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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Dec 8, 2018 1:11:12 GMT
Having read contributions on this, I'm afraid I take a very different view to at least some of my fellow stokies, and, very unusually, perhaps uniquely, with Martin as expressed in his Sentinel column. Before the specifics, some general points. Firstly, generalisations about the supporters of any club are always inappropriate. To a greater or lesser extent, all clubs have some supporters who sometimes behave badly, and all clubs have people who post silly or offensive things on social media. Stoke City included. This Board included. Port Vale included. In the past we rightly rejected generalisations about Stoke City fans based on the behaviour of a minority. After last Tuesday that reputation has begun to return, and we will rightly again reject the generalisations. But it is then completely inconsistent to make generalisations about "Vale fans" based on what a few of them might put on social media. To do so in offensive terms like "thickest shits"; "vile"; "inbreds" etc etc says far more about the people making those comments than it does about fellow football fans from the same great City who happen to support a smaller club than ours. Our neighbours. Port Vale are not a "small insignificant club". They are a Football League club. Yes, they are smaller and less rich than Stoke City. They are bigger than Leek Town and Newcastle Town, who are themselves bigger than Kidsgrove Athletic. So what ? The depth of the english football pyramid is a huge strength which is the envy of many other football nations. I get exasperated by fans who play Billy Big Time towards fans of smaller clubs, whether it is Man U fans towards Stoke fans or Stoke fans towards Vale fans. The more so when "fans" who bought their tickets from Stoke City have just trashed Vale's ground. I think criticism of Vale fans who objected to their owner considering giving established home areas over to away fans on the grounds that he is turning down much needed money is also misplaced. So even we now accept that money must always talk in football do we ? Would we ever accept an owner doing that for financial reasons with the Boothen end ? The fact that we may have done something similar 30 years ago, when many of the people reading this weren't even born is hardly relevant. This competition has already been spoiled by money, when the big clubs, including us, have bribed the EFL L1/2 clubs ones to admit the academy teams, in our football interest not theirs. Imagine if instead of Warey's magnificent winner at Peterborough we had been playing Norwich under 21s, or whoever. Or how much less the occasions would have meant if we had played Academy sides at Wembley instead of Stockport and Bristol City? If we had a more equitable distribution of football's huge wealth, as we should have, it wouldn't be necessary for clubs in L1/2 to accept such bribes. And if, god forbid, as Smudge postulates, Vale did go into administration again, I hope, and believe, many Stoke fans WOULD rally round to help. I believe it because time and again english football fans have shown a willingness to help fellow fans from clubs in crisis, recognising that what we have in common as football fans far outweighs on field rivalries. But if I was wrong about that, the FSF would co-ordinate help from fans of other clubs, which would be forthcoming. Violent or racist behaviour by a minority of Vale fans at other games recently, or at our ground many years ago, is also totally irrelevant, both to the behaviour by some of our "fans" on Tuesday, and to the question of whether Stoke City should pay for the damage. I personally think it should. Not because our Club is in any way responsible ( it isn't) or because the large majority of our regular fans are (they certainly aren't) or because there is any legal obligation to do so (there isn't), or because Vale have a great and competent owner (they don't) but simply because, as a club which has just come out of the PL, we are far richer than our neighbours, and we sold the tickets to the perpetrators of the criminal damage. Last night I was at the League Managers Association annual dinner at Wembley. Normally at these events, people in football I already know and meet start asking about fans issues like standing areas, ticket prices, games moved for TV etc. Last night it was about Tuesday - are Stoke fans going back to the bad old days?; why did it happen ? what a disgrace etc etc. I became acutely aware of the damage this has done to our reputation. I fear we may get more robust policing and stewarding or even reduced allocations on the back of it. Thanks guys On a lighter note, when I saw on the table plan that I was seated next to Gary Johnson, I assumed it was be the ex- Yeovil manager. In fact it turned out be another Gary Johnson, from a charity called DEBRA, which has connections with Richard Bevan, the LMA CEO. He told me that they had a charity golf event in which he had invited Bevan to play, who said he wasn't available. When Richard's diary changed, he rang and left a message for Gary, saying he was available if Gary was still short of a player for the team. Or so he thought. In fact he had inadvertently rung the wrong Gary Johnson in his contact list and left it on the answerphone of the Yeovil manager. He got a message back which said " I know we're desperate, Richard, but I'm not THAT bloody desperate" Returning to serious, and much more serious even than Vale Park. DEBRA is a charity which is concerned with a terrible life-limiting children's disease called EB, which I confess I didn't know much about until last night. Because the number of sufferers is relatively small, they struggle to "compete" with health charities involved with cancer etc. If you are looking for a charity to give money to in lieu of xmas cards, or would be willing to consider a seasonal donation here is their website www.debra.org.uk
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Post by Sfance on Dec 8, 2018 1:29:27 GMT
Well said, Malcolm. When I lived in Stoke, I considered the Vale my second team, and to a certain extent still do. The vitriol expressed towards Port Vale on this board is very sad.
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Post by wuzza on Dec 8, 2018 7:36:45 GMT
Unfortunately for the good work that your organisation does Malcolm you are always up against the fact that some people enjoy the confrontation, and even potential violence, that football offers an opportunity for. Combine this with the fact that a lot of very silly things are posted on social media often by people who again enjoy discord and conflict (but at arms length) and the net result is the rather unpleasant undercurrent that runs through this game but not most other sports. It really isn’t club specific , it’s general. That being said nothing about how either Vale or the local agencies approached Tuesdays fixture struck me as being particularly competent. On the bigger picture I’ve always much preferred a North Staffs resident to follow Vale rather than Utd or Liverpool or some such but the mischievous thought that if they had never existed a city the size of SoT might have had a better chance of competing has occaisionally crossed my mind !
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Dec 8, 2018 8:11:00 GMT
Malcolm
Key question is why didn’t the senior execs at our club tune in to the risk and say season ticket holders only , it was hardly a big secret , that trouble was around the corner
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Post by stevetheboater on Dec 8, 2018 8:28:17 GMT
Hear hear, Malcolm. As a Stoke fan who has been to shout for the Vale on many an occasion when we're not playing, it saddened me that this was so predictable and for that reason I decided it was better not to attend. It should have been a great evening but as it turned out I was more than happy to be somewhere else. Posts on here name-calling those who are trying to help the authorities round up the perpetrators by sharing photos and videos of Tuesdays shameful behaviour do none of us any favours. We need these idiots barred from our club for good, and the sooner the better.
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Post by stantheman on Dec 8, 2018 8:41:13 GMT
Malcolm,
The main Legacy from Tuesday's match is that the vast majority of what we are now talking about could have been prevented with some better foresight from the powers that be.
Had you attended the match you would have been as gobsmacked as me upon entering the ground and seeing Vale fans within 15 yards of Stoke fans in the corner of the Railway Paddock. Police and Stewards watched Vale fans rip down netting to get closer to us. It was niaeve of PVFC and Staffs Police to allow this to happen.
The events on Tuesday were horrific and cannot in any way be condoned, but had the powers that be come up with three simple changes;
a) Close the Railway Stand completely. b) Issue tickets with designated seats for Stoke supporters that were traceable. c) No alcohol sales in the away end.
Then we would not be in the position we are now.
I think many people would disagree with your views in regard to us being the 'richer club' and therefore should pay for the damage. When Port Vale fans have caused damage at other grounds, and they most definitely have, should the bank books come out to work out which of the 2 clubs was 'richer' and who should pay for what?
I can safely say that if Port Vale were to go into administration, again, not many Stoke supporters would bat an eyelid.
I have to say that Martin Smith has reflected the views of many supporters and not just 'tut, tutted' in regard to what took place on Tuesday.
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Post by Waggy on Dec 8, 2018 9:13:33 GMT
I understand why people are worried and i don't condone hooliganism of any kind. What does get my blood boiling a bit is the fact that other fans say about stoke - horrible club, horrible fans. This to me is the reputation of our club from the early premier league days and how we were portrayed as a thug club by the media and foreign managers who wanted an easy ride against a club that should be easily beaten. Malcolm, other fans eg Arsenal at White Hart Lane - trashed toilets, threw advertisment boards at stewards and police and threw coins at Spurs fans, liverpool fans and Manchester United fans fighting and throwing flares at each other in that european semi final, Port Vale fans causing trouble, vandalising at crewe and there are many more incidents. If Stoke City recieve reduced ticket allocations and other teams violence are treated as one offs then the supporters council should fight our corner all the way.
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teagles05
Youth Player
Football had always been my first drug from as early as I could remember
Posts: 265
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Post by teagles05 on Dec 8, 2018 9:23:44 GMT
Malcolm Key question is why didn’t the senior execs at our club tune in to the risk and say season ticket holders only , it was hardly a big secret , that trouble was around the corner I don't have a season ticket as I work most weekends. I went to the match and didn't cause any trouble. Why should I not be allowed to go?
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Dec 8, 2018 9:38:27 GMT
Malcolm Key question is why didn’t the senior execs at our club tune in to the risk and say season ticket holders only , it was hardly a big secret , that trouble was around the corner I don't have a season ticket as I work most weekends. I went to the match and didn't cause any trouble. Why should I not be allowed to go? To be clear I’m not saying you would or are likely to do but The clubs name is key and it was an obvious powder keg by issuing no controls we simply ignored any risk
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Post by wagsastokie on Dec 8, 2018 9:44:44 GMT
Malcolm, The main Legacy from Tuesday's match is that the vast majority of what we are now talking about could have been prevented with some better foresight from the powers that be. Had you attended the match you would have been as gobsmacked as me upon entering the ground and seeing Vale fans within 15 yards of Stoke fans in the corner of the Railway Paddock. Police and Stewards watched Vale fans rip down netting to get closer to us. It was niaeve of PVFC and Staffs Police to allow this to happen. The events on Tuesday were horrific and cannot in any way be condoned, but had the powers that be come up with three simple changes; a) Close the Railway Stand completely. b) Issue tickets with designated seats for Stoke supporters that were traceable. c) No alcohol sales in the away end. Then we would not be in the position we are now. I think many people would disagree with your views in regard to us being the 'richer club' and therefore should pay for the damage. When Port Vale fans have caused damage at other grounds, and they most definitely have, should the bank books come out to work out which of the 2 clubs was 'richer' and who should pay for what? I can safely say that if Port Vale were to go into administration, again, not many Stoke supporters would bat an eyelid. I have to say that Martin Smith has reflected the views of many supporters and not just 'tut, tutted' in regard to what took place on Tuesday. c) ban alcohol sales from away end Why should law abiding citizens be deprived of pursuing a legal act of consuming a alcoholic drink Because of the actions of idiots Most of the for mentioned idiots if under the influence of drink have consumed sufficient before the game A sledgehammer to crack a nut is a touch of overkill
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teagles05
Youth Player
Football had always been my first drug from as early as I could remember
Posts: 265
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Post by teagles05 on Dec 8, 2018 9:49:42 GMT
I don't have a season ticket as I work most weekends. I went to the match and didn't cause any trouble. Why should I not be allowed to go? To be clear I’m not saying you would or are likely to do but The clubs name is key and it was an obvious powder keg by issuing no controls we simply ignored any risk Oh yeh sorry that wasn't me having a dig like you were accusing all none season ticket holders of causing trouble.. Just wondering why it's assumed season ticket holders weren't involved? Don't think you can do it that way though by saying season ticket holders only, as none holders should be allowed the right to buy a ticket if they can. As with normal away games a season ticket first with points, then normal season tickets, eventually moving to general would have been good enough. Personally think the whole thing has been blown way out of proportion, the people only there to cause trouble won't be at any more games. It was one flash point, which yes wasn't acceptable. But it was a one off
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Post by Absolution on Dec 8, 2018 9:56:39 GMT
Malcolm Key question is why didn’t the senior execs at our club tune in to the risk and say season ticket holders only , it was hardly a big secret , that trouble was around the corner Where has it been reported that the trouble makers were not season ticket holders?
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Post by Pugsley on Dec 8, 2018 11:23:44 GMT
A few words spring to my mind when reading some of the posts on this thread....
Overreaction Busy bodies Condescending
I don't condone the trouble at all, it was out of order. I'll say this though, any concern for Port Vale just boils my piss. They can do one.
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Dec 8, 2018 11:41:34 GMT
A few words spring to my mind when reading some of the posts on this thread.... Overreaction Busy bodies Condescending I don't condone the trouble at all, it was out of order. I'll say this though, any concern for Port Vale just boils my piss. They can do one. Our FSF caseworker and the Vale Supporters Liaison Officer have spent much of the week dealing with the case of a 9 year old Stoke fan who was accidentally hit in the face by a police baton. I can’t say more because the family don’t want publicity. Is that “busy body” or “over reaction “ ? I don’t think so. Both clubs and the police have been excellent about it.
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Post by lloydcolesguitar on Dec 8, 2018 11:47:37 GMT
I understand why people are worried and i don't condone hooliganism of any kind. What does get my blood boiling a bit is the fact that other fans say about stoke - horrible club, horrible fans. This to me is the reputation of our club from the early premier league days and how we were portrayed as a thug club by the media and foreign managers who wanted an easy ride against a club that should be easily beaten. Malcolm, other fans eg Arsenal at White Hart Lane - trashed toilets, threw advertisment boards at stewards and police and threw coins at Spurs fans, liverpool fans and Manchester United fans fighting and throwing flares at each other in that european semi final, Port Vale fans causing trouble, vandalising at crewe and there are many more incidents. If Stoke City recieve reduced ticket allocations and other teams violence are treated as one offs then the supporters council should fight our corner all the way. Waggy i am lucky enough to be away on holiday at the moment. The only paper i could get Thursday was the Mail. It had an almost full page spread on the trouble and slagging SCFC and its fans off, nothing as to the problems PVFC had brought on it self. I said an almost full page as right at the bottom of tbe page was a small mention of the trouble at the M23 Derby, a game unless i am mistaken (i am not fully up to speed at the moment !) Featured just 1 less arrest than our game. Yes everone hates our beloved club and a lot if it is down to lazy journalism Duraham/Collins/Green. I have not seen one mention in the media of the Vale fans ripping the netting to get at SCFC fans
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Dec 8, 2018 11:51:23 GMT
I understand why people are worried and i don't condone hooliganism of any kind. What does get my blood boiling a bit is the fact that other fans say about stoke - horrible club, horrible fans. This to me is the reputation of our club from the early premier league days and how we were portrayed as a thug club by the media and foreign managers who wanted an easy ride against a club that should be easily beaten. Malcolm, other fans eg Arsenal at White Hart Lane - trashed toilets, threw advertisment boards at stewards and police and threw coins at Spurs fans, liverpool fans and Manchester United fans fighting and throwing flares at each other in that european semi final, Port Vale fans causing trouble, vandalising at crewe and there are many more incidents. If Stoke City recieve reduced ticket allocations and other teams violence are treated as one offs then the supporters council should fight our corner all the way. I think there was a time when our record was considerably worse than average but that was a long time ago. You are right that these reputions take a long time to shake off. We had done that after many successive years of low arrests etc. The danger is that Tuesday has put us back in that spotlight big style. I can’t speak for the Supporters Council but the FSF and the Supporters Club will certainly fight our corner - not literally of course 😄
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Post by clintonbaptiste on Dec 8, 2018 11:58:06 GMT
A few words spring to my mind when reading some of the posts on this thread.... Overreaction Busy bodies Condescending I don't condone the trouble at all, it was out of order. I'll say this though, any concern for Port Vale just boils my piss. They can do one. Our FSF caseworker and the Vale Supporters Liaison Officer have spent much of the week dealing with the case of a 9 year old Stoke fan who was accidentally hit in the face by a police baton. I can’t say more because the family don’t want publicity. Is that “busy body” or “over reaction “ ? I don’t think so. Both clubs and the police have been excellent about it. The police have been getting away with accidentally hitting football fans with batons for years, biggest hooligans on this earth.
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Dec 8, 2018 12:02:06 GMT
In the 1960s and 1970s my Grandad has season tickets at Stoke and Vale. His heart was with Vale (having being born in Longport) but he told me Stoke were a bigger Club.
I've never disliked Vale they are a Stoke on Trent Club, whose fans are just as passionate and loyal as we are. It is possible to have good friends who are Vale fans and enjoy good, friendly banter without any nastiness and animosity.
Unfortunately, there are those fans, on both sides, who don't seem able to do this.
That tells you more about those individuals than it does about Stoke or Vale.
Very sad.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2018 12:04:58 GMT
I'd be very interested to know the rationale of Port Vale in opening the Railway Paddock to home fans, right next to the away stand, when the Bycars End was closed and empty. I might be wrong on this one but surely that would have been easier to segregate, if a bit more difficult to Police a wider area?
I'm also interested in the logic of selling alcohol on the night?
I appreciate we live in a society whereby we should be able to trust adults to drink and behave (no really) but this was a special occasion wasn't it? Not played each other for 16 years, both sets of supporters have a very rogue element and a long history of trouble during the two fixtures.
Would it have really hurt to implement better segregation and restrict alcohol sales on the night?
I'm not naive to say that would have restricted the trouble to nothing but surely it would have calmed things down a bit to a more acceptable level whereby Police are not removing stewards from the situation, and are able to deal with it much better themselves?
From a very distant viewpoint, it seems a lot of lessons could and should be learned from this on both sides of the fence.
I'm hoping and trusting Port Vale will do their bit and not just resort to the stock position of playing the 'woe is me' card on this one.
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Dec 8, 2018 12:06:31 GMT
Malcolm, The main Legacy from Tuesday's match is that the vast majority of what we are now talking about could have been prevented with some better foresight from the powers that be. Had you attended the match you would have been as gobsmacked as me upon entering the ground and seeing Vale fans within 15 yards of Stoke fans in the corner of the Railway Paddock. Police and Stewards watched Vale fans rip down netting to get closer to us. It was niaeve of PVFC and Staffs Police to allow this to happen. The events on Tuesday were horrific and cannot in any way be condoned, but had the powers that be come up with three simple changes; a) Close the Railway Stand completely. b) Issue tickets with designated seats for Stoke supporters that were traceable. c) No alcohol sales in the away end. Then we would not be in the position we are now. I think many people would disagree with your views in regard to us being the 'richer club' and therefore should pay for the damage. When Port Vale fans have caused damage at other grounds, and they most definitely have, should the bank books come out to work out which of the 2 clubs was 'richer' and who should pay for what? I can safely say that if Port Vale were to go into administration, again, not many Stoke supporters would bat an eyelid. I have to say that Martin Smith has reflected the views of many supporters and not just 'tut, tutted' in regard to what took place on Tuesday. Stan my point was that Stoke City might pay not just because we are the richer club but the combination of that and the fact that it was Stoke ticket holders ( I won’t grace them with the word supporters ) who caused the damage. I think it’s sad that you wouldn’t bat an eyelid if Vale went out of business. The football pyramid depends on our rich variety of clubs at all levels. But neither you nor Martin should assume that crises can’t happen at so-called big clubs like ours. Ask the fans of Pompey, Leeds, Coventry and others. And of course Vale have their share of idiots as well
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Post by xchpotter on Dec 8, 2018 12:15:38 GMT
Any chance we could actually lay the blame on the complete pricks who undertook these actions rather than excusing their behaviour on the avaibility of ale or our club for not raising ticketing issues or the Vale who understandably wanted to make as much money as possible? Until we unequivocally hammer these individuals and support our own fans in rooting these dicks out then I’m afraid our label will quite rightly stick. Accordingly we can expect a level of policing and stewarding in line with the threat we pose and when we do shouldn’t then whine about it.
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Dec 8, 2018 12:34:57 GMT
I'd be very interested to know the rationale of Port Vale in opening the Railway Paddock to home fans, right next to the away stand, when the Bycars End was closed and empty. I might be wrong on this one but surely that would have been easier to segregate, if a bit more difficult to Police a wider area? I'm also interested in the logic of selling alcohol on the night? I appreciate we live in a society whereby we should be able to trust adults to drink and behave (no really) but this was a special occasion wasn't it? Not played each other for 16 years, both sets of supporters have a very rogue element and a long history of trouble during the two fixtures. Would it have really hurt to implement better segregation and restrict alcohol sales on the night? I'm not naive to say that would have restricted the trouble to nothing but surely it would have calmed things down a bit to a more acceptable level whereby Police are not removing stewards from the situation, and are able to deal with it much better themselves? From a very distant viewpoint, it seems a lot of lessons could and should be learned from this on both sides of the fence. I'm hoping and trusting Port Vale will do their bit and not just resort to the stock position of playing the 'woe is me' card on this one.
Before any potential risk game there should be a meeting involving supporters reps from both clubs, the supporters liaison officers, the safety officer and the police to talk through possible problems, issues and solutions. It didn’t happen in this case. When there have been problems there should be a post math debrief involving the same parties as happened after or game at Preston. It’s just sensible good pratice but unfortunately it rarely happenes. I’m sure there will be many lessons which Vale and the police should learn from last Tuesday.
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Post by crazyhorse on Dec 8, 2018 12:35:13 GMT
A few words spring to my mind when reading some of the posts on this thread.... Overreaction Busy bodies Condescending I don't condone the trouble at all, it was out of order. I'll say this though, any concern for Port Vale just boils my piss. They can do one. This. I'm sick of the self-flagellation going on here. Stokies saying they're ashamed of our club, they're ashamed of our own fans etc. Well, I'm ashamed of the cringeworthy virtue signalling and mock outrage being posted on here, day after day. The Sentivale and that prick Tideswell are loving it and milking it for everything it's worth. Grow a back bone and stand up for your club and it's fans you wankers. P.S. Coatsey, don't give that grotesque, gin-soaked clown and his tin-pot club a fucking penny. If it wasn't for us, that game would heve been played in front of 200 people and a dog, like every other fucking game they play.
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Post by Dave the Rave on Dec 8, 2018 12:37:34 GMT
There are a proportion of the human race who are angry little neanderthals who will find any excuse to fulfill their desire for aggressive, violent behaviour.
In this case, it was a football club having the temerity to be within a short distance of another football club.
It happens every day in all walks of life and it's incredibly sad. It's the "You're different to me so I don't like you" mentality.
Blaming Port Vale, the Police, Stewards or whoever else you fancy is missing the point entirely.
There is no excuse whatsoever for this type of behaviour to ever happen.
The reason it happens is that the perpetrators lack the intelligence to see any other way of behaving, they're still controlled by animal instinct alone and the left side of their brain hasn't evolved to the level required for a truly civilised society.
They're only human in biological terms for me. I certainly don't group myself in any way with vermin.
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Post by Dave the Rave on Dec 8, 2018 12:40:48 GMT
A few words spring to my mind when reading some of the posts on this thread.... Overreaction Busy bodies Condescending I don't condone the trouble at all, it was out of order. I'll say this though, any concern for Port Vale just boils my piss. They can do one. This. I'm sick of the self-flagellation going on here. Stokies saying they're ashamed of our club, they're ashamed of our own fans etc. Well, I'm ashamed of the cringeworthy virtue signalling and mock outrage being posted on here, day after day. The Sentivale and that prick Tideswell are loving it and milking it for everything it's worth. Grow a back bone and stand up for your club and it's fans you wankers. P.S. Coatsey, don't give that grotesque, gin-soaked clown and his tin-pot club a fucking penny. If it wasn't for us, that game would heve been played in front of 200 people and a dog, like every other fucking game they play. Mock outrage? Thank Christ people are outraged by this type of behaviour. Imagine what the world would look like if people didn't speak out against the behaviour of these absolute scumbags. If animals behaved in such a way they'd be put down.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2018 12:45:32 GMT
I'd be very interested to know the rationale of Port Vale in opening the Railway Paddock to home fans, right next to the away stand, when the Bycars End was closed and empty. I might be wrong on this one but surely that would have been easier to segregate, if a bit more difficult to Police a wider area? I'm also interested in the logic of selling alcohol on the night? I appreciate we live in a society whereby we should be able to trust adults to drink and behave (no really) but this was a special occasion wasn't it? Not played each other for 16 years, both sets of supporters have a very rogue element and a long history of trouble during the two fixtures. Would it have really hurt to implement better segregation and restrict alcohol sales on the night? I'm not naive to say that would have restricted the trouble to nothing but surely it would have calmed things down a bit to a more acceptable level whereby Police are not removing stewards from the situation, and are able to deal with it much better themselves? From a very distant viewpoint, it seems a lot of lessons could and should be learned from this on both sides of the fence. I'm hoping and trusting Port Vale will do their bit and not just resort to the stock position of playing the 'woe is me' card on this one.
Before any potential risk game there should be a meeting involving supporters reps from both clubs, the supporters liaison officers, the safety officer and the police to talk through possible problems, issues and solutions. It didn’t happen in this case. When there have been problems there should be a post math debrief involving the same parties as happened after or game at Preston. It’s just sensible good pratice but unfortunately it rarely happenes. I’m sure there will be many lessons which Vale and the police should learn from last Tuesday. Thanks Malcolm. That's very interesting but equally disappointing to read/hear, especially given the history surrounding the fixture.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2018 12:51:04 GMT
There are a proportion of the human race who are angry little neanderthals who will find any excuse to fulfill their desire for aggressive, violent behaviour. In this case, it was a football club having the temerity to be within a short distance of another football club. It happens every day in all walks of life and it's incredibly sad. It's the "You're different to me so I don't like you" mentality. Blaming Port Vale, the Police, Stewards or whoever else you fancy is missing the point entirely. There is no excuse whatsoever for this type of behaviour to ever happen. The reason it happens is that the perpetrators lack the intelligence to see any other way of behaving, they're still controlled by animal instinct alone and the left side of their brain hasn't evolved to the level required for a truly civilised society. They're only human in biological terms for me. I certainly don't group myself in any way with vermin. Surely the idea is to put a system and framework in place that manages any situation as well as possible and minimises the risk to the general public though? It's not blaming the Police, Port Vale or the stewards for what happened, it's asking whether more could have been done to reduce the risk of trouble escalating to that level, whilst being able to fish out and prosecute anyone guilty of public order. Whilst there are very real questions about whether any party did enough before, during or after then those questions should and need to be asked. These people found guilty should never be able to set foot inside a football stadium again.
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Post by clintonbaptiste on Dec 8, 2018 12:55:21 GMT
A few words spring to my mind when reading some of the posts on this thread.... Overreaction Busy bodies Condescending I don't condone the trouble at all, it was out of order. I'll say this though, any concern for Port Vale just boils my piss. They can do one. This. I'm sick of the self-flagellation going on here. Stokies saying they're ashamed of our club, they're ashamed of our own fans etc. Well, I'm ashamed of the cringeworthy virtue signalling and mock outrage being posted on here, day after day. The Sentivale and that prick Tideswell are loving it and milking it for everything it's worth. Grow a back bone and stand up for your club and it's fans you wankers. P.S. Coatsey, don't give that grotesque, gin-soaked clown and his tin-pot club a fucking penny. If it wasn't for us, that game would heve been played in front of 200 people and a dog, like every other fucking game they play. Any fans who went a Potts derby in the 90's would've seen worse shenanigans than this, pubs trashed, smoke bombed and some actual fisticuffs. Tuesday was sad in terms of daft vandalism, but other than that it passed pretty quietly in comparison to the old days.
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Post by valefaninpeace on Dec 8, 2018 13:08:46 GMT
I'd be very interested to know the rationale of Port Vale in opening the Railway Paddock to home fans, right next to the away stand, when the Bycars End was closed and empty. I might be wrong on this one but surely that would have been easier to segregate, if a bit more difficult to Police a wider area?
I'm also interested in the logic of selling alcohol on the night?
I appreciate we live in a society whereby we should be able to trust adults to drink and behave (no really) but this was a special occasion wasn't it? Not played each other for 16 years, both sets of supporters have a very rogue element and a long history of trouble during the two fixtures.
Would it have really hurt to implement better segregation and restrict alcohol sales on the night?
I'm not naive to say that would have restricted the trouble to nothing but surely it would have calmed things down a bit to a more acceptable level whereby Police are not removing stewards from the situation, and are able to deal with it much better themselves?
From a very distant viewpoint, it seems a lot of lessons could and should be learned from this on both sides of the fence.
I'm hoping and trusting Port Vale will do their bit and not just resort to the stock position of playing the 'woe is me' card on this one.
To be fair though mate. Why should Vale have to close the Paddock. Yes I understand it's close to the away end but it's Vales most popular end and our designated home end. Would Stoke fans take kindly if an away club demanded Stoke shut the Boothen because they are scared a few morons might kick off. Surely fans should be able to enjoy a game of football, have banter without behaving like fucking animals.
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Post by crazyhorse on Dec 8, 2018 13:12:08 GMT
This. I'm sick of the self-flagellation going on here. Stokies saying they're ashamed of our club, they're ashamed of our own fans etc. Well, I'm ashamed of the cringeworthy virtue signalling and mock outrage being posted on here, day after day. The Sentivale and that prick Tideswell are loving it and milking it for everything it's worth. Grow a back bone and stand up for your club and it's fans you wankers. P.S. Coatsey, don't give that grotesque, gin-soaked clown and his tin-pot club a fucking penny. If it wasn't for us, that game would heve been played in front of 200 people and a dog, like every other fucking game they play. Mock outrage? Thank Christ people are outraged by this type of behaviour. Imagine what the world would look like if people didn't speak out against the behaviour of these absolute scumbags. If animals behaved in such a way they'd be put down. Well thank god we've got you and your fellow Dail Mail readers on here to express that outrage for us. You'll probably get a medal or something from Tideswell and his Stoke-hating cronies in the local media.
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