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Post by geoff321 on Feb 14, 2019 21:11:50 GMT
NJ has taken Luton up from the 4th tier of English football and has now landed the Stoke job,a PL club now in the Championship, who have many good players now and wealthy owners who can fund the buying of even more players. Compare that to John Askey who has taken Macclesfield up from the 5th tier of English football, with one of the lowest budgets, and has landed the managers job at the Vale who are basically skint. I support Nathan Jones, but some of the comments on here about about how difficult a job he has are way off the mark, look no further than John Askey to see what a really difficult job looks like. The owners will expect Nathan to take us up next season and I think that's a reasonable target to give to him, in my opinion. Yeah despite my deep reservations about the quality of this squad which I've had since day 1, I totally refute that this is the best we could possibly hope for. That all concerned (including Jones) shouldn't be doing a fair bit better. That a minute level of improvement of Wigan should now form some sort of long walk to respectability. It's an absurd view, unless you buy into the view that we are actually as basket case as Sunderland and others. Agree with that momo, low expectation amongst fans is probably more destructive than high expectation, a club with Stoke's resources should not be in the bottom half of the Championship.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2019 21:19:07 GMT
Yeah despite my deep reservations about the quality of this squad which I've had since day 1, I totally refute that this is the best we could possibly hope for. That all concerned (including Jones) shouldn't be doing a fair bit better. That a minute level of improvement of Wigan should now form some sort of long walk to respectability. It's an absurd view, unless you buy into the view that we are actually as basket case as Sunderland and others. Agree with that momo, low expectation amongst fans is probably more destructive than high expectation, a club with Stoke's resources should not be in the bottom half of the Championship. We shouldn't be in the bottom half of the Championship? Really?
Wow.
I find such insight absolutely staggering.
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Post by FullerMagic on Feb 14, 2019 21:21:24 GMT
Yeah despite my deep reservations about the quality of this squad which I've had since day 1, I totally refute that this is the best we could possibly hope for. That all concerned (including Jones) shouldn't be doing a fair bit better. That a minute level of improvement of Wigan should now form some sort of long walk to respectability. It's an absurd view, unless you buy into the view that we are actually as basket case as Sunderland and others. Agree with that momo, low expectation amongst fans is probably more destructive than high expectation, a club with Stoke's resources should not be in the bottom half of the Championship. Which players in the squad do you personally see as being potentially part of a successful team next season, Geoff?
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Post by geoff321 on Feb 14, 2019 21:33:59 GMT
Agree with that momo, low expectation amongst fans is probably more destructive than high expectation, a club with Stoke's resources should not be in the bottom half of the Championship. Which players in the squad do you personally see as being potentially part of a successful team next season, Geoff? Firstly FM I don't think Stoke have any bad players on their books, but a few who have currently lost their form.
For me the following players should be good enough to play in a team that could take us back up:
Butland, Martins Indi, Allen, Etebo, Vokes, Batth, Edwards, Ince, would be in the team if I was manager.
Even the 11 that played at Wigan should be capable of a top 6 position in this league.
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Post by geoff321 on Feb 14, 2019 21:39:06 GMT
Agree with that momo, low expectation amongst fans is probably more destructive than high expectation, a club with Stoke's resources should not be in the bottom half of the Championship. We shouldn't be in the bottom half of the Championship? Really?
Wow.
I find such insight absolutely staggering.
Then if you agree we should obviously be much higher, lets stop making excuses for losing/drawing games against teams who have spent a fraction of the money we have.
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Post by FullerMagic on Feb 14, 2019 21:39:39 GMT
Which players in the squad do you personally see as being potentially part of a successful team next season, Geoff? Firstly FM I don't think Stoke have any bad players on their books, but a few who have currently lost their form. For me the following players should be good enough to play in a team that could take us back up: Butland, Martins Indi, Allen, Etebo, Vokes, Batth, Edwards, Ince, would be in the team if I was manager. Even the 11 that played at Wigan should be capable of a top 6 position in this league.
I think that's a fair enough list, Geoff (although I'd say there was a very small chance Butland will be here, and probably zero chance Allen will) On paper it looks fine, but on grass it has consistently and almost without fail looked very average and left us questioning everything - to the point that there are big question marks over all those players (more so if Ince is asked to play in this new role) And after watching this lot play for 6 months, I still have no idea just how much untapped potential there really is, and how much is a mirage.
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Post by enuntio on Feb 14, 2019 21:55:35 GMT
His nightmare is nothing compared to ours. It ain't the manager(s), it ain't the boards, and it certainly ain't the fans who are at fault.
It's the non existant team. They have no pride and no work ethic. Alls they do have is MONEY
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Feb 14, 2019 21:58:35 GMT
His nightmare is nothing compared to ours. It ain't the manager(s), it ain't the boards, and it certainly ain't the fans who are at fault. It's the non existant team. They have no pride and no work ethic. Alls they do have is MONEY I see where you are going but it most certainly is the board and more specifically the transfer team. The buck has to stop with them or else what is the point of having them. Accountability.
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Post by enuntio on Feb 14, 2019 22:09:32 GMT
His nightmare is nothing compared to ours. It ain't the manager(s), it ain't the boards, and it certainly ain't the fans who are at fault. It's the non existant team. They have no pride and no work ethic. Alls they do have is MONEY I see where you are going but it most certainly is the board and more specifically the transfer team. The buck has to stop with them or else what is the point of having them. Accountability. err, not at all. They all want out. Get rid. Start again. Either players play or they get dropped. Soon it will turn full circle. Earn your money biatches, and give us something to sing about...
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Post by geoff321 on Feb 14, 2019 22:11:12 GMT
His nightmare is nothing compared to ours. It ain't the manager(s), it ain't the boards, and it certainly ain't the fans who are at fault. It's the non existant team. They have no pride and no work ethic. Alls they do have is MONEY I see where you are going but it most certainly is the board and more specifically the transfer team. The buck has to stop with them or else what is the point of having them. Accountability. I think if it wasn't for the owners we could easily be in league 1, it's their wealth that put us in the PL and helped keep us there for ten years.
The blame in the main is on the field not off it, hopefully Nathan Jones supported by the owners will steer us back to the PL.
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Post by Pugsley on Feb 14, 2019 22:16:38 GMT
I see where you are going but it most certainly is the board and more specifically the transfer team. The buck has to stop with them or else what is the point of having them. Accountability. I think if it wasn't for the owners we could easily be in league 1, it's their wealth that put us in the PL and helped keep us there for ten years.
The blame in the main is on the field not off it, hopefully Nathan Jones supported by the owners will steer us back to the PL.
It's precisely because of the owners we are where we are. They've wasted 10 years of PL football by being lazy, half arsed and not savvy enough to make the correct decisions at the right time. Just throwing money at it isn't the always the answer.
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Post by 19notbeaten72 on Feb 14, 2019 22:28:06 GMT
I think if it wasn't for the owners we could easily be in league 1, it's their wealth that put us in the PL and helped keep us there for ten years. The blame in the main is on the field not off it, hopefully Nathan Jones supported by the owners will steer us back to the PL.
It's precisely because of the owners we are where we are. They've wasted 10 years of PL football by being lazy, half arsed and not savvy enough to make the correct decisions at the right time. Just throwing money at it isn't the always the answer. Very true pugsley mismanagement at its worst 10 years down the pan because of lazy half arsed owners who watched us sink without a trace. And it could get worse the way things are going.
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Post by geoff321 on Feb 14, 2019 22:33:41 GMT
I think if it wasn't for the owners we could easily be in league 1, it's their wealth that put us in the PL and helped keep us there for ten years.
The blame in the main is on the field not off it, hopefully Nathan Jones supported by the owners will steer us back to the PL.
It's precisely because of the owners we are where we are. They've wasted 10 years of PL football by being lazy, half arsed and not savvy enough to make the correct decisions at the right time. Just throwing money at it isn't the always the answer. Without the Coates family we almost certainly would never have got to the PL in the first place.
Of course there have been mistakes, however when we get back into the top league the same people will be largely responsible for achieving that as well.
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Post by geoff321 on Feb 14, 2019 22:35:41 GMT
It's precisely because of the owners we are where we are. They've wasted 10 years of PL football by being lazy, half arsed and not savvy enough to make the correct decisions at the right time. Just throwing money at it isn't the always the answer. Very true pugsley mismanagement at its worst 10 years down the pan because of lazy half arsed owners who watched us sink without a trace. And it could get worse the way things are going. Lazy half arsed owners, do you seriously think our owners are that?
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Post by Pugsley on Feb 14, 2019 23:14:09 GMT
Very true pugsley mismanagement at its worst 10 years down the pan because of lazy half arsed owners who watched us sink without a trace. And it could get worse the way things are going. Lazy half arsed owners, do you seriously think our owners are that? Explain the mistakes made then. I think they have sat back on their laurels and expected things would be OK as long as they were chucking a few quid at it. They haven't worked hard enough and haven't demanded enough from people they employ.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Feb 14, 2019 23:17:42 GMT
Lazy half arsed owners, do you seriously think our owners are that? Explain the mistakes made then. I think they have sat back on their laurels and expected things would be OK as long as they were chucking a few quid at it. They haven't worked hard enough and haven't demanded enough from people they employ. Correct. They are tremendous owners in many, many ways but their continued allegiance to 'the process', their inability to admit that they're wrong could eventually lead to a souring of their legacy. Daft really.
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Post by geoff321 on Feb 14, 2019 23:37:42 GMT
Lazy half arsed owners, do you seriously think our owners are that? Explain the mistakes made then. I think they have sat back on their laurels and expected things would be OK as long as they were chucking a few quid at it. They haven't worked hard enough and haven't demanded enough from people they employ. The club appears to me to be run reasonably well off the field and is financially stable, therefore the CEO will be seen to be doing what is asked of him by the owners.
It's results on the pitch that have declined and have caused relegation and unrest amongst the fans.
The owners will without doubt have looked at all aspects of senior staff performance and judged that results on the pitch are in the main the responsiblity of the manager and his coaches.
The mistakes in the transfer market i.e. actual players signed, will also have been judged to be errors made by the managers of the day and not Cartwright or Scholes, otherwise why would the owners have sacked just the managers?
Where I think the owners have made mistakes is in the timing of the sacking of Hughes and in his replacement, that in my view was a serious error of judgement and a big factor in our relegation.
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Post by s8to on Feb 14, 2019 23:48:01 GMT
It's precisely because of the owners we are where we are. They've wasted 10 years of PL football by being lazy, half arsed and not savvy enough to make the correct decisions at the right time. Just throwing money at it isn't the always the answer. Without the Coates family we almost certainly would never have got to the PL in the first place. Of course there have been mistakes, however when we get back into the top league the same people will be largely responsible for achieving that as well.
If... 😜
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2019 2:25:55 GMT
Which players in the squad do you personally see as being potentially part of a successful team next season, Geoff? Firstly FM I don't think Stoke have any bad players on their books, but a few who have currently lost their form.
For me the following players should be good enough to play in a team that could take us back up:
Butland, Martins Indi, Allen, Etebo, Vokes, Batth, Edwards, Ince, would be in the team if I was manager.
Even the 11 that played at Wigan should be capable of a top 6 position in this league.
Those 8 are already in a team that has proven not good enough to take us back up. It's the laidback looking at the names thinking they are too good not to win promotion that has been our undoing this season.
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Post by heworksardtho on Feb 15, 2019 7:39:58 GMT
His job is like trying to turn an oil tanker with a canoe paddle , he will sort this shower out just give the bloke time
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Post by citynickscfc on Feb 15, 2019 14:18:27 GMT
Agree with that momo, low expectation amongst fans is probably more destructive than high expectation, a club with Stoke's resources should not be in the bottom half of the Championship. We shouldn't be in the bottom half of the Championship? Really? Wow. I find such insight absolutely staggering.
How is that staggering? We are one of the most financially backed clubs in the world, but no one realises that because of how shit we are
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2019 14:23:34 GMT
Explain the mistakes made then. I think they have sat back on their laurels and expected things would be OK as long as they were chucking a few quid at it. They haven't worked hard enough and haven't demanded enough from people they employ. Correct. They are tremendous owners in many, many ways but their continued allegiance to 'the process', their inability to admit that they're wrong could eventually lead to a souring of their legacy. Daft really. Like it or not but I don't think Stoke, under Coates, would ever have reached the Prem without Pulis. We'd have spent 10 years pissing about with average managers that matched his staggeringly dull criteria. Decisions by Coates and management pre-Pulis were fucking gash and the decisions by Coates and management post-Pulis have been equally as piss poor.
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Post by nottsover60 on Feb 15, 2019 14:49:50 GMT
The Pulis who was given ten games to win his first game. Give Coates credit for sticking by him for that long. A lot on here would have got rid of him after six.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Feb 15, 2019 15:11:56 GMT
The Pulis who was given ten games to win his first game. Give Coates credit for sticking by him for that long. A lot on here would have got rid of him after six. I think most level headed people are generally positive about the Coates. Post all that golden shares malarkey during the "Icelandic Age" they have proven themselves to be generous owners with some ambition and most importantly they are Stoke fans too. But they have made mistakes and they are making more and more of them now. But their biggest single mistake is persevering with a technical director and CEO who have presided over 4 years of failure. At some point they must stop this madness of changing managers and sanctioning poor signings and get to the root cause. The point we are at right now is not directly all Hughes's, Lambert's, Rowett's or NJ's fault. It is mostly the fault of the people above them. Now, assuming Peter Coates is not going to sack himself or any of his family then I suggest they start with Carto and then Scholes or vice versa, I don't really care. But to keep repeating the same mistake time and again eventually becomes ridiculous.
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Post by cousindupree on Feb 15, 2019 15:15:44 GMT
The decision to appoint an inexperienced manager in Jones was either a brave decision or a decision based on who was available and wanted the job and the likes of Jokanovic Moyes etc weren't interested. It's a huge job for Jones and we really can't give him forever to get things right no matter how bad things are. December decision should be made and if Jones isn't getting results then we need to change. Success in League 2 and 1 doesn't guarantee success in the Championship. The big question which is hard to answer is the ambition of the board and Bet 365. Nobody can have any complaints about the investment and no doubt it will be continued to be made while the parachute payments are being made. When they go and we are still in this division are we then back to self-sufficiency? If so We will have to recruit at the cheap end of the market and it could be years before we get back to the Prem. Maybe Coates family are happy with us as a champ side, after all it's unlikely we will better the few years of Wembley, Europe and top ten finishes.
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Post by Gods on Feb 15, 2019 23:25:07 GMT
The decision to appoint an inexperienced manager in Jones was either a brave decision or a decision based on who was available and wanted the job and the likes of Jokanovic Moyes etc weren't interested. It's a huge job for Jones and we really can't give him forever to get things right no matter how bad things are. December decision should be made and if Jones isn't getting results then we need to change. Success in League 2 and 1 doesn't guarantee success in the Championship. The big question which is hard to answer is the ambition of the board and Bet 365. Nobody can have any complaints about the investment and no doubt it will be continued to be made while the parachute payments are being made. When they go and we are still in this division are we then back to self-sufficiency? If so We will have to recruit at the cheap end of the market and it could be years before we get back to the Prem. Maybe Coates family are happy with us as a champ side, after all it's unlikely we will better the few years of Wembley, Europe and top ten finishes. The parachute payments are the ticking time bomb alright, 45% next season, 20% the season after and then they are gone. We'll be left living with about £15m per year of season ticket sales and media rights and that's it. It would barely cover 15% of our current out-goings. We must be running up some pretty terrifying debts as it is and that situation will only get worse. In the end we will have to cut our cloth accordingly. Since we've failed to bounce back up then, try as I might, I can't see a happy ending to all this, only a return to the wilderness years.
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Post by sharonbeech21 on Feb 16, 2019 0:19:36 GMT
I think Nathan given time will turn things around. He inherited a squad with poor signings. We need to have a clearout in the summer and build for next season then i think he will be fine. I much prefer Nathan to Gary Rowett
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Post by robwahlmann on Feb 16, 2019 9:16:04 GMT
I really can't understand the critisism towards the owners and other people running the club. All our managers have been given a decent amount of money (more than most for a club of our size I'd say) to strengthen sides that already have had several quality players. So for me it's about the manager and the job he does, no excuses about board and owners for me please!
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samuel32
Youth Player
Jack Clarke's Shorts
Posts: 361
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Post by samuel32 on Feb 16, 2019 9:19:53 GMT
I like the cut of his jib. But his planning for next season chat worries me. We really need to focus on this one otherwise we’ll get relegated
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Post by Godo on Feb 16, 2019 9:49:47 GMT
The decision to appoint an inexperienced manager in Jones was either a brave decision or a decision based on who was available and wanted the job and the likes of Jokanovic Moyes etc weren't interested. It's a huge job for Jones and we really can't give him forever to get things right no matter how bad things are. December decision should be made and if Jones isn't getting results then we need to change. Success in League 2 and 1 doesn't guarantee success in the Championship. The big question which is hard to answer is the ambition of the board and Bet 365. Nobody can have any complaints about the investment and no doubt it will be continued to be made while the parachute payments are being made. When they go and we are still in this division are we then back to self-sufficiency? If so We will have to recruit at the cheap end of the market and it could be years before we get back to the Prem. Maybe Coates family are happy with us as a champ side, after all it's unlikely we will better the few years of Wembley, Europe and top ten finishes. "We can't give him forever". Fuck me he's been here 5 mins. He has given virtually all of the squad an opportunity to prove whether they are part of the future or not. He has brought in 2 solid pros of the right character as pit props down the spine of the team and just delivered the 2 best defensive performances back to back that we have managed in about 2 years. He's sorting out this horribly bloated and useless squad and yet you ridiculous knicker wetters bleat about serial failures like "Pieters ", "Moyes", "Diouf" as if they are the answer to anything and "ambition". What the sort of "ambition" that paid inflated fees for twats like Imbula, N'Diaye, Wimmer and brought in superstars like Jese on loan? NJ has a clear vision, he knows the type of player he needs in each position and the sort of character he requires in the squad. We are like an embarrassing bunch of school girls on here. There is no quick fix and that "fix" was never going to arrive using the majority of the players in our squad or employing some has been from the managerial merry go round. If NJ is supported properly by the board and the fans he'll deliver.
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