Macko
Youth Player
Posts: 467
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Post by Macko on Jan 12, 2019 19:17:08 GMT
Players to keep: Butland Allen (decent player, needs a proper system around him Etebo Ince Campbell Berahino (Jones worked with him at England level, if anyone can make him a proper striker again, Jones can).
And yep thats about it for me. Possibly Clucas and Woods, far better players before they came to Stoke, and both should fit well into a diamond system but we have seen little evidence of that so far.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 12, 2019 19:18:08 GMT
Somebody like Bournemouth. Why?...are they thinking of taking a year out of the Prem??? There was paper talk before Christmas Luckily for us, some club's in the Prem still believe that he's something that he isn't. This window will probably be the last one mind.
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Post by FullerMagic on Jan 12, 2019 19:19:31 GMT
Why?...are they thinking of taking a year out of the Prem??? There was paper talk before Christmas Luckily for us, some club's in the Prem still believe that he's something that he isn't. This window will probably be the last one mind. Yeah, this window is our best chance. But Jones is Welsh, so probably views him as a demi-God...
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Post by spitthedog on Jan 12, 2019 19:21:44 GMT
Why?...are they thinking of taking a year out of the Prem??? There was paper talk before Christmas Luckily for us, some club's in the Prem still believe that he's something that he isn't. This window will probably be the last one mind. I'd be amazed if any Prem club took a punt on him. Maybe if they can get him for £3-4m as a squad player. But why would any Prem club buy a player who looks out of his depth against Brentford (and not just Brentford!). He was absolutely awful today.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 12, 2019 19:26:27 GMT
There was paper talk before Christmas Luckily for us, some club's in the Prem still believe that he's something that he isn't. This window will probably be the last one mind. I'd be amazed if any Prem club took a punt on him. Maybe if they can get him for £3-4m as a squad player. But why would any Prem club buy a player who looks out of his depth against Brentford (and not just Brentford!). He was absolutely awful today. Because they're stupid and lazy and would rather make decisions based on reputations and highlights, rather than due diligence. Time is running out for us of course though.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2019 19:32:52 GMT
Watching that has emphasised just what a massive job that the manager has. We had an awful, unbalanced squad that got relegated that's somehow been made even worse by Rowett's awful purchases in the summer. Jones's system of a midfield diamond isn't going to suit these players (the defence is too bad) but to be honest, NOTHING suits them because they're so wank. If the manager made the system work at Luton then we have to put all of our faith in his tactical philosophy and accept that we're going to watch some hidings while he sorts this mess out. The rest of the season and the summer should be spent shipping out as much of this God-awful squad as possible to give him room to manoeuvre in the transfer market. Long-term, I'd keep about six of them and the rest can go. Would genuinely like to see some of the young uns given a bit of a go until we can get some proper players in. It's such an easy thing to say: get rid of all the underperforming players. But they're all on contract, some of them long ones, and because they're underperforming, no one wants to buy them. There might just be one or two league 2 managers that would like to take some on, but they can't afford to pay the excessive wages Coates/Cartwright gave them. Now just because all our time honoured players are useless doesnt mean we should throw our kids to the dogs. Can you imagine turning up against Leeds next week with 10 kids in the team? We might even bring Alan Hansen back in vogue. We should continue to groom Edwards and Campbell. They're far from the finished article, but the only way they can mature is if they are allowed to play alongside older players. Then bit by bit, one week we might introduce Sorensen, then Souttar the next, perhaps as soon as possible unless we bring in quality stuff, then Verlinden another week. It might not pay off in the short run, but hopefully will long term. We cant know unless we try.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2019 19:37:01 GMT
Sadly he's working with the same moron recruiters. Whom he has just backed to do the transfer business while he's busy coaching.
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Post by loyalstripey on Jan 12, 2019 19:39:20 GMT
We’re a team clearly bereft of any confidence whatsoever. We play with the fear of making mistakes and strangely, it is this very mindset creates mistakes. We play as individuals and not collectively as a team….. and we are certainly missing a leader out there.
However, I don’t think we are team lacking in quality or ability, but the payers must learn to believe in themselves again. To play without fear of making mistakes and to embrace teamwork, togetherness and just begin to ‘make it happen’.
I’m 100% behind the gaffa and believe in his ability to put the pieces back together again and to emerge stronger, a force to be reckoned with once more and to become the 'winners' we were not so long ago.
Come on Jonesy, make us great again. It can be done!!
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Post by march4 on Jan 12, 2019 19:41:28 GMT
Players to keep: Butland Allen (decent player, needs a proper system around him Etebo Ince Campbell Berahino (Jones worked with him at England level, if anyone can make him a proper striker again, Jones can). And yep thats about it for me. Possibly Clucas and Woods, far better players before they came to Stoke, and both should fit well into a diamond system but we have seen little evidence of that so far. Berahino should be first out of the door.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2019 19:41:43 GMT
What 6? Butland aside, I wouldn't keep a single one of them. To be honest i was just pulling a figure out of the air! Butland I think we should sell, purely to get the money needed for the rebuild, same with Allen. We're not short of money. We should sell Butland, because he's not good enough. I know he's living off past glory, and he's still England's No 2, but we can get better keepers just by looking at our Championship competitors. Better still if we were willing to search the foreign market.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2019 19:45:13 GMT
No we know why we were not going to attract a named manager like Moyes. They would run a mile from this sqaud! Everyone outside of the club seems to think we have fantastic players on our books. I've never been able to work out why. No, managers like Moyes and others aren't running away from the best paying club outside the PL. They just weren't approached.
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Post by stokiejoe on Jan 12, 2019 19:45:39 GMT
Personally I would assume that none of the senior players are good enough unless and until the prove they are good enough. That is the huge extent of our problem, in the meantime of course we have to survive somehow. Not an easy task and I don't envy Jones the job. First priority for me is Centre backs and full backs, they need addressing this window if we are to have a chance.
What a mess we have become!
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Post by neddy on Jan 12, 2019 19:48:05 GMT
Personally I would assume that none of the senior players are good enough unless and until the prove they are good enough. That is the huge extent of our problem, in the meantime of course we have to survive somehow. Not an easy task and I don't envy Jones the job. First priority for me is Centre backs and full backs, they need addressing this window if we are to have a chance. What a mess we have become! And in terms of centre halves they have known for ages...so if nothing happens it’s a disgrace?
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Post by Trouserdog on Jan 12, 2019 20:10:18 GMT
Watching that has emphasised just what a massive job that the manager has. We had an awful, unbalanced squad that got relegated that's somehow been made even worse by Rowett's awful purchases in the summer. Jones's system of a midfield diamond isn't going to suit these players (the defence is too bad) but to be honest, NOTHING suits them because they're so wank. If the manager made the system work at Luton then we have to put all of our faith in his tactical philosophy and accept that we're going to watch some hidings while he sorts this mess out. The rest of the season and the summer should be spent shipping out as much of this God-awful squad as possible to give him room to manoeuvre in the transfer market. Long-term, I'd keep about six of them and the rest can go. Would genuinely like to see some of the young uns given a bit of a go until we can get some proper players in. It's such an easy thing to say: get rid of all the underperforming players. But they're all on contract, some of them long ones, and because they're underperforming, no one wants to buy them. There might just be one or two league 2 managers that would like to take some on, but they can't afford to pay the excessive wages Coates/Cartwright gave them. Now just because all our time honoured players are useless doesnt mean we should throw our kids to the dogs. Can you imagine turning up against Leeds next week with 10 kids in the team? We might even bring Alan Hansen back in vogue. We should continue to groom Edwards and Campbell. They're far from the finished article, but the only way they can mature is if they are allowed to play alongside older players. Then bit by bit, one week we might introduce Sorensen, then Souttar the next, perhaps as soon as possible unless we bring in quality stuff, then Verlinden another week. It might not pay off in the short run, but hopefully will long term. We cant know unless we try. Hence the words 'as much of' in relation to clearing out the squad and 'some' in regards to picking young players. Who ever said throw 10 kids in against leeds?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2019 20:15:05 GMT
It's such an easy thing to say: get rid of all the underperforming players. But they're all on contract, some of them long ones, and because they're underperforming, no one wants to buy them. There might just be one or two league 2 managers that would like to take some on, but they can't afford to pay the excessive wages Coates/Cartwright gave them. Now just because all our time honoured players are useless doesnt mean we should throw our kids to the dogs. Can you imagine turning up against Leeds next week with 10 kids in the team? We might even bring Alan Hansen back in vogue. We should continue to groom Edwards and Campbell. They're far from the finished article, but the only way they can mature is if they are allowed to play alongside older players. Then bit by bit, one week we might introduce Sorensen, then Souttar the next, perhaps as soon as possible unless we bring in quality stuff, then Verlinden another week. It might not pay off in the short run, but hopefully will long term. We cant know unless we try. Hence the words 'as much of' in relation to clearing out the squad and 'some' in regards to picking young players. Who ever said throw 10 kids in against leeds? If you're going to release all but 6 of our current squad, it's only going to take a few injuries and suspensions, and all you're left with is kids!
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Post by Trouserdog on Jan 12, 2019 20:16:15 GMT
Hence the words 'as much of' in relation to clearing out the squad and 'some' in regards to picking young players. Who ever said throw 10 kids in against leeds? If you're going to release all but 6 of our current squad, it's only going to take a few injuries and suspensions, and all you're left with is kids! Just read the post properly and then you'll see (hopefully) that I'm not saying that.
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Post by mrred on Jan 12, 2019 20:28:52 GMT
It's clear he's got a vision and it's clear he wants to build something so I really hope the fuckers don't let this guy down and they actually listen to what he's trying to do. Time to buck your fucking ideas up, lads. Christ knows you've got away with it for far too long.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Jan 12, 2019 20:33:36 GMT
I have no faith in anything or anyone connected to stoke city. Well we are all connected to Stoke so we don’t have faith in ourselves?? You think stoke fans will stick with it? We'll be back to the pre premier league 13500 in no time at all.
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Post by southcoaststokie on Jan 12, 2019 20:41:07 GMT
We have a massive squad, with so much dead wood, it is unbelievable, we are paying very expensive players to play abroad, Nathan has a big job to do, and I only just think he is beginning to realise this, GR didn't want to play the way he did, he soon realised that the defence was nowhere near good enough, which is why he had to protect it, the defence showed today as it did on the first day of the season that it is crap, Rowett wanted to bring better defenders in, but for whatever reason , this was not done, maybe this pissed Rowett off, I don't know but his job became untenable by his actions and words to the players and fans, I do believe that Stoke have made the right appointment in Nathan, just please give him the tools he needs to do the job the way he wants too, but this will be no quick fix, it will take time, we have to be patient, these are highly paid professional players, does everyone really believe that they are coached to play just one system, the system is not the problem, it is the players in that system, and as Gary did, Nathan saw before half time that the the defenders are not fit for purpose. Btw Jack should never have conceded the corner that led to the first goal
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Post by leicspotter on Jan 12, 2019 20:45:38 GMT
Watching that has emphasised just what a massive job that the manager has. We had an awful, unbalanced squad that got relegated that's somehow been made even worse by Rowett's awful purchases in the summer. Jones's system of a midfield diamond isn't going to suit these players (the defence is too bad) but to be honest, NOTHING suits them because they're so wank. If the manager made the system work at Luton then we have to put all of our faith in his tactical philosophy and accept that we're going to watch some hidings while he sorts this mess out. The rest of the season and the summer should be spent shipping out as much of this God-awful squad as possible to give him room to manoeuvre in the transfer market. Long-term, I'd keep about six of them and the rest can go. Would genuinely like to see some of the young uns given a bit of a go until we can get some proper players in. 6 might be a bit generous T Dog None of the defenders, bar Butland (although even he was poor today) Woods, Etebo and Allen maybe...who else? Obviously they can't all be got shot off straight away so Jones will need to prioritise...this season is already pretty much over so we should just sit back and watch it unfold...might be entertaining
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Post by chiswickpotter on Jan 12, 2019 20:47:42 GMT
Watching that has emphasised just what a massive job that the manager has. We had an awful, unbalanced squad that got relegated that's somehow been made even worse by Rowett's awful purchases in the summer. Jones's system of a midfield diamond isn't going to suit these players (the defence is too bad) but to be honest, NOTHING suits them because they're so wank. If the manager made the system work at Luton then we have to put all of our faith in his tactical philosophy and accept that we're going to watch some hidings while he sorts this mess out. The rest of the season and the summer should be spent shipping out as much of this God-awful squad as possible to give him room to manoeuvre in the transfer market. Long-term, I'd keep about six of them and the rest can go. Would genuinely like to see some of the young uns given a bit of a go until we can get some proper players in. But how do we "ship them out"? I'm sure we'd have loved to have shipped out Imbula, Wimmer, N'Diaye etc. But we can't because they are on massive wages. Berahino earns £80k a week, nobody is interested in our (very expensive) tat. Did Berahino not have a relegation clause?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2019 20:51:18 GMT
Interesting how every manager has commented on the quality we have in the sqaud but we never seem to have other clubs lining up to buy them. Fletcher saying he may have to leave. Where to!? Most of these players are on fat contracts and no one else wants them.
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Jan 12, 2019 20:53:52 GMT
Totally agree with the OP. Rowett's signings have made everything so much worse, we really now do need to start again.
Sell them all, let Jones build from scratch
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Post by Trouserdog on Jan 12, 2019 20:59:28 GMT
Watching that has emphasised just what a massive job that the manager has. We had an awful, unbalanced squad that got relegated that's somehow been made even worse by Rowett's awful purchases in the summer. Jones's system of a midfield diamond isn't going to suit these players (the defence is too bad) but to be honest, NOTHING suits them because they're so wank. If the manager made the system work at Luton then we have to put all of our faith in his tactical philosophy and accept that we're going to watch some hidings while he sorts this mess out. The rest of the season and the summer should be spent shipping out as much of this God-awful squad as possible to give him room to manoeuvre in the transfer market. Long-term, I'd keep about six of them and the rest can go. Would genuinely like to see some of the young uns given a bit of a go until we can get some proper players in. 6 might be a bit generous T Dog None of the defenders, bar Butland (although even he was poor today) Woods, Etebo and Allen maybe...who else? Obviously they can't all be got shot off straight away so Jones will need to prioritise...this season is already pretty much over so we should just sit back and watch it unfold...might be entertaining Butland won't stay beyond this year anyway. i think Edwards has a future even though he's not the finished article; Bauer you'd hope would shine in a system where full-backs get forward; Federici looks alright as a back-up keeper; Bruno will be alright with a decent CB partner; woods has got ability and will come good again; Etebo certainly has something about him; Clucas is versatile enough to be useful; Ince would get into any Championship side; Bojan we should try and build the team around; Campbell looks like he's got a bit of potential. There you go- that's ten I'd keep for next season!
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Post by noustie on Jan 12, 2019 21:08:01 GMT
To put that performance for a new manager is fucking embarrassing. Maybe it was naïve changing formation but the way they played you'd have thought he asked them to put their boots on their hands or something. He needs to rip out that dressing room because the culture is cancerous - they still seem under the misnomer of being Premier League. To turn that out for a guy who spoke so well and obviously just wants the same opportunity they spunked up a wall last season says it all.
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Post by stantheman on Jan 12, 2019 21:14:50 GMT
He'll be thinking of what he could have bought with all the tens of millions that we have spunked away in the last couple of years.
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Post by Trouserdog on Jan 12, 2019 21:15:19 GMT
To put that performance for a new manager is fucking embarrassing. Maybe it was naïve changing formation but the way they played you'd have thought he asked them to put their boots on their hands or something. He needs to rip out that dressing room because the culture is cancerous - they still seem under the misnomer of being Premier League. To turn that out for a guy who spoke so well and obviously just wants the same opportunity they spunked up a wall last season says it all. I don't think there was a lack of effort there- they're just absolute shite.
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Post by owdestokie2 on Jan 12, 2019 21:21:31 GMT
Posted previously as a reply on another post
Our recruitment policy (including the input of our manager) should have been based on a minimum two year plan. Players retained/ purchased should have been good enough (1) to push for promotion and as a minimum (2) been of a standard to retain Premiership status if promoted.
By all means consider our first team squad (not on paper, in reality) and comment on (1) their potential for promotion and more importantly their ability to sustain (in the short term) EPL status.
If you believe Shawcross, Williams, Indi, Woods, Ince, McLean, Clucas, Crouch, Berahino “as examples“ would deliver a minimum two year plan, fair enough. My opinion differs
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Post by heyzeus on Jan 12, 2019 21:21:47 GMT
I have no faith in anything or anyone connected to stoke city. I have faith
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Post by potterenfrance on Jan 12, 2019 21:23:45 GMT
Players to keep: Butland Allen (decent player, needs a proper system around him Etebo Ince Campbell Berahino (Jones worked with him at England level, if anyone can make him a proper striker again, Jones can). And yep thats about it for me. Possibly Clucas and Woods, far better players before they came to Stoke, and both should fit well into a diamond system but we have seen little evidence of that so far. Berahino should be first out of the door. Lol
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