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Post by felonious on Jun 28, 2018 5:47:35 GMT
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Post by Northy on Jun 28, 2018 5:57:49 GMT
I mentioned before, When I was going from Denmark to Sweden recently they now have a border control, no Schengen there.
There will be splits growing especially from the eastern bloc countries
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2018 6:14:45 GMT
I think the damage has already been done with so many migrants flooding across Europe and the countries are now belatedly saying "enough is enough". More and more countries now appear to be openly turning against accepting migrants and there does indeed seem to be a large split developing. Even Merkel looks like she's in big trouble in Germany over her open door policy. We were on holiday in Crete 2 years ago and met some Germans from near Stuttgart and they said at the time that many Germans saw the migrants as a major problem, and a hell of a lot of resentment was growing, and they thought Merkel was risking her political career by keeping accepting them.
If the migrants are still going to keep on coming and Italy, Greece, and numerous others refuse to take them where will they end up ?
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Post by Dutchpeter on Jun 28, 2018 8:12:30 GMT
Maybe psychologically Germany as a nation needed to make a big gesture of compassion, after their chequered 20 th century history.
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Post by crapslinger on Jun 28, 2018 11:18:44 GMT
Maybe psychologically Germany as a nation needed to make a big gesture of compassion, after their chequered 20 th century history. Their guilt trip is fucking up the whole of Western Europe.
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Post by wagsastokie on Jun 28, 2018 11:24:35 GMT
Maybe psychologically Germany as a nation needed to make a big gesture of compassion, after their chequered 20 th century history. You’re probably right So when do the yanks show compassion
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2018 11:26:17 GMT
If you neighbour wants to move in with you because his house is shit, surely you help him fix his house not adopt him for life.
That's where the problem lies for me the lack of will to make their countries better, it has to be the long term solution otherwise they will just become a migrant breading ground. Which is unsustainable.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jun 28, 2018 11:37:13 GMT
Maybe psychologically Germany as a nation needed to make a big gesture of compassion, after their chequered 20 th century history. Similar to our Post Empire/Colonial ( white?) guilt?
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Post by wagsastokie on Jun 28, 2018 12:55:21 GMT
Maybe psychologically Germany as a nation needed to make a big gesture of compassion, after their chequered 20 th century history. Similar to our Post Empire/Colonial ( white?) guilt? Less of the our I feel no guilt what so ever Just a touch of sorrow we gave it up
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Post by crapslinger on Jun 28, 2018 14:13:21 GMT
Similar to our Post Empire/Colonial ( white?) guilt? Less of the our I feel no guilt what so ever Just a touch of sorrow we gave it up We will be apologising to the Germans for twatting them in two world wars next.
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Post by wagsastokie on Jun 28, 2018 14:17:56 GMT
Less of the our I feel no guilt what so ever Just a touch of sorrow we gave it up We will be apologising to the Germans for twatting them in two world wars next. And one World Cup
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Post by crapslinger on Jun 28, 2018 14:20:05 GMT
We will be apologising to the Germans for twatting them in two world wars next. And one World Cup Plus the loss of the ten German bombers that are no longer in the air.
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Post by harryburrows on Jun 28, 2018 16:38:17 GMT
If you neighbour wants to move in with you because his house is shit, surely you help him fix his house not adopt him for life. That's where the problem lies for me the lack of will to make their countries batter, it has to be the long term solution otherwise they will just become a migrant breading ground. Which is unsustainable. Their countries were fine before the USA , Britain , Russia etc started to interfere
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2018 20:13:41 GMT
If you neighbour wants to move in with you because his house is shit, surely you help him fix his house not adopt him for life. That's where the problem lies for me the lack of will to make their countries batter, it has to be the long term solution otherwise they will just become a migrant breading ground. Which is unsustainable. Their countries were fine before the USA , Britain , Russia etc started to interfere Then we have a responsibility to fix them.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2018 20:29:38 GMT
I think the damage has already been done with so many migrants flooding across Europe and the countries are now belatedly saying "enough is enough". More and more countries now appear to be openly turning against accepting migrants and there does indeed seem to be a large split developing. Even Merkel looks like she's in big trouble in Germany over her open door policy. We were on holiday in Crete 2 years ago and met some Germans from near Stuttgart and they said at the time that many Germans saw the migrants as a major problem, and a hell of a lot of resentment was growing, and they thought Merkel was risking her political career by keeping accepting them. If the migrants are still going to keep on coming and Italy, Greece, and numerous others refuse to take them where will they end up ? What nationality to the immigrants become in 5 years time? Merkel et al seriously expect people to believe an undocumented, unvetted migrant from Iraq is now German? That doesn't wash with me.
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Post by musik on Jun 28, 2018 23:37:57 GMT
If the migrants are still going to keep on coming and Italy, Greece, and numerous others refuse to take them where will they end up Well ... Sweden can't take a further single individual, that's for sure! Germany and Sweden have welcomed most migrants, in relative figures (%) of all countries in Europe. This simply had to end sometime! And it's not just a question of numbers. We should have asked ourselves: WHO are they? Why have the thrown their pass ports away? What do they flee from? What have they done to their regimes? Or are really ALL of them poor people escaping war? Did you know Sweden have the highest concentration of extreme elements in the world now? Our population has increased from 8+ Million to 10+ Million, in a rather short time, and just a tiny percentage of them are swedes. We have NEVER in modern time had such a great flow of Swedish migrants moving FROM Sweden as now! ALL political parties agreed on that STOP here in Sweden recently, even the communist party V and the farmer's party C (even though the latter one wanted to welcome another 25 million(!!!) migrants not long ago). Once being a top 3 or top 5 country in the world when it comes to wealth and welfare, Sweden has droped like a stone to 36 - just in Europe. There are eastern Europe, Baltikum and Balkan countries better off than us now. I personally have had conversations on several occasions with foreigners who has come here and got in a chock state(!), since they've believed Sweden was like Paradise. "If I'd knew how it was here, we would NEVER had come, it's even worse than from where we come from!!", many have told me. They had no idea it took many years to find a flat to rent, they also thought they could go to some place (authority?) and ask for money, and just get it! What a joke! Well, partly they're right, only refugees and immigrants can't get any help here now, they are given the very new flats built. They're always ahead in the queue system for some reason. They get some sort of establishing money, if they start a company, the swedes can't get that so easily at all. That's why the SD national party rises each month and probably will be the highest party in early September, 25-30% or so. It doesn't help that most of the other parties have copied SD's migrations policy now. It's too late for them, it seems. It's gone too far. The pension system are also said to be a joke here within 10 years, with all the money gone!! I have no idea what I will live on. Just 10 years ago, Sweden had the BEST pension system in the world, without doubt. Now it's worth dog shit. My brother will leave, for Portugal. My other brother might head for Canada. Myself thinking of France, USA (relatives there) or The Philippines (met an old friend who said it's like Paradise there now, with the fastest sinking criminality numbers in the world).
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2018 23:57:24 GMT
If the migrants are still going to keep on coming and Italy, Greece, and numerous others refuse to take them where will they end up Well ... Sweden can't take a further single individual, that's for sure! Germany and Sweden have welcomed most migrants, in relative figures (%) of all countries in Europe. This simply had to end sometime! And it's not just a question of numbers. We should have asked ourselves: WHO are they? Why have the thrown their pass ports away? What are they flewing from? What have they done to their regimes? Or are really ALL of them poor people escaping war? Did you know Sweden have the highest concentration of extreme elements in the world now? Our population has increased from 8+ Million to 10+ Million, in a rather short time, and just a tiny percentage of them are swedes. We have NEVER in modern time had such a great flow of Swedish migrants moving FROM Sweden as now! ALL political parties agreed on that STOP here in Sweden recently, even the communist party V and the farmer's party C (even though the latter one wanted to welcome another 25 million(!!!) migrants not long ago). Once being a top 3 or top 5 country in the world when it comes to wealth and welfare, Sweden has droped like a stone to 36 - just in Europe. There are eastern Europe, Baltikum and Balkan countries better off than us now. I personally have had conversations on several occasions with foreigners who has come here and got in a chock state(!), since they've believed Sweden was like Paradise. "If I'd knew how it was here, we would NEVER had come, it's even worse than from where we come from!!", many have told me. They had no idea it took many years to find a flat to rent, they also thought they could go to some place (authority?) and ask for money, and just get it! What a joke! Well, partly they're right, only fugitives and immigrants can't get any help here now, they are given the very new flats built. They're always ahead in the queue system for some reason. They get some sort of establishing money, if they start a company, the swedes can't get that so easily at all. That's why the SD national party rises each month and probably will be the highest party in early September, 25-30% or so. It doesn't help that most of the other parties have copied SD's migrations policy now. It's too late for them, it seems. It's gone too far. The pension system are also said to be a joke here within 10 years, with all the money gone!! I have no idea what I will live on. Just 10 years ago, Sweden had the BEST pension system in the world, without doubt. Now it's worth dog shit. My brother will leave, for Portugal. My other brother might head for Canada. Myself thinking of France, USA (relatives there) or The Phillipeans (met an old friend who said it's like Paradise there now, with the fastest sinking criminality numbers in the world). Sorry to hear things have become so bad in Sweden Musik ! It really does seem too late now to try to do anything to improve the situation. The migrants have arrived and it's seemingly impossible to change things back and improve the situation. What a disaster ! And many governments just opened the door to these tens of thousands of people - well we're all seeing the consequences now !
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Post by musik on Jun 29, 2018 0:40:03 GMT
Sorry to hear things have become so bad in Sweden Musik ! It really does seem too late now to try to do anything to improve the situation. The migrants have arrived and it's seemingly impossible to change things back and improve the situation. What a disaster ! And many governments just opened the door to these tens of thousands of people - well we're all seeing the consequences now ! Well, in Sweden they must have a better way to send criminals and also ordinary refugees that are not allowed to stay and shall be expelled, back. Now, if someone commits a serious crime and are told to be expelled after his/her time in jail, that person only escapes here. Hiding somewhere. A policeman on tv recently said, they estimate 100.000 people are hiding in the northern parts of Sweden. Agreements between countries should also be better written. For instance them w "certain countries" are often dreadful. If the nation don't want them back, there's nothing Sweden can do. Another thing: outside EVERY food store here (the small ones as well as the supermarkets) people are begging for money. Is it like that in England also nowadays? I feel sad for them, coming here of all places, thinking of it as "Paradise" (or like it was in 1970-2000). They have to alter and lower their expectations enormously! Most of them obviously honest people.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2018 5:14:42 GMT
In the area where I live we don't have too many people begging and the few that we do have are not usually by supermarkets. The beggars do not appear to be migrants, but usually seem to be British. One strange thing is that the beggars usually all somehow have quite a healthy looking, well fed dog with them. Goodness knows how they can afford to feed the dog so well when they're begging for money themselves. Is it the same in Sweden ?
There is an area in the nearest town to me where a growing number of people who appear to be migrants (well they look Eastern European - mainly Romanian or similar, and others I don't know what nationality ), and whenever we have to drive through the area at any time of day we see quite a lot of these men just standing around in several groups of 4 or 5 either smoking or with cans of beer, with obviously no job as we see the same men time after time. We also have quite a large number of Polish migrants but they do seem to be hard working.
There are other detrimental effects of this increase in migrants having on our schools (number of school places), the NHS, housing shortage, and so on. Some people say it's due to underfunding, some say it's due to immigration with large numbers of migrants overloading the system to breaking point.
I'm not sure currently what our overall record on deportation of criminals or illegals is like in the U.K. but there are often news stories about the system being an absolute shambles.
I appreciate your feelings of sadness for the majority of these migrants, but if you compare the Swedish way of life 10 or 20 years ago before all the migrants arrived, no doubt it has also changed quite noticeably, and no doubt much for the worse as you describe.
It's all too late I'm afraid, and I can't see it improving any time soon.
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Post by Northy on Jun 29, 2018 5:24:15 GMT
If you neighbour wants to move in with you because his house is shit, surely you help him fix his house not adopt him for life. That's where the problem lies for me the lack of will to make their countries better, it has to be the long term solution otherwise they will just become a migrant breading ground. Which is unsustainable. Trouble is if you do assist them, When you leave most of them are just corrupt and let it go again. Look at how the ANC are holding South Africa back, Zimbabwe, Sudan, Egypt etc.
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Post by harryburrows on Jun 29, 2018 5:29:07 GMT
Their countries were fine before the USA , Britain , Russia etc started to interfere Then we have a responsibility to fix them. Pronblem being that a lot of migrants are not from war zones , they are mostly economic migrants from , Pakistan , Nigeria , etc
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Post by felonious on Jun 29, 2018 5:49:49 GMT
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Post by musik on Jun 29, 2018 9:29:07 GMT
In the area where I live we don't have too many people begging and the few that we do have are not usually by supermarkets. The beggars do not appear to be migrants, but usually seem to be British. One strange thing is that the beggars usually all somehow have quite a healthy looking, well fed dog with them. Goodness knows how they can afford to feed the dog so well when they're begging for money themselves. Is it the same in Sweden ? There is an area in the nearest town to me where a growing number of people who appear to be migrants (well they look Eastern European - mainly Romanian or similar, and others I don't know what nationality ), and whenever we have to drive through the area at any time of day we see quite a lot of these men just standing around in several groups of 4 or 5 either smoking or with cans of beer, with obviously no job as we see the same men time after time. We also have quite a large number of Polish migrants but they do seem to be hard working. There are other detrimental effects of this increase in migrants having on our schools (number of school places), the NHS, housing shortage, and so on. In Sweden we now have the beggars apparently outside every food store (no matter what size), in every street, in every smaller town and bigger city there is. It has spread: "the swedes are as stupid as fuck, they give money away voluntarily and think it will help the situation for us permanently - so do come here". They come from Romania most of them and are Piss poor. When asked about their own welfare system on tv: they laughed and said "What welfare system?" and their ordinary pension level is 800 sek=£75 per month, one said. Here we have a local problem w garbage, since they on their daily routine are looking through the garbage put in the huge containers. I don't know how they manage it, but they manage to pull the plastic bags (or part of the content) through the narrow openings of the containers we have here. They drop it on the ground and perhaps there is a half roten banana to eat sometimes if they're lucky. But. When they leave on their daily routine, the seagulls appear. And they fly around and fight for the garbage and drop it here and there all over the parking lot. With them car owners having to wash their vehicles all the time. Actually, I haven't seen a single one(!) of all those thousands of beggars I've seen owning a dog. Some do have mobile phones though, and there are reports some have card readers as well - suitable item if you don't have any coins. I have not seen it myself, I wonder if it's true, but if so: it should be extremely rare! In any case, in every part of life, I've always tried to change perspective and tried to see things from the other person's point of view. But one day several years ago, I actually got mad. I went to a big mall out west here, when a foreign man approached me and said he was raising money for a good cause. But then he said "You don't have to give much, just 500 sek will do (£50)". I just laughed at him, 500 sek is half my monthly budget for food and drink, for Heaven's sake! I was prepared for like 5 sek (£0.5). And three days ago three foreign lady persons with them paper mugs, working in groups, tried to mug me. How the hell would they do that? I'm always prepared ...
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Post by musik on Jun 29, 2018 9:46:09 GMT
they look Eastern European - mainly Romanian or similar, and others I don't know what nationality ), and whenever we have to drive through the area at any time of day we see quite a lot of these men just standing around in several groups of 4 or 5 either smoking or with cans of beer, with obviously no job as we see the same men time after time. We also have quite a large number of Polish migrants but they do seem to be hard working. We have to separate refugees from war, from people on a begging tour to other countries. A job? Are you kidding me? Most of them here aren't interested in Sweden. They have no intention whatsoever to get a job, become swedes etc. And what kind of job could they do? They don't pay anything for using the trams, ferries and buses either. I've always wondered why they never have to pay. I have always wondered how anyone - at any age - can be visiting any country without a correct ID.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2018 10:05:21 GMT
they look Eastern European - mainly Romanian or similar, and others I don't know what nationality ), and whenever we have to drive through the area at any time of day we see quite a lot of these men just standing around in several groups of 4 or 5 either smoking or with cans of beer, with obviously no job as we see the same men time after time. We also have quite a large number of Polish migrants but they do seem to be hard working. We have to separate refugees from war, from people on a begging tour to other countries. A job? Are you kidding me? Most of them here aren't interested in Sweden. They have no intention whatsoever to get a job, become swedes etc. And what kind of job could they do? They don't pay anything for using the trams, ferries and buses either. I've always wondered why they never have to pay. I have always wondered how anyone - at any age - can be visiting any country without a correct ID. This sounds very similar to the U.K. in my experience - it's shit isn't it !
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2018 10:31:35 GMT
If you neighbour wants to move in with you because his house is shit, surely you help him fix his house not adopt him for life. That's where the problem lies for me the lack of will to make their countries better, it has to be the long term solution otherwise they will just become a migrant breading ground. Which is unsustainable. Trouble is if you do assist them, When you leave most of them are just corrupt and let it go again. Look at how the ANC are holding South Africa back, Zimbabwe, Sudan, Egypt etc. I know this is a thing in my imagination but isn't it the job of the UN to stop all wars? Are you suggesting that the UN has been derelict in it's duty and is not fit for purpose. "Role of the Security Council. The Security Council has primary responsibility, under the United Nations Charter, for the maintenance of international peace and security. It is for the Security Council to determine when and where a UN Peacekeeping operation should be deployed."
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Post by musik on Jun 29, 2018 10:37:15 GMT
We have to separate refugees from war, from people on a begging tour to other countries. A job? Are you kidding me? Most of them here aren't interested in Sweden. They have no intention whatsoever to get a job, become swedes etc. And what kind of job could they do? They don't pay anything for using the trams, ferries and buses either. I've always wondered why they never have to pay. I have always wondered how anyone - at any age - can be visiting any country without a correct ID. This sounds very similar to the U.K. in my experience - it's shit isn't it ! Yes, it's tragic. And what if I had been from one of those piss poor countries in the eastern Europe or any other country elsewhere around the globe, without a welfare system worth mentioning - what would I have done? And if I had no education. Probably the same. Or ... perhaps, tried to learn English (and Swedish) real hard!! Nowadays there are really great resources if you think of it, with all these libraries, the internet and dvd:s to borrow/listen to at the libraries here. I suppose I would have tried that every single day. Tried to get a job as an interpreter after a year or two. We have a huge demand. Or a reporter of some kind. Or a teacher. Problem is, some of them can't even spell in their own language. A good start for them would be to apply for a residence permit, but knowing jobs are few ...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2018 11:10:56 GMT
Climate change is going to massively increase the numbers of refugees in the future. Hopefully, technological advancements in the food industry can help to negate the worst effects on the most unfortunate of people. One thing seems clear to me though, a growing human population on a planet that is becoming less fertile is going to lead to a lot more abject misery in the near future.
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Post by followyoudown on Jun 29, 2018 11:59:22 GMT
They think it is bad now wait until 17 odd million remoaners are heading their way (wave)
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Post by felonious on Jun 29, 2018 12:59:52 GMT
They think it is bad now wait until 17 odd million remoaners are heading their way (wave) I'd happily swap them for 17 million refugees and economic migrants
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