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Post by estp1863 on Jan 3, 2018 9:36:25 GMT
Trust me you really don't want or need that pair of clowns ! Unless you want your club to implode and self destruct with the fall out taking years to erase Agreed. I don't get the enthusiasm for these pair at all! His budget at Villa was Champions League-sized at the time, and he blew it. He's done nothing worthwhile since his admittedly miracle job at Leicester. And as for Keane.... Blew it? He had them right up there they had never had it so good since Ron Atkinson? How did he blow it?
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Post by thegift on Jan 3, 2018 9:39:10 GMT
Trust me you really don't want or need that pair of clowns ! Unless you want your club to implode and self destruct with the fall out taking years to erase Agreed. I don't get the enthusiasm for these pair at all! His budget at Villa was Champions League-sized at the time, and he blew it. He's done nothing worthwhile since his admittedly miracle job at Leicester. And as for Keane.... Stop making shit up. He didn't blow it all. They were a top 6 team.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 3, 2018 9:41:35 GMT
Agreed. I don't get the enthusiasm for these pair at all! His budget at Villa was Champions League-sized at the time, and he blew it. He's done nothing worthwhile since his admittedly miracle job at Leicester. And as for Keane.... Blew it? He had them right up there they had never had it so good since Ron Atkinson? How did he blow it? Maybe the bloke who watches them every week might just have a more informed opinion?
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Post by estp1863 on Jan 3, 2018 9:44:59 GMT
Blew it? He had them right up there they had never had it so good since Ron Atkinson? How did he blow it? Maybe the bloke who watches them every week might just have a more informed opinion? Or an agenda. Facts are facts. They were right up there under O Neil. Lerner pulled the plug and asset stripped them.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2018 9:46:18 GMT
Agreed. I don't get the enthusiasm for these pair at all! His budget at Villa was Champions League-sized at the time, and he blew it. He's done nothing worthwhile since his admittedly miracle job at Leicester. And as for Keane.... Blew it? He had them right up there they had never had it so good since Ron Atkinson? How did he blow it? So, achieving 6th with Villa with a huge budget is deemed a success? Quick, someone check what Brian Little, John Gregory and David O’Leary are up to these days!
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Post by estp1863 on Jan 3, 2018 9:47:11 GMT
Blew it? He had them right up there they had never had it so good since Ron Atkinson? How did he blow it? So, achieving 6th with Villa with a huge budget is deemed a success? Quick, someone check what Brian Little, John Gregory and David O’Leary are up to these days! For a club like villa it was
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Post by FullerMagic on Jan 3, 2018 9:49:20 GMT
Agreed. I don't get the enthusiasm for these pair at all! His budget at Villa was Champions League-sized at the time, and he blew it. He's done nothing worthwhile since his admittedly miracle job at Leicester. And as for Keane.... Blew it? He had them right up there they had never had it so good since Ron Atkinson? How did he blow it? I just thought he did a par job...at best, given the resources he had in terms of fees and wages. It looks good when you look back through rose-tinted spectacles and judge it with where Villa are now - but the environment was very different back then. He went bonkers and that was before the era of routinely big spending across the league. And his scouting was lazy, buying pretty much solely British-based players at crazy money. www.avillafan.com/21804/the-myth-of-martin-oneill-and-what-could-have-been/
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Post by thanksjon on Jan 3, 2018 9:55:44 GMT
I'm in a dilemma here as an Irish Stokie I have seen close up what O Neill and Keane can do which is basically a well organized but hard to watch team,there is no doubt that many of our players need a good kick up the hole and short term these two would be capable of doing that.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2018 9:56:24 GMT
So, achieving 6th with Villa with a huge budget is deemed a success? Quick, someone check what Brian Little, John Gregory and David O’Leary are up to these days! For a club like villa it was 'For a club like Villa'? Not sure what you mean by that? Aren't they like, the 6th best performing English club in history? He also spent over £120m in his 4 years there, which was one hell of a lot by the standards of the day, and increased their wages to turnover ratio to something totally unsustainable. Again, he achieved nothing more at Villa than Brian Little did, and the same as those other notable managers David O'Leary and John Gregory. At least David O'Leary actually managed to get a team into the Champions League...
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 3, 2018 9:59:29 GMT
Maybe the bloke who watches them every week might just have a more informed opinion? Or an agenda. Facts are facts. They were right up there under O Neil. Lerner pulled the plug and asset stripped them. Facts without context are utterly meaningless. If he did so brilliantly there why would any Villa fan have any sort of axe to grind? Why aren’t there statues of the bloke and calls for him to come back whenever there’s a vacancy there? Maybe dig a little beneath the surface? He was backed enormously and frittered away that money to diminishing returns, which is why Lerner pulled the plug. The likes of Richard Dunne, Habib Beye, Zat Knight, Marlon Harewood, Nicky Shorey all hugely underperformed while they had a very strong academy MON completely ignored. Yes, he did very well at first but he was then given the funds to push on and he couldn’t. Teams and managers sussed out how he plays and they couldn’t break through that glass ceiling. He then left them with a bunch of expensive tat on big wages. Fine if you want to point to the top six and Europe, but you could point to promotions and cup final for Pulis and three ninth placed finishes for Hughes, but there’s a reason why one was sacked and the other will be.
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Post by staffsvilla on Jan 3, 2018 10:00:20 GMT
Trust me you really don't want or need that pair of clowns ! Unless you want your club to implode and self destruct with the fall out taking years to erase You're joking Right? O Neil delivered your club the best times you had known since ron Atkinson. Your problem was a tight arse chairman Randy Lerner not o Neil. Lerner was the root of your problems & your demise not o neil or keane. You want to try Mark Hughes on for size Why would I be joking ? Yours is a common 'outsiders' opinion (no disrespect intended) of the 'MON years' he well and truly dropped us in it the way he left like a spoiled brat and we suffered for years afterwards culminating in our pathetically bad relegation season !
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Post by estp1863 on Jan 3, 2018 10:01:46 GMT
For a club like villa it was 'For a club like Villa'? Not sure what you mean by that? Aren't they like, the 6th best performing English club in history? He also spent over £120m in his 4 years there, which was one hell of a lot by the standards of the day, and increased their wages to turnover ratio to something totally unsustainable. Again, he achieved nothing more at Villa than Brian Little did, and the same as those other notable managers David O'Leary and John Gregory. At least David O'Leary actually managed to get a team into the Champions League... A manager can only spend what the chairman allows him too, Lerner was the reason of their downfall. Read o Neil's Wikipedia page, if his villa stint is classed as a failure then I don't know what we are expecting? A miracle?
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Post by estp1863 on Jan 3, 2018 10:03:27 GMT
You're joking Right? O Neil delivered your club the best times you had known since ron Atkinson. Your problem was a tight arse chairman Randy Lerner not o Neil. Lerner was the root of your problems & your demise not o neil or keane. You want to try Mark Hughes on for size Why would I be joking ? Yours is a common 'outsiders' opinion (no disrespect intended) of the 'MON years' he well and truly dropped us in it the way he left like a spoiled brat and we suffered for years afterwards culminating in our pathetically bad relegation season ! He left because of Lerner and look what Lerner did from then on? If he couldn't sustain it he shouldn't have done it?
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Post by estp1863 on Jan 3, 2018 10:05:09 GMT
Blew it? He had them right up there they had never had it so good since Ron Atkinson? How did he blow it? I just thought he did a par job...at best, given the resources he had in terms of fees and wages. It looks good when you look back through rose-tinted spectacles and judge it with where Villa are now - but the environment was very different back then. He went bonkers and that was before the era of routinely big spending across the league. And his scouting was lazy, buying pretty much solely British-based players at crazy money. www.avillafan.com/21804/the-myth-of-martin-oneill-and-what-could-have-been/Soley British based players, I take that all day fm over the non interested rubbish from bigger things that has inflated our wage bill
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Post by staffsvilla on Jan 3, 2018 10:05:45 GMT
'For a club like Villa'? Not sure what you mean by that? Aren't they like, the 6th best performing English club in history? He also spent over £120m in his 4 years there, which was one hell of a lot by the standards of the day, and increased their wages to turnover ratio to something totally unsustainable. Again, he achieved nothing more at Villa than Brian Little did, and the same as those other notable managers David O'Leary and John Gregory. At least David O'Leary actually managed to get a team into the Champions League... A manager can only spend what the chairman allows him too, Lerner was the reason of their downfall. Read o Neil's Wikipedia page, if his villa stint is classed as a failure then I don't know what we are expecting? A miracle? I agree ultimately Lerner as the owner at the time must take the blame but MOM went over and above the call of duty to assist him !
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Post by staffsvilla on Jan 3, 2018 10:07:50 GMT
Why would I be joking ? Yours is a common 'outsiders' opinion (no disrespect intended) of the 'MON years' he well and truly dropped us in it the way he left like a spoiled brat and we suffered for years afterwards culminating in our pathetically bad relegation season ! He left because of Lerner and look what Lerner did from then on? If he couldn't sustain it he shouldn't have done it? Mate he left because he thought he could dictate to Lerner and when he got told no he threw his toys and Fucked off just days before the season started
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Post by estp1863 on Jan 3, 2018 10:09:06 GMT
A manager can only spend what the chairman allows him too, Lerner was the reason of their downfall. Read o Neil's Wikipedia page, if his villa stint is classed as a failure then I don't know what we are expecting? A miracle? I agree ultimately Lerner as the owner at the time must take the blame but MOM went over and above the call of duty to assist him ! O'Neill was introduced as the Aston Villa manager at a press conference on 4 August 2006. At the press conference he stated "It's absolutely fantastic to be back and with a club such as this. This is a fantastic challenge. I am well aware of the history of this football club. Trying to restore it to its days of former glory seems a long way away – but why not try? It is nearly 25 years since they won the European Cup but that is the dream."[38] Villa had the year's longest unbeaten start of any Premier League side in 2006–07 (9 games), not losing a league game until 28 October. Villa suffered a mid-season slump but recovered late in the season, winning their three away games in April, to end the season how it began with a run of 9 unbeaten fixtures. For this O'Neill scooped the Barclays Manager of the Month for April.[39] Villa's final points tally was 50,[40] an improvement of 8 over the previous season and finished 11th, 5 places higher than the previous season.[41] In October 2007, Aston Villa owner Randy Lerner said that he would not stop O'Neill from leaving Villa if he was offered the vacant post of England manager.[42] O'Neill later dismissed the reports, calling them "unfair speculation".[43] Aston Villa just missed out on a UEFA Cup spot on the final day of the 2007–08 season and qualified for the Intertoto Cup by finishing 6th. They scored 71 goals, (their best ever tally in the Premier League and best tally since winning the title in 1981), gained 60 points which was Villa's highest points tally since 1996–97, and were the third highest goalscorers.[44] After 25 games of the 2008–09 season, having qualified for the UEFA Cup as joint winners of the Intertoto Cup, the club were third in the table on 51 points, 2 points above Chelsea on level games and 7 points above Arsenal in 5th place and on course for a place in the Champions League for the first time since 1983. O'Neill decided to prioritise Champions League qualification above all else, fielding a virtual reserve side for a UEFA Cup game against CSKA Moscow which was subsequently lost.[45] Following this, Villa failed to win any of the next 10 league games and improving form for Arsenal & Chelsea meant that Villa failed to reach the top 4. At the start of the 2009–10 season Villa failed to qualify for the group stage of the newly named Europa League, but continued their progress in the league with wins against Manchester United, Chelsea and Liverpool.[46] Arsenal defeated Villa 3–0 at Emirates Stadium, and drew at home.[46] Once again Villa finished 6th for the 3rd season running, and once again improved their points tally finishing with 64 points; their poor home form (they drew 8 times at home) denied them a chance to qualify for the UEFA Champions League. Aston Villa reached their first final under Martin O'Neill, and first final in 10 years on 28 February 2010 against Manchester United in the League Cup, but lost 2–1.[47] On 9 August 2010, O'Neill resigned as manager of Aston Villa with immediate effect.[48] On his departure O'Neill said "I have enjoyed my time at Aston Villa immensely. It's obviously a wrench to be leaving such a magnificent club."[49] O'Neill was reportedly unhappy about the funds available for transfers,[50] but his departure just five days before the start of the new season still came as a shock to the club and its players.[50] Lerner issued a statement two days later saying he and O'Neill "no longer shared a common view as to how to move forward, but the two remain good friends."[51] If that is failure I'm staggered, really I am. If we expect better we're screwed.
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Post by estp1863 on Jan 3, 2018 10:10:06 GMT
He left because of Lerner and look what Lerner did from then on? If he couldn't sustain it he shouldn't have done it? Mate he left because he thought he could dictate to Lerner and when he got told no he threw his toys and Fucked off just days before the season started Exactly, but look what happened after, Lerner asset stripped you and the spiral began. O Neil didn't do it?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2018 10:12:37 GMT
'For a club like Villa'? Not sure what you mean by that? Aren't they like, the 6th best performing English club in history? He also spent over £120m in his 4 years there, which was one hell of a lot by the standards of the day, and increased their wages to turnover ratio to something totally unsustainable. Again, he achieved nothing more at Villa than Brian Little did, and the same as those other notable managers David O'Leary and John Gregory. At least David O'Leary actually managed to get a team into the Champions League... A manager can only spend what the chairman allows him too, Lerner was the reason of their downfall. Read o Neil's Wikipedia page, if his villa stint is classed as a failure then I don't know what we are expecting? A miracle? Indeed, he can only spend what his Chairman allows, which was a lot, and the RoI was not what was expected because he failed to secure a Champions League spot. He lost his job as a result. I agree with FM that it what he achieved at Villa was about par; he certainly didn't exceed expectations in any way whatsoever. In terms of my Stoke's expectations, well I'd say that both Pulis and Hughes have exceeded them in their respective stints in some form or another. With our current predicament, we may well need a miracle. If you believe that MON can deliver that, then fair play. Many don't necessarily share that viewpoint.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 3, 2018 10:15:18 GMT
I agree ultimately Lerner as the owner at the time must take the blame but MOM went over and above the call of duty to assist him ! O'Neill was introduced as the Aston Villa manager at a press conference on 4 August 2006. At the press conference he stated "It's absolutely fantastic to be back and with a club such as this. This is a fantastic challenge. I am well aware of the history of this football club. Trying to restore it to its days of former glory seems a long way away – but why not try? It is nearly 25 years since they won the European Cup but that is the dream."[38] Villa had the year's longest unbeaten start of any Premier League side in 2006–07 (9 games), not losing a league game until 28 October. Villa suffered a mid-season slump but recovered late in the season, winning their three away games in April, to end the season how it began with a run of 9 unbeaten fixtures. For this O'Neill scooped the Barclays Manager of the Month for April.[39] Villa's final points tally was 50,[40] an improvement of 8 over the previous season and finished 11th, 5 places higher than the previous season.[41] In October 2007, Aston Villa owner Randy Lerner said that he would not stop O'Neill from leaving Villa if he was offered the vacant post of England manager.[42] O'Neill later dismissed the reports, calling them "unfair speculation".[43] Aston Villa just missed out on a UEFA Cup spot on the final day of the 2007–08 season and qualified for the Intertoto Cup by finishing 6th. They scored 71 goals, (their best ever tally in the Premier League and best tally since winning the title in 1981), gained 60 points which was Villa's highest points tally since 1996–97, and were the third highest goalscorers.[44] After 25 games of the 2008–09 season, having qualified for the UEFA Cup as joint winners of the Intertoto Cup, the club were third in the table on 51 points, 2 points above Chelsea on level games and 7 points above Arsenal in 5th place and on course for a place in the Champions League for the first time since 1983. O'Neill decided to prioritise Champions League qualification above all else, fielding a virtual reserve side for a UEFA Cup game against CSKA Moscow which was subsequently lost.[45] Following this, Villa failed to win any of the next 10 league games and improving form for Arsenal & Chelsea meant that Villa failed to reach the top 4. At the start of the 2009–10 season Villa failed to qualify for the group stage of the newly named Europa League, but continued their progress in the league with wins against Manchester United, Chelsea and Liverpool.[46] Arsenal defeated Villa 3–0 at Emirates Stadium, and drew at home.[46] Once again Villa finished 6th for the 3rd season running, and once again improved their points tally finishing with 64 points; their poor home form (they drew 8 times at home) denied them a chance to qualify for the UEFA Champions League. Aston Villa reached their first final under Martin O'Neill, and first final in 10 years on 28 February 2010 against Manchester United in the League Cup, but lost 2–1.[47] On 9 August 2010, O'Neill resigned as manager of Aston Villa with immediate effect.[48] On his departure O'Neill said "I have enjoyed my time at Aston Villa immensely. It's obviously a wrench to be leaving such a magnificent club."[49] O'Neill was reportedly unhappy about the funds available for transfers,[50] but his departure just five days before the start of the new season still came as a shock to the club and its players.[50] Lerner issued a statement two days later saying he and O'Neill "no longer shared a common view as to how to move forward, but the two remain good friends."[51] If that is failure I'm staggered, really I am. If we expect better we're screwed. Again, totally divorced from any context and conveniently explaining away any failures as someone else’s fault. And you accuse others of having agendas.
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Post by pyrus on Jan 3, 2018 10:17:32 GMT
I don’t have a great sense of confidence in Martin O’Neill and Roy Keane. O’Neill’s glory years at Wycombe, Leicester and Celtic were a long time ago. Villa was an exercise in spending big then flouncing out when the money dried up. Sunderland would seem to be the more relevant reference point and that didn’t end well. As for Roy Keane, as a manager he was not so impressive. As a coach, I have no idea. Ireland have been distinctly average under his coaching. I think his main tactic is calling expensive players ‘Ye feckin’ bollocks’.
Still, if it happens I can see the return of Super Jonny Walters.
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Post by stokie23 on Jan 3, 2018 10:20:11 GMT
The best of a bad situation! If we have to go British, and Rogers isn’t available, this is the next best shout ...
Has done well at Leicester and Villa, Sunderland was a poison chalice for anyone who went there (look at Moyes and Big Sam now doing the business)
Keane wouldn’t take any messing about, we would get some grit and desire back into the team... if it’s short term till the end of the season I would snap there hands off !
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Post by pyrus on Jan 3, 2018 10:26:20 GMT
The best of a bad situation! If we have to go British, and Rogers isn’t available, this is the next best shout ... Has done well at Leicester and Villa, Sunderland was a poison chalice for anyone who went there (look at Moyes and Big Sam now doing the business) Keane wouldn’t take any messing about, we would get some grit and desire back into the team... if it’s short term till the end of the season I would snap there hands off ! Do you think O’Neill and Keane would leave the Ireland national team job for a short-term deal at Stoke at until the end of the season?
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Post by maninasuitcase on Jan 3, 2018 10:32:16 GMT
There’s only one O’Neill I want here and it ain’t Martin Gary? Donaldson? Jack 😉 He can pop thru the Stargate and has a universe wide scouting network.
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Post by professorplump on Jan 3, 2018 10:34:02 GMT
I'm not sure that I would want them long term but a short term deal to the end of the season might work. By that time there might be more options available. At the very least they would hopefully bring some organisation to the team which we are sadly lacking.
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Post by staffsvilla on Jan 3, 2018 10:37:56 GMT
I agree ultimately Lerner as the owner at the time must take the blame but MOM went over and above the call of duty to assist him ! O'Neill was introduced as the Aston Villa manager at a press conference on 4 August 2006. At the press conference he stated "It's absolutely fantastic to be back and with a club such as this. This is a fantastic challenge. I am well aware of the history of this football club. Trying to restore it to its days of former glory seems a long way away – but why not try? It is nearly 25 years since they won the European Cup but that is the dream."[38] Villa had the year's longest unbeaten start of any Premier League side in 2006–07 (9 games), not losing a league game until 28 October. Villa suffered a mid-season slump but recovered late in the season, winning their three away games in April, to end the season how it began with a run of 9 unbeaten fixtures. For this O'Neill scooped the Barclays Manager of the Month for April.[39] Villa's final points tally was 50,[40] an improvement of 8 over the previous season and finished 11th, 5 places higher than the previous season.[41] In October 2007, Aston Villa owner Randy Lerner said that he would not stop O'Neill from leaving Villa if he was offered the vacant post of England manager.[42] O'Neill later dismissed the reports, calling them "unfair speculation".[43] Aston Villa just missed out on a UEFA Cup spot on the final day of the 2007–08 season and qualified for the Intertoto Cup by finishing 6th. They scored 71 goals, (their best ever tally in the Premier League and best tally since winning the title in 1981), gained 60 points which was Villa's highest points tally since 1996–97, and were the third highest goalscorers.[44] After 25 games of the 2008–09 season, having qualified for the UEFA Cup as joint winners of the Intertoto Cup, the club were third in the table on 51 points, 2 points above Chelsea on level games and 7 points above Arsenal in 5th place and on course for a place in the Champions League for the first time since 1983. O'Neill decided to prioritise Champions League qualification above all else, fielding a virtual reserve side for a UEFA Cup game against CSKA Moscow which was subsequently lost.[45] Following this, Villa failed to win any of the next 10 league games and improving form for Arsenal & Chelsea meant that Villa failed to reach the top 4. At the start of the 2009–10 season Villa failed to qualify for the group stage of the newly named Europa League, but continued their progress in the league with wins against Manchester United, Chelsea and Liverpool.[46] Arsenal defeated Villa 3–0 at Emirates Stadium, and drew at home.[46] Once again Villa finished 6th for the 3rd season running, and once again improved their points tally finishing with 64 points; their poor home form (they drew 8 times at home) denied them a chance to qualify for the UEFA Champions League. Aston Villa reached their first final under Martin O'Neill, and first final in 10 years on 28 February 2010 against Manchester United in the League Cup, but lost 2–1.[47] On 9 August 2010, O'Neill resigned as manager of Aston Villa with immediate effect.[48] On his departure O'Neill said "I have enjoyed my time at Aston Villa immensely. It's obviously a wrench to be leaving such a magnificent club."[49] O'Neill was reportedly unhappy about the funds available for transfers,[50] but his departure just five days before the start of the new season still came as a shock to the club and its players.[50] Lerner issued a statement two days later saying he and O'Neill "no longer shared a common view as to how to move forward, but the two remain good friends."[51] If that is failure I'm staggered, really I am. If we expect better we're screwed. Who wrote that MON ? What that fails to mention before the summer he left he was told in that January before anymore spending he had to trim the squad as it was top heavy in numbers and wages and quite a few were underperforming or not even playing and Lerner, quite rightly in my opinion said basically sell to buy, he was told this again in may at the end of the season, on both occasions MON ignored him then waited until the last few days before the season started in august thinking he'd got Lerner over a barrel, Lerner said no and the rest is history. He simply thought he was bigger than the club - wrong ! Tactically he was very limited and with the money he was given to spend massively under achieved, yes we had a couple of (losing) Wembley trips and regularly finished top 6, but it could and should have been so much better, what that article fails to mention is 1, that unbeaten run was mainly draws and we finished that season with as many draws as wins 2, he surrendered the Europa tie v CSKA in favour of trying to get top 4, first game after CSKA was you and we blew a 2-0 lead to draw and then fell apart 3, in that Europa League group stage he rested THE ENTIRE first team for the trip to Hamburg in the week before Christmas it was just a pity he failed to let us know before we'd sold out our 3,500 allocation,in fact the news came out while a lot of us were on our way over there ! So not abject failure but some success soured by his arrogance and disregard for us the fans,oh and because of his fear of failure we became very boring to watch at home throughout his time !
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Post by estp1863 on Jan 3, 2018 10:40:03 GMT
He left because of Lerner and look what Lerner did from then on? If he couldn't sustain it he shouldn't have done it? Mate he left because he thought he could dictate to Lerner and when he got told no he threw his toys and Fucked off just days before the season started Sounds a bit like pulis & our board parting with our board saying we are 'going in a new direction' aka downwards on the cheap, we're also doing a bit of assets stripping atm. Striking resemblance
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Post by dirtygary69 on Jan 3, 2018 10:41:59 GMT
This appointment would kill my insides. Please don't be so ridiculous.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 3, 2018 10:42:00 GMT
Keane’s Sunderland team showed the ‘grit and desire’ to lose 29 of his 53 Premier League games in charge.
His Ipswich team showed the ‘grit and desire’ to finish 15th in his one full season there before getting him sacked halfway through the next one.
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Post by realstokebloke on Jan 3, 2018 10:42:27 GMT
I can see a scenario where some people think these two could kick some ass and organise the defence.
(Even that is a 'mabye'.)
And, even then, we wouldn't score a goal this side of a blue moon to try and correct that GD.
Plus we'd have to hope their respective agents have taken leave of their senses and that they would sign a 6 month deal, so we could get rid in the summer and start again.
Personally, the thought of those two sends a shiver down my spine and I wouldn't touch them with a pole barge - on the basis it's obviously longer than the poles themselves.
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