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Post by WorkingclassHero on Dec 4, 2018 21:40:50 GMT
Anyone know how much money these youngsters are on ? There was a rumour Shelton penned a 5k a week deal if I remember correctly. Which is pretty ridiculous given he was only ever a neat and tidy plodder plenty are on a couple of k a week id guess?
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Post by troj on Dec 4, 2018 21:41:34 GMT
In ten years, not two, name one apart from a potential Edwards? Well when Pulis was around it was pointless, was Shotton one of ours? How many have other Champ/Prem teams managed in the same time frame? You can't really ask that question then take out one of the options , we can't score goals, apart from all the goals we've score when have we actually scored a goal. Genius logic flaps genius
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Post by rawli on Dec 4, 2018 21:42:12 GMT
No - it is a total dogs dinner Given the money Coates has pumped in it is currently a total failure Another nail in the self sufficiency coffin. Presumably the idea was to bring youngsters through and sell them like Southampton have done.
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Post by spitthedog on Dec 4, 2018 21:42:36 GMT
They definitely look like they are learning to play football....I suppose that is the idea!
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Post by wagstand on Dec 4, 2018 21:43:01 GMT
Why wasn’t Shotto one of ours he was at the club from 9 years of age ?
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Post by SamB_SCFC on Dec 4, 2018 21:46:14 GMT
Years ago, I think Wilko even pre dates the academy and has retired now. Not a good record.
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on Dec 4, 2018 21:48:22 GMT
Anyone know how much money these youngsters are on ? There was a rumour Shelton penned a 5k a week deal if I remember correctly. Which is pretty ridiculous given he was only ever a neat and tidy plodder plenty are on a couple of k a week id guess? Interesting to compare with how much Vale players were on!
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Post by nutterpotter on Dec 4, 2018 21:50:11 GMT
We’ve got players who are 20/21 who haven’t played a first team game in their career. They’re just stagnating, look at Shelton what’s the point? This. This. This. We've had a load of players over the past few years whom have looked really talented at 17/18 but haven't been able to push on after that. Sad state of affairs really. Need to get as many of them as possible out on loan playing men's football.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2018 21:53:33 GMT
What do people expect? A u21 side with 15 PL players in it?
Out of that bunch tonight:
Collins will Def play PL football Thandi looks like he could make the grade Sorenson is very good and will play at Champ level or higher Jarvis same as Soreson
Campbell... Cant say. Isolated up front but is scoring goals other than that.
Tre Pemberton....looks promising
Of the others. Most will probably forge some sort of lower league career. Verlinden probably in Europe.
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Post by wagstand on Dec 4, 2018 21:54:21 GMT
It’s no point having a go at the players for what money they are on. It’s about the judgement of the people who pay them and the advice they give the players regarding getting experience etc
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Post by troj on Dec 4, 2018 21:59:24 GMT
What do people expect? A u21 side with 15 PL players in it? Out of that bunch tonight: Collins will Def play PL football Thandi looks like he could make the grade Sorenson is very good and will play at Champ level or higher Jarvis same as Soreson Campbell... Cant say. Isolated up front but is scoring goals other than that. Tre Pemberton....looks promising Of the others. Most will probably forge some sort of lower league career. Verlinden probably in Europe. Not a chance any of them will be anywhere near the Champo.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2018 22:05:49 GMT
What do people expect? A u21 side with 15 PL players in it? Out of that bunch tonight: Collins will Def play PL football Thandi looks like he could make the grade Sorenson is very good and will play at Champ level or higher Jarvis same as Soreson Campbell... Cant say. Isolated up front but is scoring goals other than that. Tre Pemberton....looks promising Of the others. Most will probably forge some sort of lower league career. Verlinden probably in Europe. Not a chance any of them will be anywhere near the Champo. I will wager you £100 that Sorenson and Collins will.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Dec 4, 2018 22:07:35 GMT
Well when Pulis was around it was pointless, was Shotton one of ours? How many have other Champ/Prem teams managed in the same time frame? You can't really ask that question then take out one of the options , we can't score goals, apart from all the goals we've score when have we actually scored a goal. Genius logic flaps genius
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Post by staffordstokie31 on Dec 4, 2018 22:15:10 GMT
Nurturing academy talent into a first team requires patience... an attribute nobody at Stoke, nor any 7th & below Premier League/recent Premier League club can afford to have. There is too much at stake to take a risk.
In the summer, people on here were saying Campbell should start for us in the Championship- absolutely mind boggling.
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Post by lordb on Dec 4, 2018 22:35:42 GMT
Not a chance any of them will be anywhere near the Champo. I will wager you £100 that Sorenson and Collins will. Given how young he is thought Collins was excellent. Anyway problem for young players is there is no reserve team football any more where you had to step up and play against men.
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Post by johnnysoul60 on Dec 4, 2018 22:39:24 GMT
I have long held a view that once you are 18 you need to be playing against men most of the time , I have seen very little evidence to challenge that view . Vale were always going to be up for tonight with so much being made if the game and the result speaks for itself on the academy issue as does the lack of any first team players .
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Post by lordb on Dec 4, 2018 22:44:54 GMT
I have long held a view that once you are 18 you need to be playing against men most of the time , I have seen very little evidence to challenge that view . Vale were always going to be up for tonight with so much being made if the game and the result speaks for itself on the academy issue as does the lack of any first team players . Absolutely. Some good out on loan but all over the country there are lots and lots of 18 to 21 year olds who only play U23 football. + There are senior players at every club who rarely play. Bring back reserve level football!
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Post by troj on Dec 4, 2018 22:45:18 GMT
Not a chance any of them will be anywhere near the Champo. I will wager you £100 that Sorenson and Collins will. If you were a Valey I'd be absolutely delighted to take your cash.......plus based upon the evidence tonight and over the last ten years there's been more than enough gambling done in these parts (unfortunately)
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Post by andylgr on Dec 4, 2018 22:49:18 GMT
Some of these lads showed they aren’t up to it and also the value of actually playing football that means something. For example look at a couple of similar players, Campbell playing against Nathan smith got absolutely nothing out of him. Verlinden, the next big thing, he’s sitting in the pockets of their right back james Gibbons. There’s 2 young lads for Vale who come from the area and are a similar age to Campbell and Verlinden and they showed the value of playing proper football. Our lads need to get out if they are to improve, academies are only stockpiling players.
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Post by lordb on Dec 4, 2018 22:53:10 GMT
Some of these lads showed they aren’t up to it and also the value of actually playing football that means something. For example look at a couple of similar players, Campbell playing against Nathan smith got absolutely nothing out of him. Verlinden, the next big thing, he’s sitting in the pockets of their right back james Gibbons. There’s 2 young lads for Vale who come from the area and are a similar age to Campbell and Verlinden and they showed the value of playing proper football. Our lads need to get out if they are to improve, academies are only stockpiling players. Verlinden was beating Gibbons over and over again, that's why they first doubled up on him and then resorted to kicking lumps out if him. Agree about Campbell and agree they need to go out on loan in January.
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Post by adi on Dec 4, 2018 22:55:20 GMT
So what's going wrong - we've got brilliant facilities etc. Or is it just the Academy model doesn't work? Stoke will rarely get the 'pick of the crop' of British youngsters as we'll be well down the 'attraction index' when talented boys are looking around for an academy. Chelsea are held up as an example of a very good set-up for youngsters and their teams seem to do very well. They can do this when they have 'hoovered' up so much of the better young talent that they can afford to have 20+ out on loan, getting their education in the hard leagues school. Not knowing much of other clubs' academy squads, I have no idea what is considered to be a good success rate for them. It could be anything from 1 in 5 for Chelsea, Man City and the like up to 1 in 15 or more for clubs like ours. Didn’t we get verlindin and Ngoy who were highly rated and on big clubs radars? There’s another lad too but his name escapes me that apparently Madrid were looking at. I just don’t think we develop them well....sadly
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Post by andylgr on Dec 4, 2018 22:59:53 GMT
Some of these lads showed they aren’t up to it and also the value of actually playing football that means something. For example look at a couple of similar players, Campbell playing against Nathan smith got absolutely nothing out of him. Verlinden, the next big thing, he’s sitting in the pockets of their right back james Gibbons. There’s 2 young lads for Vale who come from the area and are a similar age to Campbell and Verlinden and they showed the value of playing proper football. Our lads need to get out if they are to improve, academies are only stockpiling players. Verlinden was beating Gibbons over and over again, that's why they first doubled up on him and then resorted to kicking lumps out if him. Agree about Campbell and agree they need to go out on loan in January. I’m as rose tinted as the next fan but Verlinden did nothing, if he cant handle a full back doing what they should be doing which is to get stuck in to the winger then he’s clearly not up to it. He was robbed every time first half. Verlinden is not going to make it for us. Simple.
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Post by lordb on Dec 4, 2018 23:01:02 GMT
Verlinden was beating Gibbons over and over again, that's why they first doubled up on him and then resorted to kicking lumps out if him. Agree about Campbell and agree they need to go out on loan in January. I’m as rose tinted as the next fan but Verlinden did nothing, if he cant handle a full back doing what they should and get stuck in then clearly not to it. He was robbed every time first half. Verlinden is not going to make it for us. Simple. We've watched a different game.
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Post by songthrush01 on Dec 4, 2018 23:05:20 GMT
haugaard who the hell give him a new contract.
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Post by andylgr on Dec 4, 2018 23:06:50 GMT
That’s football mate. Different opinions. In fact I’d go so far as to say I’d have taken Gibbons over our right back today. It looks like they’ve signed a wilko clone to me. But the point remains that our lads are only going to get better by getting out and playing at that level of football and not being couped up in an academy doing nothing.
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Post by johnnysoul60 on Dec 4, 2018 23:14:22 GMT
I will wager you £100 that Sorenson and Collins will. If you were a Valey I'd be absolutely delighted to take your cash.......plus based upon the evidence tonight and over the last ten years there's been more than enough gambling done in these parts (unfortunately) Sorensen should be in our squad now instead of Fletcher and Collins should be on loan in league 2 both are good lads but if they don't play against men it will pass them by . Similarly Edwards should be playing and Rowett should not be allowed to sign dead wood shite like Martina in my view . We should be doing a deal with a club like Macc to loan young players to to get them experience.
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Post by troj on Dec 4, 2018 23:22:25 GMT
If you were a Valey I'd be absolutely delighted to take your cash.......plus based upon the evidence tonight and over the last ten years there's been more than enough gambling done in these parts (unfortunately) Sorensen should be in our squad now instead of Fletcher and Collins should be on loan in league 2 both are good lads but if they don't play against men it will pass them by . Similarly Edwards should be playing and Rowett should not be allowed to sign dead wood shite like Martina in my view . We should be doing a deal with a club like Macc to loan young players to to get them experience. I’d love to agree but I saw nothing tonight to suggest any of the kids get near the first team. Edwards granted is the exception but he’s currently too error prone. And yes I know you could say the same about most of the 1st team.
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Post by doitforfrank on Dec 5, 2018 0:28:30 GMT
The centre halves need to have a good look at themselves. To not be able to outsprint the basically crippled Pope at their age does not bode well for their future.
I'd expect him to better them in the box and at balls in the air but he's slow as fuck and they could only keep up with him.
Academy I think is failing.
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Post by bhp on Dec 5, 2018 0:43:42 GMT
According to the EPPP (Elite Player Performance Programme) a Category 1 Academy cost approximately 2.5m to 4.9m per season. That was produced in 2012 so no doubt gone up. Based on that, not many Category 1 Academies make money from their products.
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boru
Academy Starlet
Posts: 213
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Post by boru on Dec 5, 2018 0:53:57 GMT
Need to bring back the central league
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