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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jan 17, 2020 9:46:22 GMT
Currently, those subject to the enquiry into the GMP, particularly Rochdale...but any of those in this tweet. That is a list of all those found guilty of raping young vulnerable girls. It doesn't say anything about the ethnicity of the victims, and why they were targeted - which is what you were talking about. As often is the case in our small exchanges, I'm pleased not to be in agreement with you. From the Augusta report...... Is there a common thread that links some or all of the case profiles examined, and if so can it be evidenced? 4 “Yes, all victims are young white females in the care of the local authority who display similar lifestyles and behaviour patterns to Victoria Agoglia. The perpetrators are almost exclusively Asian adult males many of whom are associated via the Asian restaurant trade.” Maggie Oliver..... “And don’t believe any of this rubbish that police have learned from their mistakes. I worked on an almost identical operation in 2004, Operation Augusta, which had identified dozens of young victims and dozens of suspects. It was a virtual carbon copy of Rochdale, men of largely Pakistani heritage were abusing vulnerable whitegirls, in Hulme, and around Rusholme. I was on that job for a year and a half. It was a huge investigation.
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Jan 17, 2020 10:20:20 GMT
That is a list of all those found guilty of raping young vulnerable girls. It doesn't say anything about the ethnicity of the victims, and why they were targeted - which is what you were talking about. As often is the case in our small exchanges, I'm pleased not to be in agreement with you. From the Augusta report...... Is there a common thread that links some or all of the case profiles examined, and if so can it be evidenced? 4 “Yes, all victims are young white females in the care of the local authority who display similar lifestyles and behaviour patterns to Victoria Agoglia. The perpetrators are almost exclusively Asian adult males many of whom are associated via the Asian restaurant trade.” Maggie Oliver..... “And don’t believe any of this rubbish that police have learned from their mistakes. I worked on an almost identical operation in 2004, Operation Augusta, which had identified dozens of young victims and dozens of suspects. It was a virtual carbon copy of Rochdale, men of largely Pakistani heritage were abusing vulnerable whitegirls, in Hulme, and around Rusholme. I was on that job for a year and a half. It was a huge investigation. Thanks, I wasn't aware of the Augusta report. I haven't been following the news so much recently. A couple of sentences from the findings from the 'live investigations' sections: "There are 134 victims across Greater Manchester identified as a result of the 49 live investigations that fall into this category. (Please note: this number does not include the number of victims from the Operation Green Jacket investigation and a Salford investigation where the number of victims is unknown at this stage). Among the known victims there are 68 white females, 10 black females and seven Asian females." "At this stage 57 suspects have not been identified. Of the 242 known suspects, 124 are Asian males, 66 are white males, 18 are black males and eight are white females. Of the 242 identified suspects, seven facilitated their offending through their occupation: two were teachers at the time of their offending, two were football coaches, one was a taxi driver, one was a social worker and one was involved in numerous children’s care homes." To date, this is the most detailed breakdown I have seen about the ethnicity of the victims and perpetrators. So at least in the Manchester area, we can speak of some generalisations: - Around 80% of the victims were white (68 of 84) - Around half of the suspects were Asian (124 of 242), which from past cases I believes would mean Pakistani or British-Pakistani although I have seen a small amount of Sikh names (which could also be of Pakistani heritage) from previous people found guilty (124 of 242). In balance, the term "predominantly Asian men" is used quite regularly in that report - so I suspect historically the percentage of perpetrators that were Asian/Pakistani/British-Pakistani would be considerably higher. In a previous report (by Quilliam Foundation) it said 84% were of Pakistani or British-Pakistani origin. On a separate note, the Augusta report looks like the first step in the right direction in terms of learning from the disgusting cases.
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Jan 17, 2020 10:43:20 GMT
"There are 134 victims across Greater Manchester identified as a result of the 49 live investigations that fall into this category. (Please note: this number does not include the number of victims from the Operation Green Jacket investigation and a Salford investigation where the number of victims is unknown at this stage). Among the known victims there are 68 white females, 10 black females and seven Asian females."- Around half of the victims were white (68 of 134) Nope. Of the known victims 68 out of 85 were white. An overwhelming majority. "At this stage 57 suspects have not been identified. Of the 242 known suspects, 124 are Asian males, 66 are white males, 18 are black males and eight are white females. - Around half of the suspects were Asian (124 of 242), Nope. Of the numbers given 124 out of 216 are "Asian" again a large majority. (And we all know what "Asian" means.) And lets not forgot here that "Asians" make up a small number of the overall population, so they're massively over-represented. I find it rather odd how you constantly keep trying to fudge the numbers, downplaying both the number of "Asian" abusers & the number of white victims.
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Post by Eggybread on Jan 17, 2020 10:57:36 GMT
I think after 4 pages we have established that there is an issue. Can we move on now to what happens next and how do we solve the problem.
Just fucking them off is not an option just for starters.
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Jan 17, 2020 11:23:24 GMT
"There are 134 victims across Greater Manchester identified as a result of the 49 live investigations that fall into this category. (Please note: this number does not include the number of victims from the Operation Green Jacket investigation and a Salford investigation where the number of victims is unknown at this stage). Among the known victims there are 68 white females, 10 black females and seven Asian females."- Around half of the victims were white (68 of 134) Nope. Of the known victims 68 out of 85 were white. An overwhelming majority. "At this stage 57 suspects have not been identified. Of the 242 known suspects, 124 are Asian males, 66 are white males, 18 are black males and eight are white females. - Around half of the suspects were Asian (124 of 242), Nope. Of the numbers given 124 out of 216 are "Asian" again a large majority. (And we all know what "Asian" means.) And lets not forgot here that "Asians" make up a small number of the overall population, so they're massively over-represented. I find it rather odd how you constantly keep trying to fudge the numbers, downplaying both the number of "Asian" abusers & the number of white victims. Good point about it being the known victims. So around 80% of the known victims were white. Thanks for the correction - I will change it in my original post. As I've written in the post you have quoted, I said the likely number of Asian (in the words of the report) offenders is more like around 84% (it was the Quilliam Foundation that did the research, not Hope Not Hate as I previously said: www.quilliaminternational.com/shop/e-publications/group-based-child-sexual-exploitation-dissecting-grooming-gangs/). So in terms of downplaying the numbers of Asian abusers, I have actually 'up-played' them in terms of the figures in the report BJR posted. The figures from the report either said 51% (124 of 242) as I've quoted, or 57% (124 of 216) - not entirely sure where you got 216 from but it's a big report so I'll take your word for it that it's in there.
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Jan 17, 2020 11:35:09 GMT
not entirely sure where you got 216 from but it's a big report so I'll take your word for it that it's in there. "124 are Asian males, 66 are white males, 18 are black males and eight are white females"124 + 66 + 18 + 8 = 216
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Post by dutchstokie on Jan 17, 2020 12:24:16 GMT
I think after 4 pages we have established that there is an issue. Can we move on now to what happens next and how do we solve the problem. Just fucking them off is not an option just for starters. Again, the authorities pussy foot around and 'follow protocols' whilst vulnerable children are abused. Again, why oh why doesnt anyone stand up and champion bringing back the death penalty - and I'm 100% serious about this. I would happily be that person to pull the trigger personally. The amount of technology and evidence that can and has been gathered on these such cases surely warrants some sort of change in the law in terms of abuse to minors. As a side note, the Dutch are currently discussing right now the change in the law of 'life means life'...and none of this '30 years in prison and let out after 20 for "good behaviour" Just shoot em for fucks sake !!!!!.
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Post by Eggybread on Jan 17, 2020 12:31:13 GMT
I think after 4 pages we have established that there is an issue. Can we move on now to what happens next and how do we solve the problem. Just fucking them off is not an option just for starters. Again, the authorities pussy foot around and 'follow protocols' whilst vulnerable children are abused. Again, why oh why doesnt anyone stand up and champion bringing back the death penalty - and I'm 100% serious about this. I would happily be that person to pull the trigger personally. The amount of technology and evidence that can and has been gathered on these such cases surely warrants some sort of change in the law in terms of abuse to minors. As a side note, the Dutch are currently discussing right now the change in the law of 'life means life'...and none of this '30 years in prison and let out after 20 for "good behaviour" Just shoot em for fucks sake !!!!!. Deary me. I have one question though.I thought life meant life in Holland? The only country in Europe if my memory is correct.
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Post by dutchstokie on Jan 17, 2020 12:49:27 GMT
Again, the authorities pussy foot around and 'follow protocols' whilst vulnerable children are abused. Again, why oh why doesnt anyone stand up and champion bringing back the death penalty - and I'm 100% serious about this. I would happily be that person to pull the trigger personally. The amount of technology and evidence that can and has been gathered on these such cases surely warrants some sort of change in the law in terms of abuse to minors. As a side note, the Dutch are currently discussing right now the change in the law of 'life means life'...and none of this '30 years in prison and let out after 20 for "good behaviour" Just shoot em for fucks sake !!!!!. Deary me. I have one question though.I thought life meant life in Holland? The only country in Europe if my memory is correct. Im no lawyer fella, but as I understand it they dont: They DO have a policy of re-habilitation after a certain period of time, where they send convicted people of serious crimes to "TBS" clinics TBS = terbeschikkingstelling klinieks or 'Prevention Crime Clinics In a sentence, its a heavily guarded facility where patients intergrate back into society under VERY strict supervision and have day passes increased over time. I used to live 2 streets away to one of these and everyone was up in arms about bringing the prices of the houses down due to the close proximity. I said to the neighbourhood watch leaders at a meeting that they were thick fucks ( in dutch of course ) and it is one of the safest neighbourhoods going due to the security cameras and patrols, so no chance of burglary or vehicle theft, and the like. They soon changed their tune !! The change in law being lobbied is that once patients have been out then they literally assault the guard with them and leg it.....going to commit the same crimes as before due to the behavioural patterns they followed in the previous crimes. Ive seen them myself where the guide has a big steel hoop around their waist with a steel bar between them and the patient, and then a double ringed hoop around the patient walking through shopping centres. How they escape in broad daylight escapes me but its happened a number of times, hence the current debate. Hope this sheds some light on your question fella
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Jan 17, 2020 13:02:22 GMT
not entirely sure where you got 216 from but it's a big report so I'll take your word for it that it's in there. "124 are Asian males, 66 are white males, 18 are black males and eight are white females"124 + 66 + 18 + 8 = 216 Good spot. Lets go with the smaller number then, as I don't want to be accused of playing down anything. So 57% are Asian according to the report. As you say, a large figure given the Asian population in the area.
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Post by Eggybread on Jan 17, 2020 13:08:42 GMT
Deary me. I have one question though.I thought life meant life in Holland? The only country in Europe if my memory is correct. Im no lawyer fella, but as I understand it they dont: They DO have a policy of re-habilitation after a certain period of time, where they send convicted people of serious crimes to "TBS" clinics TBS = terbeschikkingstelling klinieks or 'Prevention Crime Clinics In a sentence, its a heavily guarded facility where patients intergrate back into society under VERY strict supervision and have day passes increased over time. I used to live 2 streets away to one of these and everyone was up in arms about bringing the prices of the houses down due to the close proximity. I said to the neighbourhood watch leaders at a meeting that they were thick fucks ( in dutch of course ) and it is one of the safest neighbourhoods going due to the security cameras and patrols, so no chance of burglary or vehicle theft, and the like. They soon changed their tune !! The change in law being lobbied is that once patients have been out then they literally assault the guard with them and leg it.....going to commit the same crimes as before due to the behavioural patterns they followed in the previous crimes. Ive seen them myself where the guide has a big steel hoop around their waist with a steel bar between them and the patient, and then a double ringed hoop around the patient walking through shopping centres. How they escape in broad daylight escapes me but its happened a number of times, hence the current debate. Hope this sheds some light on your question fella Wheres there's a will there's a way. It does mean life since 1941, 41 have been given a life sentence.Seems low en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_(Dutch_law)
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Post by crapslinger on Jan 17, 2020 15:38:15 GMT
I think after 4 pages we have established that there is an issue. Can we move on now to what happens next and how do we solve the problem. Just fucking them off is not an option just for starters. Again, the authorities pussy foot around and 'follow protocols' whilst vulnerable children are abused. Again, why oh why doesnt anyone stand up and champion bringing back the death penalty - and I'm 100% serious about this. I would happily be that person to pull the trigger personally. The amount of technology and evidence that can and has been gathered on these such cases surely warrants some sort of change in the law in terms of abuse to minors. As a side note, the Dutch are currently discussing right now the change in the law of 'life means life'...and none of this '30 years in prison and let out after 20 for "good behaviour" Just shoot em for fucks sake !!!!!. Castrate them then brand or tattoo them with a P on the cheek so they can be recognised for the rest of their existence, what get's me is why it takes 10 fcuking years to bring them to court despite evidence already at hand
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jan 17, 2020 15:59:16 GMT
Again, the authorities pussy foot around and 'follow protocols' whilst vulnerable children are abused. Again, why oh why doesnt anyone stand up and champion bringing back the death penalty - and I'm 100% serious about this. I would happily be that person to pull the trigger personally. The amount of technology and evidence that can and has been gathered on these such cases surely warrants some sort of change in the law in terms of abuse to minors. As a side note, the Dutch are currently discussing right now the change in the law of 'life means life'...and none of this '30 years in prison and let out after 20 for "good behaviour" Just shoot em for fucks sake !!!!!. Castrate them then brand or tattoo them with a P on the cheek so they can be recognised for the rest of their existence, what get's me is why it takes 10 fcuking years to bring them to court despite evidence already at hand If it comes your way Crap would you accept the job of Prime Minister or would it have to be Dictator?
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Post by hoffgreen on Jan 17, 2020 18:35:46 GMT
By the way the mayor of Londons family came to Britain from Pakistan in the late 60s and promptly had 8 kids.
What we're seeing over the last 50yrs is mass migration into Britain that will eventually make indigenous Britons a minority in our own homeland.
Diversity is our strength though heh ...
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Post by dutchstokie on Jan 21, 2020 10:37:00 GMT
Im no lawyer fella, but as I understand it they dont: They DO have a policy of re-habilitation after a certain period of time, where they send convicted people of serious crimes to "TBS" clinics TBS = terbeschikkingstelling klinieks or 'Prevention Crime Clinics In a sentence, its a heavily guarded facility where patients intergrate back into society under VERY strict supervision and have day passes increased over time. I used to live 2 streets away to one of these and everyone was up in arms about bringing the prices of the houses down due to the close proximity. I said to the neighbourhood watch leaders at a meeting that they were thick fucks ( in dutch of course ) and it is one of the safest neighbourhoods going due to the security cameras and patrols, so no chance of burglary or vehicle theft, and the like. They soon changed their tune !! The change in law being lobbied is that once patients have been out then they literally assault the guard with them and leg it.....going to commit the same crimes as before due to the behavioural patterns they followed in the previous crimes. Ive seen them myself where the guide has a big steel hoop around their waist with a steel bar between them and the patient, and then a double ringed hoop around the patient walking through shopping centres. How they escape in broad daylight escapes me but its happened a number of times, hence the current debate. Hope this sheds some light on your question fella Wheres there's a will there's a way. It does mean life since 1941, 41 have been given a life sentence.Seems low en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_(Dutch_law) www.theguardian.com/world/2019/dec/12/why-are-there-so-few-prisoners-in-the-netherlandsIm not sure when this article was published but it gives a much clearer insight into the TBS clinics we have over here if you want to know more.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on May 21, 2020 17:58:32 GMT
There still seems to be a problem here. There is a big difference between legal and illegal immigration. Does this mean that anyone can come into the country?
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Post by mrcoke on Aug 29, 2021 16:56:27 GMT
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Aug 29, 2021 17:00:09 GMT
Someone needs to pick fruit and drive trucks
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Aug 29, 2021 17:04:26 GMT
Someone needs to pick fruit and drive trucks Drive trucks? How many asylum seekers are going to drive trucks? I’d guess at zero.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Aug 29, 2021 17:09:56 GMT
Someone needs to pick fruit and drive trucks Drive trucks? How many asylum seekers are going to drive trucks? I’d guess at zero. Give them a chance to learn, sure they'll jump at it...
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Aug 29, 2021 17:16:31 GMT
Drive trucks? How many asylum seekers are going to drive trucks? I’d guess at zero. Give them a chance to learn, sure they'll jump at it... Presumably you’re joking, hope you are anyway
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on Aug 29, 2021 17:45:20 GMT
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Post by prestwichpotter on Sept 17, 2021 8:46:30 GMT
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Post by partickpotter on Sept 17, 2021 11:31:36 GMT
As ever, some selective quotation that misrepresents what he is saying. He referred to deporting “foreign national criminals” and “illegal economic migrants… very much quicker than they are now”. Seems fair enough to me. Or do you think we shouldn’t deport “foreign national criminals” and “illegal economic migrants”.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Sept 17, 2021 12:28:16 GMT
As ever, some selective quotation that misrepresents what he is saying. He referred to deporting “foreign national criminals” and “illegal economic migrants… very much quicker than they are now”. Seems fair enough to me. Or do you think we shouldn’t deport “foreign national criminals” and “illegal economic migrants”. What's been stopping us deporting “foreign national criminals” and “illegal economic migrants” to date though? The only "delay" is the appeals process which is surely part of the fabric of any judicial ruling. Is that how we intend to speed things up now we're free from the EU? These are genuine questions by the way as I haven't read enough about how we intend to change current laws that are in place as part of our previous membership.....
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Post by partickpotter on Sept 17, 2021 13:18:44 GMT
As ever, some selective quotation that misrepresents what he is saying. He referred to deporting “foreign national criminals” and “illegal economic migrants… very much quicker than they are now”. Seems fair enough to me. Or do you think we shouldn’t deport “foreign national criminals” and “illegal economic migrants”. What's been stopping us deporting “foreign national criminals” and “illegal economic migrants” to date though? The only "delay" is the appeals process which is surely part of the fabric of any judicial ruling. Is that how we intend to speed things up now we're free from the EU? These are genuine questions by the way as I haven't read enough about how we intend to change current laws that are in place as part of our previous membership..... I don’t know. And I understand that your questions are genuine. They are good ones too. Framing the debate, as in the tweet, by disingenuously misrepresenting what has been said does nothing to take this forward. It’s purpose is cheap, trite political point scoring. What it does is stifle important and difficult questions. It would be far better if the person had asked the questions you have asked challenging that MP to provide what evidence he has to support the statement he has made. Because of course, he could well be indulging in some cheap, trite political point scoring of his own.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Sept 17, 2021 13:26:47 GMT
What's been stopping us deporting “foreign national criminals” and “illegal economic migrants” to date though? The only "delay" is the appeals process which is surely part of the fabric of any judicial ruling. Is that how we intend to speed things up now we're free from the EU? These are genuine questions by the way as I haven't read enough about how we intend to change current laws that are in place as part of our previous membership..... I don’t know. And I understand that your questions are genuine. They are good ones too. Framing the debate, as in the tweet, by disingenuously misrepresenting what has been said does nothing to take this forward. It’s purpose is cheap, trite political point scoring. What it does is stifle important and difficult questions. It would be far better if the person had asked the questions you have asked challenging that MP to provide what evidence he has to support the statement he has made. Because of course, he could well be indulging in some cheap, trite political point scoring of his own. I'll be honest I posted for the comments from the local MP rather than the person who tweeted but reading it back I take your point. But people have their own eyes, ears and minds so not sure it stifles debate, if we looked for "balance" in everything single we posted not sure there would be much activity on this board.......
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