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Post by thehartshillbadger on Aug 19, 2020 18:42:54 GMT
Drain the Swamp! Drain the Swamp! Pray tell me why our right ring are so silent on an issue they claim is their own territory?🙃 Maybe he’s been furloughed😏
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Aug 20, 2020 7:59:34 GMT
I've said it before and I'll say it again.
MPs should be paid more. Let's say £150k a year, almost double what they're on now, a very nice salary. Then it should be illegal for them to receive remuneration (or 'gifts', expenses paid trips, donations to their favourite charities etc) from any external sources.
All lobbying meetings/meals/cosy chats/whatever should be declared, preferably minuted and publicly available. In other words, formalised and made transparent.
Political donations should be illegal. Each major political party (which gains say more than 5% of the electorate at a general election) receives the same amount of taxpayers' money to fund future election campaigns.
If you want to restore some faith in our elected representatives they should be prepared to be scrutinised more closely and their activities more openly recorded. If that means paying them more to reduce sleaze and corruption, I can live with that.
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Post by wagsastokie on Aug 20, 2020 8:21:30 GMT
I've said it before and I'll say it again. MPs should be paid more. Let's say £150k a year, almost double what they're on now, a very nice salary. Then it should be illegal for them to receive remuneration (or 'gifts', expenses paid trips, donations to their favourite charities etc) from any external sources. All lobbying meetings/meals/cosy chats/whatever should be declared, preferably minuted and publicly available. In other words, formalised and made transparent. Political donations should be illegal. Each major political party (which gains say more than 5% of the electorate at a general election) receives the same amount of taxpayers' money to fund future election campaigns. If you want to restore some faith in our elected representatives they should be prepared to be scrutinised more closely and their activities more openly recorded. If that means paying them more to reduce sleaze and corruption, I can live with that. Totally agree Especially with the funding of political parties The sooner the Conservative and Labour Party can not rely on big businesses and Union money the better Then they might start developing policies without favour
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Post by elystokie on Aug 20, 2020 8:22:36 GMT
I've said it before and I'll say it again. MPs should be paid more. Let's say £150k a year, almost double what they're on now, a very nice salary. Then it should be illegal for them to receive remuneration (or 'gifts', expenses paid trips, donations to their favourite charities etc) from any external sources. All lobbying meetings/meals/cosy chats/whatever should be declared, preferably minuted and publicly available. In other words, formalised and made transparent. Political donations should be illegal. Each major political party (which gains say more than 5% of the electorate at a general election) receives the same amount of taxpayers' money to fund future election campaigns. If you want to restore some faith in our elected representatives they should be prepared to be scrutinised more closely and their activities more openly recorded. If that means paying them more to reduce sleaze and corruption, I can live with that. Something has to be done, this blatant corruption is getting beyond a joke now. I've always said MPs aren't paid enough, too many of them just see it as a stepping stone to a plum job, I'm sure there's Head Teachers (amongst many other occupations) on similar salaries.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Aug 20, 2020 8:23:18 GMT
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Post by maxplonk on Aug 20, 2020 10:46:49 GMT
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Aug 20, 2020 22:09:07 GMT
I've said it before and I'll say it again. MPs should be paid more. Let's say £150k a year, almost double what they're on now, a very nice salary. Then it should be illegal for them to receive remuneration (or 'gifts', expenses paid trips, donations to their favourite charities etc) from any external sources. All lobbying meetings/meals/cosy chats/whatever should be declared, preferably minuted and publicly available. In other words, formalised and made transparent. Political donations should be illegal. Each major political party (which gains say more than 5% of the electorate at a general election) receives the same amount of taxpayers' money to fund future election campaigns. If you want to restore some faith in our elected representatives they should be prepared to be scrutinised more closely and their activities more openly recorded. If that means paying them more to reduce sleaze and corruption, I can live with that. Totally agree Especially with the funding of political parties The sooner the Conservative and Labour Party can not rely on big businesses and Union money the better Then they might start developing policies without favour You had an option to vote for a man that couldn't be bought. You chose not to.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Aug 21, 2020 12:00:16 GMT
Gosh, even the Torygraph is taking the piss out of the Bluffer now...
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Post by RedandWhite90 on Aug 21, 2020 12:18:51 GMT
Excellent news. A viable and legitimate alternative now for the first time in at least 5 years possibly 10. Labour have to win from the centre.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Aug 21, 2020 12:20:36 GMT
Excellent news. A viable and legitimate alternative now for the first time in at least 5 years possibly 10. Labour have to win from the centre. Its not really an alternative is it though mate. Its a replication. The same snouts in the trough. The same winners, the same losers.
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Post by wagsastokie on Aug 21, 2020 12:53:32 GMT
Totally agree Especially with the funding of political parties The sooner the Conservative and Labour Party can not rely on big businesses and Union money the better Then they might start developing policies without favour You had an option to vote for a man that couldn't be bought. You chose not to. Who was that You can't surely mean unite mouthpiece jezza
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Aug 21, 2020 13:11:56 GMT
Excellent news. A viable and legitimate alternative now for the first time in at least 5 years possibly 10. Labour have to win from the centre. I agree. Politically, England has moved a long way to the right in recent decades, it's now a right wing country, simple as that. You have to be pragmatic about that. If you want to be governed by a party which will use the proceeds of the capitalist society in which we live for the benefit of more of the ordinary people then the only way that is going to happen is by having a Labour party which is electable by England. And while I agree that's only some way better than the clusterfuck government we're currently lumbered with, it's still better.
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Post by RedandWhite90 on Aug 21, 2020 13:15:08 GMT
Excellent news. A viable and legitimate alternative now for the first time in at least 5 years possibly 10. Labour have to win from the centre. Its not really an alternative is it though mate. Its a replication. The same snouts in the trough. The same winners, the same losers. Well that's definitely one way of looking at it. Leader A - An abysmal journalist sacked for lying, a compulsive liar from everything from personal to family life, AWOL at a time when 10s of thousands of people have died, history of racist slurs, looks to suppress reports and truth at every turn and the list goes on. Leader B - Knighted, LLB, 6 honorary degrees, achieved the highest position in his profession at the CPS, will be proved correct on Brexit and saves Donkeys. It's some trough.
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Post by RedandWhite90 on Aug 21, 2020 13:18:00 GMT
Excellent news. A viable and legitimate alternative now for the first time in at least 5 years possibly 10. Labour have to win from the centre. I agree. Politically, England has moved a long way to the right in recent decades, it's now a right wing country, simple as that. You have to be pragmatic about that. If you want to be governed by a party which will use the proceeds of the capitalist society in which we live for the benefit of more of the ordinary people then the only way that is going to happen is by having a Labour party which is electable by England. And while I agree that's only some way better than the clusterfuck government we're currently lumbered with, it's still better. I voted for the last Leader with the sole intention of preventing this current and horrendous government coming to power. It didn't work. Howwver, I refused to cut off my own nose to spite my face. It is time for the socialist wing of the Labour Party to do the same.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Aug 21, 2020 13:29:27 GMT
Its not really an alternative is it though mate. Its a replication. The same snouts in the trough. The same winners, the same losers. Well that's definitely one way of looking at it. Leader A - An abysmal journalist sacked for lying, a compulsive liar from everything from personal to family life, AWOL at a time when 10s of thousands of people have died, history of racist slurs, looks to suppress reports and truth at every turn and the list goes on. Leader B - Knighted, LLB, 6 honorary degrees, achieved the highest position in his profession at the CPS, will be proved correct on Brexit and saves Donkeys. It's some trough. Leader b is certainly not as flawed and abysmal a human being as Leader a but the destination is the same. The same rigged economics, the same fallacious Foreign Policy, no levelling up post austerity, no hope for the poor, no imagination for those left behind, no addressing of our misery bringing Labour markets. All in all a pretty grim future. As for Starmer, this poltroon can't even bring himself to call for the Education Secrataries head. There is nothing in him for those who suffered most from austerity.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Aug 21, 2020 13:35:07 GMT
Well that's definitely one way of looking at it. Leader A - An abysmal journalist sacked for lying, a compulsive liar from everything from personal to family life, AWOL at a time when 10s of thousands of people have died, history of racist slurs, looks to suppress reports and truth at every turn and the list goes on. Leader B - Knighted, LLB, 6 honorary degrees, achieved the highest position in his profession at the CPS, will be proved correct on Brexit and saves Donkeys. It's some trough. Leader b is certainly not as flawed and abysmal a human being as Leader a but the destination is the same. The same rigged economics, the same fallacious Foreign Policy, no levelling up post austerity, no hope for the poor, no imagination for those left behind, no addressing of our misery bringing Labour markets. All in all a pretty grim future. As for Starmer, this poltroon can't even bring himself to call for the Education Secrataries head. There is nothing in him for those who suffered most from austerity. My argument would be that the destination isn't necessarily the same. Not the place you'd want to end up, but better than the place the other lot would take us. I get why those on the Left wouldn't necessarily go for Starmer if they see him in the Blair mould. However, I'd rather have 'better' than 'not at all' and just more of the current lot of incompetents.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Aug 21, 2020 13:40:48 GMT
Leader b is certainly not as flawed and abysmal a human being as Leader a but the destination is the same. The same rigged economics, the same fallacious Foreign Policy, no levelling up post austerity, no hope for the poor, no imagination for those left behind, no addressing of our misery bringing Labour markets. All in all a pretty grim future. As for Starmer, this poltroon can't even bring himself to call for the Education Secrataries head. There is nothing in him for those who suffered most from austerity. My argument would be that the destination isn't necessarily the same. Not the place you'd want to end up, but better than the place the other lot would take us. I get why those on the Left wouldn't necessarily go for Starmer if they see him in the Blair mould. However, I'd rather have 'better' than 'not at all' and just more of the current lot of incompetents. It would certainly be hard for a Starmer Government to be as incompetent as this one, in fact, that would be virtually impossible but I expect some of the real evils of the past ten years to be on his first page. Instead its internal Politics and the courting of big business and Murdoch. If you work all week, have to claim benefits because of low pay and high rents and rely on food banks to see you through, any changing of the guard in four years will be just window dressing in terms of your life improving.
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Post by RedandWhite90 on Aug 21, 2020 13:43:34 GMT
Well that's definitely one way of looking at it. Leader A - An abysmal journalist sacked for lying, a compulsive liar from everything from personal to family life, AWOL at a time when 10s of thousands of people have died, history of racist slurs, looks to suppress reports and truth at every turn and the list goes on. Leader B - Knighted, LLB, 6 honorary degrees, achieved the highest position in his profession at the CPS, will be proved correct on Brexit and saves Donkeys. It's some trough. Leader b is certainly not as flawed and abysmal a human being as Leader a but the destination is the same. The same rigged economics, the same fallacious Foreign Policy, no levelling up post austerity, no hope for the poor, no imagination for those left behind, no addressing of our misery bringing Labour markets. All in all a pretty grim future. As for Starmer, this poltroon can't even bring himself to call for the Education Secrataries head. There is nothing in him for those who suffered most from austerity. I'm not sure how you can quite go in on Starmer when he has taken over the reigns a matter of months into a 5 year term? You're not seriously suggesting that he should be in campaign mode when working against an 80 seat majority. I can't even blame him for not going around wailing about people losing their jobs from a government in which you are effectively unsackable. How does Boris Johnson remove someone for their abject failure? Give it time and hold your nose if you have to but stop pining for the last leader and his ideologies, he failed twice.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Aug 21, 2020 14:06:54 GMT
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Post by sheikhmomo on Aug 21, 2020 14:17:49 GMT
Leader b is certainly not as flawed and abysmal a human being as Leader a but the destination is the same. The same rigged economics, the same fallacious Foreign Policy, no levelling up post austerity, no hope for the poor, no imagination for those left behind, no addressing of our misery bringing Labour markets. All in all a pretty grim future. As for Starmer, this poltroon can't even bring himself to call for the Education Secrataries head. There is nothing in him for those who suffered most from austerity. I'm not sure how you can quite go in on Starmer when he has taken over the reigns a matter of months into a 5 year term? You're not seriously suggesting that he should be in campaign mode when working against an 80 seat majority. I can't even blame him for not going around wailing about people losing their jobs from a government in which you are effectively unsackable. How does Boris Johnson remove someone for their abject failure? Give it time and hold your nose if you have to but stop pining for the last leader and his ideologies, he failed twice. The only thing I'm pining for is a choice. A choice over and above who is less of a twat. Not too much to ask is it?
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Post by mattyd2 on Aug 21, 2020 14:19:56 GMT
I'm not sure how you can quite go in on Starmer when he has taken over the reigns a matter of months into a 5 year term? You're not seriously suggesting that he should be in campaign mode when working against an 80 seat majority. I can't even blame him for not going around wailing about people losing their jobs from a government in which you are effectively unsackable. How does Boris Johnson remove someone for their abject failure? Give it time and hold your nose if you have to but stop pining for the last leader and his ideologies, he failed twice. The only thing I'm pining for is a choice. A choice over and above who is less of a twat. Not too much to ask is it? Change is coming... BIG ISSUE... Do you have any spare change sir.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Aug 21, 2020 14:29:14 GMT
The only thing I'm pining for is a choice. A choice over and above who is less of a twat. Not too much to ask is it? Change is coming... BIG ISSUE... Do you have any spare change sir. Yeah let's keep cutting the numbers and pay of the Police then pretend you care about them, hey? Its clearly what YOU want.
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Post by RedandWhite90 on Aug 21, 2020 14:32:11 GMT
I'm not sure how you can quite go in on Starmer when he has taken over the reigns a matter of months into a 5 year term? You're not seriously suggesting that he should be in campaign mode when working against an 80 seat majority. I can't even blame him for not going around wailing about people losing their jobs from a government in which you are effectively unsackable. How does Boris Johnson remove someone for their abject failure? Give it time and hold your nose if you have to but stop pining for the last leader and his ideologies, he failed twice. The only thing I'm pining for is a choice. A choice over and above who is less of a twat. Not too much to ask is it? I would argue you have that choice.
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Post by mattyd2 on Aug 21, 2020 14:33:22 GMT
Change is coming... BIG ISSUE... Do you have any spare change sir. Yeah let's keep cutting the numbers and pay of the Police then pretend you care about them, hey? Its clearly what YOU want. WHAT THE FUCK HAS THAT GOT TO DO WITH POLICE NUMBERS. WHAT NEXT...IS MY POST RACIST, HOMOPHOBIC, SEXIST...ONLY YOU CAN DECIDE. My memory is not what it was Sheikhy Lad. Please remind me where I said cut the police. Pretty sure I said just the opposite. But I can't remember, so please tell me where I said it.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Aug 21, 2020 14:40:53 GMT
Yeah let's keep cutting the numbers and pay of the Police then pretend you care about them, hey? Its clearly what YOU want. WHAT THE FUCK HAS THAT GOT TO DO WITH POLICE NUMBERS. WHAT NEXT...IS MY POST RACIST, HOMOPHOBIC, SEXIST...ONLY YOU CAN DECIDE. My memory is not what it was Sheikhy Lad. Please remind me where I said cut the police. Pretty sure I said just the opposite. But I can't remember, so please tell me where I said it. You were quite insistent about where you loyalties lay in the last election and the one before I think. You voted anti Police.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Aug 21, 2020 14:41:12 GMT
The only thing I'm pining for is a choice. A choice over and above who is less of a twat. Not too much to ask is it? I would argue you have that choice. I don't feel I have.
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Post by RedandWhite90 on Aug 21, 2020 14:43:59 GMT
I would argue you have that choice. I don't feel I have. Be an interesting time for you when it comes to voting again. You'll find yourself in the same position of many voters this time round and it comes down to if you want to cut your nose off I suppose.
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Post by mattyd2 on Aug 21, 2020 14:46:17 GMT
WHAT THE FUCK HAS THAT GOT TO DO WITH POLICE NUMBERS. WHAT NEXT...IS MY POST RACIST, HOMOPHOBIC, SEXIST...ONLY YOU CAN DECIDE. My memory is not what it was Sheikhy Lad. Please remind me where I said cut the police. Pretty sure I said just the opposite. But I can't remember, so please tell me where I said it. You were quite insistent about where you loyalties lay in the last election and the one before I think. You voted anti Police. No...I definitely voted Tory. Or are you saying all Tories are anti police. Perhaps you could show some evidence.
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Post by vokeswagen on Aug 21, 2020 14:55:02 GMT
I agree. Politically, England has moved a long way to the right in recent decades, it's now a right wing country, simple as that. You have to be pragmatic about that. If you want to be governed by a party which will use the proceeds of the capitalist society in which we live for the benefit of more of the ordinary people then the only way that is going to happen is by having a Labour party which is electable by England. And while I agree that's only some way better than the clusterfuck government we're currently lumbered with, it's still better. I voted for the last Leader with the sole intention of preventing this current and horrendous government coming to power. It didn't work. Howwver, I refused to cut off my own nose to spite my face. It is time for the socialist wing of the Labour Party to do the same. The one thing I would say is that lots of people in the centre wing of the party weren't so fair and pragmatic as you. Plenty of Corbyn's own MPs and party officials actively worked against him, some even going so far as to try to lose the 2017 GE. So whilst it's absolutely fair for you to make that plea to people on the left of the party, I think it would be unwise for Starmer, having actively derailed so much himself last autumn, to do anything but keep his trap shut about unity. He has no moral high ground in this regard and it's not a good look for a former troublemaker - as Corbyn himself learned to his cost. All this said, I wish Starmer well, think he's doing ok, and don't have as cynical a view of him as sheikhy
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Post by vokeswagen on Aug 21, 2020 14:58:59 GMT
You were quite insistent about where you loyalties lay in the last election and the one before I think. You voted anti Police. No...I definitely voted Tory. Or are you saying all Tories are anti police. Perhaps you could show some evidence. You voted for a party that actively cut police numbers mate. Knowing this fact, you then voted for them again. And again. And again. It's not that hard to get your head round this surely?
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