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Post by sidstoke on Apr 5, 2019 9:12:02 GMT
The way I see it he tries to raise awareness but fucks it up by being unintentionally flash and sends out mixed messages , hence why we all read it differently. Can you imagine the Montenegrins reading that? They would be boiling and it won’t calm their emotions only fuel them Well however the Montenegrins feel about what he said, or whatever Arsenal fans feel about what he said, or whatever Anyone feels about what he said, responding racial abuse will be abhorrent. The emotions might be boiled but does that justify the bigotry they have had to endure? There will be a groundswell of opinion suggesting he shouldn't respond because it winds them up but who is in the wrong here? He's entitled to respond. He is entitled to response and while the world is watching it’s the ideal time and he is an ideal person to raise awareness and he has enough and I can understand that but what does Rose do, says he spends more on a night out in London, what does Raheem Sterling do? Arranged for 550 kids go FA cup semis. Big difference
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Apr 5, 2019 9:12:07 GMT
So the fact he spends a lot on a night out outweighs the issues he's angry about? Really? Are we moving towards the notion someone should accept the abuse because they are wealthy? The racist issues are a big problem, but he doesn’t come across well here, and as a result, I have no sympathy for him. He could’ve just said the fine is a joke, instead he shows what a classless cunt he really is. So again, just to be clear, a throwaway silly comment like that is more offensive to you than the racism issues?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Apr 5, 2019 9:14:02 GMT
Well however the Montenegrins feel about what he said, or whatever Arsenal fans feel about what he said, or whatever Anyone feels about what he said, responding racial abuse will be abhorrent. The emotions might be boiled but does that justify the bigotry they have had to endure? There will be a groundswell of opinion suggesting he shouldn't respond because it winds them up but who is in the wrong here? He's entitled to respond. He is entitled to response and while the world is watching it’s the ideal time and he is an ideal person to raise awareness and he has enough and I can understand that but what does Rose do, says he spends more on a night out in London, what does Raheem Sterling do? Arranged for 550 kids go FA cup semis. Big difference Are we saying that Raheem Sterling never has a night out and Danny Rose doesn't do anything for charity?
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Post by crowey on Apr 5, 2019 9:19:03 GMT
.... what does Danny Rose do for charity?
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Post by Bojan Mackey on Apr 5, 2019 9:27:06 GMT
Jesus the fucking fish are frisky today.
I can’t stand Danny Rose but the point he’s making is that in the modern era of football, where lavish excess is the norm, the fines for this sort of behaviour are a joke.
Footballs governing bodies need to get with the times, even the average footballers that we posses earn enough money to laugh in the face of these sorts of fines, the punishments should be more in line with the times.
A £25,000 fine in the 80’s? Acceptable, in 2019, where Tom Ince was bought for £12 million? It should be £2.5 million, at least.
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Post by stiggerstackle on Apr 5, 2019 9:32:06 GMT
Yeah. Not what I said though is it? Filled in a few blanks of your own there haven’t you? More money is more important than principles apparently. That was my point. Thanks for the fuck off though. What on earth are you fucking talking about then? Come on. Make it exactly fucking clear. What would you have him do? Fuck me. I've said it 3 times, not sure how to make it much clearer. Danny Rose is a multi-millionaire who is in an absolutely prime position to make a real stand that people will take notice of. He never has to work again - he (unlike most of us here) is able to back up his principles in a way few others can. He can actually draw a line in the sand that people will take notice of and debate openly. Yes, he has suffered abhorrent abuse - but if he's so sick of it, why not do something about it instead of waiting for another 6 years? If I hated my job, I'd change it, not wait 6 years. If i hated my wife, I'd divorce her, not wait 6 years. Are you getting my point? I just wish that somebody in football would have the courage of their convictions and make a principled stand. Danny Rose makes valid, valid points in that piece but undoes them all by essentially having a moan about hating the profession he is in, but not enough to say no to a few million quid more. If there are any people of colour reading this and they are offended or find my remarks in any way racist, please, please let me know and I will apologise unreservedly because that is not my intention. If however, you are a white bloke foaming at the gash to be offended on behalf of others who in themselves aren't offended, then fuck you, you patronising bastards, you are part of the problem. My issues with Danny Rose are nothing at all to do with race, they are to do with the fact that he's a shithouse of a human being.
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Post by stiggerstackle on Apr 5, 2019 9:33:58 GMT
Just read the article, quite eye-opening as to what’s wrong with some of today’s footballers. He ‘can’t wait to see the back of football’ but will give it another ‘5 or 6 years’. Fuck me sideways. Already a multi millionaire but puts another few million quid ahead of his principles. Malcolm X would be so, so proud. Absolutely. He should quit now and let the racists win. My point isn't about racism. It's about principles and squandering an opportunity to use them to drive meaningful change.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Apr 5, 2019 9:34:46 GMT
.... what does Danny Rose do for charity? We don't know either way do we?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Apr 5, 2019 9:35:41 GMT
Absolutely. He should quit now and let the racists win. My point isn't about racism. It's about principles and squandering an opportunity to use them to drive meaningful change. But those principles relate to taking a stand against racism don't they? How would walking away help in that fight in this instance? And the idea that white people can't or shouldn't be bothered about racism is actually part of the problem.
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on Apr 5, 2019 9:37:15 GMT
The whole point is about racism not Danny 'substitute him before he cries' Rose!
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Post by stiggerstackle on Apr 5, 2019 9:38:58 GMT
My point isn't about racism. It's about principles and squandering an opportunity to use them to drive meaningful change. But those principles relate to taking a stand against racism don't they? How would walking away help in that fight in this instance? Wouldn't it help? Not walking away has got the agenda absolutely nowhere - if a high-profile player took an actual principled stand wouldn't that drive the debate to the next level? Or do we keep doing what we're doing and get nowhere? In any social change there has to be a watershed moment - couldn't this be that? People would surely sit up and take notice?
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Post by stiggerstackle on Apr 5, 2019 9:42:43 GMT
My point isn't about racism. It's about principles and squandering an opportunity to use them to drive meaningful change. But those principles relate to taking a stand against racism don't they? How would walking away help in that fight in this instance? And the idea that white people can't or shouldn't be bothered about racism is actually part of the problem. I'm not saying for a second that white people shouldn't be bothered about racism - of course we should. But we aren't allowed to have a debate about anything remotely sensitive on this board or wider society without those who just love to get offended jumping down your throat and calling you a racist - as happened to me about 5 posts in. Debate is dying in this country because we aren't allowed to hold differing views or express them without being labelled as something we aren't by the enthusiastically offended.
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Post by cokecystfit on Apr 5, 2019 9:44:30 GMT
The quote was "when *countries* are getting fined less than I spend on a night out".
He's not trying to make anyone in particular feel inadequate about their earnings, he's just pointing out that the fine isn't a deterrent.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Apr 5, 2019 9:49:19 GMT
But those principles relate to taking a stand against racism don't they? How would walking away help in that fight in this instance? Wouldn't it help? Not walking away has got the agenda absolutely nowhere - if a high-profile player took an actual principled stand wouldn't that drive the debate to the next level? Or do we keep doing what we're doing and get nowhere? In any social change there has to be a watershed moment - couldn't this be that? People would surely sit up and take notice? I absolutely agree there has to be a watershed moment. Black players celebrating in the faces of racist morons or just flat out walking off the pitch or forcing an abandonment of games is A-OK with me. I just don't see how the racists actively driving a man out of his livelihood is achieving anything other than what they want though? We all know Rose can be an irksome presence on a football field but the idea he doesn't deserve sympathy because he isn't prepared to quit the game over racism just strikes me as a bit weird.
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Post by podolipotter on Apr 5, 2019 9:50:15 GMT
Given the amount of abusive and intolerant crap above on this topic, we should all remember that we are all human beings, each different in our way and manner (and I am not talking about colour here). Envy of success is the label of socialism when humanitarianism really should come first. Danny Rose is free to spend his life just as any Stoke supporter is - the world does not owe you a living, you get out there and earn it. I don't pretend to like Danny Rose, I don't know him well enough to judge him, but I certainly do not hate him, or any other human being. One day your heart will stop and so will his, as will mine. Enjoy life, don't poison it with hate.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2019 9:54:49 GMT
The racist issues are a big problem, but he doesn’t come across well here, and as a result, I have no sympathy for him. He could’ve just said the fine is a joke, instead he shows what a classless cunt he really is. So again, just to be clear, a throwaway silly comment like that is more offensive to you than the racism issues? A throwaway silly comment that will always be remembered, along with the likes of Ashley Cole nearly being sick after only being offered 50k a week. I wonder how long it takes the average Tottenham fan to earn the amount he disposes of in one night, he belittles it and as a result it’s a big fuck you to those that support him every week, so I’m my mind it’s not a throwaway comment, it’s a massive insult. Macedonia deserve a far greater punishment than the fine, but there are ways of expressing your opinion in the media without causing offence to the people that support you..
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Apr 5, 2019 9:55:54 GMT
.... what does Danny Rose do for charity? Whether he does nothing or whether he does loads has got nothing to do with the debate has it?
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Post by crowey on Apr 5, 2019 9:59:11 GMT
.... what does Danny Rose do for charity? Whether he does nothing or whether he does loads has got nothing to do with the debate has it? ..... true
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Apr 5, 2019 10:01:01 GMT
Absolutely. He should quit now and let the racists win. My point isn't about racism. It's about principles and squandering an opportunity to use them to drive meaningful change. However the point is made in the context of racism. Yes top level footballers are well paid - but unlike royalty they are not born into it. If they didn't work at it they wouldn't be where they are and they have a fundamental right to continue to enjoy that profession and not have it ruined by bigotted, racist neanderthals. Not everyone who is racially abused (or in any other way for that matter) wishes to politicise the issue by becoming the next Mandela or forming another branch of the Black Panthers. And quite frankly they shouldn't have to.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Apr 5, 2019 10:05:34 GMT
So again, just to be clear, a throwaway silly comment like that is more offensive to you than the racism issues? A throwaway silly comment that will always be remembered, along with the likes of Ashley Cole nearly being sick after only being offered 50k a week. I wonder how long it takes the average Tottenham fan to earn the amount he disposes of in one night, he belittles it and as a result it’s a big fuck you to those that support him every week, so I’m my mind it’s not a throwaway comment, it’s a massive insult. Macedonia deserve a far greater punishment than the fine, but there are ways of expressing your opinion in the media without causing offence to the people that support you.. It was a facetious, hyperbolic statement designed to emphasise how paltry the fine was, no more, no less.
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Post by mattador78 on Apr 5, 2019 10:31:44 GMT
Jesus the fucking fish are frisky today. I can’t stand Danny Rose but the point he’s making is that in the modern era of football, where lavish excess is the norm, the fines for this sort of behaviour are a joke. Footballs governing bodies need to get with the times, even the average footballers that we posses earn enough money to laugh in the face of these sorts of fines, the punishments should be more in line with the times. A £25,000 fine in the 80’s? Acceptable, in 2019, where Tom Ince was bought for £12 million? It should be £2.5 million, at least. Great point but minus a perverse sexual comment I can’t take you seriously 😘
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Post by dastokie on Apr 5, 2019 10:52:05 GMT
There should be no place for racism in any walk of life.
FIFA should send out large fines and elimination from competitions.
At least they have chosen Qatar for the world Cup a country with no diverse opinion of religion, racism and sexism.
There are some countries that are miles behind the times.
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Post by Gary Hackett on Apr 5, 2019 10:56:26 GMT
The racist issues are a big problem, but he doesn’t come across well here, and as a result, I have no sympathy for him. He could’ve just said the fine is a joke, instead he shows what a classless cunt he really is. So again, just to be clear, a throwaway silly comment like that is more offensive to you than the racism issues? 2 seperate issues: A) he shouldn't have to tolerate racism B) he's a cunt regardless judging by that comment
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Post by spitthedog on Apr 5, 2019 11:31:47 GMT
It's interesting how different people interpret his comments differently.
I did not interpret his comment about how much he spends in a night in London as arrogant at all. It's a fact that he can spend that kind of money if he wants to and he is entitled to if he wants surely.
It's not exactly a secret that Premiership players earn big money so why are people making judgements about what he spends his money on or even surprised? There are people who work in the City who can spend that kind of money too, it's a fact.
He is merely making a point. I thought it was a very effective way of making the point.
What is happening is unacceptable and those who manage the game should be addressing it properly and effectively and they are not.
It's his right to express how he feels about it, seeing as he is the target of this abuse which simply should not be happening.
Whatever you think of him as a player is a completely separate point and its shouldn't be that difficult to appreciate that this is irrelevant.
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Post by nott1 on Apr 5, 2019 11:39:33 GMT
Seems like a nice boy to me.
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Post by cheadlestokie on Apr 5, 2019 11:40:37 GMT
There are of course many black footballers and they all deserve our support from this horrible attitude of what surely is only a minority of people but all too prominent once more these days it seems. The trouble is that we have the likes of Barnes and Sterling who say something with a view to dealing one way or another with this vile abuse and can be supported in there stance. We then have Rose.I am not saying for one minute he should be racially abused but when he opens his mouth it is always about him and him alone. He is a cheating player and that has been known for years, and whatever his skin colour I simply cannot do with the man or at least the perception that I have of him from the football field.
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Post by wakefieldstokie on Apr 5, 2019 11:45:49 GMT
My point isn't about racism. It's about principles and squandering an opportunity to use them to drive meaningful change. However the point is made in the context of racism. Yes top level footballers are well paid - but unlike royalty they are not born into it. If they didn't work at it they wouldn't be where they are and they have a fundamental right to continue to enjoy that profession and not have it ruined by bigotted, racist neanderthals. Not everyone who is racially abused (or in any other way for that matter) wishes to politicise the issue by becoming the next Mandela or forming another branch of the Black Panthers. And quite frankly they shouldn't have to. ^THIS^ Whether he has millions, whether he's likeable or not, whatever, its irrelevant. He shouldnt have to put up with it, its horrendous. Stamp Racism out.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Apr 5, 2019 11:46:09 GMT
So again, just to be clear, a throwaway silly comment like that is more offensive to you than the racism issues? 2 seperate issues: A) he shouldn't have to tolerate racism B) he's a cunt regardless judging by that comment I genuinely don't think he was trying to be flash with the statement, I took it as hyperbole used for effect to emphasise how inadequate the fine was.
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Apr 5, 2019 11:54:46 GMT
Danny Rose was horrifically abused in shameful scenes in Serbia in 2012 as a 21 year old. He's still being abused 7 years later and I daresay will be abused until he retires. I really don't see how he acts on the pitch, or whatever throwaway comparison he uses to highlight the complete inappropriateness of the fine can overtake the bigger issue he is referring to.
All these people saying, "oh walk away then" are missing the point raised by Barnes et al. this is not a football problem, it is a societal problem. Danny Rose walking away from Football won't stop the possibility of him being racially abused in wider society.
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Post by PotterLog on Apr 5, 2019 12:33:01 GMT
What on earth are you fucking talking about then? Come on. Make it exactly fucking clear. What would you have him do? Fuck me. I've said it 3 times, not sure how to make it much clearer. Danny Rose is a multi-millionaire who is in an absolutely prime position to make a real stand that people will take notice of. He never has to work again - he (unlike most of us here) is able to back up his principles in a way few others can. He can actually draw a line in the sand that people will take notice of and debate openly. Yes, he has suffered abhorrent abuse - but if he's so sick of it, why not do something about it instead of waiting for another 6 years? If I hated my job, I'd change it, not wait 6 years. If i hated my wife, I'd divorce her, not wait 6 years. Are you getting my point? I just wish that somebody in football would have the courage of their convictions and make a principled stand. Danny Rose makes valid, valid points in that piece but undoes them all by essentially having a moan about hating the profession he is in, but not enough to say no to a few million quid more. If there are any people of colour reading this and they are offended or find my remarks in any way racist, please, please let me know and I will apologise unreservedly because that is not my intention. If however, you are a white bloke foaming at the gash to be offended on behalf of others who in themselves aren't offended, then fuck you, you patronising bastards, you are part of the problem. My issues with Danny Rose are nothing at all to do with race, they are to do with the fact that he's a shithouse of a human being. Stigger, in the name of the open debate that you have - admirably - encouraged, could you just clarify that your position as I’m reading it, is that: A black player who is concerned about racism in the game can only be considered to be “principled” if they completely sacrifice their career and walk away from the game. Essentially any black player who continues to participate in football is unprincipled. If that’s not correct please point out where, in light of your comments so far.
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