his head drops so quickly. He took the captaincy off Batth who was doing a much better job than Ryan's done for a long time and I don't think it's a complete coincidence that after that change, the disorganisation returned. A complete mess regardless and important points dropped. Jones will surely get the summer but even with the mitigating circumstances things simply HAVE to improve soon. This is dire and is relegation form plain and simple.
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Post by scfcno1fan on Feb 16, 2019 17:52:21 GMT
In the last couple of minutes, they were going to chuck everything at us with little regard for us hitting them on the break anyway. If anything, that's exactly why he made the substitution, because they'd started to just go for it. There was enough experience in there to have dealt with it. We didn't chuck a rookie defender on. Yeah I agree there should have been enough experience to deal with it. But for me I think we should have kept the balance the same and maybe done a like for like with Ince, someone like Berahino maybe who wouldn't send out such a defensive message and give us a bit more mobility if we did manage to clear it and launch a break. The problem is that Shawcross has been poor this season and poor for a couple of years. He's experienced and has been great, but right now he's a very poor player and his leadership and communication skills seem to be lacking. His confidence is shot and his head drops so quickly. He took the captaincy off Batth who was doing a much better job than Ryan's done for a long time and I don't think it's a complete coincidence that after that change, the disorganisation returned. A complete mess regardless and important points dropped. Jones will surely get the summer but even with the mitigating circumstances things simply HAVE to improve soon. This is dire and is relegation form plain and simple. This.
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Post by stokefan1972 on Feb 16, 2019 17:59:39 GMT
Thanks Nathan for the brilliant talk but you've made us worse and I'm sure season cards will be down by loads
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Post by Absolution on Feb 16, 2019 18:01:04 GMT
In the last couple of minutes, they were going to chuck everything at us with little regard for us hitting them on the break anyway. If anything, that's exactly why he made the substitution, because they'd started to just go for it. There was enough experience in there to have dealt with it. We didn't chuck a rookie defender on. Yeah I agree there should have been enough experience to deal with it. But for me I think we should have kept the balance the same and maybe done a like for like with Ince, someone like Berahino maybe who wouldn't send out such a defensive message and give us a bit more mobility if we did manage to clear it and launch a break. The problem is that Shawcross has been poor this season and poor for a couple of years. He's experienced and has been great, but right now he's a very poor player and his leadership and communication skills seem to be lacking. His confidence is shot and his head drops so quickly. He took the captaincy off Batth who was doing a much better job than Ryan's done for a long time and I don't think it's a complete coincidence that after that change, the disorganisation returned. A complete mess regardless and important points dropped. Jones will surely get the summer but even with the mitigating circumstances things simply HAVE to improve soon. This is dire and is relegation form plain and simple. Can't disagree with any of that, Sam. I can't exactly argue that it was a good substitution because it clearly failed. I just don't think it was as ridiculous as some were making out. Like I said, Ince or Shawcross to defend a corner, who ya gonna call? I get your points though.
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Post by pistol on Feb 16, 2019 18:09:07 GMT
Someone needs to ask him some seriously tough questions. For example why is there 24m worth of striker on the bench or not in the squad when we are struggling to score goals?
How come Tom Ince gets three games to be useless but Bojan gets 60 mins?
Why was Erik Pieters allowed to leave?
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Post by Gods on Feb 16, 2019 18:14:03 GMT
I'm no longer convinced he will last beyond the summer.
Lambert, Rowett, Jones, do we have a Plan D ?
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Post by songthrush01 on Feb 16, 2019 18:14:20 GMT
i thought we were getting a attacking manager hes worst than tony would ever be.
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Post by Gods on Feb 16, 2019 18:16:40 GMT
i thought we were getting a attacking manager hes worst than tony would ever be. 1 shot on target against the team marooned at the bottom of the table doesn't exactly fill you with confidence.
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Post by rorystowel on Feb 16, 2019 18:20:16 GMT
Ipswich are a top, top side. And things.
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Post by songthrush01 on Feb 16, 2019 18:20:38 GMT
i thought we were getting a attacking manager hes worst than tony would ever be. 1 shot on target against the team marooned at the bottom of the table doesn't exactly fill you with confidence. its just gutting to see how low we have gone. anyone for tony back?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2019 18:22:38 GMT
1 shot on target against the team marooned at the bottom of the table doesn't exactly fill you with confidence. its just gutting to see how low we have gone. anyone for tony back? Who is Tony Back?
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Post by wrighter on Feb 16, 2019 18:23:50 GMT
I still think during the summer he will get rid of a lot of this dead wood, and build his OWN team, to play the way HE want them to.
No way am i giving up on him
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Post by boskampsflaps on Feb 16, 2019 18:24:24 GMT
Get a grip lad.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2019 18:25:41 GMT
Thanks Nathan for the brilliant talk but you've made us worse and I'm sure season cards will be down by loads You don’t get a prize for starting the most related threads a day.
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Post by 19notbeaten72 on Feb 16, 2019 18:29:50 GMT
Thanks Nathan for the brilliant talk but you've made us worse and I'm sure season cards will be down by loads Have to agree we should have seen some progress by now but we have regressed even further i am prepared to give him more time but things do not look good. A more experienced manager is needed to sort this shower of shit as things could get a lot worse.
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Post by stokefan1972 on Feb 16, 2019 18:29:53 GMT
Get behind NJ he's planning for next season
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2019 18:31:17 GMT
Thanks Nathan for the brilliant talk but you've made us worse and I'm sure season cards will be down by loads Have to agree we should have seen some progress by now but we have regressed even further i am prepared to give him more time but things do not look good. A more experienced manager is needed to sort this shower of shit as things could get a lot worse. We don't need an experienced manager at all. We need the suits to get their arses into gear to shift a lot of the shit and help the manager bring in some fresh blood this summer. Young, hungry players that want to go somewhere and not a bunch of overhyped Championship players that lost their hunger and character years ago.
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Post by neddy on Feb 16, 2019 18:33:25 GMT
Unbeaten in two games lol...
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Post by emmbrook1956 on Feb 16, 2019 18:36:18 GMT
Living down in the South I am told by a Brighton supporter that Nathan will do us proud. I am also told that Luton’s loss is our gain. So I know we have won only one game since Nathan joined us. Stop having a go! He has inherited a team so lacking in confidence it is untrue.
Support the club, support the team and all remember we have to show great respect to Gordon and his family on Monday 4th March
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Post by 19notbeaten72 on Feb 16, 2019 18:36:36 GMT
Have to agree we should have seen some progress by now but we have regressed even further i am prepared to give him more time but things do not look good. A more experienced manager is needed to sort this shower of shit as things could get a lot worse. We don't need an experienced manager at all. We need the suits to get their arses into gear to shift a lot of the shit and help the manager bring in some fresh blood this summer. Young, hungry players that want to go somewhere and not a bunch of overhyped Championship players that lost their hunger and character years ago. I will have to disagree with you on that one Jones is already looking very worried with every interview he does. He is clearly not enjoying it & very much looking like somebody who is completely lost & out of his depth.
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Post by thisfootballclub on Feb 16, 2019 18:37:44 GMT
i thought we were getting a attacking manager hes worst than tony would ever be. 1 shot on target against the team marooned at the bottom of the table doesn't exactly fill you with confidence. Concerning indeed, having just played two of the weaker teams in the division with (after today) -14 and -31 goal differences!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2019 18:37:56 GMT
We don't need an experienced manager at all. We need the suits to get their arses into gear to shift a lot of the shit and help the manager bring in some fresh blood this summer. Young, hungry players that want to go somewhere and not a bunch of overhyped Championship players that lost their hunger and character years ago. I will have to disagree with you on that one Jones is already looking very worried with every interview he does. He is clearly not enjoying it & very much looking like somebody who is completely lost & out of his depth. He isn't looking lost or worried at all. He's looking as pissed off as the rest of us as to why players on 20-40k a week can't do the basics come Saturday afternoon.
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Feb 16, 2019 18:39:40 GMT
I will have to disagree with you on that one Jones is already looking very worried with every interview he does. He is clearly not enjoying it & very much looking like somebody who is completely lost & out of his depth. He isn't looking lost or worried at all. He's looking as pissed off as the rest of us as to why players on 20-40k a week can't do the basics come Saturday afternoon. Agreed, he looks exhausted and a bit drained to me though
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Post by Edward Tattsyrup on Feb 16, 2019 18:47:58 GMT
Let's not kid ourselves, the guy is trying to polish a turd.we've got a long road ahead and Scholes and fartwright need to do their bit by shifting 80% of the current squad in the summer.
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Post by future100 on Feb 16, 2019 18:54:28 GMT
Let's not kid ourselves, the guy is trying to polish a turd.we've got a long road ahead and Scholes and fartwright need to do their bit by shifting 80% of the current squad in the summer. It's ok shifting people out but look at the quality of who he is replacing them with, it's all so uninspiring.
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Post by slother on Feb 16, 2019 19:05:27 GMT
Someone please explain to me why Nathan Jones should be getting a tune out of this shower when Hughes, Lambert and Rowett couldn't. And none of them wanted to use Bojan either, so maybe some of you need to get over it. Give him 3 windows, there's really no better option, unless Mr Pochettino develops a taste for oatcakes.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Feb 16, 2019 19:19:50 GMT
Today wasn't the greatest performance by a long way but this game was never going to be a landslide. Like with us last season Gallagher has made them competitive. They drew 1-1 with Derby last week and gave Norwich a good game before tailing off. Very frustrating but I'd say Jones is 5 percent responsible for the current mess. He's been left a really poor squad and been given minimum help in the January window. It's going to take a long time for NJ to get us right and we wont start improving till he gets 5-10 new players in (wishful thinking)that he wants. Our midfield is woeful no manager could do much with them. This mess is down to Hughes Rowett Scholes and Cartwright predominantly.
Right now I think we need
LB 3 x CM's (1 x defensive CM. a playmaker, 1 box to boxer) a pacey striker to play alongside Vokes who needs time
The only players I'd be disappointed to lose are
Edwards Baur Batth Indi Etebo Vokes
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